Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[savethecat]

What are the reasons for S8 not being well received and getting much hate

Damn near every new Jump series gets a mixed reception on forums and social media.(there are only a SMALL FEW of exception, like SxF and Neverland)
With a ton of ppl saying “It’s so good! I hope this doesn’t get axed”.
Another ton of ppl saying “this is trash. Definitely getting axed”
And a bunch of neutral people that usually say “eh, I don’t hate it but probably an axe”

Spoiler

Then once ppl see that the series is either
A. Getting placed high on the TOC
B. Has great first week sales for Volume 1.
C. Sales steadily increase every volume

Everyone starts pretending like they knew the series was going to be “The Next Big Thing” from day one, and the initial mixed reactions get swept under the rug, and we pretend the series was acclaimed from chapter 1

S8 is Kishimoto’s big Naruto follow up though, so the reactions to it are on a far bigger scale than the typical new series from random new comer, or someone who’s yet to achieve huge success.

 

[Samael Morningstar]

Damn near every new Jump series gets a mixed reception on forums and social media.(there are only a SMALL FEW of exception, like SxF and Neverland)
With a ton of ppl saying “It’s so good! I hope this doesn’t get axed”.
Another ton of ppl saying “this is trash. Definitely getting axed”
And a bunch of neutral people that usually say “eh, I don’t hate it but probably an axe”

Spoiler

Then once ppl see that the series is either
A. Getting placed high on the TOC
B. Has great first week sales for Volume 1.
C. Sales steadily increase every volume

Everyone starts pretending like they knew the series was going to be “The Next Big Thing” from day one, and the initial mixed reactions get swept under the rug, and we pretend the series was acclaimed from chapter 1

S8 is Kishimoto’s big Naruto follow up though, so the reactions to it are on a far bigger scale than the typical new series from random new comer, or someone who’s yet to achieve huge success.

In the recent interview kishimoto did say that since day one he wanted to do samurai 8 stuff in naruto but the editors rejected it.
At naruto's prime time jump was requesting kishimoto to continue naruto after ch 700 but kishimoto rejected because he from the very beginning wanted to do Samurai 8 so yes if S8 does not do well it will be a massive disappointment for kishimoto as if in the same time he drew naruto he would have remained in the top 3 as always.
But I would still look forward for this as kishimoto is a star Wars fan and him doing S8 I'm really hoping bigger things in future

 

[101nemesis]

Then the mangaka missed his biggest opportunity to draw in fans because he failed to make the story interesting from the beginning.

Geez, I wonder how Bleach and DBZ got super popular several arcs in then. Hmmmmm

 

[savethecat]

In the recent interview kishimoto did say that since day one he wanted to do samurai 8 stuff in naruto but the editors rejected it.
At naruto's prime time jump was requesting kishimoto to continue naruto after ch 700 but kishimoto rejected because he from the very beginning wanted to do Samurai 8 so yes if S8 does not do well it will be a massive disappointment for kishimoto as if in the same time he drew naruto he would have remained in the top 3 as always.
But I would still look forward for this as kishimoto is a star Wars fan and him doing S8 I'm really hoping bigger things in future

True. But I’m more so speaking to the reception people on Forums.

If S8 ends up selling well 1st Volume, we’ll probably start seeing higher placements on the TOC.
If within the next few months we start seeing that S8 is at least a 100K+ seller, and is clearly the “new big thing” at Jump, you’re also going to see a bunch of ppl go from saying
“S8 is a flop. Shit series”, to saying “you know.... I’ve been reading the past few chapters of S8, and it’s actually be pretty good lately.”
And a bunch of ppl who weren’t reading to begin saying “need to catch up to S8”.

Adult Shonen fans are picky and hyper critical until they see something is actually gaining a fanbase and they don’t want to be left off the hype train

 

[Samael Morningstar]

If hachimaru becomes a very good guy and then suddenly becomes evil as MC under certain circumstances like that of star wars that will definitely blow up its popularity still I don't think it will be as simple it will have much more than that after all its kishimoto behind

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 4, 2019, Original Post Date: Oct 4, 2019 ---

As much as I know of Japanese people they ain't much interested in sci fi mangas that much but even knowing so Kishimoto made S8 clearly meaning he has something really big for Samurai 8

 

[NeeNeen]

Geez, I wonder how Bleach and DBZ got super popular several arcs in then. Hmmmmm

I said it was his biggest opportunity, not his only opportunity.

