Fantasy Mirajane vs Kyria

[Jko]

He didn't have to. Wall missed. That attack was never going to oneshot him. The fireball was also mid-way through the fight. The difference between Laxus' nuke and Wall's fireball is that August had to intervene to save Ajeel...and Laxus had to do absolutely nothing because Wall couldn't aim. Also the reason we say Laxus' nuke was going to kill Ajeel wasn't because of Ajeel's facial expression. It's because August thought it was going to kill Ajeel, and I trust August' opinion. Nobody in verse thought that Wall was going to kill Laxus except Wall.

Even if Mercphobia wasn't at full power, he would have still dwarfed the powers of anyone else. Half the strength of Acnologia is still many magnitudes greater than anyone else's. Being able to cut up Mercphobia is still impressive. Beyond that, Kyria's attacks have still managed to cut Natsu, Erza, Gray's ice, Lucy, and Wendy. Laxus being completely unscratched by Kyria would be the exception, not the rule.

Erza without her second origin was still on Mirajane's level, and Mirajane thought that Jura was stronger than both herself and Erza combined. Laxus beat Jura. This right here tells us there's a massive gap between GMG Laxus and Mirajane. Erza may have closed the gap with second origin, but Mirajane is not Erza. The group that Kamika belonged to was fodder incarnate, even during the GMG arc. They all got stomped, and then future Rogue oneshotted them all casually. Jura or Laxus would rip them apart.

Of course oneshotting Wendy isn't some end-all-be-all feat. Actually oneshotting Wendy is still more impressive than not oneshotting her.

I don't trust August opinion bcs it hasn't been backed up. Also where's the difference? The attack had to miss hitting him or he would have been severely hurt. The dude made 400km shot and misses a shot not even 20 feet away?

Nah, Merc wasn't even at half power in human form. The WW had control of his magic and only let him go loose once Touka tool control. The DE already stated he wasn't a Dragon God when he was in human form. He did nothing notable as well.

Erza without SO wasn't on Mira's level. Tenrou Erza was Tenrou Mira's level while SO Erza is on SO Mira's level. That's pretty self evident as seeing she was above Natsu in the GMG and GMG Natsu is sure as hell stronger than Tenrou Erza. Nah, they weren't. The flower girl literally had Larcade's RIP but it worked much faster, Kamika can immobilize via paper and paper resistant to Natsu's fire, and the fish boy can alter terrains to make lava pits. Those three were pretty powerful with their hax. Future Rogue was an MG level opponent so not really surprised he could oneshot them. What does that have to do with anything? Jura oneshotted Orga so Orga fodder?

Nah, KOing is based off of the situation. Kyria wasn't going to kill her thus she could be KOed had she been KOed by Irene, DiMaria, or Acno her life would have ended right there.

 

[Axiomus]

I don't trust August opinion bcs it hasn't been backed up. Also where's the difference? The attack had to miss hitting him or he would have been severely hurt. The dude made 400km shot and misses a shot not even 20 feet away?

Nah, Merc wasn't even at half power in human form. The WW had control of his magic and only let him go loose once Touka tool control. The DE already stated he wasn't a Dragon God when he was in human form. He did nothing notable as well.

Erza without SO wasn't on Mira's level. Tenrou Erza was Tenrou Mira's level while SO Erza is on SO Mira's level. That's pretty self evident as seeing she was above Natsu in the GMG and GMG Natsu is sure as hell stronger than Tenrou Erza. Nah, they weren't. The flower girl literally had Larcade's RIP but it worked much faster, Kamika can immobilize via paper and paper resistant to Natsu's fire, and the fish boy can alter terrains to make lava pits. Those three were pretty powerful with their hax. Future Rogue was an MG level opponent so not really surprised he could oneshot them. What does that have to do with anything? Jura oneshotted Orga so Orga fodder?

Nah, KOing is based off of the situation. Kyria wasn't going to kill her thus she could be KOed had she been KOed by Irene, DiMaria, or Acno her life would have ended right there.

The fact that Laxus could kill Wall, another Spriggan 12, backs August up. The difference is that August had to stop Laxus from killing Ajeel, and Wall wouldn't have killed Laxus anyways because he lacks the skill to aim.

