Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

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jhin

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ok people arguing about bha being progressive or regressive is stupid its just one perspective. people who are fans of the series think its progressive while few casual people or haters of the series says its regressive or misogynist. can u just read the series for what is it instead of all his bullshit or if u don't just drop it.
 

Kolbe

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I just noticed I missed the top 5 from this decade. Mine is Assassination Classroom, The Promised Neverland, Dancing Midgets, My Hero Academia and Kimetsu no Yaiba.
Too late for that. Don't know why I even bother.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

supercow297

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ok people arguing about bha being progressive or regressive is stupid its just one perspective. people who are fans of the series think its progressive while few casual people or haters of the series says its regressive or misogynist. can u just read the series for what is it instead of all his bullshit or if u don't just drop it.
That's clearly not the point. Also, you coming in here and calling us stupid doesn't help anything.
 

ChocoBar9

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ok people arguing about bha being progressive or regressive is stupid its just one perspective. people who are fans of the series think its progressive while few casual people or haters of the series says its regressive or misogynist. can u just read the series for what is it instead of all his bullshit or if u don't just drop it.
The guy with an opposing view is a known hater of the series and will disagree with anything positive being said about it. Anyways there's wa snothing wrong with the discussion being had but I should have realized it was fruitless given his past actions.
 

supercow297

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I do not intend this to be a continuation of the kindergartner fight, but I want to clarify that I am not a hater of Boku no Hero, just a disillusioned fan.
I recommended BNHA to all my friends back when it was at season 2. They got into it after we watched up to Todo vs Deku together.
I've followed the series for years.
Now I just find it meh. That started when those same friends dropped the show in season 3. Unfortunately I'm a huge WSJ fan so I don't tend to drop series from it.

That's my blog. Take from it what you will. I'm not a hater. I've just always presented my honest opinions. If I'm to try to make myself look even better, I'd say a true hater would just instantly shit on everything in the series without rhyme or reason. I strongly believe that that is not what I have been doing.

Here's some (not all!) things I think are great about Boku no Hero. It's possibly the best in Jump at the following:

  • Character designs
  • Intensity of important fights
  • Detailing and lineart
Actually, I feel the same about Neverland as I do about Hero right now, due to a similar process of "meh"ing. If that subject was brought up now and I presented my thoughts on it surely I'd be called a "Neverland Hater", etc., etc., anything to render my opinions inaudible.
 

jhin

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That's clearly not the point. Also, you coming in here and calling us stupid doesn't really help...
i will say again its stupid talking about the thing where both sides don't agree on one thing and especially when it comes to a particular series because it having fans and haters. As i said its about perspective few thinks its progresive and other its misogynistic. this is going on like many pages if one side had a good point the other would have stopped. at the end of the day what the point of his argument.
 

WyldViolet

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Totally random, but I just finished reading through Pochi Kuro on a whim, and I must say, it was a really excellent story. Nice sense of humor, distinctive character designs, and a really feel-good story. I really wish it could've gone on for longer, but nothing about it really ever felt rushed. Hopefully the author will be back with something even better soon
Isn't Pochikuro's mangakas Tabatas wife? If not Tabata, was some some other well known Jump mangaka.
Regardless I also really liked Pochikuro. One of my favorite Jump+ series I wish had debuted in the main mag. Hopefully she can get another shot.
 

supercow297

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Isn't Pochikuro's mangakas Tabatas wife? If not Tabata, some was some other well known Jump mangaka.
Regardless I also really liked Pochikuro. One of my favorite Jump+ series I wish had debuted in the main mag. Hopefully she can get another shot.
There's no way. Really? Source? That'd be amazing
 

ChocoBar9

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Okay not only is Kohaku not the strongest human in the series but she's not even the best fighters and also you just went about explaining several different roles that applies to one character with the main explanation being that the author didn't even know what to do with her through the majority of the series run and even if you give them roles in the story they're not as important as the males.

Also, most of the females don't even have a love interest (I can think of... two? Three if you count the villains), and none of them have been dropping babies...
They are also did you literally block out that the entire crux of the story and why everything came to be is because Senku's father team needed to repopulate the earth so all the women on the team were essentially breeding sows during that period?




Are you asking what a series with good writing is doing in Jump?
You are just as bad as reading as @supercow297

And yes, a good writer will write good females. That's not a byproduct, it's just part of the package.
Nope not really, there's plenty of critically acclaimed series that gets crucified for their treatment of female characters (YYH, HxH, One Piece, DEATH NOTE, etc.) Its because people like you seem to believe that because a writer is good at one aspect it means that they're good at everything. The fact remains is that writing for female characters isn't everyone's forte and people will praise a series for even having a lead female character regardless of intent. AA is different because all the characters are well-written so trying to separate it by gender is vastly missing the point since that wasn't what the author is trying to so and thus the female characters in AA being well-written is a byproduct of the story and characters being well-written.

