Fantasy Mercophobia vs Igneel

[WoWfan]

How is my calc nonsense when seven disregarded it, this proves that this is entirely separate, this is an entirely legitimate question as you claim that Bluenote is the strongest there is with better feats than everyone else, you see the flaw I your logic?

And it is called tooling. You seem to have more issues with than when you were using it all this time

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

Building level damage. Whose to say your cals are perfect correct. You use nothing but baseless assumption.

 

[WoWfan]

Multi-Continent damage, I did my research, compare to other similar feats and run it by math and scientific experts and they got positive validation from them. This info is from the manga itself and applied perfectly

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

Building level damage. Whose to say your cals are perfect correct. You use nothing but baseless assumption.

Your calculation are irrelevant. It based false on assumptions. Town level water == multi contintental.

 

[WoWfan]

Your assumptions of my supposed assumptions are even worse with no evidence to back it up. With most of the water evaporated by Ignia, that is why people survived

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

That water was only worth town. You can clearly see sky. I showed you panel. What Ignia's flame only damages town as well.

 

[WoWfan]

It is worth an ocean as stated to be one, a sky can show when the ocean is shaped to show it. It is his flames that evaporated most of the water, it doesn’t exclude what happened

Besides it is a known trait for manga artists to lose investment at some point to draw in detail of the background, look at tite kubo in later arcs

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

It's was stated to be sea. He lift town worth of water. Those beams did building level damage to elemina. Giletina was still standing. If Merc lifted ocean like you say spanning from Giletina to Ishigar and said ocean was burned by Ignia . Then we won't see White Mage moving on a boat next chapter. Clearly he lifted water worth of town.

 

[LaGOAT]

Lets even say we go by ur logic @WoWfan if merc is multi continental. And u think 50% merc=50% acno then what Ingeel did to acno is at least multi continental too mostly likely higher cause we ripped off his arm so again ripping acno arm is till a better feat than lifting an “ocean” that didn’t do much to base natsu.

 

[WoWfan]

But that is the thing though, it is something Igneel did not achieve on his own as it was the PoF that aided him in doing this, and even so, he still lost and is not even on Acno’s level in his prime. That is why even though it would be tough, Merc would still be victorious.

KT, you do realize there is plenty of oceans left around the world right? The world of far bigger and this ocean would be small in comparison to fill the gap. And with the amount of water evaporated it would easily cause rain to form rather quickly to fall back to the earth. Boiling Water doesn’t cause it to cease to exist, it is common science.

 

[Axiomus]

Biting off Acnologia's arm was something that Igneel achieved by himself. Even if you say Igneel had power of feelings, which isn't exactly apparent, Acnologia also had power of feelings. Igneel's power of feelings would have been fueled by his love towards humanity whereas Acnologia's power of feelings would have been fueled by his hatred towards dragons.

If you evaporated an entire ocean, you would cause global extinction. The water vapor would create a greenhouse effect that would raise the Earth's temperature by several hundred degrees. The other oceans would boil due to the rise in temperature. Over the next several (think in terms of millions) years, it would be too hot for rain to form. Global extinction to everything except microbes is certain. When it does cool down to the point where rain could form again, it would literally rain for thousands to millions of years. Complex life would be long gone, but if anyone was still alive by then, they would get wrecked by constant flooding and storms.

 

[WoWfan]

Acno absolutely did not have power of feelings, that is not how this works. It is one way, not all ways, it is for the sake of others. Good thing this is a world of magic where things are achievable through simplicity.

 

[Axiomus]

Acno absolutely did not have power of feelings, that is not how this works. It is one way, not all ways, it is for the sake of others. Good thing this is a world of magic where things are achievable through simplicity.

Power of feelings is just turning emotions into magic power. It works with any emotions. Every character has power of feelings. When Invel was talking about how Gray had darkness in his heart like Zeref, that was power of feelings. We even see Zeref convert all his rage and sorrow into power for his final exchange with Natsu. This is literally power of feelings.

Spoiler: Zeref using rage and sorrow to fuel his POF

Acnologia's power of feelings would have been fueled by his hatred towards dragons.

 

[WoWfan]

It is emotions such as bonds, friendship and for the sake of others, not for one self which is definitely what Acnologia was doing. The only way the latter takes effect is with certain spells or Magic’s such as what you mentions, but it is generally just friendship and positive related emotions

 

[Axiomus]

It is emotions such as bonds, friendship and for the sake of others, not for one self which is definitely what Acnologia was doing. The only way the latter takes effect is with certain spells or Magic’s such as what you mentions, but it is generally just friendship and positive related emotions

Power of feelings works with any emotions. It's literally in the name. Negative feelings are feelings too. It's not even clear that Igneel was fighting for "bonds, friendship, or the sake of others" to be honest. He never gave a speech about any of that before he attacked Acnologia. He just said that he wanted to personally kill Acnologia. If there was any PoF, it would have been Igneel's love towards humanity and Acnologia's hatred towards dragons.