Tenrou Erza was above Tenrou Mirajane's level, and on GMG Mirajane's level. Second Origin pushed Erza to a level of her own, closer to Laxus' level. Mirajane doesn't have second origin. She regained use of her Sitri takeover, which was a takeover that Erza had previously matched. Second origin gave Erza a new armour in Nakagami that surpassed her previous limits. How was GMG Mirajane above GMG Natsu? GMG Natsu is indistinguishable from Tartaros Natsu (literally 2 weeks apart), and Natsu does better against Mard Geer's etherious form than Mirajane did against Seilah. Flower girl is Larcade level? But faster? Bruh. She got stomped by Wendy. Orga is fodder to Jura, and Orga is still stronger than any member of the Kamika squad. The entire group is fodder incarnate. When Natsu stole the King's crown and Arcadios ordered them to sick him, the whole group flat out admitted that they couldn't beat him. This is literally Natsu's reaction when he first saw them.

Spoiler

 

[Jko]

The fact that Laxus could kill Wall, another Spriggan 12, backs August up. The difference is that August had to stop Laxus from killing Ajeel, and Wall wouldn't have killed Laxus anyways because he lacks the skill to aim.

Tenrou Erza was above Tenrou Mirajane's level, and on GMG Mirajane's level. Second Origin pushed Erza to a level of her own, closer to Laxus' level. Mirajane doesn't have second origin. She regained use of her Sitri takeover, which was a takeover that Erza had previously matched. Second origin gave Erza a new armour in Nakagami that surpassed her previous limits. How was GMG Mirajane above GMG Natsu? GMG Natsu is indistinguishable from Tartaros Natsu (literally 2 weeks apart), and Natsu does better against Mard Geer's etherious form than Mirajane did against Seilah. Flower girl is Larcade level? But faster? Bruh. She got stomped by Wendy. Orga is fodder to Jura, and Orga is still stronger than any member of the Kamika squad. The entire group is fodder incarnate. When Natsu stole the King's crown and Arcadios ordered them to sick him, the whole group flat out admitted that they couldn't beat him. This is literally Natsu's reaction when he first saw them.

Spoiler

He killed him with his strongest spell and Wall stood there and took the attack. No way could he take Wall out with a flick of his wrist.

Tenrou Erza wasn't lol. She had a hard time with Azuma before he even used the tree's power to strengthen his attacks. Mira while being tired fought him and could've beaten him had it not been for her wanting to save Lisanna. And she held back bcs Lisanna was there as per her words in the GMG. Tenrou Mira is on Tenrou Erzs's level. GMG Mira is greater than GMG Natsu. She was shown to react to attacks he couldn't and she scared the f out of him in Sitri.

Spoiler

GMG Natsu was definitely weaker than GMG Mira lmao.

Wendy has hax counter bro. She literally stopped the WW's hax with her bodily anomaly enchantment which is what she used to stop the Flower girl's attack. Where did I say Flower girl was stronger? I said she had a variant of RIP and it activated faster than Larcade's which is true lol. And who cares? Natsu trashed the twins in GMG by himself and raided Sabertooth like they were chumps.

You mean Natsu backed up by three other people? Plus he didn't crap to Mard Geer until Gray came lol.

 

[IamtherealMirajane]

He killed him with his strongest spell and Wall stood there and took the attack. No way could he take Wall out with a flick of his wrist.

Tenrou Erza wasn't lol. She had a hard time with Azuma before he even used the tree's power to strengthen his attacks. Mira while being tired fought him and could've beaten him had it not been for her wanting to save Lisanna. And she held back bcs Lisanna was there as per her words in the GMG. Tenrou Mira is on Tenrou Erzs's level. GMG Mira is greater than GMG Natsu. She was shown to react to attacks he couldn't and she scared the f out of him in Sitri.

Spoiler

GMG Natsu was definitely weaker than GMG Mira lmao.

Wendy has hax counter bro. She literally stopped the WW's hax with her bodily anomaly enchantment which is what she used to stop the Flower girl's attack. Where did I say Flower girl was stronger? I said she had a variant of RIP and it activated faster than Larcade's which is true lol. And who cares? Natsu trashed the twins in GMG by himself and raided Sabertooth like they were chumps.

You mean Natsu backed up by three other people? Plus he didn't crap to Mard Geer until Gray came lol.

Just to add in their fight against the executioners. Happy and Carla went on to claim that among them Mirajane is the scariest. Sitri was even touted as the strongest Mage as per Happy ( though it happen in Anime).

 

[Axiomus]

He killed him with his strongest spell and Wall stood there and took the attack. No way could he take Wall out with a flick of his wrist.

