Chapter Tower of God Chapter 443 Spoilers & Discussion

[Urek123]

Native One divided into 5 beings and each being has an element = 5 ancient Bloodline

but there are other ancient Bloodline = Yura, Hwaryun, Evan, Elder

Rak's Bloodline comes from Native One

 

[LushuMine]

I do believe that the dog kind will be alive even if Doom dies since Baam got part of his powers. Baam will be the new heart of the canine people and Yama will own him.

Btw, the ability to share powers do not suit Baam, it's the opposit of his powers. It would be weird to SIU goes on this way. Baam has never been a support also.

 

[BladeFist]

It's wrong. In chapter 376 Data Khun says that the Native One are the descendants of an ancient, that he also calls a giant.

I didn't say I know korean better than Adios. I don't know korean at all. But Adios (not a bot and certainly not me) translated it as "Yeon Family head was gifted by the ancientS two fires" not "the ancient two fires" or "the two ancient fires".
I never said a native one granted their fire to Yeon. But an ancient, from whom the native ones descend. And whether you like it or not Yeon received her fire from an external source, be it an ancient or something else.

It was said (or implied) Eduan discovered his attribute with the little gadget he gave Baam and cie so no ancient involved here don't worry.

It's actually quite posible that those irregulars aquired powers from the native ones since zahard killed them, even tough they where climbing the tower with him.

That is enough reason for ancients to share their power with people who also hate and/or want dead zahard and the FH who participated in the killing.

 

[toil]

Agreed, endorsi definitely has the best specks for it. Her own ridiculously op shinsoo quality combined with the essence of bravery would make her a force to be reckoned with at all ranges.

Seconded-or-thirded she’s a natural fit for it but to work well in the story it seems weird for Baam to just start giving away power-ups. Maybe as “save her life” thing.

If Androssi winds up with a forehead gem...maybe ToG actually is influenced (perhaps unconsciously) by Eureka Seven? That’s a crack theory that’s too crack for even me to take seriously, but I’d revisit it with a forehead gem emerging.

I got that, I just find the scenario generally weird. Bam's already halfway there to turning into a cronenberg monster when using his revolution, he doesn't need to arbitrarily grow dog parts out of anywhere or be more dog like.

I agree but as a reminder: near the end of the battle with data Zahard Baam takes on the form of a black dog (or his shinsoo/aura/etc. does, at least). I don’t really like the idea of a dog-Baam but there’s something going on with all this.

The main point seems to be that evankhel's and yeon's flames have a common origin: native ones. With the yeon having being gifted the flames while evankhel was probably simply born with them. It sounds reasonable that perhaps the yeon had flame related shinsoo qualities to begin with though

All else aside, I have a hunch we’re going to increasingly see the great warriors split based on their attitude towards the natives: V was curious about them, Hendo too, and presumably Yeon did something to earn their favor. We haven’t seen non-data Eduan yet but data Eduan was V-sympathetic. Gustang I think it’s less clear but some of his ship’s crew looked native (just sayin’).

Too soon to say but another data point.

 

[Urek123]

Hana may have won 2 flames from the ancients, but she must have her own

 

[One Peace]

It's possible Hana also has a third flame within her that is her own. After all Baam's gf has a rare flame that only transmits to girls I think?

 

[BladeFist]

Hana may have won 2 flames from the ancients, but she must have her own

I'm not so sure about that, i'm under the impression that most powers in the tower are lent by the tower or entities that have some degree of representation of the tower itself. Take for example shinsoo, regulars need to make contracts with floor administrators to control the shinsoo of that floor, and administrators are entities that represent the will of the tower itself.

The only exception to this are irregulars, who appear to be free of the tower's rules and are free to use shinsoo freely. Still, Zahard climbed the tower with direct descendants of the native one, implying that were needed to some degree. Going by Zahard's behavior, killing them and absorving their habilities to control the elements of the tower is quite posible.