In any case, even if you exclude Igneel biting off Acnologia's arm (which is a perfectly legitimate feat), Igneel still outclassed Mercphobia by feats. Igneel still fought Acnologia for 20 minutes. Igneel still managed to bloody up Acnologia with cuts. Igneel still managed to hit Acnologia hard enough to cough blood. All of this still far outclassed Mercphobia's performance. Mercphobia was beaten by Natsu with Ignia's flames in 4 hits, and couldn't even lay a scratch on Natsu. Biting off Acnologia's arm is the final nail in an already airtight coffin.

It does matter because who are you to judge and segregate one thing from the rest of something else that size does matter anywhere else and not here, it is rather presumptuous to think that. It does matter because it is an important feat that sets high standards for any fictional universe in comparative to logical explanation. So by you’re logic, Bluenote’s stronger?

Bluenote's black hole is the size of a baseball. A black hole the size of a baseball would have 4x the mass of the Earth. If Fairy Tail were following real life science, Bluenote's black hole would mess with the planet's orbit and cause global catastrophe. It would be a multi-planetary attack. The fact that this doesn't happen tells us that Hiro Mashima isn't basing anything on science. He's just drawing whatever looks cool. We shouldn't be making ridiculous calcs based on real world science when we can literally see the effects the attacks have on the environment. Just like how Bluenote's blackhole doesn't behave anything like a real black hole that large, Mercphobia lifting the sea and dropping it down on Elmina doesn't behave anything like what would happen if you lifted the pacific ocean and dropped it down on the coastline.

 

[WoWfan]

No it does not, it is stated multiple times that power of feelings is based around positive emotions, primarily bonds and friendship, that is how magic works, especially how it connects nature and spirit too, power from negative emotions are just for Curses. Though it takes many forms, the default setting for main stream magic is bonds, while the One Magic is Love. Igneel was clearly fighting for the sake of others, even humans who dragons once thought of as nothing but food. That would clearly be a qualification of PoF. Acno is acting out of his own self interest, to just destroy, he does not care about anyone but himself, that is not a qualification. Even if Igneel ripping of Acno’s arm is something, Igneel has not shown any feats that would measure up to Merc’s feat though, all he did was just produce large fireballs but that is about it. And Igneel did not hit Acno though, he fell from magic loss from Face. Natsu was already Acno level and Merc was 50% at the time. So there is a huge difference. But nothing Merc can’t handle for Weakened Igneel. Measuring a black hole can be defined not just by size but by mass as well, which would be around the same energy as a nuke. As long as it follows most of the standard means of a black hole like, it cannot be physically interacted, it bends light, warps matter in a spagghetti like fashion, described with infinite gravity, etc.

 

[Axiomus]

No it does not, it is stated multiple times that power of feelings is based around positive emotions, primarily bonds and friendship, that is how magic works, especially how it connects nature and spirit too, power from negative emotions are just for Curses. Though it takes many forms, the default setting for main stream magic is bonds, while the One Magic is Love. Igneel has not shown any feats that would measure up to Merc’s feat though, all he did was just produce large fireballs but that is about it. And Igneel did not hit Acno though, he fell from magic loss from Face. Natsu was already Acno level and Merc was 50% at the time. So there is a huge difference. But nothing Merc can’t handle for Weakened Igneel. Measuring a black hole can be defined not just by size but by mass as well, which would be around the same energy as a nuke. As long as it follows most of the standard means of a black hole like, it cannot be physically interacted, it bends light, warps matter in a spagghetti like fashion, described with infinite gravity, etc.

No it's not. It's not even stated once that power of feelings can only be based around positive feelings. There are examples of people using negative emotions to fuel power of feelings. Besides, Igneel never went on about friendship or bonds or anything like that. He just stated he wanted to kill Acnologia.

Igneel's roar is larger than Mercphobia's roar. Igneel has fought Acnologia for 20 minutes and made Acnologia bleed. He made Acnologia cough up blood too. Igneel also bit off Acnologia's arm. Mercphobia couldn't even scratch Natsu. Mercphobia's water pillars were all tanked by members of team Natsu. Mercphobia's roar was tanked by Natsu. Mercphobia's attempt to capture Natsu in his ocean with a wave failed when Natsu just swam out of it. When Mercphobia finally trapped Natsu with his wavepool, Ignia came and easily swam out of it. Look at the injuries Acnologia accumulated during his fight with Acnologia. At the end of their fight, Acnologia decided to retreat and nurse his wounds as opposed to blow up Tartaros. Whatever Acnologia's original intentions were for blowing up Tartaros (probably to kill the dragon slayers he sensed there), he had to abandon those plans.