Tenrou Erza wasn't lol. She had a hard time with Azuma before he even used the tree's power to strengthen his attacks. Mira while being tired fought him and could've beaten him had it not been for her wanting to save Lisanna. And she held back bcs Lisanna was there as per her words in the GMG. Tenrou Mira is on Tenrou Erzs's level. GMG Mira is greater than GMG Natsu. She was shown to react to attacks he couldn't and she scared the f out of him in Sitri.

Spoiler

GMG Natsu was definitely weaker than GMG Mira lmao.

Wendy has hax counter bro. She literally stopped the WW's hax with her bodily anomaly enchantment which is what she used to stop the Flower girl's attack. Where did I say Flower girl was stronger? I said she had a variant of RIP and it activated faster than Larcade's which is true lol. And who cares? Natsu trashed the twins in GMG by himself and raided Sabertooth like they were chumps lol.

You mean Natsu backed up by three other people? Plus he didn't crap to Mard Geer until Gray came lol.

He killed him with the first attack that Wall wasn't outright immune to. Wall was throwing a temper tantrum a mental breakdown because he got played.

Tenrou Erza was stronger than Mirajane. After fighting Azuma and tanking shots from the tree without any defenses, she still recovered enough to go on to fight Hades. If Mirajane thought she could have beaten Azuma, she would have gone for it. The fact that she didn't want to take her chances and flat out said that she couldn't beat Azuma speaks volumes.

Mirajane attacked Jenny in the middle of a fashion contest. Natsu was shocked at that. That doesn't imply that Mirajane was stronger than him lmao.

Someone that Wendy can stomp is a fodder. The entire group couldn't take on Natsu. They're fodders compared to an actual top tier of the GMG arc like Jura.

Even without considering Gray or Sting or Rogue's assistance, Natsu did better against Mard Geer than Mirajane did. The fact that Natsu and Gray could trade attacks with Mard at all in his etherious form is more than what can be said about Mirajane.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 22, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 22, 2019 ---

Just to add in their fight against the executioners. Happy and Carla went on to claim that among them Mirajane is the scariest. Sitri was even touted as the strongest Mage as per Happy ( though it happen in Anime).

Where does Happy and Carla say this?

Also, what episode did Happy say Sitri is the strongest mage?

 

[IamtherealMirajane]

He killed him with the first attack that Wall wasn't outright immune to. Wall was throwing a temper tantrum a mental breakdown because he got played.

Tenrou Erza was stronger than Mirajane. After fighting Azuma and tanking shots from the tree without any defenses, she still recovered enough to go on to fight Hades. If Mirajane thought she could have beaten Azuma, she would have gone for it. The fact that she didn't want to take her chances and flat out said that she couldn't beat Azuma speaks volumes.

Mirajane attacked Jenny in the middle of a fashion contest. Natsu was shocked at that. That doesn't imply that Mirajane was stronger than him lmao.

Someone that Wendy can stomp is a fodder. The entire group couldn't take on Natsu. They're fodders compared to an actual top tier of the GMG arc like Jura.

Even without considering Gray or Sting or Rogue's assistance, Natsu did better against Mard Geer than Mirajane did. The fact that Natsu and Gray could trade attacks with Mard at all in his etherious form is more than what can be said about Mirajane.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 22, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 22, 2019 ---

Where does Happy and Carla say this?

Also, what episode did Happy say Sitri is the strongest mage?

Fairy tail 2014 episode 6. I just read the english sub when happy said it.

Just also to add in the anime. Natsu said that Mirajane is still stronger like before. That happened. after she shows her sitri.

Even Gajeel was sweating.

 

[Axiomus]

Fairy tail 2014 episode 6. I just read the english sub when happy say it.

So, episode 181? As I thought, it's a mistranslation on the subbers part. They translated 魔人 (ma-jin) as "mage". It's an understandable error because the individual words mean "magic human". However, 魔人 (ma-jin) as a term really means demon. If you listen to the dub, you'll probably hear Happy say that it's Mirajane's most powerful demon.....and yup, they went with "she devil".

Fairy Tail Episode 181 English Dubbed Watch Online - Fairy Tail Episodes

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[IamtherealMirajane]

So, episode 181? As I thought, it's a mistranslation on the subbers part. They translated 魔人 (ma-jin) as "mage". It's an understandable error because the individual words mean "magic human". However, 魔人 (ma-jin) as a term really means demon. If you listen to the dub, you'll probably hear Happy say that it's Mirajane's most powerful demon.....and yup, they went with "she devil".

Im sorry im not good in nihonggo. I dont know if it is a mistranslation.

