I brought up two other statements about nerfs as well. Wendy healed for an entire day and Erza didn't have damage markers on her so your entire point is moot. The statement held more weight than the injuries shown. She was looked to be fine but she wasn't which is why it was noted she was injured (thus weakened).
We don't what type of problems those injuries had on her. It not like Skullion did organ damage to Mira when she had few scratches. You expect me to believe Skulllion somehow did interior damage without touching her some of those bruises are from her previous fight against Erza.
Never mentioned using a DeS spell, if Gray or Cana specifically mentioned DeS magic i would be more inclined to believe it was a hint. As it stands, Cana being doubtful over Gray being able to freeze Mira because he couldn't freeze Skullion, just seems like Mashima saying they're comparable in power. No reference to the specific spell Gray used was made, and we know Gray was not suggesting using Zeroth Longsword because he wanted to get them all at once.
Gray has shown he was more than willing to take any of them on without the rest holding them back, so no, his hype doesn't mean he's weaker.
No false equivalence, and not dishonest in the slightest, don't pretend to know my motivations and keep your accusations to yourself. I mentioned a caveat in my last comment if you cared to read it, and its completely true. It comes down to whether the power Gray expends is greater than the strength Mirajane has remaining. If Mira is at half strength due to injuries and Gray only uses half strength to win, then he is winning regardless. It'll be up to the readers to give their opinion on how much strength Gray expended and how injured Mirajane was in that fight. Mashima might make it obvious and he might not, but I'm not going to be call any victory here an "empty victory"
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Oh and people want feats for Mira and not Gray because Gray has earned a certain level of benefit when in doubt due to his regular performance in the manga, while Mira on the other hand has accrued mostly doubt with hers. There’s no bias, Mira is well loved, most people have simply tempered their expectations with considerations of her past performance.
Gray used a DeS spell to freeze Skullion so why would it not be considered when they refer to him not being able to freeze Skullion? That makes 0 sense. Also Cana and Gray know that Gray is a DeS and Mira turns into demons. Therefore them just being comparable in power makes no sense since DeS has an advantage over demons. So even if they are comparable in power Gray having an advantage over her would be something that should be mentioned right off the bat. Why would Cana and Gray just gloss over the fact that he's a demon slayer and she's a demon when they are talking about taking her down? That's not even twisting or over analyzing at this point. So yes there is a HINT, not a confirmation that Mirajane is more resistant to him than people here thought. His Ice make silver and Zeroth long sword both are used in his DeS form.
Yeah but he easily lost to Skullion who she tied with in her weakest form so that more than hints that Gray is weaker than both her and Skullion right now. If he was so sure, Cana or no Cana, he would have gone ahead with what he planned. Him agreeing that he couldn't freeze her, agreeing that she could beat Skullion and him lamenting having to deal with her and Skullion one time and then another when he complained about having to deal with Laxus, Mirajane, Jellal and Gajeel, all point to Mirajane being superior to him.
No it's not up to readers to say how weak either is. That is dishonest. Whether you did it on purpose or not, idc. Saying that Mirajane and Gray are presently exhausted and injured to the same extent is blatantly false. Gray has literally said that she is very injured. Gray himself is not very injured and we know that Mirajane fought more and fought more powerful foes than Gray and unlike him she did not rest. This doesn't even make sense. Idk why people are so bent on pretending that Gray is more than he is right now to the point of blatantly altering facts but it's not a good look.
Nope, she is not badly injured to the point where she can't move or continue fighting. If she can't fight with few bruises it just proves her endurance is pathetic nothing else. She can move her arm and legs just fine and her higher form gives her stats boost. She can easily fight with a few bruises.
She is badly injured. PERIOD. Gray is not and Gray admits that he was waiting for her to be quite injured to take her. It's not up for debate. Moving her legs or whatever is your own little headcanon. If one character is badly injured and another is not that injured and they battle that is not a fair fight. So sorry to break it to you all but if Gray who is near fresh beats a very injured Mira who just tied with someone who beat him mid diff, this doesn't prove that Gray = Mira or Gray > Mirajane in terms of power. Heck it doesn't even prove that he would beat her because of his DeS.
Bottom line: Gray says she's quite injured so she is. Gray wouldn't say he was waiting for her to be like this to attack if it her being heavily injured failed to negatively affect her performance.
