Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Maxy Barnard]

Care to give a specific example? Because it sounds like you're making a blanket generalization for all veterans.


Anyway, as an aside, I saw this and thought I'd share with everyone.

Oh dude seeing Ryotsu and Jaguar there made me smile. Cute

 

[Rain Spectre]

To test this a bit, what makes the writing of, say, The Promised Neverland better than Death Note? My Hero Academia over Naruto? Dr. Stone over Neuro? And how do we account for (in this world of purely iterative gain) for work like Chainsaw Man, which builds more off of western and european comics than it does Jump, and even in Japan feels more like an indie comic in how it experiments with the form?

That's up to you decide. I'm not judging anything, just saying that the later works are more refined. As for Chainsaw Man, I think that's a separate debate unto itself.

 

[Maxy Barnard]

Kishimoto's writing on Samurai 8 feels very old-timey in its pacing. Ryuuhei Tamura tried to replicate the same structure of Beelzebub with Hungry Marie in spite of it being much harder work with in an environment where readers have shorter attention spans. Fujimaki tried doing a hit on the level of Kuroko with Robot even though Haikyuu had firmly reintroduced "spirit" (don't ask, it's complicated) as vital to sports manga. List goes on.

What structure is being replicated between those two titles? What makes Samurai 8 old-timey? Contrast to older titles. Quantify spirit. You gotta make your points stick if you want people to buy in

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 21, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 21, 2019 ---

That's up to you decide. I'm not judging anything, just saying that the later works are more refined. As for Chainsaw Man, I think that's a separate debate unto itself.

That’s for me to decide? Then you have nothing here. You’re just blathering if you don’t have anything below surface claims

 

[Halloween]

Kishimoto's writing on Samurai 8 feels very old-timey in its pacing. Ryuuhei Tamura tried to replicate the same structure of Beelzebub with Hungry Marie in spite of it being much harder work with in an environment where readers have shorter attention spans. Fujimaki tried doing a hit on the level of Kuroko with Robot even though Haikyuu had firmly reintroduced "spirit" (don't ask, it's complicated) as vital to sports manga. List goes on.

I can cite plenty of veterans where that wasn't the case. Slam Dunk to Vagabond. YYH to HxH. Takeshi to Toriko. Death Note to Bakuman. Eyeshield 21 to Dr. Stone. Fairy Tail to Eden's Zero (probably gonna catch some flack with this one, but I do feel there's an overall improvement, while he still does showcase fanservice a lot) etc, etc.

 

[Mankichi Togawa]

Ok. I'm putting Kurumada as an example. Each one can read this as you want:

-Was succesful with Ring ni Kakero
-Mantained the shonen superfighting structure with Fuma no Kojiro, was succesful again
-Ended prematurely Fuma no Kojiro because he was ready to create his masterpiece aka Otoko Zaka
-Discarded the structure he did with Ring ni Kakero and Fuma no Kojiro, went to the Otoko Ippiki Gaki Daisho structure
-That structure was already obsolete (Kurumada killed it with Ring ni Kakero). Otoko Zaka gets axed
-Kurumada goes back to the Ring ni Kakero/Fuma no Kojiro structure with Saint Seiya
-Big success

 

[Rain Spectre]

Ok. I'm putting Kurumada as an example. Each one can read this as you want:

-Was succesful with Ring ni Kakero
-Mantained the shonen superfighting structure with Fuma no Kojiro, was succesful again
-Ended prematurely Fuma no Kojiro because he was ready to create his masterpiece aka Otoko Zaka
-Discarded the structure he did with Ring ni Kakero and Fuma no Kojiro, went to the Otoko Ippiki Gaki Daisho structure
-That structure was already obsolete (Kurumada killed it with Ring ni Kakero). Otoko Zaka gets axed
-Kurumada goes back to the Ring ni Kakero/Fuma no Kojiro structure with Saint Seiya
-Big success

Didn't Ring ni Kakero only last three years or so? I think things didn't change much by the time he went to Fuma no Kojiro.

Also, Ring ni Kakero is held up as the "Battle manga Bible" and basically created the structure that the early Golden Age used. So I imagine Kuramada didn't have to change much.

I can cite plenty of veterans where that wasn't the case. Slam Dunk to Vagabond. YYH to HxH. Takeshi to Toriko. Death Note to Bakuman. Eyeshield 21 to Dr. Stone. Fairy Tail to Eden's Zero (probably gonna catch some flack with this one, but I do feel there's an overall improvement, while he still does showcase fanservice a lot) etc, etc.

I mean, in those cases the second series is almost always radically different. The exception is Fairy Tail to Eden's Zero, but there, Mashima had basically built a brand for himself, and the series started just 11 months after the former ended, so he never really left the building.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 21, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 21, 2019 ---

That’s for me to decide? Then you have nothing here. You’re just blathering if you don’t have anything below surface claims

I mean, it's more that I don't want to go into long-winded debates about things I really don't want to debate about, so yeah >>

 

[Halloween]

I mean, in those cases the second series is almost always radically different. The exception is Fairy Tail to Eden's Zero, but there, Mashima had basically built a brand for himself, and the series started just 11 months after the former ended, so he never really left the building.