Nevertheless as per Master Makarov he would rather let Mirajane, Erza, Laxus and Gildarts to compete in GMG to secure fairy tail win.

Maybe he still view Mirajane as one of a powerhouse in the guild. stronger than Natsu and Gray at that time by hype.

 

[Jko]

He killed him with the first attack that Wall wasn't outright immune to. Wall was throwing a temper tantrum a mental breakdown because he got played.

Tenrou Erza was stronger than Mirajane. After fighting Azuma and tanking shots from the tree without any defenses, she still recovered enough to go on to fight Hades. If Mirajane thought she could have beaten Azuma, she would have gone for it. The fact that she didn't want to take her chances and flat out said that she couldn't beat Azuma speaks volumes.

Mirajane attacked Jenny in the middle of a fashion contest. Natsu was shocked at that. That doesn't imply that Mirajane was stronger than him lmao.

Someone that Wendy can stomp is a fodder. The entire group couldn't take on Natsu. They're fodders compared to an actual top tier of the GMG arc like Jura.

Even without considering Gray or Sting or Rogue's assistance, Natsu did better against Mard Geer than Mirajane did. The fact that Natsu and Gray could trade attacks with Mard at all in his etherious form is more than what can be said about Mirajane.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 22, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 22, 2019 ---

Where does Happy and Carla say this?

Also, what episode did Happy say Sitri is the strongest mage?

With his strongest attack. Yeah, Wall sat there and took the attack. He went retarded bcs of plot as he would've shot Laxus in the face with Etherion and Laxus would be dead.

She did think she could beat Azuma lmao. She just just didn't want to chance Lisanna's life on it (note she thought she could take him with MP not even at full power lol)

Spoiler

It wasn't in the middle of a fashion contest, she literally says they are going to fight in a battle of power right before she attacks. Natsu was shocked at her power which is what this entire page references is her power.

Spoiler

Natsu was sweating bullets bcs of her power. Where did you even get he would be surprised about a fight and start sweating bullets from it out of shock? Gajeel and Laxus literally note her strength is amazing in the panels that proceed Natsu's shocked face and Gajeel is also sweating from the power displayed. No one was surprised about the battle in the panel but the strength displayed. The entire page was dedicated to Mira's strength lol.

Mirajane never fought Mard Geer so how would you know that? The twins were doing as good as Natsu in that fight as well lol. Natsu was getting smashed in 1v1 with lower 9Ds like Tempester and Jackal so again his performance against Mard doesn't make him stronger than others who haven't fought him. Gray was trading blows bcs he was DeS as well lmao. Saying bcs they fought Mard they are stronger than Mira makes no sense. That's like saying they were stronger than Laxus or Erza bcs they didn't fight Mard either. Only DF Natsu is stronger than Mira the other forms were below unless he got amped from the GMG to Tartarus.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 22, 2019 ---

Natsu literally says she is amazing in the next chapter as well lmao.

Spoiler

Natsu was only amazed by her strength not the shock factor of an unexpected fight. He didn't even care they fought, but only was impressed with Mira's power (a holding back Mira at that).

 

[Axiomus]

Im sorry im not good in nihonggo. I dont know if it is a mistranslation.

Nevertheless as per Master Makarov he would rather let Mirajane, Erza, Laxus and Gildarts to compete in GMG to secure fairy tail win.

Maybe he still view Mirajane as one of a powerhouse in the guild. stronger than Natsu and Gray at that time by hype.

It's fine. Like I said, understandable error. The word "magic" is actually the same word as "demon" in Japanese, so there can be a lot of confusion.

Makarov also got to choose the teams for day 5 of the GMG, and he ended up picking Natsu, Gray, Gajeel, Erza, and Laxus.

With his strongest attack. Yeah, Wall sat there and took the attack. He went retarded bcs of plot as he would've shot Laxus in the face with Etherion and Laxus would be dead.

She did think she could beat Azuma lmao. She just just didn't want to chance Lisanna's life on it (note she thought she could take him with MP not even at full power lol)

Spoiler

It wasn't in the middle of a fashion contest, she literally says they are going to fight in a battle of power right before she attacks. Natsu was shocked at her power which is what this entire page references is her power.

Spoiler

Natsu was sweating bullets bcs of her power. Where did you even get he would be surprised about a fight and start sweating bullets from it? Gajeel and Laxus literally note her strength is amazing in the panels that proceed Natsu's shocked face. No one was surprised about the battle in the panel but the strength displayed. The entire page was dedicated to Mira's strength lol.

