Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

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Shinuki no Reborn

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MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #51 - VOTING!​

The poll for issue #51 is now open, vote for your favorite chapters of the week clicking HERE!

Alongside the release of Sakamoto Days, the extra series this week are:

-Dragon Ball Super 66
-Boruto: Naruto Next Generations 52
-Ghost Reaper Girl 10


Good Votes!
 
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Halloween

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Moderator Notice:
Henceforth, I will be deleting posts that complain about Weekly Shonen Jump having too many/not enough gag/battle/exorcism/sports/etc series.

These posts are not insightful, and do not meaningfully contribute to this thread. Also, this decision is not up for discussion, so posts discussing this decision will also be deleted.~ Halloween
 
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Ryuusei

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呪 僕 O マ ブ S C D 破 C B 夜 C 僕 あ 灼 ぼ チ 高 ア 森 A 仄 ぼ 次号カラー ヒロアカ アンデラ 夜桜 約ネバ 道産子 GIGA 岸本先生が描くコラボポスター 爆豪クリアファイル
Jujutsu Kaisen (Cover & LCP)
My Hero Academia
One Piece
Mashle
Black Clover
Sakamoto Days (CP)
Dr. Stone
Magu-chan: God of Destruction (CP)
Build King
Mission: Yozakura Family
Me & Roboco
Ayakashi Triangle (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai
We Never Learn
Chainsaw Man
Koukousei Kazoku
Undead Unluck
Moriking
Agravity Boys
Honomieru Shounen
Bokura no Ketsumei

Issue #1
Cover & LCP: My Hero Academia
CP: Undead Unluck, Mission: Yozakura Family, The Promised Neverland, Dosanko Gyaru wa Namaramenkoi

GIGA Preview
Collab poster by Kishimoto
Bakugou clear file
 
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tirakai

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It only really fits as sport in the sense that's it definitely not battle shounen, romcom, or gag. Otherwise you can't really put it there at all. Character dramas their own entire genre. Heck, Acting drama is really a mini-genre in itself, Glass Mask, Skip Beat, Kaleido Star, Seiyuu academy, tenshi to akuto, are some of the one's I've read a bit of. You could probably throw in the modelling manga and a lot of Idol anime/manga (the ones with a bit of drama that aren't just moe/gag stuff) for a whole celebrity/performance arts drama genre if you wanted to make it a big thing.

That said though, the current arc has been pretty battle-shounen-esque. More than it's ever felt like a sports shounen aside from the one audition in the intro chapters.
 

yadayada

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It only really fits as sport in the sense that's it definitely not battle shounen, romcom, or gag. Otherwise you can't really put it there at all. Character dramas their own entire genre. Heck, Acting drama is essentially a genre. Glass Mask, Skip Beat, Kaleido Star, Seiyuu academy, tenshi to akuto, are some of the one's I've read a bit of. You could probably throw in the modelling manga too for a whole celebrity drama kind of thing.

That said though, the current arc has been pretty battle-shounen-esque. More than it's ever felt like a sports shounen aside from the one audition in the intro chapters.
The audition early on and the small competition for the island movie and the whole series being about Yonagi growing as an actress definitely fit the boxes if you really want to put it somewhere.
Like I said, it's forced, but you can do it if you really want to put it somewhere.
 

tirakai

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If you really want to put it somewhere, then it goes in the character drama genre, not sports. There are more than 4 genres and right now it's closer to battle shounen than the other 3 common wsj ones.
 

yadayada

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If you really want to put it somewhere, then it goes in the character drama genre, not sports. There are more than 4 genres.
I agree, but we were talking about there being 4 big categories in jump, weren't we? Obviously if you look at the bigger picture there are genres it would fit more.
I was just saying act-age being put in sports isn't too crazy within that context.
 

Thundercat27

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Karuta is a competitive sport of sorts (the mind-focused type, like chess or mahjong or poker), at least it's treated that way in Chihayafuru.

For an example from this magazine you've got Shokugeki which is about cooking, that's not a sport at all, but because it's clearly structure as a sports series with one-on-one cook-offs being the core of the series it fits pretty well as a sports manga. Act-age however doesn't follow that sort of structure at all, it's a character drama. Even when there's competitive elements the competition part really doesn't matter and gets little focus.

