One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Luffy can take hits like this and continue to fight for hours but a clean strike from a swordsman puts him down?

Luffy has a 900+ chapter history of continuing to fight with critical damage or mortal wounds but somehow a a clean sword strike puts him down.

Some people really don't get it.....

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Luffy can take hits like this and continue to fight for hours but a clean strike from a swordsman puts him down?

Luffy has a 900+ chapter history of continuing to fight with critical damage or mortal wounds but somehow a a clean sword strike puts him down.

Some people really don't get it.....

I would argue a clean sword cut is something you should probably fear more, compared to the damage that Mogura can deal.

Imagine if it's the kind of a cut Mihawk did to Zoro in Baratie arc? That stretches from chest to groin.

Proficient swordsmen can easily cut through massive objects. There's no reason someone like Zoro or Mihawk couldn't cut a person in half.

It's only because they're decent enough that they don't literally cut people in half.

What I'm trying to say is that it is up to the swordsman to decide how deep he wants his cut to be.

Plus Luffy has the properties of rubber on his side that help him keep those wounds shut to at least some degree.

 

[nik87]

I would argue a clean sword cut is something you should probably fear more, compared to the damage that Mogura can deal.

Imagine if it's the kind of a cut Mihawk did to Zoro in Baratie arc? That stretches from chest to groin.

Proficient swordsmen can easily cut through massive objects. There's no reason someone like Zoro or Mihawk couldn't cut a person in half.

It's only because they're decent enough that they don't literally cut people in half.

What I'm trying to say is that it is up to the swordsman to decide how deep he wants his cut to be.

Plus Luffy has the properties of rubber on his side that help him keep those wounds shut to at least some degree.

Swordsmen are nerfed by the Shounen, if this was a seinen we would be seeing bodies taken apart each time...
Spinning Mogura is certainly dangerous but the hit Luffy took was exaggerated in first pannel, in all others its nowhere as bad.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I would argue a clean sword cut is something you should probably fear more, compared to the damage that Mogura can deal.

Imagine if it's the kind of a cut Mihawk did to Zoro in Baratie arc? That stretches from chest to groin.

Proficient swordsmen can easily cut through massive objects. There's no reason someone like Zoro or Mihawk couldn't cut a person in half.

It's only because they're decent enough that they don't literally cut people in half.

What I'm trying to say is that it is up to the swordsman to decide how deep he wants his cut to be.

Plus Luffy has the properties of rubber on his side that help him keep those wounds shut to at least some degree.

You not considering CoA protecting someone enough to where they couldnt be split in half... or if you have, you just didnt mention it.

Luffy has CoA that's far and away better than Zoro's so I doubt he could could cut through Luffy cleanly.

I would give that Zoro could land some absolutely devastating blows, but the problem is that no amount of damage seems to put Luffy down until he defeats his deaired opponent. The closest thing we have to it is him losing energy after exhausting G4 and even you understand Zoro can't compete with Boundman's power. Luffy just keeps coming back until he eventually wins out

And all of this ignores Luffy ability to utilize Future Sight, Internal Damage Haki, Gears and his yet to be introduced Awakening....

 

[hokageji]

or Luffy to be able to take clean hits from Shanks and keep fighting, Oda has to nerf Shanks and his sword hits damage to be neutralized/ignored for Luffy to proceed fighting. A clean hit from a swordsman ends the fight, now imagine how Oda would have to change the rules for Luffy to keep going after such damage...

This

You not considering CoA protecting someone enough to where they couldnt be split in half... or if you have, you just didnt mention it.

Luffy's armament haki is stronger than Zoros. And i am basing this purely on the occurance and usage of it in the series so far alone.
Any argument against this may be valid in the future, but we haven't seen Zoro in action with advanced enough haki to surpass Luffy's at this stage.

I dont think luffy will have time to fight shanks
The world seemed to be in a big chaos post reverie, so luffy might be in a rush after wano.

I think we are all in agreement that Luffy wont fight Shanks. I will just add to that saying, Luffy doesnt want to fight Shanks, but he wants to surpass Shanks. You dont need to fight Shanks to do that, just needs to become the pirate king.

But having said that, all the discussions on this thread are hypothetical, and hence the argument.

 

[nik87]

Luffy's armament haki is stronger than Zoros. And i am basing this purely on the occurance and usage of it in the series so far alone.
Any argument against this may be valid in the future, but we haven't seen Zoro in action with advanced enough haki to surpass Luffy's at this stage.

I dont think it is, at least his Hardening, not sure about the flow either because swordsmen dont have an use for penetration haki.
What do you expect in a hand vs sword clash? A Vergo vs Tashigi scenario? Or his hands being chopped off? Cracker who sits inside his biscuits all day long almost chopped it off halfway with a nameless move and Zoro who splits mountains with casual nameless slashes will do worse?

What else can happen, a blast a la Roger vs WB? When they are not touching? What would be the point of swordmen using swords if they cant touch?
It wouldnt be any different than not using a sword... You didnt see Zoro's flow? With two slashes he reshaped the map of Wano, the land area is getting smaller and smaller due to his flow, he has an abundance of it, proven on Pica's golem...

