Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[El Jacco]

The success Gintama has had for a "comedy" is incredible.

And it is much more impressive when you think that Gintama is one of the few series of Jump that has managed to reach the mark of the 700 chapters. (Of course, with some help of Giga and his own app)

 

[WyldViolet]

It's always funny when you see people here trying to state what the japanese public wants or if a old series may or not appeal to them now, specially when it's about a big loved manga franchise that still selling over 100k per volume despite having 40 years of serialization and "no appeal".

I would love to watch a full remake of Kinnikuman adapting all the main mangas like Jojo, i think it would bring a lot of new people here (west) into the franchise too.

tbf he was arguing for what western audiences want, but I still find it to be an argument from projection.
Westerners like lots of weird stuff, companies just don't trust the audiences enough to license enough of them even though many have done well with the right promotion and rollout.

 

[Tamil]

"Modern audience" is going to start becoming a meme here at this rate lol

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

tbf he was arguing for what western audiences want, but I still find it to be an argument from projection.
Westerners like lots of weird stuff, companies just don't trust the audiences enough to license enough of them even though many have done well with the right promotion and rollout.

It's like you said about Jojo, until David Production started remaking the franchise it was totally a "niche" and cult thing here even with manga fans, now it's almost a "normie" franchise (no offense).

I think that if Kinnikuman gets the same treatment, specially with how big streaming is today, it could reach many people and make new fans here.

 

[WyldViolet]

It's like you said about Jojo, until David Production started remaking the franchise it was totally a "niche" and cult thing here even with manga fans, now it's almost a "normie" franchise (no offense).

I think that if Kinnikuman gets the same treatment, specially with how big streaming is today, it could reach many people and make new fans here.

Exactly.
It's all advertising. JoJo is even the perfect example of this. In the past when Viz tried to bring over part 3 they tried to advertise as if it was any other battle shonen completely ignoring the unique tone that JoJo has. Now it's brought over and its zaniness is properly advertised (being on Toonami helps in the fact that it shows there is even a market in the west for this even among those who still watch traditional television let alone the series success on streaming platforms) and now its a totally mainstream series.
If you present a series as something it's not then it's probably not going to do well.

 

[Tamil]

It's like you said about Jojo, until David Production started remaking the franchise it was totally a "niche" and cult thing here even with manga fans, now it's almost a "normie" franchise (no offense).

I think that if Kinnikuman gets the same treatment, specially with how big streaming is today, it could reach many people and make new fans here.

I think the west will enjoy it, it's even more bizarre/wacky than JJBA and can get very violent. I think the violence & over the top nature of JJBA along with its memes is what contributed to make it popular here in the west. Kinnikuman has that potential.

 

[WyldViolet]

I think the west will enjoy it, it's even more bizarre/wacky than JJBA and can get very violent. I think the violence & over the top nature of JJBA along with its memes is what contributed to make it popular here in the west. Kinnikuman has that potential.

Yep.
Westerners love over the top stuff. It's just that most of what's marketed to us is the bland typical battle shonen.
If you don't give audiences a chance or a choice then they'll never know these things exist.

 

[Nemesis]

And it is much more impressive when you think that Gintama is one of the few series of Jump that has managed to reach the mark of the 700 chapters. (Of course, with some help of Giga and his own app)

Yeah, from what I remember only Bleach, Naruto, One Piece and Kochikame did that.

 

[Tamil]

Wano arc hype . This adaptation is going to be amazing.

 

[Nemesis]

Wano arc hype . This adaptation is going to be amazing.

All the Toei productions with those filters are really good. Glad they began to do that on the last years. And OP with Nagamine as the series director will do wonders for the series, he's a pretty good director.

Still, not watching OP as I prefer it much more in manga format. Never liked the anime as much even in the beginning.

 

[iceemperor]

BTW do we have TV ratings for the Nisei anime?

The first season ranged from 3.7% to 6.8%. Shaman King, which directly followed had around 2-3% higher ratings though Bomberman Jetters, which replaced Shaman King in Fall 2002 had similar ratings. I wouldn't say they were bad but they weren't that great compared to other TV Tokyo shows. The two sequels shifted to late night TV anime.

 

[Rain Spectre]

I don't doubt Kinnikuman has devote fans, but I suspect many of those are people from the 80s when it was the first real battle manga. I'd imagine it be much harder to get people raised on tons of more modern series into it, the series has aged to much. At least JoJo is so hyper-stylistic that no one really is bothered by it, Kinnikuman doesn't really have that IMO.