The way I've always seen Jump is

battle shounen (usually 8-11 series I think)
sports (usually 1-3)
romcoms (usually 1-2)
gag (usually 1-2 these days)
and other stuff not-standard for Jump that adds a bit more variety to the roster (usually 1-3)

the other series will dip into the core 4 genres sometimes (like Dr Stone mixing battle arcs and more pure crafting arcs) but We've always had at least a manga or 2 that's distinctly not one of the main 4 types.
This. The defining element of sport is a direct competition with proper winner and loser.
Go and karute are game that in a competitive manner still considering sport.
Back to act-age. Who is the winner in acting? Who was the winner during the galatic railway arc?
 
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Chuck_Atlas

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This. The defining element of sport is direct competition with proper winner and loser.
Go and karute are game that in a competitive manner still considering sport.
Back to act-age. Who is the winner in acting? Who was the winner in during the galatic railway arc?
The true winner is obviously Iwao-sensei :emocat
 
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Thores

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I don’t have a take on Act-Age right now because I haven’t read enough of it, but on the subject of “it’s not a sport manga if it’s not about a literal sport”:

In my eyes, Bakuman is 1000% a sports manga, even though being a mangaka is absolutely not a sport.

Not only does it have the same progression of a spokon, along with many of its genre conventions, but the main thing that drives the story is the element of competition. The protagonists start at the bottom of the table of contents, and have to “defeat” other mangas in the magazine for their series to be successful. This leads to them continuing to improve at their craft so they may best their rivals and achieve their goals, the story teaching the reader about that craft as it goes along. It even has tournament arcs, like the cast actually participating in the Golden Future Cup.

I don’t know whether or not Act-Age is a sports manga (the lack of a competition element other posters keep mentioning makes me maybe lean towards no), but sports manga can, without a doubt, be about things that aren’t sports. It’s a genre, and some genres evolve past the definition of the word initially used to describe them.
 

savethecat

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I don’t have a take on Act-Age right now because I haven’t read enough of it, but on the subject of “it’s not a sport manga if it’s not about a literal sport”:

In my eyes, Bakuman is 1000% a sports manga, even though being a mangaka is absolutely not a sport.

Not only does it have the same progression of a spokon, along with many of its genre conventions, but the main thing that drives the story is the element of competition. The protagonists start at the bottom of the table of contents, and have to “defeat” other mangas in the magazine for their series to be successful. This leads to them continuing to improve at their craft so they may best their rivals and achieve their goals, the story teaching the reader about that craft as it goes along. It even has tournament arcs, like the cast actually participating in the Golden Future Cup.

I don’t know whether or not Act-Age is a sports manga (the lack of a competition element other posters keep mentioning makes me maybe lean towards no), but sports manga can, without a doubt, be about things that aren’t sports. It’s a genre, and some genres evolve past the definition of the word initially used to describe them.
i think this POV muddies the water too much.
Someone could just as easily argue the a Sports manga is technically the same as a battle manga because there are training arcs, antagonist, and “battles” on the court/field/ring/etc.

If someone is trying to get into Bakuman, describing it to them as a sports manga is absolutely false advertising. Some manga readers who aren’t into sports may just read sports manga because they like the characters and writing.
But there are absolutely manga readers out there who start reading Slam Dunk and Kuroko No Basket BECAUSE they love basketball. Or start reading Haikyuu BECAUSE they love Vollyball.
So I would say that if the series isn’t about playing a sport it is 100% not a sports manga
 
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WyldViolet

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The weird thing about this argument is there actually are acting competitions/awards for winning.

Plus, if we go outside the realm of what would be "traditional" acting; team based activities like Comedy Sportz (Whose Line Is It Anyways) can absolutely be considered a sport.
 
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Thores

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Unless Kimetsu


i think this POV muddies the water too much.
Someone could just as easily argue the a Sports manga is technically the same as a battle manga because there are training arcs, antagonist, and “battles” on the court/field/ring/etc.

If someone is trying to get into Bakuman, describing it to them as a sports manga is absolutely false advertising. Some manga readers who aren’t into sports may just read sports manga because they like the characters and writing.
But there are absolutely manga readers out there who start reading Slam Dunk and Kuroko No Basket BECAUSE they love basketball. Or start reading Haikyuu BECAUSE they love Vollyball.
So I would say that if the series isn’t about playing a sport it is 100% not a sports manga
You have to ignore far more conventions of sports manga than I have to make the “battle manga and sports manga are the same” generalization. To start, sports manga are much more grounded in reality than battle manga, and based off of real life activities and hobbies. Both of these things still apply to Bakuman.

I’m not sure if I understand the second part of your argument, that whether or not something is a sports manga should be defined by its audience. I read Bakuman BECAUSE I love the manga industry, so if the qualifier is that it has to draw in people that enjoy the activity in question, Bakuman still qualifies.

