Turn me on to phantoms

Stoicism


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xi0

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Oh no, then I have to talk to people on... raids?? Thats so awkward
Yeah it sucks. People speculate that Niantic thinks it would make regional pokemon less "special" since you could just trade for them or something. You could easily solve that by making them not tradeable like they do when you've used your Special Trade of the day.
 

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Really don't like games that try to force things. I don't like being social with it, can't they just let me be :faint
 

xi0

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Really don't like games that try to force things. I don't like being social with it, can't they just let me be :faint
Yeah fuck that, it's bad enough that I have to leave my house to play it properly....
 

GrySun

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Playing anything lately? Apart from WoW classic.

Last time you played OW?
 

xi0

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Playing anything lately? Apart from WoW classic.

Last time you played OW?
Since August? Not much else, no. Was playing through the Witcher series before then though, almost got to the third games' DLC but ran out of time before Classic launched.

During the role queue beta season, I think. But that was just briefly considering it was only 15 games. Didn't really play before or after I did placements.

What about you? I think I saw you playing yourself.
 

GrySun

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Since August? Not much else, no. Was playing through the Witcher series before then though, almost got to the third games' DLC but ran out of time before Classic launched.

During the role queue beta season, I think. But that was just briefly considering it was only 15 games. Didn't really play before or after I did placements.

What about you? I think I saw you playing yourself.
How fun is classic? Was thinking of playing it with some friends, though not sure if it‘s a good idea for the more casual ones of the group. Is it mainly something for fans who want to relive the past and the current version is better?

15 games are a lot though. Had any thoughts on 2-2-2 OW?

I‘m playing OW often these days, though it‘s being much worse ever since role queue. Worse teammates in general, less flexibility, and 10 mins queue times.
 

xi0

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How fun is classic? Was thinking of playing it with some friends, though not sure if it‘s a good idea for the more casual ones of the group. Is it mainly something for fans who want to relive the past and the current version is better?

15 games are a lot though. Had any thoughts on 2-2-2 OW?

I‘m playing OW often these days, though it‘s being much worse ever since role queue. Worse teammates in general, less flexibility, and 10 mins queue times.
It's pretty fun. I didn't have much experience with the game back all those years ago, mainly only tried it over friends house, etc. It definitely feels like more of an MMORPG than the game is in it's recent state. It's kept my interest for about a month now, so the sub seemed worth it. Lawl went back to retail but he might try to catch up to us again. But myself, Haku, and Tina are 40+ now, so I guess the real grind begins soon.

Well, it's more than old placements, but was only a couple of days of playing. The change should have been made well over a year ago. But it's just like Blizzard to delay needed changes as long as possible until the game has already been damaged. Pretty clear they only finally did it because less people were watching the snoozefest that is OWL.

I didn't play much but it didn't feel worse overall to me. Maybe I didn't feel the less flexibility aspect because I already experienced the same kind of system in league. Though, I guess you aren't locked out of picking characters in that. That's probably the biggest issue the system has. But I'm not sure how you enforce role picking without doing it, as well as metas that completely ignore DPS or Tanks. And I personally don't care about queue times if I get the role I want... but I guess it's probably worse for you since I'm guessing you main DPS.
 

GrySun

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It's pretty fun. I didn't have much experience with the game back all those years ago, mainly only tried it over friends house, etc. It definitely feels like more of an MMORPG than the game is in it's recent state. It's kept my interest for about a month now, so the sub seemed worth it. Lawl went back to retail but he might try to catch up to us again. But myself, Haku, and Tina are 40+ now, so I guess the real grind begins soon.

Well, it's more than old placements, but was only a couple of days of playing. The change should have been made well over a year ago. But it's just like Blizzard to delay needed changes as long as possible until the game has already been damaged. Pretty clear they only finally did it because less people were watching the snoozefest that is OWL.

I didn't play much but it didn't feel worse overall to me. Maybe I didn't feel the less flexibility aspect because I already experienced the same kind of system in league. Though, I guess you aren't locked out of picking characters in that. That's probably the biggest issue the system has. But I'm not sure how you enforce role picking without doing it, as well as metas that completely ignore DPS or Tanks. And I personally don't care about queue times if I get the role I want... but I guess it's probably worse for you since I'm guessing you main DPS.
More an MMORPG in what sense? Which element/s of that did the game lose with later updates? Is it mainly the difficulty of getting more levels? Or the smaller scale(though I‘m sure even the classic version is pretty large in content). Is the grind super slow at some point to the point of farming mobs for long time/doing repeatable quests?

