Fantasy Mirajane vs Kyria

[Axiomus]

• Sure, but it was a draw, and lets face it, unsheathed Arch-Enemy performed significantly worse than the sheathed version. All power, no skill. Is it stronger? Sure, was it better against Erza? Not in the slightest. SO Erza used all her power up in one go, and it beat Minerva, who I would rank below Kagura. Is that another level? Maybe, but the jump in performance wasn't particularly impressive.
• Blocking one attack from LFD mode doesn't make Minerva above it, in fact i'm pretty sure she just teleported it into the wall.
• Sure, but in the end he couldn't do it. And the attack Gray used to beat him completely surprised him. Like I said, Silver's defeat was what he wanted, but it wasn't in his hands.
• Erza was definitely going to die, she gave up and accepted death. She was exhausted, so was Gray, and Gray was blindsided, he didn't surrender. But still what? He puts up a fight against Motherglare, who mind you didn't even attempt to attack him back other than doing a barrel roll, so he's above Gray? The babies aren't a match for Gray, they killed him because he sacrificed himself, not because they were too powerful. It's not a feat against Gray.
• Which goes to show how little everyones initial impressions of them mean. Natsu was seriously impressed with Sting's strength, and in the end Sting was still a joke to him. Impressing Fairy Tail is easy, beating them is not.

• Kagura wasn't even serious when fighting Lyon with the sword unsheathed. Against Erza, she was fighting for Milliana. Even if you argue that Kagura lost some skill due to her rage, I think the fact that the sword can cut apart an entire street more than compensates.
• Minerva doesn't have to be stronger than LFD. Just on it's level. Erza beats Minerva, so she scales above it.
• Erza's injuries literally caused her to collapse before the dragon babies closed in. Gray was still in, more or less, fighting shape. Yes, he was blindsided but the dragon babies shouldn't be impossibly fast. "But still"....the difference in the level opponents and their performance was huge. Natsu was fighting Future Rogue the whole time, and still managed to get some hits off on Motherglare. I don't see the roars the dragon babies used as being stronger than Rough Silk.
• I don't think Sting would beat Gray. Just that Gray is closer to Sting's level than Natsu's. Maybe it would be more fair to say to say Gray is closer to Gajeel's level, but even then Rogue also said that Gajeel wasn't on Natsu's level.

 

[Demon Hunter]

hypnosis most likely wouldn't work on Mirajane now tbh.

couple that with Mira's speed, she can take this tbh.

 

[Seven777]

• Kagura wasn't even serious when fighting Lyon with the sword unsheathed. Against Erza, she was fighting for Milliana. Even if you argue that Kagura lost some skill due to her rage, I think the fact that the sword can cut apart an entire street more than compensates.
• Minerva doesn't have to be stronger than LFD. Just on it's level. Erza beats Minerva, so she scales above it.
• Erza's injuries literally caused her to collapse before the dragon babies closed in. Gray was still in, more or less, fighting shape. Yes, he was blindsided but the dragon babies shouldn't be impossibly fast. "But still"....the difference in the level opponents and their opponents was huge. Natsu was fighting Future Rogue the whole time, and still managed to get some hits off on Motherglare. I don't see the roars the dragon babies used as being stronger than Sting's punches or Rough Silk.
• I don't think Sting would beat Gray. Just that Gray is closer to Sting's level than Natsu's. Maybe it would be more fair to say to say Gray is closer to Gajeel's level, as Rogue also said that Gajeel wasn't on Natsu's level.

• Doesn’t make her stronger than Lyon, it just means she had more to give in that fight. Does it compensate? Didnt look like it. I follow your logic though.
• Teleporting that attack doesn’t really make her on par with LFD either.
• Erza didn't just collapse from her earlier injuries, she collapsed after the babies messed her up and aggravated those injuries, something that didn't happen to Gray. She was in a bad situation I'll grant you, probably more tired than Gray was, but on the other hand unlike Gray she didn't have to take a barrage of attacks to save a loved one. The babies aren't impossibly fast, when Gray knew where they were he destroyed them, and even when he didn't he was still fast enough to jump in front of Juvia. It was save Juvia or let her die, he made his choice. Your argument here honestly makes no sense to me, fighting Future Rogue doesn't prove Natsu wouldn't get killed in Gray's situation, he didn't tank any of his attacks, WSD Silk fucked him up, he just didn't get pierced through the brain like Gray did. And even if he did tank WSD Silk, it still wouldn't mean anything. The babies attacks were lethal because either Gray was already too trashed by that point, or because he got blindsided. Baby beams shouldn'y be stronger than or even comparable to an attack from Lyon, which Gray can normally tank.
• And that’s the problem I have with your argument. I think Gray would have a decent chance against LFD Natsu by virtue of his intelligence alone, so saying he is closer to Sting in power than Natsu is ridiculous to me. Pretty sure Rogue was just talking about LFD Natsu when he taunted Gajeel, since he supposedly knew he held something else back.