For people riding for Gray on this discussion, a lot of you sure do love ti ignore, discredit and change what he himself says.
We don't what type of problems those injuries had on her. It not like Skullion did organ damage to Mira when she had few scratches. You expect me to believe Skulllion somehow did interior damage without touching her some of those bruises are from her previous fight against Erza.
Except it wasn't as they were only scared of her fighting spirit and not her MP.
People in the series had internal injuries despite having only superficial looking damage. Plus Skullion was most likely hitting her throughout the battle.
If an injury is noted then it means it is a serious problem as I have shown. Statements of nerfs are noted bcs they are important.
Except it wasn't as they were only scared of her fighting spirit and not her MP.
People in the series had internal injuries despite having only superficial looking damage. Plus Skullion was most likely hitting her throughout the battle.
If an injury is noted then it means it is a serious problem as I have shown. Statements of nerfs are noted bcs they are important.
Gray used a DeS spell to freeze Skullion so why would it not be considered when they refer to him not being able to freeze Skullion? That makes 0 sense. Also Cana and Gray know that Gray is a DeS and Mira turns into demons. Therefore them just being comparable in power makes no sense since DeS has an advantage over demons. So even if they are comparable in power Gray having an advantage over her would be something that should be mentioned right off the bat. Why would Cana and Gray just gloss over the fact that he's a demon slayer and she's a demon when they are talking about taking her down? That's not even twisting or over analyzing at this point. So yes there is a HINT, not a confirmation that Mirajane is more resistant to him than people here thought. His Ice make silver and Zeroth long sword both are used in his DeS form.
Yeah but he easily lost to Skullion who she tied with in her weakest form so that more than hints that Gray is weaker than both her and Skullion right now. If he was so sure, Cana or no Cana, he would have gone ahead with what he planned. Him agreeing that he couldn't freeze her, agreeing that she could beat Skullion and him lamenting having to deal with her and Skullion one time and then another when he complained about having to deal with Laxus, Mirajane, Jellal and Gajeel, all point to Mirajane being superior to him.
No it's not up to readers to say how weak either is. That is dishonest. Whether you did it on purpose or not, idc. Saying that Mirajane and Gray are presently exhausted and injured to the same extent is blatantly false. Gray has literally said that she is very injured. Gray himself is not very injured and we know that Mirajane fought more and fought more powerful foes than Gray and unlike him she did not rest. This doesn't even make sense. Idk why people are so bent on pretending that Gray is more than he is right now to the point of blatantly altering facts but it's not a good look.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
She is badly injured. PERIOD. Gray is not and Gray admits that he was waiting for her to be quite injured to take her. It's not up for debate. Moving her legs or whatever is your own little headcanon. If one character is badly injured and another is not that injured and they battle that is not a fair fight. So sorry to break it to you all but if Gray who is near fresh beats a very injured Mira who just tied with someone who beat him mid diff, this doesn't prove that Gray = Mira or Gray > Mirajane in terms of power. Heck it doesn't even prove that he would beat her because of his DeS.
Bottom line: Gray says she's quite injured so she is. Gray wouldn't say he was waiting for her to be like this to attack if it her being heavily injured failed to negatively affect her performance.
For people riding for Gray on this discussion, a lot of you sure do love ti ignore, discredit and change what he himself says.
Because Mashima wrote that months earlier? And also because the spell Gray stated he wanted to use in the actual chapter has large AoE unlike Zeroth Longsword? As for not mentioning Gray's DeS advantage, probably because it's not the actual fight yet. If no mention of DeS advantage happens in their actual fight or if it doesn't seem make much difference, I'll agree with you that DeS isnt much of a factor against Mira.
Not really, he'll almost certainly win the next time they fight, just like Erza vs Kyria, at least imo. As for him being "so sure", I don't see why he would be, unless he thought he was far stronger than they are, that's the only way he could be "so sure" of his victory. As someone who rivals their strength listening to Cana when she says don't get into a free for all makes perfect sense.
