@Shasha23 Don't entertain his headcanon. His illogical arguments got old and nobody cares about that anymore. Wano is a perfect arc to show who stands where on the power scale. The arc itself will shut his arguments down.
Lets get back to Vivre before this become a power lvl discussion now because of 'beliefs' and 'ideals' from new info. Bottom line is bounties aren't always fact for someone's true power necessary as more on crimes and incidents like Hannabial said. Especially Marines choose how much to give to someone so they have to see and hear on what to give someone, so not always true each time give someone a bounty.
Happy to know more info on characters and who are the ones who have Haki and bounties. Makes it exciting to see and hope Oda showcase Big Mom Pirates during the war especially Smoothie as she need spotlight more to showcase as much as her other siblings and fellow Sweet Commanders. Also interested in her DF abilities and how far it can go too.
@Shasha23 Don't entertain his headcanon. His illogical arguments got old and nobody cares about that anymore. Wano is a perfect arc to show who stands where on the power scale. The arc itself will shut his arguments down.
1. Even for Robin, who at the first sight looks like threat only because of her knowledge, Aokiji says that her bounty is made of combat capabilities included. Combat capabilities were included in the bounty of an 8-year-old child and then he adds that her bounty also includes the threat she represents to WG. I dont know if you are debating and saying no to this but you can look it up, it is in the manga.
Combat abilities. Robin at the age of 8 had no combat abilities.
Combat abilities plays a role but not to a great extent.
All you're doing is taking 1 panel and ignoring other panels that talk about details when you're supposed to compile all the information as they do not contradict each other, but rather build a picture regarding how bounty works.
It's crime and incidents that move bounties, not strength.
2. Your early definitions were stating that it was only for crimes against WG and I have been saying otherwise, the WCI happened and you included accidents into your definition. Surely, to be recognized by the WG something has to happen, crime or an accident, I am not disputing that because you dont get high bounty or any bounty if you are unknown and hidden from the world, no matter how strong you are. However, the incidents and crimes dont determine the height of the bounty, the combat capabilities of an individual are the main factor for that.
Luffy's latest increase is not thanks to any crime, just another incident is not what increased it to 1.5Bil, it is a show of strength, it is a real representative of Luffy's combat capabilities after the time skip, a proof that he "won" against 1Bil strong opponent. He never gets a lower bounty increase than the guy who he defeated.
If Bounty were strength related, then Pedro wouldn't have a bounty because his bounty was based on simply researching Poneglyph much like Robin.
Crimes against the WG and incidents with others.
How did Caesar get a 300m bounty? From fighting anyone? Nope, from committing a crime being using a weapon of mass destruction.
No one has gotten a bounty without crime or incident.
And in fact, you're wrong in the fact that combat abilities are assessed. How are people who aren't there going to assess how strong a character is? They can't.
If a crime or incident is committed, a bounty is given.
If you read Dressrosa and the SBS, Oda said the SHs were given a flat raise of 50m simply for being a part of the crime/incident. Not that they all grew in 50m beri worth of strength.
Like I said, provide an instance where a bounty went up without:
Crime
or Incident
You will never be able to provide one because your conclusion is wrong being that you lack evidence or correlation to support your argument.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Assuming you have any recollection of aspects of the current arc:
Rising stars are also Urogue and rest of Supernovas of course, they are trying to establish their dominance, to get part of the pie. The Shichibukai's are established individuals who have proven their strength and their bounties are frozen since they joined the WG, of course their bounties dont represent their real strength but they are at least strong how much it is shown on their bounty posters. The commanders under the Yonko are established pirates whose bounties we probably will never see change, maybe Blackbeards crew since they are a new player on the chessboard.
Has nothing to do with "establishment", that's laughable when you think it through.
Establishment implies they need time to assess strength, that's funny because they've known the SHs for what, 2 years?
Luffy with a 300m bounty had no strength to even defeat a Pacifista; Sentomaru saw Zoro and Sanji defeat a Pacifista with 1 attack, yet they only acquired 300m bounties roughly? Kid was only 315m at the time. What Zoro and Sanji can do alone, Luffy needed the help of Sanji, Zoro, Franky, Robin and Chopper with a bounty of 300m. If strength was the case, clearly, people capable of defeating Pacifista individually should easily be in the 400s after such a show of power.
