Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[4Eyes]

I don't know why but i'm really hyped for the upcoming round. I feel like we will have at least one nice gag manga coming with it...

 

[ruggia]

Huh, so the editors of Shonen Jump are the same on Shonen Jump+? I thought they had a different editorial even though Nakano was editor in chief for both.

Editor in chief of Jump+ is Hosono, not Nakano. They are still operating as separate departments, although both chiefs attend their respective serialization meetings and some Jump editors work on Jump+ series and vice versa.

That said, it's not on the same level of integration as Kodansha where WSM, Bessatsu, and MangaPocket all share the same staff pool.

 

[Rain Spectre]

I didn't say I knew. But if we were getting new series in all likelihood we would have gotten a leak by now. You're fairly new so maybe you weren't aware

Frankly speaking, I don't ever remember such a thing happening with the previous batch, and I don't think it'll happen now. Hell, what I do remember was a five-batch leak which turned out to be completely false.

I don't know why but i'm really hyped for the upcoming round. I feel like we will have at least one nice gag manga coming with it...

Watch as that gag manga yet again fails because of the market changing.

 

[savethecat]

I didn't say I knew. But if we were getting new series in all likelihood we would have gotten a leak by now. You're fairly new so maybe you weren't aware

Why would New series mean an earlier leak? That’s never happened before iirc.
The leak will come the same time it usually comes whether we have new series or not.

The only way I think a new series would effect a leak would be if one of the new series is from a popular creator returning, such as a Tite Kubo.

 

[OtterBrigade]

Why would New series mean an earlier leak? That’s never happened before iirc.
The leak will come the same time it usually comes whether we have new series or not.

The only way I think a new series would effect a leak would be if one of the new series is from a popular creator returning, such as a Tite Kubo.

I think we have gotten new rounds leaked by sites listing what's on the cover but I don't recall it being that frequent.

 

[DeidaraGrimmjow]

In my memory, someone like Heiji would always post:

#38
(New Series)

#39
(New Series)

Before the actual TOC would be posted. So I'm just going off past experience. Guess we'll see soon.

 

[Ctkk]

Okay I've gone back and checked, and for both the Samurai 8 round and the Yui/Sayuuki one and the new series were leaked the same day as the previous issue's TOC, but several hours before it.

 

[Rain Spectre]

That's mostly just news traveling. We don't have reports on HQ Season 4 and MHA Season 4, so basically it seems none of the leakers have the issue yet.

 

[4Eyes]

Watch as that gag manga yet again fails because of the market changing.

But weren't we talking about SxF success hours ago?

 

[OniluapL]

But weren't we talking about SxF success hours ago?

Not that I really agree with the notion of gags failing, but a gag manga in the classic sense is way different than what Spy x Family is doing, you know.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Not that I really agree with the notion of gags failing, but a gag manga in the classic sense is way different than what Spy x Family is doing, you know.

Exactly. Spy x Family succeeds because it's story and characters are accessible and likable, and every chapter enables further discussion in some way (a lot of that being Anya memes). Gag manga in the traditional sense has a very short shelf life due to their purely episodic format, and with things such as YouTube and Netflix giving a free venue for the casual audience, the only things which are able to succeed in the manga market are the ones which are able to build upon themselves.

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

Seriously, i don't know where you come up with this logic, Youtube or Netflix has ZERO influence or impact in a manga genre like gag, you talk like gag mangas are a niche or a "trend" thing when isn't, it's a cultural thing in Japan, almost like standup comedy in the USA, every manga magazine in Japan has gag mangas, be a more traditional, modern or the 4-koma format, just because Shonen Jump had (only) 2 failures since Saiki and Gintama ended it doesn't mean anything, just that they didn't find that one that clicks with the readers.

The market or whatever you want to call it can change as much as it wants, but comedy/gag will be always something appreciated by the japanese readers.

 

[TiC]

What's the theme for the group cover?

The preview said everybody will be dressed as pirates. Likely part of One Piece's 22nd anniversary celebration.

