Discussion One Piece Power level Discussion Thread

nik87

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How do you expect that Luffy defeats BM, even if he recovered energy and ate all the meat he can swallow? Wea are talking about a yonko, one of the strongest characters in OP world. How do you expect him to beat her at this moment when he barely was able to beat Cracker who is, we can assume, the weakest of the 3 commanders?
Alone in 1vs1 he cant do anything. With all allies present he still cant do anything. Only option is if the commanders assist Luffy to prevent their own casualties.
 

Hannibal Psyche

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How do you expect that Luffy defeats BM, even if he recovered energy and ate all the meat he can swallow? Wea are talking about a yonko, one of the strongest characters in OP world. How do you expect him to beat her at this moment when he barely was able to beat Cracker who is, we can assume, the weakest of the 3 commanders?
Alone in 1vs1 he cant do anything. With all allies present he still cant do anything. Only option is if the commanders assist Luffy to prevent their own casualties.
You have no proof that he can't defeat Big Mom.

Big Mom had to use Hardened Armament just to block Luffy's basic Gear 4th punch. You don't block an attack with Hardening if it can't hurt you. It means she respects his power.

All Luffy is, is tired, that's it.

It's not like she tanked a King Kong Gun like it was nothing.

The Yonko are just overrated. The entire point of the Yonko Saga is to defeat the Yonko.



And while you claim that Luffy can't do anything, Fujitora has stated that he can defeat the Yonko. So, your statement is somewhat baseless as it's not backed up by any facts, but an opinion that isn't supported by any information from the Manga.
 

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You do realise the entire reason Gear 4th only lasted for one blow was because Luffy has been up for 36 hours and only had less than 3 hours worth of rest? Go back to what Jinbei said just before the wedding.

So, if Luffy gets rejuvenated which is possible, he can take Big Mom down. Can't speculate about things that aren't possible. Sanji's 99 recipes could very well make an appearance here.

In fact, with the premise that this will be a collaboration, Streusen can make meat out of anything. Give Luffy some meat and he'll get his energy restored.



They're in no position to back stab. They need her down and they'll need her memories altered, otherwise, they'll be punished for it. Big Mom isn't a reasonable person. It benefits them, it's not only favourable to the SHs. This is not a matter of trust, this is a dire situation, this is a necessity.

Even her kids fear her.





Well, aren't they the ones who opted to evacuate the city during her last rampage? Whether they care or not is unimportant. These people are the fuel for WCI to run and function. Without them, how else do they create homies?



Well, the entire idea of a collaboration is to deal with Big Mom. Why would they need their own memories altered when the premise is to do with them consenting to a collab?



Unrealistic. For one, they can't leave without Big Mom's memories being altered. There's a reason Pudding has this power, it's a device Oda intends to use without a doubt. Like I said before, if they leave without her defeat, Fishman Island and their families will immediately be in danger.

Also, provide an example where the SHs have left innocent people to die whether or not they were familiar with the people as friends or simply as stranger. Never happened. They knew no on Zou, yet they saved them. It's more likely the SHs will participate in saving the innocent.



While this was hilarious, a collaboration between the BM Pirates, Germa and the SHs would essentially make this panel essentially true as absurd as it comes across.
>yes this is a dire situation(BUT ONLY FOR RIGHT NOW) but if bm problem gets solved after that this dire situation will end & its then when backstabbing can happen.

> If the crew has its original memories ( & even u just said that y would they like to alter their own memories since they r consenting on a collab ) then after the dire situation ends SINCE THE CONSENT is just situational the crew can tell BM what jinbei did . FI still stays a target.
Only the wedding cake memories r removed for their own convenience.

Yes the problem of threat to FI & families doesn't get solved . (or possibly some other way out. If for eg pudding takes out both wedding cake & Jinbei & all SH memories from BM despite of her being instructed by her crew to take out only the cake ones but instead she takes out all of the related memories coz she just had a change of heart for sanji then that would be cheesy as hell. And even then the crew has their own memories to make BM recall all the story bar the cake )
There is no escape now unless a miracle happens.