You've either misunderstood or misread my comment, take the time to read it properly before calling someone dishonest. Nowhere have I stated that Gray and Mirajane are the same level of injured, in fact nowhere have I mentioned Gray being injured at all. I said that if Gray mid diffs Mirajane then he isn't spending all of his power because he doesn't need to, and Mirajane also isn't spending all of her power because she doesn't have access to it due to injuries. If Gray spends only %50 of his power to mid diff Mirajane, and Mirajane only has %50 of her strength left over in that fight due to injuries if she gets beaten, then Gray still beats her uninjured because when using the same amount of power against each other Gray still won. What the readers will have to decide is how injured Mirajane was compared to how hard Gray had to try to beat her.
Because Mashima wrote that months earlier? And also because the spell Gray stated he wanted to use in the actual chapter has large AoE unlike Zeroth Longsword? As for not mentioning Gray's DeS advantage, probably because it's not the actual fight yet. If no mention of DeS advantage happens in their actual fight or if it doesn't seem make much difference, I'll agree with you that DeS isnt much of a factor against Mira.
Not really, he'll almost certainly win the next time they fight, just like Erza vs Kyria, at least imo. As for him being "so sure", I don't see why he would be, unless he thought he was far stronger than they are, that's the only way he could be "so sure" of his victory. As someone who rivals their strength listening to Cana when she says don't get into a free for all makes perfect sense.
You've either misunderstood or misread my comment, take the time to read it properly before calling someone dishonest. Nowhere have I stated that Gray and Mirajane are the same level of injured, in fact nowhere have I mentioned Gray being injured at all. I said that if Gray mid diffs Mirajane then he isn't spending all of his power because he doesn't need to, and Mirajane also isn't spending all of her power because she doesn't have access to it due to injuries. If Gray spends only %50 of his power to mid diff Mirajane, and Mirajane only has %50 of her strength left over in that fight due to injuries if she gets beaten, then Gray still beats her uninjured because when using the same amount of power against each other Gray still won. What the readers will have to decide is how injured Mirajane was compared to how hard Gray had to try to beat her.
Ice Make Silver is used with his DeS power. Ignoring that he used Zeroth long sword to freeze Skullion which is why he realized freezing doesn't work, his AoE moves are and have been used with DeS power in the past. That is why I say this statement is a HINT at it not being as big of an advantage on Mirajane as it was on Tempesta for example. And my point is that if Gray and Cana believes that his freezing would work as well on her as it did Skullion despite it being DeS power that hints at his DeS power not being as effective as people thought. How can it affect a demon as well as it affected a non demon? Unless Skullion is weaker than Mirajane by a sig. margin, she should not be tanking DeS spells as he did in her weakest form. If she is of a high enough level to brush off that move despite being a demon then that is another story and supports what I said earlier, she is strong enough to resist a DeS advantage from current Gray even though she is weak against it generally as has been the case in the past for slayers and the ones they are effective against.
I don't believe that DeS would fail to be effective on Mirajane. I am just saying that it is a possibility based on the hints Mashima is giving through Gray and/or because she is very strong, the effect would not be as pronounced as people here expect. That is, people expecting Gray to low diff her and beat her with 1-2 DeS spells. It could very well be as effective as everyone thinks, Mashima could be trolling with Gray all this time but time will tell. Shutting down the possibility because she turns into demons and he has DeS while ignoring Gray himself hyping her makes no sense. People are stuck in their outdated perceptions for what reason idk.
Mirajane in her weakest form tied with Skullion in her first fight, after defeating Virgo, Leo and tanking one of Lucy's strongest spells. Gray defeating him after says nothing about Gray now. And by feats Madmole and Kyria are weaker than Skullion so you don't even know if he would have overwhelmed them on the ship like Natsu and Erza did the other 2. This is further compounded by the fact that Mashima DID NOT let him get a rematch then and not even now. Likely he'll get a rematch when he can win and since he's not getting it we can't say that he's stronger right now without POF.
Gray went all out vs Skullion and lost. Natsu and Erza did not go all out on their opponents but pushed them back in rematches.