I think if they balanced the game properly they could avoid things like goats being broken to the point all OWL teams run only that, rather than force 2 of each role. I definitely wouldn‘t say role queue is something the game needed ever, long ago or now. The most interesting part of the game was how you could switch to anything at any time, while now you‘re stuck on the role you selected with no way of getting a 3rd tank, heal or dps which would be necessary in cases when someone in the team is underperforming their role.

I can also do other things in the meantime while it‘s searching a game, just that I can play less games total in the same timeframe of ~2 hours which makes grinding for SR much more tedious and feel not worth it.
I do main DPS but before the role queue I‘d fill and switch roles as needed(which is almost every game), like a 3rd tank or 3rd heal(or 3rd dps). Things like that definitely helped turn many games around, now you‘re more at the mercy of your teammates performing well than ever before.
 

xi0

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More an MMORPG in what sense? Which element/s of that did the game lose with later updates? Is it mainly the difficulty of getting more levels? Or the smaller scale(though I‘m sure even the classic version is pretty large in content). Is the grind super slow at some point to the point of farming mobs for long time/doing repeatable quests?

I think if they balanced the game properly they could avoid things like goats being broken to the point all OWL teams run only that, rather than force 2 of each role. I definitely wouldn‘t say role queue is something the game needed ever, long ago or now. The most interesting part of the game was how you could switch to anything at any time, while now you‘re stuck on the role you selected with no way of getting a 3rd tank, heal or dps which would be necessary in cases when someone in the team is underperforming their role.

I can also do other things in the meantime while it‘s searching a game, just that I can play less games total in the same timeframe of ~2 hours which makes grinding for SR much more tedious and feel not worth it.
I do main DPS but before the role queue I‘d fill and switch roles as needed(which is almost every game), like a 3rd tank or 3rd heal(or 3rd dps). Things like that definitely helped turn many games around, now you‘re more at the mercy of your teammates performing well than ever before.
- The world is LARGER due to the difficulty of obtaining a mount and there being no flying and you having to experience most of it while leveling. You actually see people out in the world and have to cooperate with them, the enemy faction as well. In the current WoW, world pvp is kind of nonexistent, it's all instanced. The two original continents in WoW are actually larger than what has been added in expansions. There's no flying and less flightpoints compared to the current version of the game, so the world just feels more daunting overall.

- The endgame difficulty of Classic is a joke compared to the hardest content in modern WoW, but the difficulty is more evenly spaced out. Leveling is PART of the game and is challenging. It's also rewarding and the character progression aspect is more satisfying due to no Diablo-style loot with random stats that results in an seemingly endless grind that only exists to keep people subscribed. In modern WoW leveling is mostly an obstacle to get people to the endgame and is too brief of an experience. Outside of story-telling opportunities is provides, it doesn't offer much.

- The server community is constant, due to there being no cross-server play. You meet people out in the world and can see them several days down the line. People have reputations for being good/nice players, or being griefing shitheads. The modern game is too impersonal, with very few reasons to be social and create relationships in-game.

Yeah, we're nearing the mid 40s, which is considered the true halfway point of leveling as far as XP goes. We'll also likely run out of quests to do towards the upper 50s too... just vanilla things, I guess. :lmao



I don't think Blizzard knows how to balance OW, or much of anything. They're too slow to act. I understand your point in it making the game to narrow though, and that was something I sort of worried about. I supposed 3-3 was never super popular outside of OWL and High SR games anyways... but I guess they care about it being boring to watch for people in OWL. I will say that I think 2-2-2 lock should make the game easier to balance though. That way we don't see Tanks and Healers nerfed due to OWL 3-3 play while 95% of the playerbase plays in games where Tanks can't protect shit since they die in a blink of an eye. :lmao

Yeah I guess you might be right about what you mentioned. Like I said, my experience with it was only a couple days and it wasn't really worse than it was beforehand. I guess there are positives and negatives to both versions of the game perhaps. Hopefully there can be further improvements to it to make it feel less constricting... or a newer, more interesting pvp game comes out. :grumble
 

GrySun

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- The world is LARGER due to the difficulty of obtaining a mount and there being no flying and you having to experience most of it while leveling. You actually see people out in the world and have to cooperate with them, the enemy faction as well. In the current WoW, world pvp is kind of nonexistent, it's all instanced. The two original continents in WoW are actually larger than what has been added in expansions. There's no flying and less flightpoints compared to the current version of the game, so the world just feels more daunting overall.