 

[Vitala]

It´s just that people want everything to be related to the natives ones now,i don't know, but i didn't saw in this chapter where it ´s said that she received her powers from the natives one or that she shares the same power as evankhell, thoses ancients are not higher beings than the guardian, there is no way a FH will share the same power as an ancients or whatever, the FH attributes is combined with their shinwonryu, so evankhell can't have the same flame as hana like some of you hope.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 12, 2019, Original Post Date: Aug 12, 2019 ---

I'm not so sure about that, i'm under the impression that most powers in the tower are lent by the tower or entities that have some degree of representation of the tower itself. Take for example shinsoo, regulars need to make contracts with floor administrators to control the shinsoo of that floor, and administrators are entities that represent the will of the tower itself.

The only exception to this are irregulars, who appear to be free of the tower's rules and are free to use shinsoo freely. Still, Zahard climbed the tower with direct descendants of the native one, implying that were needed to some degree. Going by Zahard's behavior, killing them and absorving their habilities to control the elements of the tower is quite posible.

Powers in the tower are lent by guardians, there is not an higher entity than them exept the one who created the tower, .

They climbed with the DD of the native one like they climbed with luslec or quadrado or received item from the workshop , the native ones were not the only race cursed, aka and yura race were ciresed too, that means there were many races and tribes involved in the great journey.
Until now zahard is not know to have the ability to absorb others people ability,only baam in the tower has that ability, zahard and eduan were even surprised in their fight.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

It's funny, because the more you talk about how ancients/native ones don't matter, the more it is shown in the series to be a big deal that is unfolding with huge implications. See the 'native one' thread for more comic relief....

Just this season:

- the elder too has native one/ancient powers
- an ancient spear appears
- now we get some backstory on the Yeon flame and EVK's elite fire power




I'm not sure how you square EVK talking about Yeon family getting flames from an ancient source, as an ancient descendant/ancient-powered herself, while she compares her actual flame to the Yeon flames.... and somehow the things aren't interrelated or important.

Just because you hate the native one angle. lol

 

[One Peace]

But Hana's flames are not her own. And I checked this colors of the two fires in this chap are orange (like Khun's healing fire) and reddish (like yihwa's fire which is supposed to be the Yeon flame). Baam did combine his orb with everything that went inside him, so why can't Hana do the same? I don't know how people are okay that Baam receives so many outside powers but are not okay when one of the FH is in the same case.

I don't think Hana's fire comes from the same ancient who Evk descends from tho: the giant prob wasn't alive anymore at the time since it already split into 5, plus Evk's fire is orange and doesn't seem to hold any healing ability. To me it rather sounds like an ancient directly gave all its fire power to Hana. Data Khun did say the ancient one that split into 5 was incredibly powerful so the whole power of one attribute isn't a joke.

I highly doubt all FH are in the same case as Hana tho. Maybe some of them also received something, could be a power or a weapon but Zahard's power def seemed to be his own, same for Eduan.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Also, considering their raw, elemental usage of shinsoo it's not a far cry to imagine the native ones (particularly the giant itself) as being somehow RELATED to guardians.

Guardians/Admin are... well, giants.
Admin have unparalleled shinsoo control.
Both predate the OG13.



Maybe the ancient native ones represent baby admin. We don't know much about either really. We already have precedent with the thryssa. That seemed to be more of a pupal stage but a more intermediate (3rd instar lol) appearance very well may look like something along the lines of a native one - which present as giant beasts.

Also, in that fight with Enryu (flashback) the admin changed form. It produced many figures that were animalistic and gigantic. Some even resembled natives ones IMO.

But, keep the hate train going. It's been derailed for a while now (hatred on core three getting power ups, hatred on AA's fish powers, hatred over anything native/ancient, etc) - I find it comical and it literally makes the coming chapters seem to disagree with your assessment over what is important or not more and more.

 

[BladeFist]

It´s just that people want everything to be related to the natives ones now,i don't know, but i didn't saw in this chapter where it ´s said that she received her powers from the natives one or that she shares the same power as evankhell, thoses ancients are not higher beings than the guardian, there is no way a FH will share the same power as an ancients or whatever, the FH attributes is combined with their shinwonryu, so evankhell can't have the same flame as hana like some of you hope.

What is the problem with people wanting something? Debate their arguments, not what they want. You do this al the time and make debates personal attacks.

