Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Koni]

If I can offer my perspective:

Like, it's certainly no coincidence that some of the biggest anime/manga titles out there are Weekly Shonen Jump properties, been that way for a long time and it'll continue to be that way, if HeroAca and Yaiba are of any indication. (I'd say Neverland, but it's not as mainstream and more importantly, it'll be gone soon.) This is due to Jump's absolutely fierce environment, where manga that pull sales other magazines would consider decent just won't do for Jump. Even veterans aren't completely exempt from this, as we have seen before, and in many cases, that's a good thing.

For a comparison, Magazine's best selling manga (5toubun) is written by a newbie, meanwhile veterans such as Hiro Mashima, Atsushi Okubo, and Shinobu Ohtaka all have new manga that are merely selling decently enough to survive despite their pedigree. Perhaps anime adaptations might change this, but perhaps not (look at Fire Force, with its backlogs probably doing as well as Dr. Stone.)

At the same time, though, Jump's running into a situation where they essentially have 4 dead series walking, and a year from now, they'll lose Neverland, We Never Learn, and possibly even Yuuna and Demon Slayer. They're going to need to find some hits really soon, and here comes Kishimoto, who wrote one of Jump's biggest selling manga period, one that profits them even now. He really is a special case, as most other veterans haven't written manga that sells 250 million copies. He's a big name worldwide (hell, Viz already announced that they're bringing Samurai 8 volumes to the West). That has got to count for something, at least, especially now that manga aren't selling as much as they used to.

All in all, I think WSJ is just really hoping for a big success, since he is a huge name and I think they are respecting that by giving his manga a promotion I haven't really seen with any other Jump manga. It's just my take though, if there's anything that you take issue with, lemme know.

 

[101nemesis]

Again, what do you want Shueisha to do? Basically give Kishi free reign to do what he wants regardless of what readers think of it?

I've been very clear actually. People here are complaining him getting special treatment was wrong.
I'm saying him getting special treatment for the first 20-30 chapters of his return and for the launch of the initial volumes is NOT wrong. It's expected of WSJ to do that and would be disrespectful if they didn't do that. That's all. I'm defending WSJ and Kishimoto from such comments.

If the series is a dud, then I'll join you all and criticize WSJ if they keep pushing it despite it being a dud now. We are very close to finding out if its a dud or not. But we don't know that yet.

 

[Leoat12]

To me it's the opposite. If Jump is willing to cancel Kishimoto's manga because it performs badly, it sends the message that they treat a series by its own merit and not by the name behind it. If I were a prospective author, I would find encouragement in the fact that my manga had a fair chance going up against something made by a veteran big shot.

There are other ways to show respect to a veteran author besides keeping his series alive beyond expiration date. Giving him more creativity freedom and less editorial interference is an example.

Perfect, this is how I feel as well.

 

[101nemesis]

It's just my take though, if there's anything that you take issue with, lemme know.

Damn man, you're way too kind. I'm gonna use your energy and bow out of this topic

 

[Rain Spectre]

If I can offer my perspective:

Like, it's certainly no coincidence that some of the biggest anime/manga titles out there are Weekly Shonen Jump properties, been that way for a long time and it'll continue to be that way, if HeroAca and Yaiba are of any indication. (I'd say Neverland, but it's not as mainstream and more importantly, it'll be gone soon.) This is due to Jump's absolutely fierce environment, where manga that pull sales other magazines would consider decent just won't do for Jump. Even veterans aren't completely exempt from this, as we have seen before, and in many cases, that's a good thing.

For a comparison, Magazine's best selling manga (5toubun) is written by a newbie, meanwhile veterans such as Hiro Mashima, Atsushi Okubo, and Shinobu Ohtaka all have new manga that are merely selling decently enough to survive despite their pedigree. Perhaps anime adaptations might change this, but perhaps not (look at Fire Force, with its backlogs probably doing as well as Dr. Stone.)

At the same time, though, Jump's running into a situation where they essentially have 4 dead series walking, and a year from now, they'll lose Neverland, We Never Learn, and possibly even Yuuna and Demon Slayer. They're going to need to find some hits really soon, and here comes Kishimoto, who wrote one of Jump's biggest selling manga period, one that profits them even now. He really is a special case, as most other veterans haven't written manga that sells 250 million copies. He's a big name worldwide (hell, Viz already announced that they're bringing Samurai 8 volumes to the West). That has got to count for something, at least, especially now that manga aren't selling as much as they used to.