But if I may ask, what makes you so certain that the people who liked those arcs thought the first chapter of Bleach/Dragon Ball was uninteresting? Were those series receiving a lot of hate in the beginning? Because drawing in new fans and regaining readers that dropped the series are two very different things. It seems more likely to me that those two series started growing in popularity because more people learned about their existence, not because all their previous dislikers suddenly decided to give them another try.

 

[sakuratt91]

From bookstore employee thread


http://swallow.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/livejupiter/1570135436/

I don't understand Jump. They can push Samurai 8 alot if they want but why they have to sacrifice Kimetsu and Spy Family? They will make neutral fans hate Samurai 8 before reading it.

 

[Leoat12]

In the recent interview kishimoto did say that since day one he wanted to do samurai 8 stuff in naruto but the editors rejected it.
At naruto's prime time jump was requesting kishimoto to continue naruto after ch 700 but kishimoto rejected because he from the very beginning wanted to do Samurai 8 so yes if S8 does not do well it will be a massive disappointment for kishimoto as if in the same time he drew naruto he would have remained in the top 3 as always.
But I would still look forward for this as kishimoto is a star Wars fan and him doing S8 I'm really hoping bigger things in future

The editor was not the one people were praising some pages ago and is now Jump SQ editor in Chief? He practically saved Naruto then.

True. But I’m more so speaking to the reception people on Forums.

If S8 ends up selling well 1st Volume, we’ll probably start seeing higher placements on the TOC.
If within the next few months we start seeing that S8 is at least a 100K+ seller, and is clearly the “new big thing” at Jump, you’re also going to see a bunch of ppl go from saying
“S8 is a flop. Shit series”, to saying “you know.... I’ve been reading the past few chapters of S8, and it’s actually be pretty good lately.”
And a bunch of ppl who weren’t reading to begin saying “need to catch up to S8”.

Adult Shonen fans are picky and hyper critical until they see something is actually gaining a fanbase and they don’t want to be left off the hype train

Are you sure you are not describing kid fans? Adults tends to read more edgy series, things nobody knows about and on the contrary, are critical to what is popular and anything on Jump is popular, period.

 

[animeexpert]

Geez, I wonder how Bleach and DBZ got super popular several arcs in then. Hmmmmm

But bleach and Dbz were already good in the begin unlike bc and some for kimetsu

 

[OtterBrigade]

I don't understand Jump. They can push Samurai 8 alot if they want but why they have to sacrifice Kimetsu and Spy Family? They will make neutral fans hate Samurai 8 before reading it.

Would the general public even know they're doing that? Not everyone is reading 5ch before heading to the bookstore. They're probably hoping people go for Demon Slayer and Spy x Family, see they're sold out and go "I might as well buy Samurai 8 then". I doubt that actually happens and they just go buy the volumes off Amazon and Shueisha cut the profit from some bookstore though.

 

[savethecat]

The editor was not the one people were praising some pages ago and is now Jump SQ editor in Chief? He practically saved Naruto then.

Are you sure you are not describing kid fans? Adults tends to read more edgy series, things nobody knows about and on the contrary, are critical to what is popular and anything on Jump is popular, period.

I’ve seen this mentality actually happen on this forum and this thread specifically multiple times for certain series.
And, with not just manga, but media in general I’ve seen this mentality happen with adults as well.

I can’t count how many times a new song came out and I’ve seen coworkers, classmates and friends shout “this song is soooo garbage”:
*song hits #1 on the Billboard”

Same People: “you know.... the song is actually kind of growing on me now”

 

[Samael Morningstar]

The editor was not the one people were praising some pages ago and is now Jump SQ editor in Chief? He practically saved Naruto then.

Are you sure you are not describing kid fans? Adults tends to read more edgy series, things nobody knows about and on the contrary, are critical to what is popular and anything on Jump is popular, period.

Who knows naruto could have been a lot better without him , we never know as I just said kishimoto has something big in his mind for S8 which he couldn't do with naruto

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 4, 2019, Original Post Date: Oct 4, 2019 ---

You people are underestimating Kishimoto, he has the experience of a super successful manga and has a idea for something new , clearly he'll make some awesome stuff with S8 which people in future will be full of praises.

 

[Leoat12]

I’ve seen this mentality actually happen on this forum and this thread specifically multiple times for certain series.
And, with not just manga, but media in general I’ve seen this mentality happen with adults as well.