Shinwonryu is a syle, not an atribute, therefore is just about "what Shinwonryu suits you better".

Powers in the tower are lent by guardians, there is not an higher entity than them exept the one who created the tower, .

They climbed with the DD of the native one like they climbed with luslec or quadrado or received item from the workshop , the native ones were not the only race cursed, aka and yura race were ciresed too, that means there were many races and tribes involved in the great journey.
Until now zahard is not know to have the ability to absorb others people ability,only baam in the tower has that ability, zahard and eduan were even surprised in their fight.

It stand corrected, i wrote administrators, it was guardians.

Nope, Guardians are not the higher entities in the tower as shown by Enryu wipping the floor with a guardian, and Enryu is an Irregular, not an Axis.

Saying that so far Zahard is not know to have the ability to absorv others perople abilities is valid. Satiting that ONLY BAAM has that ability in the Tower is not, While SIU does not officialy states BAAM being the only one with that ability, then it's plausible for anyone else to have it.
If Evankhel and Hana did receive the flame power from ancients, that is proof enough that ability transfer is a fact, whether the transfer si consensual or not, that's another deal.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Ability transfer is completely canon over and over -

- anima controlling their beasts which are buffed from the user
- EVK has ancient powers
- Yeon family received ancient powers as well
- Doom can control and empower regular tower inhabitants turning them into doggos
- Karaka seems to have buffed his ranker armies
- Poken can grant people part of his shadow, like Reflejo
- GoG was given ability to use shinwonryu
- the living ignition weapons
- Hendo gets his immortality vicariously by taking life from his descendants
- Contracts grant power otherwise inaccessible
- Souls are routinely absorbed, extracted, and stored
- Daniel H's powers
- AA's newfound firefish
- the firehammer from Woon
- Thryssa powers jump from entity to entity



So it's not unreasonable to think that Zahard or other irregulars could also absorb or grant/receive various powers along the way. It's all over ToG.

That said the Yeon family seems like a one-off with the ancient powers thing so far.

 

[BladeFist]

Ability transfer is completely canon over and over -

- anima controlling their beasts which are buffed from the user
- EVK has ancient powers
- Yeon family received ancient powers as well
- Doom can control and empower regular tower inhabitants turning them into doggos
- Karaka seems to have buffed his ranker armies
- Poken can grant people part of his shadow, like Reflejo
- GoG was given ability to use shinwonryu
- the living ignition weapons
- Hendo gets his immortality vicariously by taking life from his descendants
- Contracts grant power otherwise inaccessible
- Souls are routinely absorbed, extracted, and stored
- Daniel H's powers
- AA's newfound firefish
- the firehammer from Woon
- Thryssa powers jump from entity to entity



So it's not unreasonable to think that Zahard or other irregulars could also absorb or grant/receive various powers along the way. It's all over ToG.

That said the Yeon family seems like a one-off with the ancient powers thing so far.

Actually, was looking at some facts of the 13 month series, wich are sentient weapons; The essence of bravery is also sentient, and both devil's arms and beta carry powers and abilities embbeded on them by force (and most probably extracted by force from original owners).

Also, the descendants of the 10 great families get their powers and abilities trough their blood inheritance, whether they like it or not. The same that happens with the descendants of the native ones.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Yup, and then there's the princess program.

 

[Madelin]

As of this moment, it's already confirmed that Yeon received their power from the ancient while it is very plausible for LPB to also receive their power from the ancient

That's make it 2 out of 13 Zahard's original gang.

Btw, I'm also anticipating a little backstory for Rak's being direct descendent to be reveal in this arc

It's been a long time coming

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Animas preceded LPB so there's a chance.

 

[Vitala]

Nope, Guardians are not the higher entities in the tower as shown by Enryu wipping the floor with a guardian, and Enryu is an Irregular, not an Axis.

Saying that so far Zahard is not know to have the ability to absorv others perople abilities is valid. Satiting that ONLY BAAM has that ability in the Tower is not, While SIU does not officialy states BAAM being the only one with that ability, then it's plausible for anyone else to have it.
If Evankhel and Hana did receive the flame power from ancients, that is proof enough that ability transfer is a fact, whether the transfer si consensual or not, that's another deal.