 

[Brandish μ]

This is what I considered:

> I flicked thru Kyria vs Erza (just to see how good Laxus' feat is), and I found Kyria to be someone who can give Erza a good go in CQC without ever pushing Erza to much really
> Kyria was able to take out Lucy with a roar - can Mira oneshot Lucy?
> Kyria can withstand an attack on the level of Belserion's sword, but below Roaring Thunder.
> Mira would probably do better against Erza and Laxus than Kyria did;
> Kyria was able to cut Erza's strength
> Mira has shown mental instability in this series. If Kyria cuts the mental strength Mira has since Lisanna returned, I'm pretty sure Mira's MP goes with it

A balance of that tips it in Kyria's favour imo, mainly because of that last point.

 

[Axiomus]

• Doesn’t make her stronger than Lyon, it just means she had more to give in that fight. Does it compensate? Didnt look like it. I follow your logic though.
• Teleporting that attack doesn’t really make her on par with LFD either.
• Erza didn't just collapse from her earlier injuries, she collapsed after the babies messed her up and aggravated those injuries, something that didn't happen to Gray. She was in a bad situation I'll grant you, probably more tired than Gray was, but on the other hand unlike Gray she didn't have to take a barrage of attacks to save a loved one. The babies aren't impossibly fast, when Gray knew where they were he destroyed them, and even when he didn't he was still fast enough to jump in front of Juvia. It was save Juvia or let her die, he made his choice. Your argument here honestly makes no sense to me, fighting Future Rogue doesn't prove Natsu wouldn't get killed in Gray's situation, he didn't tank any of his attacks, WSD Silk fucked him up, he just didn't get pierced through the brain like Gray did. And even if he did tank WSD Silk, it still wouldn't mean anything. The babies attacks were lethal because either Gray was already too trashed by that point, or because he got blindsided. Baby beams shouldn'y be stronger than or even comparable to an attack from Lyon, which Gray can normally tank.
• And that’s the problem I have with your argument. I think Gray would have a decent chance against LFD Natsu by virtue of his intelligence alone, so saying he is closer to Sting in power than Natsu is ridiculous to me. Pretty sure Rogue was just talking about LFD Natsu when he taunted Gajeel, since he supposedly knew he held something else back.

• Doesn't it? Lyon and everyone else recognized that Kagura never got serious in that fight. Kagura got serious against Erza because they were fighting to save Millianna, and then Kagura unsheathed her archnemesis sword....which is something she reserved for killing Jellal. Lyon honestly doesn't have anything in his arsenal that would suggest that he could block archnemesis, and then blitz Kagura. Then Minerva dropped a bunch of rocks on Kagura, which Erza saved her from. Then Minerva stabbed Kagura, and then Erza started fighting Minerva..Minerva blasted Erza a bunch of times before Erza managed to recompose herself, and cut her up. Only after all that did Erza release second origin, that gave her so much power that she completely outclassed Minerva.
• MInerva can essentially block an LFD punch. Her own nukes with the Yakuma 18 Battle Gods were arguably just as destructive as an LFD attack. Minerva then got a further power-up during Tartaros, and Erza beat her down with her bare fists before going on to continue her fight with Kyouka. Erza then beats Kyouka while deaf and blind, and Kyouka is stronger than Tempester. Natsu couldn't take out tempester with LFD.
• I don't see the Lyon's attacks as being stronger than the dragon babies. I do however see Sting's attacks as being on par with them. Like when Sting had his POF awakened, his attacks could blast holes in Jiemma. Future Rogue's WSD Silk should be a much stronger attack than that. Especially considering what Sting and Rogue's WSD could do to Jiemma. I think that Natsu being able to survive that and then going on to land shots on Motherglare is more impressive than getting done in by the babies.
  