That's flawed logic and not how it works. If Mirajane is injured and low on power she cannot access the higher forms and stronger spells that she could have at 100%. Her being injured also means that she would be easier to take down so Gray would have to use less power and spells to beat her. Gray using 50% of his power to take down someone heavily injured and/or low on power who cannot use their best fails to prove that Gray and Mirajane at 100% would end the same way i.e. with Gray winning.Gray is talking about expecting to fight her when she's quite injured because it allows him to be sure of his victory and the meaning is clear. She's weak enough now for him to take her. Nothing hints that his odds are the same vs a healthy, full powered Mirajane. He even said she would be a pain akin to Laxus, Jellal, Gajeel, compared her to Skullion etc. All of that shows that she is powerful and would be hard to deal with hence him waiting for her to be injured to be sure he can take her. It's simple, really. I don't know where this "if Gray uses 50% but she only has 50% that means that they both used the same amount of power" thing comes from.
Using your own logic. If Gray uses 50% but she only has 50% of her power wouldn't that mean that he would still have power left over while she has none? Also 50% of her power isn't comparable to 50% of his power since she is stronger. So she can have 50% of her power which would equal 60% of his while he has 100% to use but would only need 65% to win. This actually proves my point and supports Gray's statement more. He needs her weakened to beat her. She's badly injured and likely has lost a lot of magic while he is less injured and has most of his so it can never be the same as fresh Mira vs fresh Gray.
Conversely, since we are using % of power to somehow prove things. Let's say that Gray is equal to Mirajane. She has 50% power left but he has 75% of his. He WILL win because he can outlast her and counter her until she is done and he can finish her. He can also potentially put the entire 75% of his power into all of his attacks and crush her since she only has 50% i.e. less power.
But yeah he said she's really injured so common sense and logic tells us that this means she would be easier to beat and easier to trap, hurt and overpower. The magic power thing is implicit since we all know how FT works but that's another factor.
Readers don't have to decide anything, as I've said before. It is a fact that Mirajane is heavily injured. We see her state worse than his and he himself says it. She is quite injured so now is his chance as he expected. Gray is not shown to be heavily injured and if they both were heavily injured we'd be back to square one. Gray said Mirajane is quite/very/significantly injured. It's not up for debate if they are injured to the same extent. We see his state, his confidence, and nothing is stated about him having any injury. That's like saying Lucy is injured to the same extent as Mirajane is because they are both injured and thus the readers can decide to what extent. Lol no. We know Mirajane is more injured since she is drawn this way, panting and Gray says she is quite injured. Common sense.
Ice Make Silver is used with his DeS power. Ignoring that he used Zeroth long sword to freeze Skullion which is why he realized freezing doesn't work, his AoE moves are and have been used with DeS power in the past. That is why I say this statement is a HINT at it not being as big of an advantage on Mirajane as it was on Tempesta for example. And my point is that if Gray and Cana believes that his freezing would work as well on her as it did Skullion despite it being DeS power that hints at his DeS power not being as effective as people thought. How can it affect a demon as well as it affected a non demon? Unless Skullion is weaker than Mirajane by a sig. margin, she should not be tanking DeS spells as he did in her weakest form. If she is of a high enough level to brush off that move despite being a demon then that is another story and supports what I said earlier, she is strong enough to resist a DeS advantage from current Gray even though she is weak against it generally as has been the case in the past for slayers and the ones they are effective against.
I don't believe that DeS would fail to be effective on Mirajane. I am just saying that it is a possibility based on the hints Mashima is giving through Gray and/or because she is very strong, the effect would not be as pronounced as people here expect. That is, people expecting Gray to low diff her and beat her with 1-2 DeS spells. It could very well be as effective as everyone thinks, Mashima could be trolling with Gray all this time but time will tell. Shutting down the possibility because she turns into demons and he has DeS while ignoring Gray himself hyping her makes no sense. People are stuck in their outdated perceptions for what reason idk.
Mirajane in her weakest form tied with Skullion in her first fight, after defeating Virgo, Leo and tanking one of Lucy's strongest spells. Gray defeating him after says nothing about Gray now. And by feats Madmole and Kyria are weaker than Skullion so you don't even know if he would have overwhelmed them on the ship like Natsu and Erza did the other 2. This is further compounded by the fact that Mashima DID NOT let him get a rematch then and not even now. Likely he'll get a rematch when he can win and since he's not getting it we can't say that he's stronger right now without POF.
Gray went all out vs Skullion and lost. Natsu and Erza did not go all out on their opponents but pushed them back in rematches.