All in all, I think WSJ is just really hoping for a big success, since he is a huge name and I think they are respecting that by giving his manga a promotion I haven't really seen with any other Jump manga. It's just my take though, if there's anything that you take issue with, lemme know.

Koni Used Sensible Talk Regarding Debate!

It was Super Effective!

In all seriousness, good post.

 

[101nemesis]

Koni Used Sensible Talk Regarding Debate!

It was Super Effective!

In all seriousness, good post.

I'd have gone with Talk-no-jutsu. Because we are talking about Kishimoto and Naruto. Felt like a lost opportunity there, Rain.

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

Gotta hand it to you about how you so easily ignored my examples of how veterans are respected and treated in various industries based what they've accomplished across their careers because that negates your argument.
But sure, go ahead and fixate on Roger Federer and his kid apparently, which doesn't even make sense.

Yeah, I'm done with this topic.
Your comment is hilarious. If you think a 15 year old veteran deserves the same treatment as a newbie.
Let me know how you feel 15 years from now when you've settled down in a company for many years, worked day and night, made sacrifices, hardly saw your family or spent time with them only to be told that you'll get the same treatment as someone who joined yesterday. Let me know if you'll feel respected enough then.

Leoat filling Sharkbait shoes pretty nice lol

Fumetsu and Orient aren't being kept alive thanks to "respect", they simply are performing good enough to not be in danger at WSM. There are plenty of series performing worse than them that can bite the dust before either of them are in danger. WSM seems to have slowed down the flow of new releases in the recent months to adjust to the recent stability of the magazine, but it's not like those series are receiving special treatments.

"Respect" didn't spare Asaki Masashi from getting Black Out axed at just 4 volumes despite coming from the successes of Shibatora and Psychometrer Eiji. Yamamoto Kazuki despite having a 62 volume run with God Hand Teru still got Takara no Zen axed at 3 volumes. This Man still had to wrap up at 3 volumes even with Megumi Kouji's history with Bloody Monday. Makoto Raiku despite being a star imported from Sunday wasn't immune to Vector Ball getting axed, nor were Nakayama (Urataro) and Kodaka (Danganrompa)'s Gamblers' Paradise.

Now if we are talking about Daiku no Hatou in Sunday it's a difference story but I don't think anyone wants to see that happening in any magazine.

But this is exactly my point, i'm not saying that a manga like Kamio Yui selling 5k copies should stay forever on Shonen Jump or be treated superior because Shiibashi created Nurarihyon no Mago, i'm talking about how Shonen Jump treats every veteran like a nobody despite selling decent or not (by industry standards).

The point of the comparison and examples is to show that despite these mangas selling MUCH less than their previous big hits, Magazine has enough respect and a loyalty with their authors to just not throw them away in the trash like Shonen Jump would do because it's not selling to their "standards" despite not selling bad.

Sunday has some serious cases of charity tbh kkkkkk

 

[Leoat12]

Well, they hope for a big success in any series they publish, but in the end what I'm trying to say is most of the readers don't buy series or stay reading series because of advertisement, they continue reading because the series is good and people around them says it is good. Word of mouth is still the most powerful advertisement. When it comes to Shonen Jump this kind of push is even less effective in my opinion. I don't think there is any manga reader in Japan right now who doesn't know Samurai 8 existence, it will not be some booklets that will make some big effect. That said, if the volumes don't sell well even after that, then the readers will give a clear message. I think it is already clear by where it is positioned in the magazine, but the sales will make it final.

 

[TxxT]

Just posting because... https://honto.jp/ranking/gr/bestseller_1101_1201_011_029004000000.html
Honto Daily Rankings 10/4

1. One Piece #94
2. Kimetsu no Yaiba #17
3. The Promised Neverland #16
4. Spy x Family #2
5. Jujutsu Kaisen #7
6. Koyoharu Gotoge Short Story Collection
8. Shokugeki no Soma #36
9. Black Clover #22
11. Boruto #10
12. Chainsawman#4
20. Yuuna #18
21. Hinomaru Sumo #27
43. Samurai 8 #1
57. Samurai 8 #2

 

[Rain Spectre]

But this is exactly my point, i'm not saying that a manga like Kamio Yui selling 5k copies should stay forever on Shonen Jump or be treated superior because Shiibashi created Nurarihyon no Mago, i'm talking about how Shonen Jump treats every veteran like a nobody despite selling decent or not (by industry standards).