I don't know how oda will solve it. It could even be that SH fail to solve it & there are actual deaths of whom they know.
But just coz its a problem doesn't mean it will necessarily be solved for sure.
It could be solved some other way or not at all.

How will oda handle this idk. But what you are suggesting, I don't see it happening coz it is insufficient
for the reasons stated above.

And all of this is on the big if that luffy gets rejenuvated & is powerful enough to bring BM down. Those are pretty big ifs.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
You have no proof that he can't defeat Big Mom.

Big Mom had to use Hardened Armament just to block Luffy's basic Gear 4th punch. You don't block an attack with Hardening if it can't hurt you. It means she respects his power.

All Luffy is, is tired, that's it.

It's not like she tanked a King Kong Gun like it was nothing.

The Yonko are just overrated. The entire point of the Yonko Saga is to defeat the Yonko.



And while you claim that Luffy can't do anything, Fujitora has stated that he can defeat the Yonko. So, your statement is somewhat baseless as it's not backed up by any facts, but an opinion that isn't supported by any information from the Manga.
Proof is quite simple .
Since luffy could barely beat cracker . He obviously has no chance against BM. ( just coz he made BM use haki so what.)
Yes that wasn't king Kong gun but BM didn't use her named moves either.
BM wasn't using awakening .
Luffy could match BM for temporary time at best but that's as far as he gets.
After G4 runs out he is dead.
 

Hannibal Psyche

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Proof is quite simple .
Since luffy could barely beat cracker .
That's not proof at all.

It's like saying that because Luffy failed to beat Perona, he shouldn't have been able to beat Moriah.

Or because Luffy didn't beat Satori alone, he shouldn't have been able to beat Enel.

You have no proof really.

>yes this is a dire situation(BUT ONLY FOR RIGHT NOW) but if bm problem gets solved after that this dire situation will end & its then when backstabbing can happen.

> If the crew has its original memories ( & even u just said that y would they like to alter their own memories since they r consenting on a collab ) then after the dire situation ends SINCE THE CONSENT is just situational the crew can tell BM what jinbei did . FI still stays a target.
Only the wedding cake memories r removed for their own convenience.

Yes the problem of threat to FI & families doesn't get solved . (or possibly some other way out. If for eg pudding takes out both wedding cake & Jinbei & all SH memories from BM despite of her being instructed by her crew to take out only the cake ones but instead she takes out all of the related memories coz she just had a change of heart for sanji then that would be cheesy as hell. And even then the crew has their own memories to make BM recall all the story bar the cake )
There is no escape now unless a miracle happens.

I don't know how oda will solve it. It could even be that SH fail to solve it & there are actual deaths of whom they know.
But just coz its a problem doesn't mean it will necessarily be solved for sure.
It could be solved some other way or not at all.

How will oda handle this idk. But what you are suggesting, I don't see it happening coz it is insufficient
for the reasons stated above.

And all of this is on the big if that luffy gets rejenuvated & is powerful enough to bring BM down. Those are pretty big ifs.
Cheesy or not, Pudding clearly has a thing for Sanji. It's pretty clear she'll do things in favour for the SHs. Pudding is their way out, that's the reality of it once she's incapacitated.

You're also forgetting that if the SHs and BM Pirates work together to take down Big Mom, you're forgetting the fact that she will take out the fact her territory has been destroyed on her kids. You're not considering her attitude at all.

Fact is the arc can't progress unless her memory is altered. SHs can't go to Wano if Fishman Island in imminent danger, it's only half a day's journey away. That problem needs to be solved and that is only possible via defeat.
 

nik87

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@Hannibal Psyche Yes it is a proof and it has nothing to do with Perona or whatever. Yonko is far above the commanders, he was barely able to beat Cracker and like i already said that was mostly thanks to Cracker himself since he contributed to his own downfall. At the current point Smoothie and Katakuri are probably stronger than Luffy since they seem to be a level above Cracker. Not to mention Bim Mom which is above them all, one of the strongest rulers of the seas in new world. It is actually funny how Luffy fans hype him so much like he could do anything against strongest out there.
 