The idea it has anything to do with establishment is farcical idea-wise.
Shichibukai has nothing to do with being established. You become a Shichibukai as long as you're infamous and are useful to the Navy in deterring Pirates first and foremost.
Ace was given the opportunity to become a Shichibukai in his first year and only had a bounty of just 100m beri. He was barely known. Ace even defeated a Vice-Admiral with just a 100m beri bounty when Luffy with his 300m bounty couldn't even defeat a Pacifista alone. Hell, Lucci was not even at the level of a Vice-Admiral when Luffy acquired that bounty.
Combat abilities. Robin at the age of 8 had no combat abilities.
Combat abilities plays a role but not to a great extent.
All you're doing is taking 1 panel and ignoring other panels that talk about details when you're supposed to compile all the information as they do not contradict each other, but rather build a picture regarding how bounty works.
It's crime and incidents that move bounties, not strength.
If she had the DF at her age it is justified. Regardless whether she had it or not, that's what Aokiji told about her bounty. He made it sound like her threat to WG was a secondary thing. There are not many Robins and Urogues, they are rather an exception to be acknowledged.
Luffy caused countless incidents and didnt get a bounty nowhere close to Blackbeard who caused one incident and got 2,2Bil...
Irrelevant whether it was my first definitions.
What matters is the accuracy, knowledge is something that is progressive when it's incomplete.
It's crimes and incidents.
Well you will have to keep changing your definition until you realize that it cannot be changed anymore to fit your definition.
As I said, if crimes and accidents are the main thing, Luffy would have by far the highest bounty in the world. For the same incident, he and Blackbeard got a huge difference in bounty increase. It is because of the difference in strength.
If Bounty were strength related, then Pedro wouldn't have a bounty because his bounty was based on simply researching Poneglyph much like Robin.
Crimes against the WG and incidents with others.
Pedro infiltrated Yonko's territory in search of Poneglyphs and fought with a man who has 429mil bounty and left a scar on his eye and it seems like he had the strength to fight equally. 382mil bounty is justified.
Nope, you're wrong.
How did Caesar get a 300m bounty? From fighting anyone? Nope, from committing a crime being using a weapon of mass destruction.
No one has gotten a bounty without crime or incident.
And in fact, you're wrong in the fact that combat abilities are assessed. How are people who aren't there going to assess how strong a character is? They can't.
It is Oda who determines the height of the bounty and he knows exactly how strong each character is. Caesar was 300mil strong. He could have gotten 100mil bounty for the incident but it doesnt represent his power. He could have gotten 5Bil increase but that also doesnt represent his power. 300mil does.
As I said, I agree that increases happen after crimes and incidents, they dont fall out of sky but the amount of increase is according to proof of strength, that's why when you beat 1Bil strong opponent you get more than that.
Wrong.
That's irrelevant.
If a crime or incident is committed, a bounty is given.
If you read Dressrosa and the SBS, Oda said the SHs were given a flat raise of 50m simply for being a part of the crime/incident. Not that they all grew in 50m beri worth of strength.
Like I said, provide an instance where a bounty went up without:
Crime
or Incident
You will never be able to provide one because your conclusion is wrong being that you lack evidence or correlation to support your argument.
--- Double Post Merged, 7 minutes ago, Original Post Date: 9 minutes ago ---
Assuming you have any recollection of aspects of the current arc:
How often do they get an increase thanks to their captain? One time, for half a crew. Dont tell me that majority of the bounty is because of the captain, I wont buy that. I am not debating whether bounty is after great crimes and incidents, I am debating what determines by how much it increases and that is obviously proof of strength, Luffy would never have gotten a bounty above 1Bil if he wants that strong.
Which weakling has done infamous deeds? You have to be strong enough to do them. How much bounty increase has Buggy the Clown gotten for the crimes and incidents his captain Roger committed?
How much bounty increase have Katakuri, Cracker and all of the Charlotte family gotten for being involved in the same incident?
If she had the DF at her age it is justified. Regardless whether she had it or not, that's what Aokiji told about her bounty. He made it sound like her threat to WG was a secondary thing. There are not many Robins and Urogues, they are rather an exception to be acknowledged.
Luffy caused countless incidents and didnt get a bounty nowhere close to Blackbeard who caused one incident and got 2,2Bil...