That's flawed logic and not how it works. If Mirajane is injured and low on power she cannot access the higher forms and stronger spells that she could have at 100%. Her being injured also means that she would be easier to take down so Gray would have to use less power and spells to beat her. Gray using 50% of his power to take down someone heavily injured and/or low on power who cannot use their best fails to prove that Gray and Mirajane at 100% would end the same way i.e. with Gray winning.Gray is talking about expecting to fight her when she's quite injured because it allows him to be sure of his victory and the meaning is clear. She's weak enough now for him to take her. Nothing hints that his odds are the same vs a healthy, full powered Mirajane. He even said she would be a pain akin to Laxus, Jellal, Gajeel, compared her to Skullion etc. All of that shows that she is powerful and would be hard to deal with hence him waiting for her to be injured to be sure he can take her. It's simple, really. I don't know where this "if Gray uses 50% but she only has 50% that means that they both used the same amount of power" thing comes from.
Using your own logic. If Gray uses 50% but she only has 50% of her power wouldn't that mean that he would still have power left over while she has none? Also 50% of her power isn't comparable to 50% of his power since she is stronger. So she can have 50% of her power which would equal 60% of his while he has 100% to use but would only need 65% to win. This actually proves my point and supports Gray's statement more. He needs her weakened to beat her. She's badly injured and likely has lost a lot of magic while he is less injured and has most of his so it can never be the same as fresh Mira vs fresh Gray.
Conversely, since we are using % of power to somehow prove things. Let's say that Gray is equal to Mirajane. She has 50% power left but he has 75% of his. He WILL win because he can outlast her and counter her until she is done and he can finish her. He can also potentially put the entire 75% of his power into all of his attacks and crush her since she only has 50% i.e. less power.
But yeah he said she's really injured so common sense and logic tells us that this means she would be easier to beat and easier to trap, hurt and overpower. The magic power thing is implicit since we all know how FT works but that's another factor.
Readers don't have to decide anything, as I've said before. It is a fact that Mirajane is heavily injured. We see her state worse than his and he himself says it. She is quite injured so now is his chance as he expected. Gray is not shown to be heavily injured and if they both were heavily injured we'd be back to square one. Gray said Mirajane is quite/very/significantly injured. It's not up for debate if they are injured to the same extent. We see his state, his confidence, and nothing is stated about him having any injury. That's like saying Lucy is injured to the same extent as Mirajane is because they are both injured and thus the readers can decide to what extent. Lol no. We know Mirajane is more injured since she is drawn this way, panting and Gray says she is quite injured. Common sense.
Like I said, I'm fine with saying DeS magic might not affect Mira as much as regular demons, but nothing yet presented is a hint at this. Mashima isn't subtle about these things, he's not going to "hint" at Mira not being affected by DeS magic, he's going to say it outright or ignore it completely. If it's said outright then thats how it is, if it's ignored completely then DeS advantage probably isn't much of a thing as you said.
Gray went as hard against Skullion as Natsu did on Madmole in round 1. Is Kyrai weaker than Skullion by feats? As I recall she beat Erza while Skullion only beat Gray. Though I do think Skullion is the strongest. Why should I care that Mira is in her weakest form? Aren't you the one saying she tried so hard against Skullion and is now oh so injured?
It is how it works. If Gray uses %50 of his power to beat someone who only has %50 of their power, then he wins at %100 too. Mira is probably also going to use her highest form and strongest spells against Gray anyway.
Gray already showed he was willing to take healthy Mirajane, and him saying Mira will be a pain in the ass like Gajeel, Laxus and Jellal doesn't means he's weaker than her, just that she's a pain in the ass. Gray is probably an even match for Gajeel.
Yes, exactly, if Gray has power left over while she has none, then that means he could potentially have won if she had more power going into the fight, because he still has power to spare.
Readers dont "have" to decide anything, sure, but they "can" decide what their opinions on their PLs are based on how the fight turns out. If Gray beats injured Mira without using all his power, then it's possible he could beat uninjured Mira with all his power, common sense.
Like I said, I'm fine with saying DeS magic might not affect Mira as much as regular demons, but nothing yet presented is a hint at this. Mashima isn't subtle about these things, he's not going to "hint" at Mira not being affected by DeS magic, he's going to say it outright or ignore it completely. If it's said outright then thats how it is, if it's ignored completely then DeS advantage probably isn't much of a thing as you said.