Hannibal Psyche

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@Hannibal Psyche Yes it is a proof and it has nothing to do with Perona or whatever. Yonko is far above the commanders, he was barely able to beat Cracker and like i already said that was mostly thanks to Cracker himself since he contributed to his own downfall. At the current point Smoothie and Katakuri are probably stronger than Luffy since they seem to be a level above Cracker. Not to mention Bim Mom which is above them all, one of the strongest rulers of the seas in new world. It is actually funny how Luffy fans hype him so much like he could do anything against strongest out there.
It's not proof.

Fact is Big Mom used Haki to defend against a basic Gear 4th punch.

Fujitora also said he's strong enough to, so your opinion holds no proof.

You imply Fujitora is a liar, but I'd rather take his assessment of Luffy over your opinion.

And of course you can't answer how Luffy lost to Perona, but defeated Moriah because it contradicts your idea that losing to someone or fighting someone inferior means a superior opponent can't be defeated.
 

Windfall Island

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That's not proof at all.

It's like saying that because Luffy failed to beat Perona, he shouldn't have been able to beat Moriah.

Or because Luffy didn't beat Satori alone, he shouldn't have been able to beat Enel.

You have no proof really.



Cheesy or not, Pudding clearly has a thing for Sanji. It's pretty clear she'll do things in favour for the SHs. Pudding is their way out, that's the reality of it once she's incapacitated.

You're also forgetting that if the SHs and BM Pirates work together to take down Big Mom, you're forgetting the fact that she will take out the fact her territory has been destroyed on her kids. You're not considering her attitude at all.

Fact is the arc can't progress unless her memory is altered. SHs can't go to Wano if Fishman Island in imminent danger, it's only half a day's journey away. That problem needs to be solved and that is only possible via defeat.
Like I said even if pudding has a thing for sanji & does all that still she can't do all that to the rest of the crew . solve that else problem still stays as it is.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
It's not proof.

Fact is Big Mom used Haki to defend against a basic Gear 4th punch.

Fujitora also said he's strong enough to, so your opinion holds no proof.

You imply Fujitora is a liar, but I'd rather take his assessment of Luffy over your opinion.

And of course you can't answer how Luffy lost to Perona, but defeated Moriah because it contradicts your idea that losing to someone or fighting someone inferior means a superior opponent can't be defeated.
BM was also using basic punch . so ?? Does it prove anything ?

Let me get this straight are you saying that luffy is strong enough to beat BM right now ?
 

nik87

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@Hannibal Psyche It is a proof. Fact is the he could NOT do anything to BM and her using armament means nothing, every top fighter in new world uses armament when taking a hit. Fujitora is an admiral and an admiral is weaker than a yonko and Fujitora could have wiped the floor with Luffy. Why would BM not be able to do that even with less effort?
Luffy lost to Perona so Ussop could have a moment to shine. Again, Perona and Moriah have nothing to do with Luffy vs BM. Perona had her DF ability which just makes you depressed, it doesnt beat you physically. Moriah wasnt stronger than Luffy, he relied on strenght of shadows from others and when he fought with his own strenght it wasnt enough to beat Luffy.
 

Hannibal Psyche

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Fujitora is an admiral and an admiral is weaker than a yonko
Where does the Manga say that? You're making up your own information, lol.

Fact is the he could NOT do anything to BM and her using armament means nothing
Wrong, Hardened Armament is only used when an attack is very likely to be effective.



Would be like saying that Vergo used Hardening here because there was no risk of being cut; that's be absurd.

Luffy lost to Perona so Ussop could have a moment to shine. Again, Perona and Moriah have nothing to do with Luffy vs BM.
There's this thing called logic. The idea that losing to a weaker opponent is not proof you can't fight a stronger opponent. It's a matter of circumstance.
 

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You have no proof that he can't defeat Big Mom.

Big Mom had to use Hardened Armament just to block Luffy's basic Gear 4th punch. You don't block an attack with Hardening if it can't hurt you. It means she respects his power.