This is the problem you're having in understanding bounty, you think there is only 1 panel that talks about bounties where there are many that talk about bounties.
Problem you're having is is like reading 1 thing about Haki, and then disregarding anything stated about Haki.
With such reasoning, it'd be like reading Haki makes it possible to hit Logias, but then a 100 chapters later, it states Haki makes things hard but you completely disregard it, lol.
As I said, if crimes and accidents are the main thing, Luffy would have by far the highest bounty in the world. For the same incident, he and Blackbeard got a huge difference in bounty increase. It is because of the difference in strength.
If crimes and incidents raised bounties, Luffy would be higher than Blackbeard?
That's got to be a joke.
Blackbeard took advantage of the war, setup himself to gain entree into Impel Down masterfully, took advantage of a war, acquired the Gura Gura no Mi and possesses a 2nd DF, became an Emperor within a year and you think everything Luffy has done trumps that? Laughable.
Blackbeard pulled off the move of the century with ingenuity, great-timing and finesse.
Luffy didn't become good enough to become an Emperor with such influence until 2 years and plenty of crimes and incident whereas Blackbeard did it in few chess moves?
It is Oda who determines the height of the bounty and he knows exactly how strong each character is. Caesar was 300mil strong. He could have gotten 100mil bounty for the incident but it doesnt represent his power. He could have gotten 5Bil increase but that also doesnt represent his power. 300mil does.
Well, okay that's not new information, of course he decides bounties.
Caesar was not 300m strong. Luffy with his 300m bounty couldn't even dream of defeating Caesar.
Caesar was taking Gear 2nd punches with Haki when Luffy's punches where that powerful 2 years ago.
Caesar took Gear 2nd punches with Hardened Armament which were far more powerful than the Gear 2nd attacks that Pacifistas ate to be 1-shot by Luffy.
Bounty doesn't represent strength, it represents the total magnitude of all the crimes (threat) one has committed.
Mind you, this is a Manga written in Japanese and sometimes doesn't translate well into English. If you don't read between the lines, you'd be one of those believing that Luffy is immune to blunt damage when the fact is he's just got high resistance. While he might say he's immune to blunt damage due to mistranslated, have to read between the lines.
You read between the lines, strength is nigh irrelevant, if anything, it's a poor choice of word. Only thing that moves bounties is crimes and incidents because that is all bounties reflect for the most part, the magnitude of all the crimes one has committed.
Your reasoning is like this. Hypothetically, someone weights 1kg kg, they eat 100 kg worth of food, and then end up weighing 110 kg. They eat 13 kg and suddenly now gain 123 kg. Your reasoning here would be like claiming that weight is not more or less the a measure of all the food one has eaten in this hypothetical setting. People ONLY get bounties or bounty raises after known crimes (incidents against the WG) or incidents (incidents not against the WG), yet your logic is it's a measure of strength? The logic here is incoherent.
The magnitude of both incidents were on a completely different scale.
Also, you're oblivious to the fact that Blackbeard's bounty didn't go to 2.2 billion immediately after Marineford.
He'd done things since Marineford such as the Grudge War with Marco and co., his encounter with the RA, the fact his crew were hunting Devil fruits and probably other unmentioned things.
Bounty is not a value of 1 crime or incident, but all crimes and incidents.
Therefore, Blackbeard's 2.2b bounty is the accumulation of all the crimes and incidents he's been involved in since Marineford up until now.
Your reasoning here is like claiming WCI was worth a bounty increase of billion, no, it was worth 1 billion.
And the magnitude of what Blackbeard did in comparison was of a greater scale than Luffy simply going into WCI, dealing some damage and dipping.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
If you understood that bounty is simply based on crime and incident and everything else is auxiliary and a guesstimate in terms of strength or intelligence which can't really be measured as Oda said, you'd be able to actually understand why someone like MontD'or only has a bounty of 120 million. Despite how powerful he is and despite the fact he's not only as weak/strong as Zoro was when he had a 120m bounty, you'd see that his bounty is probably low because:
He's one of the people who governs WCI in Big Mom's stead and probably has less opportunity to be involved in campaigns and such. this probably also applies to Daifuku and Oven especially given that Big Mom's country is an archipelago of many Islands that need to be governed and are run by her kids.
Bounty simply is no measure of strength for the most part. It's even more apparent when Luffy got a bounty that's 1.5x higher than Katakuri's when he's clearly not 1.5x stronger than Katakuri. They were equally as powerful as the other at that point in time.