On top of that, someone who loves basketball might not be interested in Haikyuu, a volleyball manga. That doesn’t mean that Haikyuu isn’t a sports manga. Just because I wouldn’t recommend Bakuman to that person either doesn’t eliminate the fact that Bakuman follows pretty much every sports manga convention to a tee, and is as compelling as it is because it treats a mundane subject like manga creation as if it were a sport.
 

Thundercat27

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A better term for sport manga should be competition manga, in which characters try to better themselves to win competition. In that sense, I can see food wars and bakuman with their constant competitions to be in the same category with haikyuu.
Act-Age however is not a manga revolve around competition. It's a story about Yonagi growth as a actress with endgame being the director's dream movie.
 

OniluapL

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Sports manga are complicated, because, while I agree with Thores that, yeah, Bakuman follow a lot of the conventions of the genre (and I made that argument myself elsewhere), there are many manga about actual sports that doesn't reaaaally follow said conventions, being much more focused on slice of life, psychological drama or any other aspect. It's a weird genre in which the superficial aspect (what the subject is) ends with being more relevant to its classification than structure, tropes or progression. You can have two series about baseball (for instance) that have more differences between them than a series about baseball and other about cooking like Soma or whatever. But the two baseball series would definitely be considered sports manga.

So, in the end, I think it's worthwhile to use that lens in a analytical manner, to see what conventions a manga such as Bakuman, Soma (or, in less intensity, even Act-Age) is following, because I think there is definitely a convergence there, but it's not actually useful to use it as a recommendation or an organization method, because it would just get confusing. I do which there was a better way to categorize it, or a more comprehensive name, but alas.
 

Xzone

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Unless kimetsu...?
The quick reply boX remember your draft (like e-maiils) .He probably had written without finishing a post about kimetsu, and when he did a touch the reply bottom to quick reply something , he forgot to erase that line.
 

yadayada

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The quick reply boX remember your draft (like e-maiils) .He probably had written without finishing a post about kimetsu, and when he did a touch the reply bottom to quick reply something , he forgot to erase that line.
Ah that makes sense.
 

Blue Rock

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A sports manga is a manga about sports. I am not sure why you're trying to redefine it. A manga about cooking competition, manga creation or acting is not a sports manga, because those things are not considered sports. Whether or not they've competition elements is not relevant. Like it has already been said, battle mangas also have competition elements, are they sports manga too?

Using 'competition manga' to describe series like Bakuman, Shokugeki no Soma or majority of sports manga is ok. But saying 'competition manga' is a better term for 'sports manga' is also not true. While most of the sports series are about competitive sports, a manga about non-competitive sports (like mountain climbing, fishing, etc.) would still be a sports manga.
 

animeexpert

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Karuta isn't a sport either but Chihayafuru is considered a sports manga.
Same for hikaru no go I guess.

If you want to put it somewhere it's definitely where it'd go and you can draw similarities between AA and the spokon genre, although like I said, it's pretty forced.
It was mentioned in the manga of AA that acting ISNT an sport, idk why people want to force it as sport.

Yes it has competition but there isnt a rule when you ACT
 

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What is Comedy Sportz then? Is that not a team based competitive acting sport?
 

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I don’t have a take on Act-Age right now because I haven’t read enough of it, but on the subject of “it’s not a sport manga if it’s not about a literal sport”:

In my eyes, Bakuman is 1000% a sports manga, even though being a mangaka is absolutely not a sport.

Not only does it have the same progression of a spokon, along with many of its genre conventions, but the main thing that drives the story is the element of competition. The protagonists start at the bottom of the table of contents, and have to “defeat” other mangas in the magazine for their series to be successful. This leads to them continuing to improve at their craft so they may best their rivals and achieve their goals, the story teaching the reader about that craft as it goes along. It even has tournament arcs, like the cast actually participating in the Golden Future Cup.

I don’t know whether or not Act-Age is a sports manga (the lack of a competition element other posters keep mentioning makes me maybe lean towards no), but sports manga can, without a doubt, be about things that aren’t sports. It’s a genre, and some genres evolve past the definition of the word initially used to describe them.
Ehh.. drawing manga ain't an sport sweety
 

yadayada

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It was mentioned in the manga of AA that acting ISNT an sport, idk why people want to force it as sport.

Yes it has competition but there isnt a rule when you ACT
Of course it is not a sport, that was never the point.
 
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