- The endgame difficulty of Classic is a joke compared to the hardest content in modern WoW, but the difficulty is more evenly spaced out. Leveling is PART of the game and is challenging. It's also rewarding and the character progression aspect is more satisfying due to no Diablo-style loot with random stats that results in an seemingly endless grind that only exists to keep people subscribed. In modern WoW leveling is mostly an obstacle to get people to the endgame and is too brief of an experience. Outside of story-telling opportunities is provides, it doesn't offer much.

- The server community is constant, due to there being no cross-server play. You meet people out in the world and can see them several days down the line. People have reputations for being good/nice players, or being griefing shitheads. The modern game is too impersonal, with very few reasons to be social and create relationships in-game.

Yeah, we're nearing the mid 40s, which is considered the true halfway point of leveling as far as XP goes. We'll also likely run out of quests to do towards the upper 50s too... just vanilla things, I guess. :lmao



I don't think Blizzard knows how to balance OW, or much of anything. They're too slow to act. I understand your point in it making the game to narrow though, and that was something I sort of worried about. I supposed 3-3 was never super popular outside of OWL and High SR games anyways... but I guess they care about it being boring to watch for people in OWL. I will say that I think 2-2-2 lock should make the game easier to balance though. That way we don't see Tanks and Healers nerfed due to OWL 3-3 play while 95% of the playerbase plays in games where Tanks can't protect shit since they die in a blink of an eye. :lmao

Yeah I guess you might be right about what you mentioned. Like I said, my experience with it was only a couple days and it wasn't really worse than it was beforehand. I guess there are positives and negatives to both versions of the game perhaps. Hopefully there can be further improvements to it to make it feel less constricting... or a newer, more interesting pvp game comes out. :grumble
That was pretty informative, thanks. Do you think it‘ll last long or will people eventually switch back to the normal WoW version? Is it just „in“ because of nostalgia, or will it be it‘s own stable MMO?
Kinda confused at what Blizzard is pulling here with Classic, if it takes away from their main version‘s playerbase and if all updates and expansions will be coming to that one and not the Classic(since it‘s supposed to just be like it is without further changes no?). Do they just have 2 separate WoWs running? Is there a value in that for them? Apart from possibly returning players that quit the current version.

You‘re right that 2-2-2 should be easier to balance, but the problem of them being too slow isn‘t fixed by this. They had a beta testing for 2 weeks(the one you played) but the „live“ version that went in at the start of this month is an unchanged version of just that beta. No changes to anything, which makes me wonder what the point of the beta even was. Double shield is by far the best tank comp, only a handful dps are viable against that. I‘ve never seen another game have such a 1-meta like in OW, in the sense that there is one composition that‘s better than all others in every patch.

But there recently were some PTR changes, so they‘re slowly starting to do something.
 

xi0

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That was pretty informative, thanks. Do you think it‘ll last long or will people eventually switch back to the normal WoW version? Is it just „in“ because of nostalgia, or will it be it‘s own stable MMO?
Kinda confused at what Blizzard is pulling here with Classic, if it takes away from their main version‘s playerbase and if all updates and expansions will be coming to that one and not the Classic(since it‘s supposed to just be like it is without further changes no?). Do they just have 2 separate WoWs running? Is there a value in that for them? Apart from possibly returning players that quit the current version.

You‘re right that 2-2-2 should be easier to balance, but the problem of them being too slow isn‘t fixed by this. They had a beta testing for 2 weeks(the one you played) but the „live“ version that went in at the start of this month is an unchanged version of just that beta. No changes to anything, which makes me wonder what the point of the beta even was. Double shield is by far the best tank comp, only a handful dps are viable against that. I‘ve never seen another game have such a 1-meta like in OW, in the sense that there is one composition that‘s better than all others in every patch.

But there recently were some PTR changes, so they‘re slowly starting to do something.
They're adding content to Classic in phases, so there will be periodic updates to it. The real question is whether they just continue with TBC and Wrath, or if they try to do something like Classic+ where new content is added using the older design philosophy. There's no question they've made a shitload of money in subs due to the hype. Is it about nostalgia? I'm sure for many it might be, but as an example, Tina and Haku never played it and they're playing it now over BFA. My experience with vanilla wow wasn't very extensive either, and I'm doing the same. It would seem that most people playing WoW are playing Classic. That can't only be about nostalgia. I think there's value for them, as well as players, because you only have to sub once to play both. You can cross-promote, and they're spacing things out so downtime in one version means more content in the other usually.