  Spoiler: Sting's awakened powers, as a baseline

  
• I don't rate intelligence as that high of a factor in the first place. Most of Gray's attacks with ice-make can already be matched or overpowered by Natsu's attacks in base mode. A roar would overpower freeze lancer. something like wing attack or sword horn would match any of Gray's sword attacks, and there's really nothing in Gray's ice-make arsenal that rivals a secret art. LFD roar and Iron Hammer are attacks that further take it to the next level, and then that has a secret art on top of its own. To make a few comparisons: I don't think Natsu would have resorted to LFD if he had to fight Rufus. I think he would have stomped him with something like a sword horn before even resorting to his secret art. I also don't think Natsu would have required teamwork to beat Lyon and Chelia. Natsu probably would have kicked Gajeel off the bridge.

 

[Seven777]

• Doesn't it? Lyon and everyone else recognized that Kagura never got serious in that fight. Kagura got serious against Erza because they were fighting to save Millianna, and then Kagura unsheathed her archnemesis sword....which is something she reserved for killing Jellal. Lyon honestly doesn't have anything in his arsenal that would suggest that he could block archnemesis, and then blitz Kagura. Then Minerva dropped a bunch of rocks on Kagura, which Erza saved her from. Then Minerva stabbed Kagura, and then Erza started fighting Minerva..Minerva blasted Erza a bunch of times before Erza managed to recompose herself, and cut her up. Only after all that did Erza release second origin, that gave her so much power that she completely outclassed Minerva.
• MInerva can essentially block an LFD punch. Her own nukes with the Yakuma 18 Battle Gods were arguably just as destructive as an LFD attack. Minerva then got a further power-up during Tartaros, and Erza beat her down with her bare fists before going on to continue her fight with Kyouka. Erza then beats Kyouka while deaf and blind, and Kyouka is stronger than Tempester. Natsu couldn't take out tempester with LFD.
• I don't see the Lyon's attacks as being stronger than the dragon babies. I do however see Sting's attacks as being on par with them. Like when Sting had his POF awakened, his attacks could blast holes in Jiemma. Future Rogue's WSD Silk should be a much stronger attack than that. Especially considering what Sting and Rogue's WSD could do to Jiemma. I think that Natsu being able to survive that and then going on to land shots on Motherglare is more impressive than getting done in by the babies.
  
  Spoiler: Sting's awakened powers, as a baseline

  
• I don't rate intelligence as that high of a factor in the first place. Most of Gray's attacks with ice-make can already be matched or overpowered by Natsu's attacks in base mode. A roar would overpower freeze lancer. something like wing attack or sword horn would match any of Gray's sword attacks, and there's really nothing in Gray's ice-make arsenal that rivals a secret art. LFD roar and Iron Hammer are attacks that further take it to the next level, and then that has a secret art on top of its own. To make a few comparisons: I don't think Natsu would have resorted to LFD if he had to fight Rufus. I think he would have stomped him with something like a sword horn before even resorting to his secret art. I also don't think Natsu would have required teamwork to beat Lyon and Chelia. Natsu probably would have kicked Gajeel off the bridge.

• Not really, unless Lyon used up all his power in the fight, judging by his appearance afterwards the battle was mid diff for both of them. Kagura also noted the additional danger Lyon would have presented in a battle to the death, albeit for Miliana's sake. As for having something to block Archenemy, or blitz Kagura, he doesn't need it. Lyon's not really a CQC fighter. For the rest, Lyon is weaker than Erza, Gray isn't(not by much anyway). Tenrou Gray was more or less Erza tier already, given he defeated Ultear, the leader of the 7 Kin. SO Gray should scale up.
• Teleporting an attack isn't the same as blocking it. Minerva's nuke has size, but not damage, it's nowhere near LFD level. Erza beating Minerva with her crying fist doesn't impress me, especially when Minerva was the one who broke her sword in the first place. Beating Kyoka is good, but still Gray tier, more or less. As for Tempester, Natsu never got to finish his battle with him.
• I see literally every relevant fighter having stronger attacks than the dragon babies. Why? Because Gray can oneshot a whole group of them easily, he can't oneshot a group of Lyons for example. The Raijinshu are stronger than those Babies. Sting could oneshot Jiemma for the same reason the Babies could kill Gray, because he blindsided him. I'll say it again, Gray getting killed by them isn't a feat against him. You realize Gray is pretty much the only character(bar fodders) that actually died to the Babies? The only one. Are you telling me every other character in the manga just never got hit by any of their attacks? That all those injuries were just from them tripping and falling? Or are you saying Gray isn't on their level, just a fodder? This is why I'm saying your comparison with Natsu fighting Future Rogue is ridiculous, I could make the same argument for virtually any other fighter, I'll give you a few examples. "Cobra was fighting a dragon while Gray was getting killed by babies, obviously Cobra is way more impressive than Gray", repeat and sub in literally any other dragon slayer. Or Lucy managed to fight 2 of the 9 Demon Gates without dying, while Gray got killed by babies, obviously Lucy is way more impressive than Gray. Or Juvia was tanking attacks from Keth, while Gray was getting killed by Babies, obviously Juvia is way stronger. I could literally make a dozen more of these in half as many minutes, do you get what I mean?
• I do, at least for Gray, he uses it too consistently for me not to, even when fighting Natsu as END. For Natsu, I don't think he'd need LFD to beat Rufus either, I do think he'd need teamwork to beat Lyon and Chelia. LFD Natsu is stronger than Gray, but I think Gray could overcome it with intelligence.