Guardians are the higher authority in the tower, enryu is not from the tower, he is a god messenger frol the outside, phanta is a fucking axis.
Baam is the only one until ´now in the series who can absorb someone ability, this why he can reproduce such abilities afterward, white for example can absorb people souls and powers but not abilities.
I never said sharing abilities with someone is impossible but only baam can absorb and copy anyones abilities.
It will make sense that hana received her flame from another entity than evankhell.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 12, 2019, Original Post Date: Aug 12, 2019 ---

As of this moment, it's already confirmed that Yeon received their power from the ancient while it is very plausible for LPB to also receive their power from the ancient

That's make it 2 out of 13 Zahard's original gang.

Btw, I'm also anticipating a little backstory for Rak's being direct descendent to be reveal in this arc

It's been a long time coming

Confirmed ? Where ? Clearly not in this chapter, theories are now taken as facts ? What is ancients by the way in the context of TOG ? I'am sure you can't give a proper answer.

 

[BladeFist]

bla bla bla...

1.- If powers in the tower are lent or granted by guardians, then the guardian wouldn't have lost to Enryu. He could just have stripped Enryu of any power.

2.- They climbed the tower with others because they needed them, and at some point there is nothing that prevents Zahard to have stolen other's powers and/or abilities.

3.- Zahard and Eduan are Data of the times when they cleared the Hell Train, not from they time they became FH, therefore they being surprised doesn't mean jack.

4.- Current Zahard wasn't even faced when Baam's Thorn activated spatial-distortion to save Baam, much less was he surprised by the fact that Baam was alive, in fact, he took it as another twist of fate for him to face, and even took the time to small talk with his data heavilly implying he had changed the further he got up into the tower.

5.- Current Zahard even admitted that he and Current Eduan are in bad terms and that both of them Data collaborating was a surprise.

6.- Whatever Enryu is or is not is not clear, so there is no way to pinpoint the origin of his powers, but it was stated that it was a Shinsoo fight and that Enryu did wipe the floor with the guardian without breaking a sweat.

7.- Me pointing that Enryu is not an Axis was just to indicate that Phantaminum is even on a higher level than Enryu, and of course even higher up than Guardians.

8.- So far, Baam is the only one we have seen to be able to absorb and/or replicate other people's skills and abilities, but that doesn't mean that he is the only in the tower with that power. After all, we are currently in the 52 floor (Correct me if wrong on this one).

9.- Yeah, you are right, there is a chance that Hana's flame have a different origin than evankhel's, but if evankhel brings up the subject of their origin and goes even further to compare her's to Hana's, gives plenty of room for speculation.

 

[EternalWinter]

It's wrong. In chapter 376 Data Khun says that the Native One are the descendants of an ancient, that he also calls a giant.

I didn't say I know korean better than Adios. I don't know korean at all. But Adios (not a bot and certainly not me) translated it as "Yeon Family head was gifted by the ancientS two fires" not "the ancient two fires" or "the two ancient fires".
I never said a native one granted their fire to Yeon. But an ancient, from whom the native ones descend. And whether you like it or not Yeon received her fire from an external source, be it an ancient or something else.

It was said (or implied) Eduan discovered his attribute with the little gadget he gave Baam and cie so no ancient involved here don't worry.

I asked him


永遠の冬Today at 10:46 PM


@Adioscorea question



Native ones are the descendants of the ancients iirc, so they are not the ancients themselves. It seems reasonable that they'd be weaker. The descendants of the 10 FH are in general way weaker than the 10 FH for instance. But now I am confused. "Yeon Family head was gifted by the ancients two fires" could mean either "Yeon Family head was gifted by the two ancient fires" or "Yeon Family head was gifted two fires by the ancients". However where would these ancient fires come from if not from an ancient? I still think the ancients gifted them to Yeon and that's why Evankhell brought it out. Maybe we'll get a new trans of that part that will clarify things or Siu will add more in his blogpost and/or next chap. Someone should ask adios on discord if they can check this part of the chap.



any idea


AdioscoreaToday at 10:48 PM

The latter


The ancients gifted Hana two fires