Gray went as hard against Skullion as Natsu did on Madmole in round 1. Is Kyrai weaker than Skullion by feats? As I recall she beat Erza while Skullion only beat Gray. Though I do think Skullion is the strongest. Why should I care that Mira is in her weakest form? Aren't you the one saying she tried so hard against Skullion and is now oh so injured?
It is how it works. If Gray uses %50 of his power to beat someone who only has %50 of their power, then he wins at %100 too. Mira is probably also going to use her highest form and strongest spells against Gray anyway.
Gray already showed he was willing to take healthy Mirajane, and him saying Mira will be a pain in the ass like Gajeel, Laxus and Jellal doesn't means he's weaker than her, just that she's a pain in the ass. Gray is probably an even match for Gajeel.
Yes, exactly, if Gray has power left over while she has none, then that means he could potentially have won if she had more power going into the fight, because he still has power to spare.
Readers dont "have" to decide anything, sure, but they "can" decide what their opinions on their PLs are based on how the fight turns out. If Gray beats injured Mira without using all his power, then it's possible he could beat uninjured Mira with all his power, common sense.
Him saying she has no weaknesses, would be a pain to deal with, complaining about him having to fight her, implying that she would tank his Zeroth long sword and DeS magic like Skullion and saying he can take her while she's heavily injured actually are hints that she can possibly resist his powers.
Actually Kyria is weaker than Skullion based on feats. Skullion tied with Mirajane and easily beat DeS Gray. Kyria was being hurt by flame empress armored Erza with little difficulty on Erza's part and drew in sparring with armor-less Erza. She beat Erza with a hax ability which became useless right after. Mest has shown us how hax should be factored into power levels, already (he brain washed brandish).
No I'm not the one claiming it. Gray is. He's the one saying she's quite injured. And yeah you should care that she is in her weakest form since that means her weakest form did better than Gray at his strongest lol! It has nothing to do with her injury so idk what you're trying to say, exactly? She was heavily injured after fighting Skullion not Virgo and Lucy. Though she did use her powers and keep her BSS form since back then. It's like Erza is her heavens wheel drawing with Skullion but people claiming that Gray is not weaker than her after he was in DeS and lost. She's not using her full power and is doing better than Gray using his.
Jellal and Laxus are stronger than he is. Skullion is stronger than he is. Gajeel is on his tier. Gray saying she would be a pain in the ass like Laxus, Jellal, Gajeel and would likely beat Skullion actually does show that he thinks she's stronger than he is. The weakest person there is on his level and he thought she would beat the guy who beat him and we saw her tie with him in her weakest form. At this point it's not up for debate whether or not Mirajane is generally stronger than Gray and Gajeel.
You have no proof that Gray is going to use 50% of his power though. This is a headcanon. Mirajane is confirmed heavily injured and was just fighting someone greater than Gray. It's not up in the air whether she's at the same level of health and power as he is. Gray thinks this is his chance to take her. This means that Gray isn't confident that he can beat her at full power. Furthermore even if she uses her strongest spells and still loses, the fact that she is injured and low on power while he is close to full power means that she is more vulnerable and cannot spam her moves often and keep her forms for as long as she would at full power. It's not that hard. This over-analyzing with bias is unnecessary. We even saw an example in Tenrou when Mirajane was low on power and couldn't keep her form long enough to fight Azuma as she lamented. She thought she could pull off a win if she put all of her magic in it but she was low on power and Lisanna was in danger.
No it isn't. If Gray beats weakened Mirajane without using all of his power (he's close to full) he'd be beating Mirajane without her full power and heavily injured after Mashima gave us Gray admitting that he was waiting for now to strike so common sense would actually dictate on readers' part, that Mirajane > Gray. You don't get called coward for waiting to fight someone who is badly injured if everyone knows and the author wants us to believe that you are stronger than her and can beat her even if she was at full power/health. It goes against common sense and the clear authorial intent of his series which children read.
Him saying she has no weaknesses, would be a pain to deal with, complaining about him having to fight her, implying that she would tank his Zeroth long sword and DeS magic like Skullion and saying he can take her while she's heavily injured actually are hints that she can possibly resist his powers.