 

[Ebony Maw]

I'm still unsure of why Kyria isn't just waving her arm and cutting Mira's strength like she did with Erza. Kyria is mid-diffing at worst

Still Red lightning is his best spell so far. If it was not described as "the lighting that goes beyond lightning "then i will believe in what your talking.

Why would Red Lightning be better than his Secret Art?

Lightning beyond lightning may not even be talking about strength either. Its primary point was that Wahl's Weakness Magic couldn't adapt to it in time due to its unusual properties. As far as it killing Wahl goes I don't see why any mid/high-tier spell from Laxus wouldn't. He was already hyped by August as being able to kill Ajeel with a casual nuke, and Machias are particularly weak to electric. Red Lightning was just electric that Wahl couldn't block because his Weakness Magic couldn't adapt.

Regardless, even if Red Lightning is the better spell Kyria still survived an attack that should/would kill any 'regular' Spriggan. Mira is not even approaching the level of power that's killing Spriggans in one hit, so a fight between her and Kyria is going to be far more equal than Laxus vs Kyria was.

If Jacob didnt use the "transport" against Mirajane then he cant not use it according to your reasoning. Using his transport is easier than torturing his self with Mirajane seductive body. They are in war remember? And they have to win no matter what.

The comparison doesn't work. Jacob has already proven he can Transport those above Mira's tier by catching Brandish with it. Horologium even saved Natsu from it, so there's reason to believe that base Natsu would be snatched by Transport too.

On the other hand we have seen Mira's Macro fail on fodder. Why should I believe it would work on Kyria?

J & H were both swords that were enchanted. Meaning Irene can only control them not anyone else. Not even macro can cancel the enchantment. Or you beat them by force to the point that it will cancel the enchantment.

Macro has affected inanimate objects and people. J/H are just inanimate objects enchanted with personalities, so we have little reason to believe this would change.

Well the last time i check Nakagami armor also use vast amount of magic am i right? She use it against Minerva only.

Spoiler

She used it on Ajeel too.

My point is that Mira couldn't quickly beat J/H without Alegria, and we know Alegria takes a lot of MP. If she requires Alegria to stomp J/H then she's needing it to content with Kyria - so far Kyria's only been solidly beat by Laxus. Erza only gained the upper hand on her once and that was after Kyria's main advantage (hax) was rendered null. If Mira needs Alegria, and Alegria drains enough MP to make Mira feel exhausted just from putting down J/H, its going to tire her quickly against someone like Kyria.

Even if Kyria commit a suicide she will not scratch Laxus. Tempesta has better showing than her.

This is even worse than the Transport/Macro comparison...

Kyria committing suicide would do nothing, but not because she's inferior to Tempesta, but because she's not releasing MBPs upon death. As it stands Kyria would stomp Tempesta into into the ground. Kyria is in no way inferior to Tempesta in feats, she could at least contend somewhat with Alvarez/100YQ Laxus, meanwhile Tempesta was annihilated by Tartaros Laxus and then killed by an unhealthy Tartaros Laxus (if we're using anime feats at least, which you seem to be).

I would like to point out here that Tempesta's MBPs only did so much damage because Laxus was essentially forced to eat them. If it weren't for that Tempesta would be looking even worse here.