Mirajane never fought Mard Geer so how would you know that? The twins were doing as good as Natsu in that fight as well lol. Natsu was getting smashed in 1v1 with lower 9Ds like Tempester and Jackal so again his performance against Mard doesn't make him stronger than others who haven't fought him. Gray was trading blows bcs he was DeS as well lmao. Saying bcs they fought Mard they are stronger than Mira makes no sense. That's like saying they were stronger than Laxus or Erza bcs they didn't fight Mard either. Only DF Natsu is stronger than Mira the other forms were below unless he got amped from the GMG to Tartarus.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 22, 2019 ---

Natsu literally says she is amazing in the next chapter lmao.

How do you know it was his strongest attack?

In the panels you posted, she said maybe she could do it if she poured all of her power into one attack, and then decided against her chances and said that she couldn't beat him and didn't have enough power left. Sooooo....

It was in the middle of a fashion contest. Jenny literally wasn't expecting a fight the entire time. The facial expression still doesn't prove that Mirajane was stronger than Natsu during the GMG arc. Natsu made the same expression when Orga oneshotted a fodder. Erza too. It doesn't mean much when we look at their feats.

Spoiler

I'm not saying Natsu is better than Mirajane just because he fought Mard. I'm saying he's better because he did better against Mard than Mirajane did against Seilah, and Mard Geer is vastly stronger than Seilah. The Tartaros cards has Mard Geer's stats nearly triple that of Seilahs even with her limit release accounted for. Natsu wasn't getting smashed by Tempester or Jackal. He was the one doing the smashing. Natsu got done in by Jackal's hax, and afterwards just wailed on Jackal when it came to hand to hand. He was beating on Temepster until Torafuzar's flood took him out. Whenever Natsu struggled with the demon gates it usually isn't because he can't trade blows with them, it's because he gets done in by hax. Mirajane was overwhelmed by Seilah in direct combat.

Come to think of it, Sting and Rogue did awesome against Mard Geer too. They also took out Jiemma, who was considered by Mard to be stronger than his demon gates. Gray had all of Silver's magic power, and Silver was arguably a Laxus tier in his own right. Gray during the Tartaros arc was arguably the strongest person in the guild, and it showed. Erza did better against Kyouka, who is stronger than any of the demon gates Natsu fought. Erza also beat down Minerva with her bare hands. Laxus got poisoned for the whole arc, but his GMG showings still put him above Natsu.

 

[IamtherealMirajane]

It's fine. Like I said, understandable error. The word "magic" is actually the same word as "demon" in Japanese, so there can be a lot of confusion.

Makarov also got to choose the teams for day 5 of the GMG, and he ended up picking Natsu, Gray, Gajeel, Erza, and Laxus.

But still it was Makarov first choice. Its either Natsu, Gajeel and Gray insisted to fight instead of Mirajane and Jellal. Besides Knowing Mirajane she dont like when people watching her fight since she hate being called a monster or a devil. She even admitted that she tend to restrain herself when someone is watching her. And yes Jellal is above Gray and Gajeel in GMG arc.

 

[Ramen]

But still it was Makarov first choice. Its either Natsu, Gajeel and Gray insisted to fight instead of Mirajane and Jellal. Besides Knowing Mirajane she dont like when people watching her fight since she hate being called a monster or a devil. She even admitted that she tend to restrain herself when someone is watching her. And yes Jellal is above Gray and Gajeel in GMG arc.

Jellal is still aboce Gajeel and probably Gray.

(Yes I changed my opinion on Gray and Jellal)

 

[Axiomus]

But still it was Makarov first choice. Its either Natsu, Gajeel and Gray insisted to fight instead of Mirajane and Jellal. Besides Knowing Mirajane she dont like when people watching her fight since she hate being called a monster or a devil. She even admitted that she tend to restrain herself when someone is watching her. And yes Jellal is above Gray and Gajeel in GMG arc.

Makarov was surprised many times throughout the course of the GMG, and that decision was made before we really saw what second origin could do.

Jellal was indeed above Gray and Gajeel. Makarov couldn't choose him because he wanted to hund down the guy who had magic similar to Zeref's, which turned out to be Rogue.

 

[IamtherealMirajane]

Makarov was surprised many times throughout the course of the GMG, and that decision was made before we really saw what second origin could do.

Jellal was indeed above Gray and Gajeel. Makarov couldn't choose him because he wanted to hund down the guy who had magic similar to Zeref's, which turned out to be Rogue.