I'm not sure why you seem to be looking for some kind of ploy here, treating women like humans doesn't require any kind of political intent.
Because in this thread people are doing EXACTLY what I said people always do when this subject gets brought up, hell you did the exact same shit too with Dr. Stone.
 
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supercow297

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i will say again its stupid talking about the thing where both sides don't agree on one thing and especially when it comes to a particular series because it having fans and haters. As i said its about perspective few thinks its progresive and other its misogynistic. this is going on like many pages if one side had a good point the other would have stopped. at the end of the day what the point of his argument.
Very early on my replies became focused on making sure I'm not portrayed as some hater who simply is illogical and has no reason, so I suppose the "point" of this argument for me is to preserve my personal sense of internet dignity in the face of people who paint me in a certain light. Pretty pathetic tbh, but it's been a stressful couple of days.

That and the progressiveness topic was actually very interesting before it was derailed (a large part of the responsibility is on me, my bad)

Let's all be careful not to bite on the tasty ChocoBait. He just released some tasty new flavors.

Edit: Also LOL if you look at the flags this was all just another pissing match between Canada and USA
 
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ChocoBar9

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In Naruto the strong female characters were still few,
Nope. There were strong female characters throughout the different villages

and almost always in the categories in which they were disfigured (eg Sakura is decidedly stronger than the other young kunochi, but much weaker than Naruto and Sasuke, Mei among all Kage is strong that one it is distinct less, the same for Tsunade for the Sannin etc.)
Mei's and Tsunade's roles were never brought into attention in the story nor were they disfigured. Tsunade beat Orochimaru and the latter couldn't really do anything she also protected the village against Pain's strongest attack who was responsible for Jiraiya's death.


the only exception is Kaguya, a sin that has zero personality or utility
Well the same can be said about BC.



But I wouldn't say, look at Mereloena who from what we've seen is the strongest captain .....

Or even inside the Black Bull, where all female members have very powerful magic.
This is honestly just a double standard.
 

Koni

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This does bring up something I wanted to discuss in the future, but I might as well do so now.

Which WSJ series would you say are the most progressive in terms of feminism?
From the few I’ve read/watched:

Black Clover has been doing pretty well with its female characters. Take Noelle for example: I need to catch up to the series, but I find it really nice how she’s a badass in her own right. She can hold her own and fight alongside her squad. She’s also a pretty decent character as well - I can see why she acts the way she acts (her inability to control her magic compared to her status and how her family’s treats her as a result of that) and I can root for her. Also, as a tsundere, she isn’t completely annoying, which is a huge boon for me.

MHA’s female characters end up being one of the weaker aspects for me, since as it’s been stated: they’re really good whenever the hell they get any screentime. That screentime ends up being rare, however, and it’s something I seriously hope Horikoshi fixes down the line. I’ve found it a bit frustrating, especially since IMO Hori’s so good with making a character immediately interesting through their design and the initial personality they have but then they’re gone. Again, as has been stated, this seems to stem from a problem of Hori not having enough time to develop minor characters.

I have been enjoying Emma and Isabella so far in Neverland, though honestly I’m anime only on that one.

How is Kimetsu with its female characters? Haven’t heard much talk on that.
 

ChocoBar9

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How is Kimetsu with its female characters? Haven’t heard much talk on that.
Nezuko receives the most criticism because she's more of a plot device than an actual character despite the fact that the brother sister dynamic between her and Tanijiro is the heart of the series she winds up getting very little focus which a flaw in itself but not something I would considering detrimental to the quaity of the series since her moments are some of the best in the series and what essentially made episode 19 of the anime so memorable the rest aren't bad but they're not given nearly as much attention as the males. Let's just say there's a reason why it has a large female following.
 

NeeNeen

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For female characters this decade, I'd have to say World Trigger, even if it's not in Jump anymore. Tons of females, many capable and in high positions and badasses, none are sexualised or reduced to love interests despite the transformation being a perfect opportunity to do so, and they get equal screentime to males. Ashihara does the simple thing of valueing all of his characters and treating them equally. WT just does so many things masterfully, it really is an amazing series and blows pretty much everything this decade out of the water in most aspects in sheer writing quality.