Actually Kyria is weaker than Skullion based on feats. Skullion tied with Mirajane and easily beat DeS Gray. Kyria was being hurt by flame empress armored Erza with little difficulty on Erza's part and drew in sparring with armor-less Erza. She beat Erza with a hax ability which became useless right after. Mest has shown us how hax should be factored into power levels, already (he brain washed brandish).
No I'm not the one claiming it. Gray is. He's the one saying she's quite injured. And yeah you should care that she is in her weakest form since that means her weakest form did better than Gray at his strongest lol! It has nothing to do with her injury so idk what you're trying to say, exactly? She was heavily injured after fighting Skullion not Virgo and Lucy. Though she did use her powers and keep her BSS form since back then. It's like Erza is her heavens wheel drawing with Skullion but people claiming that Gray is not weaker than her after he was in DeS and lost. She's not using her full power and is doing better than Gray using his.
Jellal and Laxus are stronger than he is. Skullion is stronger than he is. Gajeel is on his tier. Gray saying she would be a pain in the ass like Laxus, Jellal, Gajeel and would likely beat Skullion actually does show that he thinks she's stronger than he is. The weakest person there is on his level and he thought she would beat the guy who beat him and we saw her tie with him in her weakest form. At this point it's not up for debate whether or not Mirajane is generally stronger than Gray and Gajeel.
You have no proof that Gray is going to use 50% of his power though. This is a headcanon. Mirajane is confirmed heavily injured and was just fighting someone greater than Gray. It's not up in the air whether she's at the same level of health and power as he is. Gray thinks this is his chance to take her. This means that Gray isn't confident that he can beat her at full power. Furthermore even if she uses her strongest spells and still loses, the fact that she is injured and low on power while he is close to full power means that she is more vulnerable and cannot spam her moves often and keep her forms for as long as she would at full power. It's not that hard. This over-analyzing with bias is unnecessary. We even saw an example in Tenrou when Mirajane was low on power and couldn't keep her form long enough to fight Azuma as she lamented. She thought she could pull off a win if she put all of her magic in it but she was low on power and Lisanna was in danger.
No it isn't. If Gray beats weakened Mirajane without using all of his power (he's close to full) he'd be beating Mirajane without her full power and heavily injured after Mashima gave us Gray admitting that he was waiting for now to strike so common sense would actually dictate on readers' part, that Mirajane > Gray. You don't get called coward for waiting to fight someone who is badly injured if everyone knows and the author wants us to believe that you are stronger than her and can beat her even if she was at full power/health. It goes against common sense and the clear authorial intent of his series which children read.
Not really, they're just ignoring DeS completely, if they continue to ignore DeS even in the actual fight, then you're right, if not then you're wrong.
Again, not really. Beating Erza is a better feat than beating Gray or fighting Mira evenly.
Yeah, so you argue Mira spent all this power despite being in her "weakest" form, and yet also argue that Gray barely spent any of his power despite using his "strongest" form on the Raijin? Uhuh.
But Gajeel isn't so it doesn't matter. He also thinks he's beating Skullion round 2 so that also doesnt matter. Gray is perfectly willing to take on a healthy Mira, him being smart about it at the suggestion of his allies don't make him weaker. You saying it's not up for debate also don't make it not up for debate, and you're kinda undercutting that statement by you know, debating it.
I know I have no proof that Gray is only going to use %50 of his power, where have I ever stated that I did? All I'm saying is that I'm not going to arbitrarily consider Gray's win, should he achieve it, an "empty victory", before it even happens in the manga. There are a lot of factors that can happen in a fight, the difficulty through which a character obtains victory being among them.
Again with the bias talk? Do you hear me accusing you of trying to preemptively undercut Gray's victory by making this argument because you're bias for Mirajane and afraid Gray will win? How about you focus on the argument and the manga, rather than the person making the argument? I've been a supporter of Mira for years, and would happily see her actually win the coming fight against Gray and rise up to Laxus and Erza's level, I have simply tempered my expectation with the amount of shine Mashima has previously allowed her to get.
Gray is at perfect health and MP as he barely used magic in the fight with the Rajinshuu and had about almost 10 chapters to rest which is a long rest.