But still Gray and Natsu were not the first choice. Even Mirajane is not confortable in showing her power (she was even embarassed about it). Especially when there so much audience watching her.

Lucy and Gray even claimed that Mirajane has no weaknesses that someone can exploite against her (except her siblings).

And yes GMG Mirajane is > GMG Gray.

 

[Axiomus]

But still Gray and Natsu were not the first choice. Even Mirajane is not confortable in showing her power (she was even embarassed about it). Especially when there so much audience watching her.

Lucy and Gray even claimed that Mirajane has no weaknesses that someone can exploite against her (except her siblings).

And yes GMG Mirajane is > GMG Gray.

They were the choices after Makarov saw what everyone could do over the course of the GMG, namely after watching Natsu and Gajeel dominate Sting and Rogue. Makarov didn't know how strong the main cast got after second origin. Mirajane's shyness didn't stop her from using Sitri to attack Jenny.

GMG Mirajane may have indeed be stronger than GMG Gray, but GMG Gray wasn't on GMG Natsu's level. Natsu soloing both Sting and Rogue was more impressive than just beating Rufus, and that was in base mode. Gray had nothing on the level of LFD. Gray during the GMG would have been closer to Sting or Rogue's level than Natsu's. To give an idea of the difference, Gray technically died to the mini dragon babies while Natsu was wailing on Motherglare. Don't confuse GMG Gray with Tartaros Gray. Tartaros arc Gray was a powerhouse. Gray received all of SIlver's magic power which would have made him a Laxus-tier at least.

 

[Seven777]

They were the choices after Makarov saw what everyone could do over the course of the GMG, namely after watching Natsu and Gajeel dominate Sting and Rogue. Makarov didn't know how strong the main cast got after second origin. Mirajane's shyness didn't stop her from using Sitri to attack Jenny.

GMG Mirajane may have indeed be stronger than GMG Gray, but GMG Gray wasn't on GMG Natsu's level. Natsu soloing both Sting and Rogue was more impressive than just beating Rufus, and that was in base mode. Gray had nothing on the level of LFD. Gray during the GMG would have been closer to Sting or Rogue's level than Natsu's. To give an idea of the difference, Gray technically died to the mini dragon babies while Natsu was wailing on Motherglare. Don't confuse GMG Gray with Tartaros Gray. Tartaros arc Gray was a powerhouse. Gray received all of SIlver's magic power which would have made him a Laxus-tier at least.

I'd have to disagree with you there. Gray stomps Sting. GMG Gray is on par, or close to SO Erza, Rufus was simply a bad match up. Before Gray got his power up he was a match for Silver, and Silver is Kyoka level, well above the Sting that Natsu beat.
Gray got killed protecting Juvia, Natsu had Atlas Flame against Motherglare

 

[Axiomus]

I'd have to disagree with you there. Gray stomps Sting. GMG Gray is on par, or close to SO Erza, Rufus was simply a bad match up. Before Gray got his power up he was a match for Silver, and Silver is Kyoka level, well above the Sting that Natsu beat.
Gray got killed protecting Juvia, Natsu had Atlas Flame against Motherglare

Gray isn't on SO Erza's level. Lyon had him outclassed in a 1v1, and Kagura was able to outmatch Lyon without even getting serious. Erza without second origin was able to beat Kagura with her achnemesis unsheathed, and is on a completely different level when she released second origin to beat Minerva. Erza with second origin is stronger than LFD Natsu. Silver likely threw the match with Gray because....well Gray is his son. I would argue that Silver didn't even really lose the fight. I mean, not really. He still had his magic power, and unless Keith was defeated Silver couldn't actually die. Natsu was wailing on Motherglare even before eating Atlas Flame's fire. I don't think there was that large of a gap between Sting's power and Gray's during the GMG. Gray more or less said that Sting's power was unbelievable.

Spoiler

Demonized Gray with Silver's power >= DF Natsu > SO Erza > Kyouka > LFD Natsu > Base Natsu > Gray >= DF Sting = DF Rogue

 

[Seven777]

Gray isn't on SO Erza's level. Lyon had him outclassed in a 1v1, and Kagura was able to outmatch Lyon without even getting serious. Erza without second origin was able to beat Kagura with her achnemesis unsheathed, and is on a completely different level when she released second origin to beat Minerva. Erza with second origin is stronger than LFD Natsu. Silver likely threw the match with Gray because....well Gray is his son. I would argue that Silver didn't even really lose the fight. I mean, not really. He still had his magic power, and unless Keith was defeated Silver couldn't actually die. Natsu was wailing on Motherglare even before eating Atlas Flame's fire. I don't think there was that large of a gap between Sting's power and Gray's during the GMG. Gray more or less said that Sting's power was unbelievable.