So your criteria only applies to veterans that create new series that are similar to their previous series?

I mean, even if we go that route, (which is kinda moving the goalposts) your example about Samurai 8 doesn't even apply, really. It's pretty fucking different to Naruto, and only similar in the fact that they're both action series. Although, Samurai 8 will have a higher focus on adventure.

I'll give you the RxL example, but that was primarily because Golf is terrible subject matter for a manga. Oda himself would bomb a Golf series, more than likely. There's extenuating circumstances. It's not as simple as veterans making similar mistakes. Hungry Marie was just an instance of the mangaka not knowing what he wanted to do, and probably thought his name alone would let the series survive long enough until he figured it out.

 

[Halloween]

Before anyone gets offended, I personally enjoyed RxL a lot, but you gotta admit that Golf isn't exactly an exciting sport. Maybe if he Prince of Tennis'd it, it might have been more exciting for readers.

 

[Jovan]

Oh no, not another Samurai 8 discussion again. Like I am not a fan of this manga, but this is tiring as hell.

Before anyone gets offended, I personally enjoyed RxL a lot, but you gotta admit that Golf isn't exactly an exciting sport. Maybe if he Prince of Tennis'd it, it might have been more exciting for readers.

Same! I have read 12 chapters so far and I am really enjoying it.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Anyway, confronting me is getting boring. So I wanna ask the question again, do you guys think Jump's "identity" has been lost, or no?

 

[MangAniMY]

lol

 

[Scruffy8642]

Dr.Stone’s art looks pretty

Pretty but stills galore. Not really sure what to expect since the previous PV looked much more impressive from memory.

Modern Jump works on Survival of the Fittest, is what I'm saying.

Why are you pretending Jump hasn’t been like this for most of its existence?

Before anyone gets offended, I personally enjoyed RxL a lot, but you gotta admit that Golf isn't exactly an exciting sport. Maybe if he Prince of Tennis'd it, it might have been more exciting for readers.

He did Prince of Tennis it though? And the golf was actually the interesting part of the series. It was the poorly written characters and everything else that let the series down.

 

[Mankichi Togawa]

Just thinking in how Play Ball is the only 00s Jump anime (and possibly the only anime in this century) with no anime subs, and it makes me sad.

Manga isn't going to be scanlated never ever, but anime seems isn't going to be subbed never ever. Sad to see how Play Ball is going to stay obscure despite being the main Jump spokon of 70s.

 

[Kouzai]

Chainsawman is good again this week. If Chainsawman somehow becomes successful you guys think it can go above 200+ chapters? for me it might go around 150 to 200 chapters.

 

[Halloween]

So I wanna ask the question again, do you guys think Jump's "identity" has been lost, or no?

What identity? It's always been the magazine which featured the most popular manga series in the industry. That identity still remains intact.

However, because of this, I think the magazine wanted to play it safe previously, whereas now they're taking more risks. They're also a bit more transparent with wanting to copy the major successes from other magazines.

For instance, Fairy Tail and Nanatsu no Taizai >>> Black Clover. Attack on Titan >>> The Promised Neverland. I'm surprised Jump hasn't tried a Beastars equivalent yet, honestly.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 21, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 21, 2019 ---

He did Prince of Tennis it though? And the golf was actually the interesting part of the series. It was the poorly written characters and everything else that let the series down.

To the PoT point, not to the same extent, or rather, more over the top. And I actually agree with your Golf point personally, I just don't think it's a sport that many would considering exciting. At least, in manga form. I actually enjoyed some of the characters, and the parachuting out of a helicopter to that tournament is honestly still one of my favorite moments in a manga, lol.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Maybe I should stop trying to submit my loaded opinions on this thread. It's clear that I can't be bothered to properly explain myself here.

 

[Halloween]

If that's the case, feel free to send in a comment and debate me there. Few people there actually doubt me, so evidently most think I'm right.

Your Twitter isn't as reputable as this site is. The people you engage on there also wouldn't be as knowledgeable as the regulars on this website.

Your boast means very little.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 21, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 21, 2019 ---

Maybe I should stop trying to submit my loaded opinions on this thread. It's clear that I can't be bothered to properly explain myself here.

You can't be bothered because we're knowledgeable enough to counter your arguments.

 

[LuckyJim]

Maybe I should stop trying to submit my loaded opinions on this thread. It's clear that I can't be bothered to properly explain myself here.

I mean, if you're not going to bother to properly argue your points, then you really shouldn't try to present an arguement.

 

[Otaku Mole]

Can I ask you guys something, as a serious question - not to provoke anything. Why so you like Weekly Shounen Jump so much? Is it because of the popularity of the bigger series in it? Or do you see a real quality advantage compared to other similar magazines? This thread is getting a lot more attention than Sunday etc and I truly wonder if it's grounded in some kind of historical habitual popularity from DB, OP etc or if you really think "This magazine deserves my attention more than the others" or is it maybe just a question of comfortable availabity?

 

[westabyss]

One Piece has been good again lately which made me realize that if Oda really tries that no other author in Jump besides Togashi can really deliver such a satisfying end product as him. Its feels like a full course meal against a dish.