But still everyone who see Mirajane were cast to Sleep. They are just so many. And they have Wall bot who can exploite weaknesses. So there you have.

No, we have no idea whether or not the ones that resisted Macro were affected by Wahl's weakness Magic. There's no implication that the ones who resisted were special in any way, Lisanna simply said some hadn't fallen asleep and Mira wasn't shocked or anything, she just said they would have to make them sleep (AKA beat the shit out of them). This strongly suggests that Macro has limits.

Kyria one shotting lucy who basically has low MP and Wendy who was not using her dragon force was not impressive at all.

Why does MP come into this? Lucy getting one-shotted has nothing to do with her MP, its a feat that demonstrates Kyria's destructive output. Would like to point out btw that Lucy's MP in hardly 'low', the feat of evaporating water that everyone seems to rate so highly was done by Lucy during Tartaros. It wasn't on the same scale as Alegria Mira but someone with 'low MP' isn't evaporating water.

Also you can say its not impressive but its better than what Mira's done. Her best feat as of recently has been taking out J/H, Spriggan subordinates. This could change with upcoming chapters, but as of now that's it. Kyria on the other hand has one-shotted Lucy and Wendy, contended with Erza and had a decently long fight against Laxus.

Can we say that Mirajane was being generous enough? Since Jura is still part of wizard saint. The only thing that she was not sure. Meaning shes only 50/50 about beating Jura at that time.

Even if she was being generous she's still clearly saying that Jura is her superior by quite a bit. At the time she said that Laxus was in the same tier. Laxus as of Alvarez/100YQ murders Jura. Hype from GMG Laxus is doing Mira no favours here, GMG is just too outdated on the power scale.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

hypnosis most likely wouldn't work on Mirajane now tbh.

Why? The only counter is already feeling weak, and Mira has little to no reason to feel weak.

 

[Demon Hunter]

Why? The only counter is already feeling weak, and Mira has little to no reason to feel weak.

considering her history, I'm pretty sure she would view herself weak

 

[Ebony Maw]

considering her history, I'm pretty sure she would view herself weak

Eh, the only thing that might make her feel weak is trauma from Lisanna's death. Even then probably not, seeing as not only is Lisanna alive but she's (Mira) also highly revered in the guild.

Then again fucking Laxus feels weak so you never know... (Kyria was robbed, that shit is some "because its Erza" tier crap)

 

[Demon Hunter]

Then again fucking Laxus feels weak so you never know... (Kyria was robbed, that shit is some "because its Erza" tier crap)

I can actually buy that if they meant about his FF arc stuff being all soft and weak instead all mighty.

unfortunately, 100y quest isn't on Crunchyroll so I don't have official translation about this heart thingy.

 

[Ebony Maw]

I can actually buy that if they meant about his FF arc stuff being all soft and weak instead all mighty.

unfortunately, 100y quest isn't on Crunchyroll so I don't have official translation about this heart thingy.

IDK, his beef in FF was that the guild was weak, not that he was. The only thing that might make sense is if he's secretly insecure about being a 'fake' Dragon Slayer, but there's never really been hints about that.

And agreed, I don't have official scans either yet but hopefully they'll clear this up. Don't think its going to make this any less BS though, this is Fairy Tail after all!

 

[Demon Hunter]

IDK, his beef in FF was that the guild was weak, not that he was. The only thing that might make sense is if he's secretly insecure about being a 'fake' Dragon Slayer, but there's never really been hints about that.

And agreed, I don't have official scans either yet but hopefully they'll clear this up. Don't think its going to make this any less BS though, this is Fairy Tail after all!

yeah, true.

my headcanon is, like he said, this guild is weak and since he is in it then he is weak as well.

that makes the most sense.

this arc started good but this mind control makes no sense anymore. Jellal being all lovely with Erza even though he is compelled to destroy the orb, Laxus says he likes his guild but he still does what Touka tells him to do, Natsu dies but he doesn't die, Cana was too drunk to be controlled and yet she destroyed the orb etc.

 

[Jko]

Mira is the most humble FT member. You can't convince me that Laxus' views himself as weak and she doesn't. Plus Mira's macro is better than Kyria's hypnosis. And Mira's activates with a thought while Kyria has to swing her arm. Mira wins this easily.