Act-age is pretty similar in its treatment to WT too. Reina is probably the most "real" feeling female we've had in Jump for a while and I don't think anyone expected Kawada to handle her as well as he did, especially when she started off as a trope. MHA's female characters are well above the quality we usually see in Jump stuff, but they're terribly underutilised, though that's a problem for most of the side characters tbh. Not a fan of any of BC's main females at all. Noelle has been treated well these last few arcs, but the Asta complex is so forced and unnecessary. She'd be a pretty good character without it.. Haven't read the later parts of Jujutsu so won't comment. Nothing else really has females worth mentioning I don't think.
I think TPN and Dr. Stone have females worth mentioning, but I agree with everything else you said.


Okay not only is Kohaku not the strongest human in the series but she's not even the best fighters and also you just went about explaining several different roles that applies to one character with the main explanation being that the author didn't even know what to do with her through the majority of the series run and even if you give them roles in the story they're not as important as the males.
I didn't say she was the strongest human in the series, I said she was their main fighter (their = from Senku's team). Senku literally said so himself.

And I don't really get what you are trying to say in the rest of your post. You were arguing that the girls are nothing but love interests and baby makers, I pointed out that this is wrong and that many of them have very important roles. Now you are acting as if I said that the girls are more important that the guys, which I did not. But they are a whole lot more important than you made them out to be.


They are also did you literally block out that the entire crux of the story and why everything came to be is because Senku's father team needed to repopulate the earth so all the women on the team were essentially breeding sows during that period?
First of all, it's silly to judge an entire series by one flashback scene.

Second, if the main goal was to repopulate the earth, doesn't that mean the men were also breeding bulls? How exactly did you come to the conclusion that a woman having children to save the species is a breeding cow, but a man doing the same thing is an important character? They had about equal amounts of screentime and everything...


Nope not really, there's plenty of critically acclaimed series that gets crucified for their treatment of female characters (YYH, HxH, One Piece, DEATH NOTE, etc.) Its because people like you seem to believe that because a writer is good at one aspect it means that they're good at everything. The fact remains is that writing for female characters isn't everyone's forte and people will praise a series for even having a lead female character regardless of intent. AA is different because all the characters are well-written so trying to separate it by gender is vastly missing the point since that wasn't what the author is trying to so and thus the female characters in AA being well-written is a byproduct of the story and characters being well-written.
Agreed on there being writers that don't do everything well, but my point was that it doesn't really matter what the author's intentions were, a good female character is a good female character. It still counts.


Because in this thread people are doing EXACTLY what I said people always do when this subject gets brought up, hell you did the exact same shit too with Dr. Stone.
Huh?

Okay, I'm really confused now. When did I ever say anything about the writer of Dr. Stone trying to make a statement with his female cast?
 
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jhin

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Very early on my replies became focused on making sure I'm not portrayed as some hater who simply is illogical and has no reason, so I suppose the "point" of this argument for me is to preserve my personal sense of internet dignity in the face of people who paint me in a certain light. Pretty pathetic tbh, but it's been a stressful couple of days.

That and the progressiveness topic was actually very interesting before it was derailed (a large part of the responsibility is on me, my bad)

Let's all be careful not to bite on the tasty ChocoBait. He just released some tasty new flavors.

Edit: Also LOL if you look at the flags this was all just another pissing match between Canada and USA
i never said u r a hater and never said u r opinion is wrong and i somewhat agree on what u said about mha not being progressive.
 

ChocoBar9

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Damn.. people really wanna force jump to be a elementary magazine... smh
Well its worked out for them by being "softer" in content in comparison to WSM and WSS. Souma was arguably the raciest thing Jump published since I's.
 

Chuck_Atlas

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Regarding the whole Yuuna deal, I was just gonna say how WSM just recently had explicit sex scenes within the spam of 3 chapters , and showing full frontal nudity to boot, But u guys beat me to it XD
 

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Nezuko receives the most criticism because she's more of a plot device than an actual character despite the fact that the brother sister dynamic between her and Tanijiro is the heart of the series she winds up getting very little focus which a flaw in itself but not something I would considering detrimental to the quaity of the series since her moments are some of the best in the series and what essentially made episode 19 of the anime so memorable the rest aren't bad but they're not given nearly as much attention as the males. Let's just say there's a reason why it has a large female following.
Lemme guess. Same reason MHA has a large female following. xD


Damn.. people really wanna force jump to be a elementary magazine... smh
Personally, I think it's because Jump is the most popular of the magazines by far, so it gets the most exposure whenever it does stuff like this. Again, some of the stuff in Magazine and Sunday is more explicit than this. Plus, honestly, I don't think anybody would be complaining if the method to uncensor the nipples wasnt discovered in the first place.
 
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