Spoiler

Demonized Gray with Silver's power >= DF Natsu > SO Erza > Kyouka > LFD Natsu > Base Natsu > Gray >= DF Sting = DF Rogue

Lyon vs Kagura was off-panel and a draw, both Lyon and Kagura were impressed with each other. Gray was never outclassed by Lyon in a 1v1, and he fought him after his fight with Rufus.
Erza without SO was getting trashed by Kagura, Kagura admitting defeat cause of her feelings doesn't make Erza better than her, not when she was fully capable of standing afterwards(pre getting stabbed).
Why is Erza with SO better than LFD Natsu? I don't necessarily disagree, but she doesn't have any feats that suggests this, except beating Kyoka maybe, which is a Gray tier feat.

Silver wanted Gray to kill him, doesn't mean he didn't take the fight seriously, and it doesn't make Gray's feats against him any less impressive. Gray consistently outsmarted and outperformed Silver, he wasn't a match in pure power but Gray rarely is when he fights his opponents. Even Gray's bluff with Ice Shell, something Silver would presumably give anything to prevent, completely blindsided him. Silver's defeat was what he wanted, but it wasn't in his hands, Gray outwitted him, which is why Gray was so impressive. Oh and Silver couldn't have kept going, he says himself that his body won't last much longer even if Gray didn't finish the job, which Gray could have done if he wanted to.

So? He's a dragon slayer. Does Natsu wailing on Motherglare make him better than Jura and Erza too? Gray dying to the babies isn't a feat against him, don't be ridiculous. He sacrificed himself for Juvia, It was a plot point to add weight to the story, anyone would have died in that situation, Natsu, Gildarts, anyone. In fact I'm pretty sure Erza almost got killed by them too.

Erza and Makarov had the same reaction as Gray, and Natsu himself had an even more impressed reaction.

Silver Gray=DF Natsu>SO Erza=LFD Natsu>=Gray=Silver=Kyoka>GMG Sting and Rogue together

 

[Axiomus]

Lyon vs Kagura was off-panel and a draw, both Lyon and Kagura were impressed with each other. Gray was never outclassed by Lyon in a 1v1, and he fought him after his fight with Rufus.
Erza without SO was getting trashed by Kagura, Kagura admitting defeat cause of her feelings doesn't make Erza better than her, not when she was fully capable of standing afterwards(pre getting stabbed).
Why is Erza with SO better than LFD Natsu? I don't necessarily disagree, but she doesn't have any feats that suggests this, except beating Kyoka maybe, which is a Gray tier feat.

Silver wanted Gray to kill him, doesn't mean he didn't take the fight seriously, and it doesn't make Gray's feats against him any less impressive. Gray consistently outsmarted and outperformed Silver, he wasn't a match in pure power but Gray rarely is when he fights his opponents. Even Gray's bluff with Ice Shell, something Silver would presumably give anything to prevent, completely blindsided him. Silver's defeat was what he wanted, but it wasn't in his hands, Gray outwitted him, which is why Gray was so impressive. Oh and Silver couldn't have kept going, he says himself that his body won't last much longer even if Gray didn't finish the job, which Gray could have done if he wanted to.

So? He's a dragon slayer. Does Natsu wailing on Motherglare make him better than Jura and Erza too? Gray dying to the babies isn't a feat against him, don't be ridiculous. He sacrificed himself for Juvia, It was a plot point to add weight to the story, anyone would have died in that situation, Natsu, Gildarts, anyone. In fact I'm pretty sure Erza almost got killed by them too.

Erza and Makarov had the same reaction as Gray, and Natsu himself had an even more impressed reaction.