Heck, Weevil whose strength has been stated by Oda (not just in the Manga) to have strength that rivals Whitebeard's in his prime in Vivre cards, 470m bounty. Kid has a 470m bounty after the time-skip, guess he must be as powerful as Whitebeard in his prime too? Luffy must be 3x as strong as Whitebeard in his prime too?
Bounties simply make no sense if you stick with that belief that it's based on strength for the most part.
We cant agree on this man, no need to drag this on. I have long lost the interested to run marathons, whether it is you or someone else...
I was waiting for you to address Buggy and Charlottes or anyone who fought against SHs in the same incidents but I guess that is it from you. I will address few points, after that I am out because you cant convince me otherwise nor can I convince you.
This is the problem you're having in understanding bounty, you think there is only 1 panel that talks about bounties where there are many that talk about bounties.
Problem you're having is is like reading 1 thing about Haki, and then disregarding anything stated about Haki.
With such reasoning, it'd be like reading Haki makes it possible to hit Logias, but then a 100 chapters later, it states Haki makes things hard but you completely disregard it, lol.
No, I am not discarding other things, I am well aware of them and I have told it several times here, today. Incidents and crimes happen all the time, yet bounties dont increase each time they happen. It is because the proof of strength didn't occur. The opposing side of Strawhats never gets bounty increase for being involved in the exact same incident because they didnt show proof of greater strength. I dont know how you miss this huge hole in your theory.
Luffy said that Hody Jones could get at least 100mil bounty thanks to a single stat-toughness, he didnt say he could get it for the crime of killing queen Otohime.
Hilarious.
If crimes and incidents raised bounties, Luffy would be higher than Blackbeard?
That's got to be a joke.
Blackbeard took advantage of the war, setup himself to gain entree into Impel Down masterfully, took advantage of a war, acquired the Gura Gura no Mi and possesses a 2nd DF, became an Emperor within a year and you think everything Luffy has done trumps that? Laughable.
Blackbeard pulled off the move of the century with ingenuity, great-timing and finesse.
Luffy didn't become good enough to become an Emperor with such influence until 2 years and plenty of crimes and incident whereas Blackbeard did it in few chess moves?
Nothing hilarious when you think about it.
Luffy caused far more incidents and far bigger issues for Navy than Blackbeard ever did and never got anything close to Blackbeards bounty which is thanks to major incidents - ID/MF and Payback war. The difference only comes from show of strength, Luffy was far too weak to do anything significant to justify high bounty. Blackbeard demonstrated a show of strength which Luffy didnt. Blackbeard couldnt pull off "the move of century" if he wasnt strong enough.
Hunting some irrelevant pirates didnt get him 2.2Bil, the clash with Sengoku, Whitebeard, Magellan and Marco did because it is proof of strength.
Amount of incidents and crimes doesnt matter and it never did, their magnitude is irrelevant as well, all those are minor factors. Show me a weakling with incredibly high bounty. You wont find one.
Well, okay that's not new information, of course he decides bounties.
Caesar was not 300m strong. Luffy with his 300m bounty couldn't even dream of defeating Caesar.
Caesar was taking Gear 2nd punches with Haki when Luffy's punches where that powerful 2 years ago.
Caesar took Gear 2nd punches with Hardened Armament which were far more powerful than the Gear 2nd attacks that Pacifistas ate to be 1-shot by Luffy.
Bounty doesn't represent strength, it represents the total magnitude of all the crimes (threat) one has committed.
Mind you, this is a Manga written in Japanese and sometimes doesn't translate well into English. If you don't read between the lines, you'd be one of those believing that Luffy is immune to blunt damage when the fact is he's just got high resistance. While he might say he's immune to blunt damage due to mistranslated, have to read between the lines.
You read between the lines, strength is nigh irrelevant, if anything, it's a poor choice of word. Only thing that moves bounties is crimes and incidents because that is all bounties reflect for the most part, the magnitude of all the crimes one has committed.
Your reasoning is like this. Hypothetically, someone weights 1kg kg, they eat 100 kg worth of food, and then end up weighing 110 kg. They eat 13 kg and suddenly now gain 123 kg. Your reasoning here would be like claiming that weight is not more or less the a measure of all the food one has eaten in this hypothetical setting. People ONLY get bounties or bounty raises after known crimes (incidents against the WG) or incidents (incidents not against the WG), yet your logic is it's a measure of strength? The logic here is incoherent.