 

[Demon Hunter]

Mira is the most humble FT member. You can't convince me that Laxus' views himself as weak and she doesn't. Plus Mira's macro is better than Kyria's hypnosis. And Mira's activates with a thought while Kyria has to swing her arm. Mira wins this easily.

hey we probably agree on something (other than EZ)

 

[MangerDan]

Mirajane just needs to hit as hard as Erza and have a weak heart to win.

 

[Sevently]

Kyria is low spriggan tier. Mirajane should win high/extreme diff.

 

[Ebony Maw]

Mira is the most humble FT member. You can't convince me that Laxus' views himself as weak and she doesn't.

While I do agree Laxus feeling weak is BS (dude is literally the most powerful guy in FT aside from DF Natsu/Gildarts), being humble doesn't necessarily mean you view yourself as weak. Weaker than you actually are? Maybe, but not weak. That being said I also accept that what you're arguing could be the case.

Laxus' recent shit has really messed up Kyria's hypnosis' reputation lmao, the argument of being weak could be used for a large majority of the good guys in FT.

Mirajane just needs to hit as hard as Erza and have a weak heart to win.

Eh, saying you need to hit harder than Erza is underselling Kyria's durability. It took a Secret Art from Laxus to KO her and she looked to be able to fight even after getting hit with Erza's Flame Empress/Belserion attack. Not saying Mira can't hurt Kyria but saying you only have to hit harder than Erza is a bit much.

 

[Axiomus]

• Not really, unless Lyon used up all his power in the fight, judging by his appearance afterwards the battle was mid diff for both of them. Kagura also noted the additional danger Lyon would have presented in a battle to the death, albeit for Miliana's sake. As for having something to block Archenemy, or blitz Kagura, he doesn't need it. Lyon's not really a CQC fighter. For the rest, Lyon is weaker than Erza, Gray isn't(not by much anyway). Tenrou Gray was more or less Erza tier already, given he defeated Ultear, the leader of the 7 Kin. SO Gray should scale up.
• Teleporting an attack isn't the same as blocking it. Minerva's nuke has size, but not damage, it's nowhere near LFD level. Erza beating Minerva with her crying fist doesn't impress me, especially when Minerva was the one who broke her sword in the first place. Beating Kyoka is good, but still Gray tier, more or less. As for Tempester, Natsu never got to finish his battle with him.
• I see literally every relevant fighter having stronger attacks than the dragon babies. Why? Because Gray can oneshot a whole group of them easily, he can't oneshot a group of Lyons for example. The Raijinshu are stronger than those Babies. Sting could oneshot Jiemma for the same reason the Babies could kill Gray, because he blindsided him. I'll say it again, Gray getting killed by them isn't a feat against him. You realize Gray is pretty much the only character(bar fodders) that actually died to the Babies? The only one. Are you telling me every other character in the manga just never got hit by any of their attacks? That all those injuries were just from them tripping and falling? Or are you saying Gray isn't on their level, just a fodder? This is why I'm saying your comparison with Natsu fighting Future Rogue is ridiculous, I could make the same argument for virtually any other fighter, I'll give you a few examples. "Cobra was fighting a dragon while Gray was getting killed by babies, obviously Cobra is way more impressive than Gray", repeat and sub in literally any other dragon slayer. Or Lucy managed to fight 2 of the 9 Demon Gates without dying, while Gray got killed by babies, obviously Lucy is way more impressive than Gray. Or Juvia was tanking attacks from Keth, while Gray was getting killed by Babies, obviously Juvia is way stronger. I could literally make a dozen more of these in half as many minutes, do you get what I mean?
• I do, at least for Gray, he uses it too consistently for me not to, even when fighting Natsu as END. For Natsu, I don't think he'd need LFD to beat Rufus either, I do think he'd need teamwork to beat Lyon and Chelia. LFD Natsu is stronger than Gray, but I think Gray could overcome it with intelligence.

Sure. Again, I can't really be bothered to argue about pre-Alvarez power levels at this point. If you think GMG Gray is on SO Erza's level, and that the victory over Silver was legit, then that would make him stronger than GMG Mirajane too.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 24, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 24, 2019 ---

While I do agree Laxus feeling weak is BS (dude is literally the most powerful guy in FT aside from DF Natsu/Gildarts), being humble doesn't necessarily mean you view yourself as weak. Weaker than you actually are? Maybe, but not weak. That being said I also accept that what you're arguing could be the case.