Silver Gray=DF Natsu>SO Erza=LFD Natsu>=Gray=Silver=Kyoka>GMG Sting and Rogue together

• The point was that Kagura wasn't as serious against Lyon as she was against Erza, and against Erza she actually pulled out her sword. Against Lyon she was just fighting with the sword sheathed. Erza without second origin already beat Kagura. I mean, at the very least, she stopped the giant slash from the archnemesis sword and then blitzed Kagura. With second origin, Erza was on a different level.
• Erza with second origin is better than LFD because Minerva could block Natsu's LFD attack. Erza with second origin beat down Minerva with her demon power-up barehanded, before going on to beat Kyouka. She didn't really even use a weapon. Just her bare hands.
• Regardless if Silver could have kept going, Silver wanted Gray to kill him. He purposely threw the fight. Maybe it was to test Gray to see if he was worthy to take over his powers, but Silver was never going to kill Gray. Stopping iced shell was also what arguably gave Silver away. You could kind of tell that Silver was concerned about Gray.
• I disagree. I can't see many of the top tiers like Laxus or Gildarts dying to the dragon babies. Like Jellal was able to protect Erza and still blitz through the dragon babies like fodders. Erza might have died, but that was because she was thoroughly exhausted by that point and collapsed. Yes, Natsu was a dragon slayer so he had an advantage against Motherglare, but still...
• Erza and Makarov was surprised, for sure. But they didn't find Sting's power to be unbelievable. Natsu himself made a joke out of Sting and Rogue by the end of the fight.

I don't actually care enough about pre-Alvarez arc power levels to debate in length about this. I'm just saying that being stronger than GMG arc Gray doesn't make Mirajane stronger than GMG Natsu. GMG Natsu still has his LFD feats, and technically is indistinguishable from Tartaros Natsu which means Dragon Force is his actual peak. Even if I consider Gray equal to base Natsu, the argument would stand.

 

[Seven777]

• The point was that Kagura wasn't as serious against Lyon as she was against Erza, and against Erza she actually pulled out her sword. Against Lyon she was just fighting with the sword sheathed. Erza without second origin already beat Kagura. I mean, at the very least, she stopped the giant slash from the archnemesis sword and then blitzed Kagura. With second origin, Erza was on a different level.
• Erza with second origin is better than LFD because Minerva could block Natsu's LFD attack. Erza with second origin beat down Minerva with her demon power-up barehanded. She didn't really even use a weapon. Just her bare hands.
• Regardless if Silver could have kept going, Silver wanted Gray to kill him. He purposely threw the fight. Maybe it was to test Gray to see if he was worthy to take over his powers, but Silver was never going to kill Gray. Stopping iced shell was also what arguably gave Silver away. You could kind of tell that Silver was concerned about Gray.
• I disagree. I can't see many of the top tiers like Laxus or Gildarts dying to the dragon babies when they are holding their own against the actual dragons. Erza might have, but that was because she was thoroughly exhausted by that point and collapsed. Yes, Natsu was a dragon slayer so he had an advantage against Motherglare....but still...
• Erza and Makarov was surprised, for sure. But they didn't find Sting's power to be unbelievable. Natsu himself made a joke out of Sting and Rogue by the end of the fight.

I don't actually care enough about pre-Alvarez arc power levels to debate in length about this. I'm just saying that being stronger than GMG arc Gray doesn't make Mirajane stronger than GMG Natsu. GMG Natsu still has his LFD feats, and technically is indistinguishable from Tartaros Natsu which means Dragon Force is his actual peak. Even if I consider Gray equal to base Natsu, the argument would stand.

• Sure, but it was a draw, and lets face it, unsheathed Arch-Enemy performed significantly worse than the sheathed version. All power, no skill. Is it stronger? Sure, was it better against Erza? Not in the slightest. SO Erza used all her power up in one go, and it beat Minerva, who I would rank below Kagura. Is that another level? Maybe, but the jump in performance wasn't particularly impressive.
• Blocking one attack from LFD mode doesn't make Minerva above it, in fact i'm pretty sure she just teleported it into the wall.
• Sure, but in the end he couldn't do it. And the attack Gray used to beat him completely surprised him. Like I said, Silver's defeat was what he wanted, but it wasn't in his hands.
• Erza was definitely going to die, she gave up and accepted death. She was exhausted, so was Gray, and Gray was blindsided, he didn't surrender. But still what? He puts up a fight against Motherglare, who mind you didn't even attempt to attack him back other than doing a barrel roll, so he's above Gray? The babies aren't a match for Gray, they killed him because he sacrificed himself, not because they were too powerful. It's not a feat against Gray.
• Which goes to show how little everyones initial impressions of them mean. Natsu was seriously impressed with Sting's strength, and in the end Sting was still a joke to him. Impressing Fairy Tail is easy, beating them is not.

What I care about is people constantly underestimating the value of Gray's intelligence. Another form doesn't necessarily make you better than Gray, Gray is usually on the lower end when it comes to raw power anyway. Another form is just another factor Gray needs to outsmart.