Gray was waiting for Mira to be injured to fight her and prior to that he admitted his ice would be as useful on her as it would Skullion which means Gray did not want to fight her healthy. He then admitted she would be a better fight for Skullion, the guy who oneshotted Gray. It's very cleary that a healthy Mira is above Gray.
He's needs DeS and her being injured to fight her lol.
Okay so heres my thought.
Madmole and Skullion (in the previous chapters) were fought by Wendy, Natsu and Gray, with great difficulty.
And now Mira and Elfman faced them.
As we know Skullion trashed Grays magic.
In the first season Elfman has no match against Freed. But Freed with the Thunder Tribe were also trahed by Gray.
So, Elman<Freed
But, Thunder tribe<Gray
Also, Gray<Skullion
So in this fight we can totally neglect Elfman's appearance here since hes got no balls against Skullion or Madmole. How can such an A-class wizard can match an opponent that even the the MCs had the hard time on facing, also even the MCs cant land a proper hits against them.
So it was just totally (1 vs 2) Mirajane vs Skullion and Madmole.
But the the thing is, the two wag their tail and pull off like a little bitvh even though Mira only used her BSS.
So basically, Mira BSS =< Skullion amd Madmole.
How much more if she used stronger TO against them?
So in this arc, Mira surpassed the feats that Gray has.
Okay so heres my thought.
Madmole and Skullion (in the previous chapters) were fought by Wendy, Natsu and Gray, with great difficulty.
And now Mira and Elfman faced them.
As we know Skullion trashed Grays magic.
In the first season Elfman has no match against Freed. But Freed with the Thunder Tribe were also trahed by Gray.
So, Elman<Freed
But, Thunder tribe<Gray
Also, Gray<Skullion
So in this fight we can totally neglect Elfman's appearance here since hes got no balls against Skullion or Madmole. How can such an A-class wizard can match an opponent that even the the MCs had the hard time on facing, also even the MCs cant land a proper hits against them.
So it was just totally (1 vs 2) Mirajane vs Skullion and Madmole.
But the the thing is, the two wag their tail and pull off like a little bitvh even though Mira only used her BSS.
So basically, Mira BSS =< Skullion amd Madmole.
How much more if she used stronger TO against them?
So in this arc, Mira surpassed the feats that Gray has.
You assume Elfman's relative level to Freed stayed the same, while feats contradict this.
Elfman stalemating Madmole and no selling Lucy's ace spell this arc is Mashima's way of saying that Elfman is keeping up with the main team. And that his win against Ajeel in Alverez arc was no fluke.
Okay so heres my thought.
Madmole and Skullion (in the previous chapters) were fought by Wendy, Natsu and Gray, with great difficulty.
And now Mira and Elfman faced them.
As we know Skullion trashed Grays magic.
In the first season Elfman has no match against Freed. But Freed with the Thunder Tribe were also trahed by Gray.
So, Elman<Freed
But, Thunder tribe<Gray
Also, Gray<Skullion
So in this fight we can totally neglect Elfman's appearance here since hes got no balls against Skullion or Madmole. How can such an A-class wizard can match an opponent that even the the MCs had the hard time on facing, also even the MCs cant land a proper hits against them.
So it was just totally (1 vs 2) Mirajane vs Skullion and Madmole.
But the the thing is, the two wag their tail and pull off like a little bitvh even though Mira only used her BSS.
So basically, Mira BSS =< Skullion amd Madmole.
How much more if she used stronger TO against them?
So in this arc, Mira surpassed the feats that Gray has.
How can you say Elf < Freed bcs of the first seasons, but then say Gray > Freed bcs of current season??? Gray was also weaker than Freed in the first seasons lol.
Let's not sell Elf's contributions short of what they are.
How can you say Elf < Freed bcs of the first seasons, but then say Gray > Freed bcs of current season??? Gray was also weaker than Freed in the first seasons lol.
Let's not sell Elf's contributions short of what they are.
He was tho. Freed was able to dominate a 7kin like Rustyrose before the power drain. Freed also gave Mira some diff which I don't see Gray being able to replicate.
He was tho. Freed was able to dominate a 7kin like Rustyrose before the power drain. Freed also gave Mira some diff which I don't see Gray being able to replicate.