The point of the comparison and examples is to show that despite these mangas selling MUCH less than their previous big hits, Magazine has enough respect and a loyalty with their authors to just not throw them away in the trash like Shonen Jump would do because it's not selling to their "standards" despite not selling bad.

Sunday has some serious cases of charity tbh kkkkkk

You realize that it's not because of a standard not being met, right? It's growth. Marie, Robot and Yui were all series which were running purely on the fumes of their authors previous works, unable to build their own fanbase.

Jump is basically an IP factory on top of a manga-house, all their works have larger media stakes beyond just the manga themselves. That's half of why the group covers are done, every new hit Jump gets is part of the brand.

21. Hinomaru Sumo #27
43. Samurai 8 #1
57. Samurai 8 #2

This is gonna get ugly.

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

I know that doesn't really matter but Samurai 8 reviews and score are getting better while One Piece dropped for just two stars, some people are really not liking this volume lol

 

[Kolbe]

Vector Ball getting axed, nor were Nakayama (Urataro) and Kodaka (Danganrompa)'s Gamblers' Paradise.

Vector Ball wasn't axed though. The manga was finished by the author's will.
And how I wish both Nakayama and Kodaka find sucess in the manga business. Especially Kodaka. I miss Danganronpa a lot

Just posting because... https://honto.jp/ranking/gr/bestseller_1101_1201_011_029004000000.html
Honto Daily Rankings 10/4

1. One Piece #94
2. Kimetsu no Yaiba #17
3. The Promised Neverland #16
4. Spy x Family #2
5. Jujutsu Kaisen #7
6. Koyoharu Gotoge Short Story Collection
8. Shokugeki no Soma #36
9. Black Clover #22
11. Boruto #10
12. Chainsawman#4
20. Yuuna #18
21. Hinomaru Sumo #27
43. Samurai 8 #1
57. Samurai 8 #2

I have never seen this site before. How accurate is it?

 

[Leoat12]

This is gonna get ugly.

If you think this is ugly you didn't see how merciless Amazon can be.
1030th and 1117th for both volumes.

 

[ruggia]

Vector Ball wasn't axed though. The manga was finished by the author's will.

Raiku gave up when he struggled to come up with a better direction when he was told the series was in danger.

 

[Konja9]

I have never seen this site before. How accurate is it?

I want to ask about this too.

This isn't Shoseki ranking we normally see, right?

 

[Koni]

Just posting because... https://honto.jp/ranking/gr/bestseller_1101_1201_011_029004000000.html
Honto Daily Rankings 10/4

1. One Piece #94
2. Kimetsu no Yaiba #17
3. The Promised Neverland #16
4. Spy x Family #2
5. Jujutsu Kaisen #7
6. Koyoharu Gotoge Short Story Collection
8. Shokugeki no Soma #36
9. Black Clover #22
11. Boruto #10
12. Chainsawman#4
20. Yuuna #18
21. Hinomaru Sumo #27
43. Samurai 8 #1
57. Samurai 8 #2

 

[Leoat12]

Honto is a bookseller website, all rankings in booksellers websites are accurate in their sales, but it doesn't count the sales of all sellers, just one.

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

You realize that it's not because of a standard not being met, right? It's growth. Marie, Robot and Yui were all series which were running purely on the fumes of their authors previous works, unable to build their own fanbase.

Jump is basically an IP factory on top of a manga-house, all their works have larger media stakes beyond just the manga themselves. That's half of why the group covers are done, every new hit Jump gets is part of the brand.

What you described is the definition of standards, for Jump standards these series failed despite Marie and Robot not doing really bad in sales, specially Robot doing literally good but still not for Jump standards and blah blah blah

 

[Konja9]

Honto is a bookseller website, all rankings in booksellers websites are accurate in their sales, but it doesn't count the sales of all sellers, just one.

Thanks for the clarification.

So, this is not conclusive about general sales (although it isn't a good sign).

 

[Koni]

What I'm most curious about, even more than Samurai 8, is just how much Spy x Family and Kimetsu no Yaiba are gonna sell. Those series have been skyrocketing and I want to see just how big they've grown.