I can’t count how many times a new song came out and I’ve seen coworkers, classmates and friends shout “this song is soooo garbage”:
*song hits #1 on the Billboard”

Same People: “you know.... the song is actually kind of growing on me now”

You don't know the age of people here who knows whether they are adults physically or mentally.
I personally am not that influenceable.

Who knows naruto could have been a lot better without him , we never know as I just said kishimoto has something big in his mind for S8 which he couldn't do with naruto

Better than it was? Naruto begining was epic.

 

[Samael Morningstar]

You don't know the age of people here who knows whether they are adults physically or mentally.
I personally am not that influenceable.

Better than it was? Naruto begining was epic.

Could have been legendary

 

[animeexpert]

Who knows naruto could have been a lot better without him , we never know as I just said kishimoto has something big in his mind for S8 which he couldn't do with naruto

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 4, 2019, Original Post Date: Oct 4, 2019 ---

You people are underestimating Kishimoto, he has the experience of a super successful manga and has a idea for something new , clearly he'll make some awesome stuff with S8 which people in future will be full of praises.

Call me when that happends

 

[Kharthas]

Who knows naruto could have been a lot better without him , we never know as I just said kishimoto has something big in his mind for S8 which he couldn't do with naruto
You people are underestimating Kishimoto, he has the experience of a super successful manga and has a idea for something new , clearly he'll make some awesome stuff with S8 which people in future will be full of praises.

If the recent list of ideas put forward by the editor is correct, then I think he was hugely responsible for Naruto's early success (especially the Zabuza arc).
Not saying that Samurai 8 won't succeed, but many veteran authors fail to replicate their earlier success to any degree (most recently we have Tadatoshi Fujimaki (Kuroko Basket -> RxL), Ryūhei Tamura (Beelzebulb ->Hungry Marie), and Hiroshi Shiibashi(Nurarihyon' -> Kamio Yui)). It's even harder when your previous work is one of the legendary big 3.

 

[jhin]

The editor was not the one people were praising some pages ago and is now Jump SQ editor in Chief? He practically saved Naruto then.

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editor asking to change is common to every manga when it comes to naruto editor asking to change like cutting exposition and 3rd hokage being animal character and he asked to introduce more characters in chunin exams but we never know what it could be if they went with kishi ideas. the guy who hates s8 every time said editor saved naruto with exposition and animal characters and now kishi doing s8 with same rejected ideas because of his name like doing exposition and having Dharuma as an animal character and but those are different things. naruto has animal characters like Orochimaru actually looked like a snake guy and Kisame and Sasori for most looked like a scorpion until his reveal. when people complaining about exposition in samurai 8 may have forgotten it sci-fi it has to explain everything from world to battle mechanics but with other series like naruto they can do shit because of chakra and mha has quirks which said a baby born with superpowers and every got power and bc is just magic so all these have magic component that is unique to their world which can be explained later but that different for s8 because of sci-fi which should be explained trough science without involvement of magic component and s8 never really has exposition more than 2 to 3 pages. as much good things that came to naruto due to editor choice but it also had minus points kishi had to introduce many characters for chunin exams in worked for chunin exams but after than most side characters left out and fans were also not happy with world-building even if editor can ask for changes or gives of idea at the end of the of day kishi had to write it. just a few days ago people in his forum taking how editor of kny wanted changes in mc design and he got scar and same thing with deku design. you saw the final output of naruto but if they went kishi plans series would have been different but we cant tell if it would be bad it could go either way.

 

[MangAniMY]

 

[jhin]

If the recent list of ideas put forward by the editor is correct, then I think he was hugely responsible for Naruto's early success (especially the Zabuza arc).
Not saying that Samurai 8 won't succeed, but many veteran authors fail to replicate their earlier success to any degree (most recently we have Tadatoshi Fujimaki (Kuroko Basket -> RxL), Ryūhei Tamura (Beelzebulb ->Hungry Marie), and Hiroshi Shiibashi(Nurarihyon' -> Kamio Yui)). It's even harder when your previous work is one of the legendary big 3.

the zebusa arc was planned by Kishi to showcase Kakashi strength, not the editor. the editor wanted to change the initial name of villian which was Momotaro and Kishi changed it to zabusa. so now you guys even taking naruto success from kishi now.

 

[Caiops]

From bookstore employee thread


http://swallow.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/livejupiter/1570135436/

Thats strange.

Kimetsu print numbers should be much bigger than Samurai 8