Caesar was 300mil strong, it is a justified number when you consider his abilities and when you compare it to others of similar bounty it fits perfectly.
No idea what the Luffy's immunity to blunt damage should represent but I dont think that way. Strength(combat abilities) isnt irrelevant, it is a major factor.
You wont find a weakling with high bounty, all those people are strong enough for their bounty. We will never know their crimes and incidents because they are irrelevant.
He didnt get anything for beating Moriah, it was covered up and the difference in bounty isnt worth an increase. His 300mil bounty is thanks to destroying Island of justice.
Bounty simply is no measure of strength for the most part. It's even more apparent when Luffy got a bounty that's 1.5x higher than Katakuri's when he's clearly not 1.5x stronger than Katakuri. They were equally as powerful as the other at that point in time.
Heck, Weevil whose strength has been stated by Oda (not just in the Manga) to have strength that rivals Whitebeard's in his prime in Vivre cards, 470m bounty. Kid has a 470m bounty after the time-skip, guess he must be as powerful as Whitebeard in his prime too? Luffy must be 3x as strong as Whitebeard in his prime too?
It makes perfect sense once you understand how it works.
I thought that 1.5Bil wasnt justified for Luffy but it actually describes his power perfectly.
have long lost the interested to run marathons, whether it is you or someone else...
I was waiting for you to address Buggy and Charlottes or anyone who fought against SHs in the same incidents but I guess that is it from you. I will address few points, after that I am out because you cant convince me otherwise nor can I convince you.
How much bounty increase did Buggy get for crimes and incidents his captain Roger caused? And he caused a lot of them, more than anyone else.
How much bounty increase did Cracker and Katakuri get for WCI incident? Or other Charlottes for being part of the same crew, under same captain? Or any other opponent of Strawhats that was involved in the same incident with them?
Wrong.
A DF is just a power. Her power is simply to reproduce more limbs.
An 8 year old child reproducing a few more limbs is not an assessment of power that quantifies 80 million, lol.
What weaknesses was it exploiting? Peaking? Big whoop.
Grabbing people by their family jewels is one way. Producing enough arms to cover their eyes is enough to be able to deal with them. She sank several warships, 8 year-old-child without her abilities wouldnt be able to do the same, fodder marines being tricked and beaten by her could get her noticeable bounty. Ace and Sabo as children without her DF were able to beat grown-ups, no reason why she couldnt with such a broken ability.
No, I am not discarding other things, I am well aware of them and I have told it several times here, today. Incidents and crimes happen all the time, yet bounties dont increase each time they happen.
Only time a bounty won't be increased after an incident is if it's unknown.
They go up everytime unless you've forgotten the majority of the story:
1st Bounty: After Luffy ran through East Blue and the news got reported to the Navy =Crime/Incident 1 - 30m
2nd Bounty: After Luffy defeated Crocodile and opposed the WG by abusing respect for the Shichibukai system = Crime/Incident 2 - 100m
3rd potential Bounty: Skypiea, but it was unknown.
3rd Bounty: Enies Lobby publicly reported and known to the world resulted in the next Bounty increase = Crime/Incident 3 - Laughable, Zoro and Sanji bot fought opponents of roughly the same Doriki (actual power level assuming you're not aware), yet Zoro had a bounty of 120m while Sanji only had a 77 million. 20 Doriki difference = a 41m Beri difference right? lol... - 300m
4th potential Bounty: Thriller Bark incident which was not known to the world, so his bounty remained at 300m. It was also kept a secret from the public.
4th Bounty: After punching a Tenryuubito, breaking into Impel Down and causing a ruckus at Marineford, he gained another bounty = Crime/Incident 4 - 400m.
To say bounties don't go up each time they happen is indicative you're definitely not aware of how bounties work.
Like I said, if you knew how bounties worked, you'd know the reason why Luffy didn't get a Bounty increase after Thriller Bark for example is because the incident wasn't made public. Only public incidents/crimes result in bounty increases.
He didnt get anything for beating Moriah, it was covered up and the difference in bounty isnt worth an increase. His 300mil bounty is thanks to destroying Island of justice.