Of course the new, pretty stuff will continue to be added with new expansions. And generally I've always found new expansions to be fun for a month or two, so they're usually worth playing. The experience may just not be as fulfilling though, not sure. Everybody is different.


Yeah I think Tina and me played Sigma+Orisa in placements. Seems pretty fucking boring probably. The meta issues is due to the limited amount of heroes IMO. If they had double or triple the amount, there might be more of a mystery regarding what can be good or not.

What are the PTR changes? Just the hero changes?
 

GrySun

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Oh it is pretty boring, but it's what the game currently is. Goats was pretty strong but at least more fun than the double shields game now. And not sure if with 31 they can't make even half of it viable then having 50 in 10 years from now won't have that many viable ones either.

Just some buffs and nerfs across the ground. Nothing specific for 2-2-2 sadly.. Just the usual blizzard way of buffing what's unpicked and nerfing what's picked. At least dive tank nerfs could influence the meta maybe, so that they can compete with Orisa Sigma. But not sure when it's put onto the main game.
 

xi0

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Oh it is pretty boring, but it's what the game currently is. Goats was pretty strong but at least more fun than the double shields game now. And not sure if with 31 they can't make even half of it viable then having 50 in 10 years from now won't have that many viable ones either.

Just some buffs and nerfs across the ground. Nothing specific for 2-2-2 sadly.. Just the usual blizzard way of buffing what's unpicked and nerfing what's picked. At least dive tank nerfs could influence the meta maybe, so that they can compete with Orisa Sigma. But not sure when it's put onto the main game.
I don't see it as being about not enough heroes being viable. A lot of times, things that are shunned for not being "viable" are treated that way because they don't fit into the cookie-cutter model everyone thinks they need to play. The issue is the lack of choices, simply because with more options the rock-paper-scissors game is more expanded. If something counters a comp hardcore but is lackluster in other situations, it doesn't even need balance changes. Right now Blizz is too fixated on changing numbers for Hero X-Y-Z, when in reality the game would be much better served having more options. Easier said than done of course, but it's what the game needs IMO. The speculation I saw some time ago about them ratcheting up production in the hero department seems to have been incorrect, I guess.

Yeah I think I saw something mentioning a hero "remaster" patch or something. I don't really see that fixing the game's issues. If balance was purely a numbers issue, you would have thought it would be better right now. Dunno.
 

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I wonder if you have reference for me about sun/water needs, stratification, etc on these species:
1. red climbing rose
2. forget me not
3. menzie's baby blue eyes

:worrybunny
thank you in advance!
 

GrySun

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Why does pressing on this thread put me into a nanatsu thread?
 

xi0

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Why does pressing on this thread put me into a nanatsu thread?
Uhhh, what? Doesn't do that for me.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I wonder if you have reference for me about sun/water needs, stratification, etc on these species:
1. red climbing rose
2. forget me not
3. menzie's baby blue eyes

:worrybunny
thank you in advance!
Roses need a lot of sun but afternoon shade. They also like consistent moisture, but I would avoid watering them if it's not going to be a sunny day.

I'm not sure about baby blue eyes tbh. They're a wildflower, but seem to be a native west coast thing. Not sure how ideal they would be for where you live.

The problem with Forget me nots is that certain kinds can take over gardens really quickly and are really difficult to get rid of if you want to start over.
 

GrySun

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Uhhh, what? Doesn't do that for me.
Now it's fixed. Was weird, always had the black text of unread messages even if all was read, and redirected to another thread.
 

xi0

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Now it's fixed. Was weird, always had the black text of unread messages even if all was read, and redirected to another thread.
Did this happen elsewhere?

The NnT post might have had the same ID as a post I made here when the forum was closed. Our backup we used was from before then. It sharing an ID with a post from the NnT section makes sense since it's one of the most active sections and might have had one of the first posts when the forum was reopened.
 

GrySun

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Did this happen elsewhere?

The NnT post might have had the same ID as a post I made here when the forum was closed. Our backup we used was from before then. It sharing an ID with a post from the NnT section makes sense since it's one of the most active sections and might have had one of the first posts when the forum was reopened.
No only this thread, though haven‘t opened many threads since it got back online. Though was a funny forum threads interaction, in a way.
 
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