 

[OtterBrigade]

and every chapter enables further discussion in some way (a lot of that being Anya memes). Gag manga in the traditional sense has a very short shelf life due to their purely episodic format,

These two sentences seem to contradict each other. If a lot of the discussion is memes why does it matter that the series itself is episodic? David-kun had a ton of memeable faces and I did see people using them on Twitter so shouldn't David have succeeded because it had memes?

 

[revo68]

 

[savethecat]

Seriously, i don't know where you come up with this logic, Youtube or Netflix has ZERO influence or impact in a manga genre like gag, you talk like gag mangas are a niche or a "trend" thing when isn't, it's a cultural thing in Japan, almost like standup comedy in the USA, every manga magazine in Japan has gag mangas, be a more traditional, modern or the 4-koma format, just because Shonen Jump had (only) 2 failures since Saiki and Gintama ended it doesn't mean anything, just that they didn't find that one that clicks with the readers.

The market or whatever you want to call it can change as much as it wants, but comedy/gag will be always something appreciated by the japanese readers.

I don’t think youtube has taken away from the popularity of “gag” manga/comics. But I would say social media has.
Quick, short-form Comedy comics are huge right now on sites like Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter; sometimes in the form of memes.

There are popular comic creators on social media in America, like Book Of Adam, Odd Ones Out, and FalseKneees. I would imagine Japan has their own popular comic creators on social media who are viral, but people overseas never hear about because

A. We’re not in Japan, so vital sensations over there probably don’t show up on most of our explore feeds.
B. These comics don’t appear in a magazine, nor are they published. And they probably aren’t even a “series”. Just gags from specific creators.

Anyway, I feel like kids, and young adults are probably more into internet, meme humor, right now, and are probably looking for that sort of comedy online rather than a physical magazine right now

 

[Rain Spectre]

Seriously, i don't know where you come up with this logic, Youtube or Netflix has ZERO influence or impact in a manga genre like gag, you talk like gag mangas are a niche or a "trend" thing when isn't, it's a cultural thing in Japan, almost like standup comedy in the USA, every manga magazine in Japan has gag mangas, be a more traditional, modern or the 4-koma format, just because Shonen Jump had (only) 2 failures since Saiki and Gintama ended it doesn't mean anything, just that they didn't find that one that clicks with the readers.

The market or whatever you want to call it can change as much as it wants, but comedy/gag will be always something appreciated by the japanese readers.

First off, I never said that Japanese readers didn't appreciate gag. The thing is that appreciation does in no way equal actual dedication to buy the damn things. Gag manga fail because readership simply isn't interested in throwing money at something which is a bunch of random jokes, and after maybe one readthrough will spend time collecting dust.

Secondly, Nakano has literally talked about YouTube being a competitor to Jump and manga as a whole because YouTube, as I said, is a much greater draw to a casual market because it is free and casual entertainment. Gag manga, literally the most casual market, is the one hit the hardest by this, because without a pick up and read market to support them, they have no long term hook.

Thirdly, yes, modern comedy manga is very much a valid market, but those things aren't gag manga. They have narrative structure, ongoing narratives, character development, all that stuff which is essential for discussion to actually grow. 4-koma meanwhile are from what I've observed mostly otaku stuff, so I don't even really see the argument there.

Fourthly, the fact that David and I'm From Japan failed is relevant, because they were literally without competition (they started the literal issue Gintama left). If Jump readers really desired a gag manga so much (and David def had fans), why wouldn't they have done better? It's almost like, again, there's a shift in the market which makes actually purchasing those series unappealing.

I'm somewhat baffled as to why you keep using these arguments on me. All of my comments are conclusions drawn from my own observations and discussions I have had with people on the matter, including actual JP readers who have given their thoughts. Giving a comment like "gag manga is a cultural thing so you wouldn't understand" isn't just fallacious, it's a downright hollow argument.

These two sentences seem to contradict each other. If a lot of the discussion is memes why does it matter that the series itself is episodic? David-kun had a ton of memeable faces and I did see people using them on Twitter so shouldn't David have succeeded because it had memes?

The Anya memes thing was a joke. At best, it's a feature, not the actual full draw to the whole manga. Samon had memes too, and it only got as far as it did because of outside influences.