Spoiler: Acnologia's condition after having fought Igneel

Look Natsu's condition after having fought Mercphobia, before Lucy calmed him down. Then compare that to Natsu's condition before ever having fought Mercphobia. There is barely a difference in the amount of injuries that Natsu had before and after fighting Mercphobia. This meant that Mercphobia barely did any damage to Natsu. Natsu didn't stop because he was too injured to continue. That's not even something that Mercphobia did. If Lucy hadn't calmed him down, then Natsu would have just kept going. When Natsu is maintaining his dragon force, the dragon scales prevents the flames from burning his arms. Natsu only reason stopped because he realized he was burning his Lucy. If not for that, Natsu would have just kept rampaging until everyone was destroyed.

Spoiler: Natsu's condition after having fought Mercphobia

Spoiler: Natsu's condition right after eating Ignia's flames, before fighting Mercphobia

All of this ultimately leads back to the very simple truth that Igneel gave Acnologia a much harder fight than Mercphobia was able to give Natsu with Ignia's flames. If you believe that Natsu with Ignia's flames is on Acnologia's level, then Igneel simply out performed Mercphobia. Tartaros-arc Igneel would beat the version of Mercphobia that Natsu fought.

A black hole's mass is directly proportional to it's size. You calculate the mass of a black hole from it's size using the Schwarzschild radius. Rg = 2GM/c^2 solves to M = Rg(C^2)/2G. M is mass, C is the speed of light, G is the gravitational constant, and Rg is the Schwarzschildradius. C and G are constants, which we already know. This means if you know the Schwarzchild radius you solve for Mass. And Schwarzschild radius is simply how big the black hole is (where the event horizon is). A black hole with a Schwarzschild radius of 9mm would have the mass of the Earth. A black hole with a Swarzchild radius of 37mm, roughly the size of a baseball, would have the mass of 4 earths. Saying a black hole is similar to a nuke is utterly ridiculous.

 

[WoWfan]

Yes it was, even by Mavis who has a deep understanding how magic works. The only times that negative feelings power magic are those specific Magic’s that are stated to do so, no other magic is capable of this, and thus it is the bonds of friendship and compassion that gives a wizard their strength. Even Sting went ahead and killed his master who even Nastu had to take several hits in. So you don’t have to give a speech to have PoF, it is not required, it is something you feel, like the Force. Igneel’s roar is not the size of the ocean though, that makes it irrelevant. Length of time is not even a difference in the factor if he could not put down Acnologia. Igneel was also in said condition when he fought him too. It does not change that Igneel lost both times, fair and square. And Merc did not have his full power, not in the right mind nor the PoF on his side when Natsu was twice as strong as him and had PoF for some of the time on his side. No it does not, a black hole can be measured by mass or size, one is not necessarily tethered to the other, there is a video that talks about this, a black hole that has either the mass of a coin or the size of a coin which compares both of them and how they are different. Where the one with less mass would evaporate instantly, while Bluenote would sustain it with his magic energy, but anyway, even if it was the other way, it would be clearly unknown in destructive capacity for consistency reasons, it was not overcome by strength or power physically or energy like, but by hax which Gildarts has with his Crush.

 

[Axiomus]

Mavis never said that power of feelings can only be fueled by positive emotions. Emotions, doesn't matter whether it's negative or positive can be used to create magic power.

So what reason do we have to believe that Igneel used PoF? Sting got a rage boost, negative emotion btw, from seeing Lector die. What triggered Igneel's PoF? See, there's not actual reason to assume Igneel had POF. You're just making up excuses so as to downplay Igneel biting of Acnologia's arm.

Mercphobia didn't lift an ocean, and most of his attacks are smaller than Igneel's roar. Fighting someone for 20 minutes and getting beaten in 4 hits is a huge difference. A 20 minute fight is like 2 UFC fighters duking it out for 5 rounds. Getting beaten in 4 shot is a first round humiliation. Yes, Igneel was in the same condition after having fought Acnologia. It was a close fight. Doesn't change the fact Mercphobia couldn't do any damage to Natsu. Mercphobia not having his full power is accounted for by the rules of this thread, as well as his mental condition.

A black hole's mass and size are directly proportional. This is not up for debate. Black holes are created when gravity compresses mass. If the earth was compressed into a black hole, the resulting black hole would be around 9mm in radius. A black hole with a radius of 37mm would have had to been created by compressing a planet 4 times the mass of the Earth. Obviously a black hole the size of a coin would not have the same mass as a coin compressed into a black hole. If you compressed a coin into a black hole, the resulting black hole would be microscopic. A coin sized black hole is compressed from a planet sized object. If Bluenote's black hole behaved anything like a real life blackhole of the same size, the planet would start re-orientating it's orbit around that black hole. The black hole and planet would orbit each other, with the black hole eating away at the planet's mass. Both the planet and the black hole would then orbit the star.

 

[Seven777]

Funny that Sting killing Jiemma was mentioned as PoF, considering it was an act of pure revenge, with Lector already being dead from Sting's point of view. Looks like we can canonically say, by WoW's own admission, that feelings of revenge do indeed grant enormous PoF.