I stay by my claims that Luffy will never fight any swordsman in the series because Oda cannot do it with the rules he has set without making it a terrible plot armor or nerfing swordsmen to the point of it just being stupid. I dont think it is a coincidence that he never puts Luffy against master swordsmen, not even in post time skip when he has Hardening and seeing his future opponents not being swordsmen either tells me enough.

 

[Rmstorm]

I dont think it is, at least his Hardening, not sure about the flow either because swordsmen dont have an use for penetration haki.
What do you expect in a hand vs sword clash? A Vergo vs Tashigi scenario? Or his hands being chopped off? Cracker who sits inside his biscuits all day long almost chopped it off halfway with a nameless move and Zoro who splits mountains with casual nameless slashes will do worse?

What else can happen, a blast a la Roger vs WB? When they are not touching? What would be the point of swordmen using swords if they cant touch?
It wouldnt be any different than not using a sword... You didnt see Zoro's flow? With two slashes he reshaped the map of Wano, the land area is getting smaller and smaller due to his flow, he has an abundance of it, proven on Pica's golem...

I stay by my claims that Luffy will never fight any swordsman in the series because Oda cannot do it with the rules he has set without making it a terrible plot armor or nerfing swordsmen to the point of it just being stupid. I dont think it is a coincidence that he never puts Luffy against master swordsmen, not even in post time skip when he has Hardening and seeing his future opponents not being swordsmen either tells me enough.

You are going to eat those words.

 

[kcd]

What do you expect in a hand vs sword clash? A Vergo vs Tashigi scenario? Or his hands being chopped off?

Gomu Gomu no gentle fist!

Luffy's hands won't get chopped off because the sword would either be stopped or deflected by Luffy's advanced haki. It won't even have the opportunity of touching Luffy's skin before the two attacks clashes and cause an explosion. Mind you, if the swordsman is not careful, Luffy might even destroy the sword with the highest advanced haki we've ever seen in the series, internal destruction haki.

Wholecake island Luffy might have little problem with skilled swordsmen, but definitely not this current Luffy, or the Luffy post Wano arc.

More so, normal Luffy with his gentle fist can deliver more damage (critical damage with each hit) compared to the gear fourth mode in Dressrosa. And there's no time limit in normal mode, of which I've not even included future sight yet.

Claiming at this point in the story that Luffy can't handle swordsmen is just ridiculous, or a deliberate attempt to over hype swordsmen.

 

[Pirate Queen]

You are going to eat those words.

Luffy has fought multiple swordsmen, the latest being Cracker.

It makes no difference to Luffy

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 24, 2020 ---

Gomu Gomu no gentle fist!

Luffy's hands won't get chopped off because the sword would either be stopped or deflected by Luffy's advanced haki. It won't even have the opportunity of touching Luffy's skin before the two attacks clashes and cause explosion. Mind you, if the swordsman is not careful, Luffy might even destroy the sword with the highest advanced haki we've ever seen in the series, internal destruction haki.

Wholecake island Luffy might have little problem with skilled swordsmen, but definitely not this current Luffy, or the Luffy post Wano arc.

More so, normal Luffy with his gentle fist can deliver more damage (critical damage with each hit) compared to the gear fourth mode in Dressrosa. And there's no time limit in normal mode, of which I've not even included future sight yet.

Claiming at this point in the story that Luffy can't handle swordsmen is just ridiculous, or a deliberate attempt to over hype swordsmen.

This...

 

[hokageji]

stay by my claims that Luffy will never fight any swordsman in the series because Oda cannot do it with the rules he has set without making it a terrible plot armor or nerfing swordsmen to the point of it just being stupid. I dont think it is a coincidence that he never puts Luffy against master swordsmen, not even in post time skip when he has Hardening and seeing his future opponents not being swordsmen either tells me enough.

Sure, maybe you will end up right, but i guess we've seen enough reasoning here that supports the opposite claim and strengthens the argument. So its apt to say "lets agree to disagree" and move on.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I know the importance of Swords within One Piece is glaring and at the forefront or AT LEAST, bladed weapons

Roger
Whitebeard
Shanks
BM
Rayliegh
Mihawk
Oden
Fujitora


But it is not like their aren't key EXCEPTIONS to that. It's not like you MUST have a blade to be the best.

Garp
Sengoku
Akainu
Luffy
Aokiji
Kaido
Blackbeard

All equally has powerful.

On fact

Garp, Akainu, Kaido vs Mihawk, Shanks, Roger

You'd be damn pressed to say the sword users take this.

Sword users don't have a monopoly on strength in One Piece.

 

[hokageji]

But it is not like their aren't key EXCEPTIONS to that. It's not like you MUST have a blade to be the best.

This sums it up perfectly...
THere are other reasons to back this argument too..

WSS < PK
By Mihawk's own words
The strongest marine isnt a swordsmen...

To think that Swordsmen is the ultimate strength and losing to a non-swordsmen is nerfing is completely ridiculous, specially in a series where the source of power is focused on super-natural ways.

 

[nik87]

Gomu Gomu no gentle fist!