I don’t think youtube has taken away from the popularity of “gag” manga/comics. But I would say social media has.
Quick, short-form Comedy comics are huge right now on sites like Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter; sometimes in the form of memes.

There are popular comic creators on social media in America, like Book Of Adam, Odd Ones Out, and FalseKneees. I would imagine Japan has their own popular comic creators on social media who are viral, but people overseas never hear about because

A. We’re not in Japan, so vital sensations over there probably don’t show up on most of our explore feeds.
B. These comics don’t appear in a magazine, nor are they published. And they probably aren’t even a “series”. Just gags from specific creators.

Anyway, I feel like kids, and young adults are probably more into internet, meme humor, right now, and are probably looking for that sort of comedy online rather than a physical magazine right now

See? This guy gets it.

 

[savethecat]

However, at the same time, it should also be considered that a lot of us barely pay attention to other magazines outside of Jump.

For all I know there could be some huge gag series in other magazines, and it may just be Jump that’s struggling to find a hit

 

[Rain Spectre]

However, at the same time, it should also be considered that a lot of us barely pay attention to other magazines outside of Jump.

For all I know there could be some huge gag series in other magazines, and it may just be Jump that’s struggling to find a hit

From what I've checked, that's probably not the case. At the very least, nothing in magazines not geared towards more mature/otaku audiences.

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

First off, I never said that Japanese readers didn't appreciate gag. The thing is that appreciation does in no way equal actual dedication to buy the damn things. Gag manga fail because readership simply isn't interested in throwing money at something which is a bunch of random jokes, and after maybe one readthrough will spend time collecting dust.

Secondly, Nakano has literally talked about YouTube being a competitor to Jump and manga as a whole because YouTube, as I said, is a much greater draw to a casual market because it is free and casual entertainment. Gag manga, literally the most casual market, is the one hit the hardest by this, because without a pick up and read market to support them, they have no long term hook.

Thirdly, yes, modern comedy manga is very much a valid market, but those things aren't gag manga. They have narrative structure, ongoing narratives, character development, all that stuff which is essential for discussion to actually grow. 4-koma meanwhile are from what I've observed mostly otaku stuff, so I don't even really see the argument there.

Fourthly, the fact that David and I'm From Japan failed is relevant, because they were literally without competition (they started the literal issue Gintama left). If Jump readers really desired a gag manga so much (and David def had fans), why wouldn't they have done better? It's almost like, again, there's a shift in the market which makes actually purchasing those series unappealing.

I'm somewhat baffled as to why you keep using these arguments on me. All of my comments are conclusions drawn from my own observations and discussions I have had with people on the matter, including actual JP readers who have given their thoughts. Giving a comment like "gag manga is a cultural thing so you wouldn't understand" isn't just fallacious, it's a downright hollow argument.

"Gag manga fail" lol Again, only 2 failures since Saiki and Gintama ended, why you keep with this narrative that readers don't want or are not invested in the genre? you have zero proof of that, the only thing is happening is that Jump don't have a new one yet when AGAIN, literally every magazine in Japan have gag/comedy mangas being published! You keep talking as if you're speaking for Japan.

Again, Youtube has nothing to do with Jump not having a popular gag manga in the moment when you have plenty of gag/comedy mangas out there being popular, you also don't have any proof of the connection between YT and not having a gag manga being popular.

Japan and David didn't make success simply because it didn't connected with the readers, simply as that, like any other manga, it doesn't matter if SJ doesn't have a gag manga at the moment, things are not going to be a success just because you have the space for it.

Your entire comment is just you projecting your own narrative as a fact without any actual proof, in the same way you did with the "Samurai 8 is a failure" or saying stuff like To Love-ru was popular because it was the "beginning of the internet in Japan". Stating that "i talked to people, even japanese ones" "i made my observations based in blah blah blah", what is this supposed to prove? that you know what Japan wants because you talked with 2 or 3 people or made your own observations and conclusions about it?

Please, the difference between your argumment and my is that you make pretensious claims about the industry and japanese readers as if you're a expert while i just know that it's a matter of time until the next popular gag manga appears because i've been following this magazine and the industry for 9 years, enough time to understand that everything is a matter of time and the next one will always appear sooner or later.