 

[WyldViolet]

I don't doubt Kinnikuman has devote fans, but I suspect many of those are people from the 80s when it was the first real battle manga. I'd imagine it be much harder to get people raised on tons of more modern series into it, the series has aged to much. At least JoJo is so hyper-stylistic that no one really is bothered by it, Kinnikuman doesn't really have that IMO.

Why can't a new adaptation be done in a hyper stylistic manner? Plenty of adaptations have added stylistic flair when adapted.
Plus I wouldn't say that Kinnikuman isn't very stylized. Again, you're arguing from ignorance. You have to quit judging entire series by quick skimthroughs.

 

[101nemesis]

The success Gintama has had for a "comedy" is incredible.

I'd even go a step further and say that Gintama's success as a comedy is equal to Naruto's success as a battle manga.

 

[Rain Spectre]

I'd even go a step further and say that Gintama's success as a comedy is equal to Naruto's success as a battle manga.

And the surrounding circumstances regarding Jump's environment means Gintama's success will never be recreated. And...I'm fine with that, honestly. It makes Gintama special.

 

[WyldViolet]

And the surrounding circumstances regarding Jump's environment means Gintama's success will never be recreated. And...I'm fine with that, honestly. It makes Gintama special.

Why not? Jump had Beelzebub running for years at the same time which was a similarly versatile gag manga with a battle manga aesthetic (arguably three if you count Medaka Box and consider it successful (which I would given it ran for years and had a two season anime) which managed to be successful so what's stopping another one from being successful or even being as big of a face to the magazine as Gintama now that Gintama isn't around to compete with it?
It's not like Jump will just stop having mega-hits once their current mega-hits end. New ones will take their place with varying degrees of comparable success.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 23, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 23, 2019 ---

Also inb4 he brings up Hungry Marie and Kamio Yui failing as if we don't have countless manga of every type fail in Jump every year.
Doesn't mean another one won't stick in time.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Why not? Jump had Beelzebub running for years at the same time which was a similarly versatile gag manga with a battle manga aesthetic (arguably three if you count Medaka Box and consider it successful (which I would given it ran for years and had a two season anime) which managed to be successful so what's stopping another one from being successful or even being as big of a face to the magazine as Gintama now that Gintama isn't around to compete with it?
It's not like Jump will just stop having mega-hits once their current mega-hits end. New ones will take their place with varying degrees of comparable success.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 23, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 23, 2019 ---

Also inb4 he brings up Hungry Marie and Kamio Yui failing as if we don't have countless manga of every type fail in Jump every year.
Doesn't mean another one won't stick in time.

Gintama's success is impossible to recreate because the faster pacing of Jump hamstrings setting up a "semi-gag" as an episodic thing. A modern hit would be much closer to Golden Kamuy or Spy X Family, which have the same kind of set-up but have a continually moving plotline.

Also, it's not just that. As was once said by one of the voice actors, "Gintama is a manga for those who should've grown out of Shonen Jump". It's arguably the attribute which is most critical to its identity, and it's much harder to recreate than "Gags and action".

 

[WyldViolet]

Gintama's success is impossible to recreate because the faster pacing of Jump hamstrings setting up a "semi-gag" as an episodic thing. A modern hit would be much closer to Golden Kamuy or Spy X Family, which have the same kind of set-up but have a continually moving plotline.

Also, it's not just that. As was once said by one of the voice actors, "Gintama is a manga for those who should've grown out of Shonen Jump". It's arguably the attribute which is most critical to its identity, and it's much harder to recreate than "Gags and action".

"faster pacing of Jump"
Didn't we already go over this...? What was Black Cat or D. Gray Man? You have this weird idea that all manga prior to like 2014 were solely based on this episodic structure. It's simply not true and repeating it here a million times won't make it true nor convince anybody else because we will always correct you.

Not to mention Gintama had plenty of arcs with "plot" that connected to each other. Is this another series you haven't read that you're feigning expertise on?

And to your second part about Gintama being a series for readers "who should have grown out of Jump". Lots of series can occupy such a designation and a random voice actor of all peoples quote being likely taken out of context doesn't change that. A deconstruction like Chainsaw Man or Medaka Box for example would fit that. A series that strives for an older audience that read Jump in their youth isn't at all unlikely to be serialized again. That vague description fits literally almost all deconstructions and parody manga.

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

If i get money from everytime someone states that something is impossible to achieve/recreate because X or Y reasons...

 

[SalesNerd69]

@MangAniMY in general, what % of total volume sales for jump series come from outside of japan? Doesn't have to be specific just a general ballpark. Thanks in advance