Luffy's hands won't get chopped off because the sword would either be stopped or deflected by Luffy's advanced haki. It won't even have the opportunity of touching Luffy's skin before the two attacks clashes and cause an explosion. Mind you, if the swordsman is not careful, Luffy might even destroy the sword with the highest advanced haki we've ever seen in the series, internal destruction haki.

Wholecake island Luffy might have little problem with skilled swordsmen, but definitely not this current Luffy, or the Luffy post Wano arc.

More so, normal Luffy with his gentle fist can deliver more damage (critical damage with each hit) compared to the gear fourth mode in Dressrosa. And there's no time limit in normal mode, of which I've not even included future sight yet.

Claiming at this point in the story that Luffy can't handle swordsmen is just ridiculous, or a deliberate attempt to over hype swordsmen.

So, what you are saying is basically this: Shanks wont land a single clean slice on Luffy.
AN EMPEROR WONT LAND A SINGLE CLEAN HIT. Luffy walking away from a fight with an EMPEROR clean.
Now, how ridiculous does that sound?

 

[hokageji]

So, what you are saying is basically this: Shanks wont land a single clean slice on Luffy.
AN EMPEROR WONT LAND A SINGLE CLEAN HIT. Luffy walking away from a fight with an EMPEROR clean.
Now, how ridiculous does that sound?

Maybe present Luffy... i think all of us mean Luffy long after Wano and closer to the finale...

So let me ask you this, if Luffy's taken down Kaido, fought Big Mama and then face RHPdo you still think Zoro would be Shanks opponent?

 

[nik87]

Maybe present Luffy... i think all of us mean Luffy long after Wano and closer to the finale...
So let me ask you this, if Luffy's taken down Kaido, fought Big Mama and then face RHPdo you still think Zoro would be Shanks opponent?

What are your expectations of EoS Luffy? Trashing Emperors?
I don't think there will be any fight between SHP and RHP but if some fighting does happen it would be really weird for Zoro not to take on Shanks because Luffy vs Shanks makes no sense in any way, imo. He has been his idol all his life, he wont fight Shanks. Also, I am sure he cant beat Kaido 1vs1 otherwise, where do you go from beating the strongest at this point in time?

 

[jaymizzo]

There is more than one swordsman in the RHP but only one captain in each crew.

 

[M3J]

I dont think luffy will have time to fight shanks
The world seemed to be in a big chaos post reverie, so luffy might be in a rush after wano.
Also post wano luffy will already defeat world strongest creature and will take on WG, that already proves EoS luffy>shanks
In fact, depending on how wano final fight goes, post wano luffy will already be stronger than shanks

Why would Luffy be in a rush? He's never in a rush unless he knows someone is in danger or is way too bored.

How does it? THat's an odd logic, especially considering Shanks is a pacifist.

Luffy can take hits like this and continue to fight for hours but a clean strike from a swordsman puts him down?

Luffy has a 900+ chapter history of continuing to fight with critical damage or mortal wounds but somehow a a clean sword strike puts him down.

Some people really don't get it.....

Zoro's taken worse wounds and fought, but for some reason a stab this arc took him out. It's convenient writing that can change whenever the mangaka wants

 

[Pirate Queen]

Zoro's taken worse wounds and fought, but for some reason a stab this arc took him out. It's convenient writing that can change whenever the mangaka wants

I never disputed this. May characters continue to fight after suffering grave wounds and plot does factor in.

This idea that "One Clean Strike" ends the fight instantly is what I do not agree with and it is not an idea based on fact.

"Final attacks" whether they be sword related, fist related, or df related end the fight. Stating this I would agree with more that what has been stated.

This was a "Clean Strike"

That sure as hell didnt end the fight because Zoro got right back up and FINISHED IT.

Many examples and sure as hell enough to say its absolute nonsense.

Fight usually end with a finisher after an accumulation damage over the course of the fight.

I think the only time is if someone is fighting their opponent and the gap is just too large, in which case it's a damn near one shot.

2 opponents of equal caliber with one getting a "Clean Slash" doesnt immediately end the fight

 

[HereNThere]

What are your expectations of EoS Luffy? Trashing Emperors?
I don't think there will be any fight between SHP and RHP but if some fighting does happen it would be really weird for Zoro not to take on Shanks because Luffy vs Shanks makes no sense in any way, imo. He has been his idol all his life, he wont fight Shanks. Also, I am sure he cant beat Kaido 1vs1 otherwise, where do you go from beating the strongest at this point in time?

He won't fight the person that he promised to surpass? The person who told Luffy that he'll only take his Strawhat back after Luffy becomes a better person than him?

Shanks is Luffy's idol, but Luffy isn't going to let those sentimental feelings stand in the way of his goal. Shanks is an obstacle that Luffy must overcome. They both are aware of this.

Plus, Luffy straight up told Law that he wants to take down all 4 Emperors.

 

[M3J]

This idea that "One Clean Strike" ends the fight instantly is what I do not agree with and it is not an idea based on fact.

And I'm disagreeing with this, it can happen. Luffy did get ended with one blow from Kaidou and likely would have had he fought Big Mom. If Shanks is on another level, then he could one-shot Luffy as well.