Laxus' recent shit has really messed up Kyria's hypnosis' reputation lmao, the argument of being weak could be used for a large majority of the good guys in FT.

Eh, saying you need to hit harder than Erza is underselling Kyria's durability. It took a Secret Art from Laxus to KO her and she looked to be able to fight even after getting hit with Erza's Flame Empress/Belserion attack. Not saying Mira can't hurt Kyria but saying you only have to hit harder than Erza is a bit much.

Easiest way to settle this is simply to look at how Mirajane handles Skullion/Madmole. She should at least be able to beat Madmole if she wants to beat Kyria. I'm pretty sure oneshotting is out of the question though. Erza and Laxus did not oneshot Kyria.

 

[Ebony Maw]

Easiest way to settle this is simply to look at how Mirajane handles Skullion/Madmole. She should at least be able to beat Madmole if she wants to beat Kyria. I'm pretty sure oneshotting is out of the question though. Erza and Laxus did not oneshot Kyria.

Agreed.

All I'm arguing is that currently I don't see Mira beating her.

 

[IamtherealMirajane]

I'm still unsure of why Kyria isn't just waving her arm and cutting Mira's strength like she did with Erza. Kyria is mid-diffing at worst

Why would Red Lightning be better than his Secret Art?

Lightning beyond lightning may not even be talking about strength either. Its primary point was that Wahl's Weakness Magic couldn't adapt to it in time due to its unusual properties. As far as it killing Wahl goes I don't see why any mid/high-tier spell from Laxus wouldn't. He was already hyped by August as being able to kill Ajeel with a casual nuke, and Machias are particularly weak to electric. Red Lightning was just electric that Wahl couldn't block because his Weakness Magic couldn't adapt.

Regardless, even if Red Lightning is the better spell Kyria still survived an attack that should/would kill any 'regular' Spriggan. Mira is not even approaching the level of power that's killing Spriggans in one hit, so a fight between her and Kyria is going to be far more equal than Laxus vs Kyria was.

The comparison doesn't work. Jacob has already proven he can Transport those above Mira's tier by catching Brandish with it. Horologium even saved Natsu from it, so there's reason to believe that base Natsu would be snatched by Transport too.

On the other hand we have seen Mira's Macro fail on fodder. Why should I believe it would work on Kyria?

Macro has affected inanimate objects and people. J/H are just inanimate objects enchanted with personalities, so we have little reason to believe this would change.

Spoiler

She used it on Ajeel too.

My point is that Mira couldn't quickly beat J/H without Alegria, and we know Alegria takes a lot of MP. If she requires Alegria to stomp J/H then she's needing it to content with Kyria - so far Kyria's only been solidly beat by Laxus. Erza only gained the upper hand on her once and that was after Kyria's main advantage (hax) was rendered null. If Mira needs Alegria, and Alegria drains enough MP to make Mira feel exhausted just from putting down J/H, its going to tire her quickly against someone like Kyria.

This is even worse than the Transport/Macro comparison...

Kyria committing suicide would do nothing, but not because she's inferior to Tempesta, but because she's not releasing MBPs upon death. As it stands Kyria would stomp Tempesta into into the ground. Kyria is in no way inferior to Tempesta in feats, she could at least contend somewhat with Alvarez/100YQ Laxus, meanwhile Tempesta was annihilated by Tartaros Laxus and then killed by an unhealthy Tartaros Laxus (if we're using anime feats at least, which you seem to be).

I would like to point out here that Tempesta's MBPs only did so much damage because Laxus was essentially forced to eat them. If it weren't for that Tempesta would be looking even worse here.

No, we have no idea whether or not the ones that resisted Macro were affected by Wahl's weakness Magic. There's no implication that the ones who resisted were special in any way, Lisanna simply said some hadn't fallen asleep and Mira wasn't shocked or anything, she just said they would have to make them sleep (AKA beat the shit out of them). This strongly suggests that Macro has limits.

Why does MP come into this? Lucy getting one-shotted has nothing to do with her MP, its a feat that demonstrates Kyria's destructive output. Would like to point out btw that Lucy's MP in hardly 'low', the feat of evaporating water that everyone seems to rate so highly was done by Lucy during Tartaros. It wasn't on the same scale as Alegria Mira but someone with 'low MP' isn't evaporating water.