Again, if you knew how bounties worked, only known incidents/crimes result in bounty increases. If Bounty had anything to do with strength, it'd have been raised up. Reason it wasn't raised was to hide the fact that Luffy had been involved in another huge incident.
If you read what Joker even said concerning Luffy, you'd know how bounties work, but you do not. He said he knew Luffy was the one who defeated Crocodile instead of Smoker because Luffy's bounty went from 30m to 100m without explanation. He's more or less saying Bounty increases = Incident/Crime, not strength.
Got to read between the lines and you're not doing that at all.
He barely defeated someone worth less than 1.1 billion.
That's not evidence he can beat someone worth 1.2 billion lol.
You're contradicting yourself here and taking common sense and logic out of the equation.
How do you determine that someone who barely defeated a 1.1 Billion Beri fighter is suddenly 1.5x stronger than a 1 billion beri man?
That's lacking common sense logically. Logic would have had Luffy at 1.1 billion or the same bounty as Katakuri given that he the match was evenly matched or barely even Luffy's victory.
Grabbing people by their family jewels is one way. Producing enough arms to cover their eyes is enough to be able to deal with them. She sank several warships, 8 year-old-child without her abilities wouldnt be able to do the same, fodder marines being tricked and beaten by her could get her noticeable bounty. Ace and Sabo as children without her DF were able to beat grown-ups, no reason why she couldnt with such a broken ability.
It's humouring that you even call this a rebuttal. This is petty crime. No one gets bounties for petty crimes, lol. This is not proof of being a threat to the WG.
It's like you don't quite comprehend that crime/incident is the only thing that relates to bounty.
Robin's bounty was because she'd studied the Poneglyph and the excuse they used to justify her actual crime was destroying war-ships. Not grabbing balls.
People don't get bounty for petty crimes, that's child's play, lol.
For the billionth time, i already agreed with this and this is your counter argument in each reply... Move on from it and address the points which your definition doesnt cover aka change definition.
His first bounty was not a petty crime. Defeating Arlong and East Blue's strongest and offending a Navy Officer is not a petty crime. Not the same thing as stealing food. Not a good comparison.
You do know what an incident means right? An incident is simply a pretty big event in this context. Defeating East blue's most notorious Pirates is an incident and more so, calling one's self a Pirate.
Opposing the Navy is a CRIME, being a Pirate is a CRIME and then proving one is a threat defeating the strongest in East Blue is an Incident.
Robin didn't do anything close to that, she did something completely different. She read the Poneglyph which you don't seem to understand is a CRIME.
They didn't want to cause uproar of him beating Moriah, so probably that's why and plus not enough crime as unlike Crocodile and Doflamingo, they were really 'terroizing' and abusing on people. He just wanted revenge on Kaido from his side is all.
They didn't want to cause uproar of him beating Moriah, so probably that's why and plus not enough crime as unlike Crocodile and Doflamingo, they were really 'terroizing' and abusing on people. He just wanted revenge on Kaido from his side is all.
What the... what are you even saying?
Moriah was terrorizing people stealing they lives even Marines, the only reason Luffy didnt get increase was because they were about to begin a war and they couldnt kick Moriah out at such a time!
They didn't want to cause uproar of him beating Moriah, so probably that's why and plus not enough crime as unlike Crocodile and Doflamingo, they were really 'terroizing' and abusing on people. He just wanted revenge on Kaido from his side is all.
Stop with issue, Lexus. They did said that they want it a secret of Luffy beating Moriah. Why canon give you a stroke? Got to reread arc after they defeated Kuma.
Also forgot to delete 'A' above your post. Looks weird placement there.
What the... what are you even saying?
Moriah was terrorizing people stealing they lives even Marines, the only reason Luffy didnt get increase was because they were about to begin a war and they couldnt kick Moriah out at such a time!
I meant more so conquroring an land and more so on hidden agenda behind it. Moriah go after anyone whether innocent or not, but not because like Crocodile and Doflamingo to owned and ruled over others, but mainly revenge on Kaido. He was aiming to head to NW after creating and making a new crew to defeat Kaido in the end. Have you forgotten his past and what Kaido did with his old crew -.-...
Stop with trolling Lexus. They did said that they want it a secret of Luffy beating Moriah. Why canon give you a stroke? Got to reread arc after they defeated Kuma.