Also you can say its not impressive but its better than what Mira's done. Her best feat as of recently has been taking out J/H, Spriggan subordinates. This could change with upcoming chapters, but as of now that's it. Kyria on the other hand has one-shotted Lucy and Wendy, contended with Erza and had a decently long fight against Laxus.

Even if she was being generous she's still clearly saying that Jura is her superior by quite a bit. At the time she said that Laxus was in the same tier. Laxus as of Alvarez/100YQ murders Jura. Hype from GMG Laxus is doing Mira no favours here, GMG is just too outdated on the power scale.
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Why? The only counter is already feeling weak, and Mira has little to no reason to feel weak.

Kyria changed Erza's personality using her hypnosis. Current Mirajane personality is already her weakest one and she never went back to normal (her punkish and tomboyish attitude) . The only thing returned is her immense magical power. Thats why i dont think Kyria's hypnosis will work against Mirajane. Because by heart Mirajane is already weak due to past trauma she experienced before.

I might believe you if Kyria will fight the old Mirajane (her punkish attitude) then there something to cut there.

Red lightining killed Whal. Secret art did not kill anyone. I dont need to repeat myself. If you cant get it. Then im sorry.

Macro failed because it cant be use to many people at the same time. And Gray admitted that Alvarez soldiers are way stronger than the one they fought before. And Mirajane use it on 30 soldiers at least. Kyria is only one. 30>1. Just like fairy law it has certain limitations on numbers of enemies. Or else you will compensate it by your life energy. Like what you said Mirajane already expected that some of them will not be affected. Because it was already use to 30 soldiers in the front.

- demon superiority so far is macro's weakness and numbers of people being macroed at the same time.

J & H are swords that were enchanted with personalites they are different from inanimate object or person since they are already being controlled from the very start and possibly there already enchantment casted to them for protection if someone will try to control them. This is not a far fetch since they were considered by Irene as her children and her lieutenants. They even belittling Makarov's MP (which one of diabolo's member, wraith, find higher than his MP) and they also beat Satan Soul and tanked the bigger version of Evil Explosion like it was nothing. Yet Jacob was defeated by Satan Soul in a single strike. Even Mirajane was shocked that there someone capable of high enchantment. Like what i said before Irene has the full control against J & H because she was their creator and they will only listen to her. Even macro will likely fail to control them. Because it was a high enchantment. Unless you beat them by force until the enchantment is lifted or beat the enchantress itself. Irene even personally went to Mirajane's location even she saw Erza at that time.

- take note: Jacob was durable enough to take multiple hits from lucy (Taurus-clad and Lucy's kick (leo stardress), Natsu (series of fire dragon's claw), Leo's regulus light, Makarov (giant punch) ----but was only beaten by Natsu's blaze dragon king demolition fist.

Even Seilah has not use macro on enchanted personalities before.

If Laxus already hype Mirajane in her Sitri form. Then Mirajane already has Seilah (limit release form) who can oneshotted Sitri, and Alegria who oneshotted J & H to the point that the enchantment was lifted. Its MP Alone evaporated the sea nearby. Which J & H find it ridiculous. I think that's already a feat considering they were with Irene all the time who was renowned due to tremendous aptitude of her MP - yet Mirajane in her Alegria form managed to terrify them. They even consider Mirajane as Monster. Meaning Current Mirajane is >>>>>> GMG Mirajane. I still believe that Laxus will still hype Mirajane even until now. Lucy, Leo, Virgo, Gray and even Natsu are still hyping Mirajane.

Even Skullion was not able to low diffed BSS, yet he was able do the same to DeS Gray ( yes this is debatable since the fight was mostly off paneled. and we havent seen Skullion use the black ash and absolute ash) but still this already a feat considering BSS is her weakest form.

Now if Mirajane is serious against lucy she can most likely one shot her using stronger spell or stronger takeover. In her fight against lucy. Mirajane never use stronger spell like Evil explosion or soul extinction or stronger takeover. I even doubt if she lay her hands against lucy. Because even shes being controlled by Touka her personality did not change. She even went mad against Skullion for erasing gemini- lisanna even lucy was terrified on Mirajane's aura. And she only tied Leo and Virgo (Mirajane nevert meant to hurt them from the very start). And you never see Mirajane that way when lucy beat the real lisanna. Now if you cant see my point then again im sorry.

Even Jellal was not serious against fighting Erza to the point that hes willing to protect Erza from Laxus and Kyria.