All Luffy is, is tired, that's it.

It's not like she tanked a King Kong Gun like it was nothing.

The Yonko are just overrated. The entire point of the Yonko Saga is to defeat the Yonko.



And while you claim that Luffy can't do anything, Fujitora has stated that he can defeat the Yonko. So, your statement is somewhat baseless as it's not backed up by any facts, but an opinion that isn't supported by any information from the Manga.
Fuji said " u hv got the strength to back ur words I appreciate ur spirit.. " . what were those words ? " if I don't beat each & everyone of u I won't become pk" .
So Fuji said yes you have the strength .
He never meant you r ALREADY pk level & hence u r right when u r saying that u can beat everyone of us .

Don't take it too literally otherwise it will imply luffy is already pk level in Fuji's words .
 

Hannibal Psyche

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Like I said even if pudding has a thing for sanji & does all that still she can't do all that to the rest of the crew . solve that else problem still stays as it is.
That's irrelevant. Nothing needs to be done to the others, just Big Mom.

BM was also using basic punch . so ?? Does it prove anything ?

Let me get this straight are you saying that luffy is strong enough to beat BM right now ?
Can you read this?



You don't make up your own beliefs, you source them and the Manga, Fujitora states he can defeat them.

Also, your logic is pretty non-existent here. It's like saying that because Rob Lucci tanked and defended against Gear 2nd attacks, he shouldn't have been able to get knocked out by it.

Big Mom defended because it's capable of hurting her. Of course, not in 1 hit.

Your point is moot. She respects the power of Gear 4th.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Fuji said " u hv got the strength to back ur words I appreciate ur spirit.. " . what were those words ? " if I don't beat each & everyone of u I won't become pk" .
Wrong.

Luffy said he has to beat them, and Fujitora said he has the power to back that up.

The part where he says spirit, you took out of context. If you read it carefully, he's referring to why Luffy is calling out his attacks.
 

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Where does the Manga say that? You're making up your own information, lol.



Wrong, Hardened Armament is only used when an attack is very likely to be effective.



Would be like saying that Vergo used Hardening here because there was no risk of being cut; that's be absurd.



There's this thing called logic. The idea that losing to a weaker opponent is not proof you can't fight a stronger opponent. It's a matter of circumstance.
Feat wise wb is above all the admirals.
Kaido has it that if it is one on one he will win.
Plus kaido doesn't get a scratch from the force that he experiences on being hit by ground having jumped from 10,000 m
So basically to cause him even a bit of a scratch kaido needs to be hit harder than that.
These 2 r definitely above even akainu.
You want more ?
Kuzan is an underling of BB ( unless stated otherwise that he is a spy of WG or ra ) as said by gorosei himself
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
That's irrelevant. Nothing needs to be done to the others, just Big Mom.



Can you read this?



You don't make up your own beliefs, you source them and the Manga, Fujitora states he can defeat them.

Also, your logic is pretty non-existent here. It's like saying that because Rob Lucci tanked and defended against Gear 2nd attacks, he shouldn't have been able to get knocked out by it.

Big Mom defended because it's capable of hurting her. Of course, not in 1 hit.

Your point is moot. She respects the power of Gear 4th.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---


Wrong.

Luffy said he has to beat them, and Fujitora said he has the power to back that up.

The part where he says spirit, you took out of context. If you read it carefully, he's referring to why Luffy is calling out his attacks.
Fuji mentions spirit thing in the very next line.

Fuji experienced a g3 punch so based on that is he implying that g3 luffy has the strength to beat them ?
Coz thats what Fuji had for assessment.
But we knw that g3 isn't gonna do anything.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
Crew of BM aren't gonna spare luffy & co so their memories also need to be altered and pudding can't do that.
 

nik87

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@Hannibal Psyche Are you saying Luffy is strong enough to take out the strongest people in OP world? Get in line and come and get some King Kong Punch?
If you are, then your logic is weird.
 

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Feat wise wb is above all the admirals.
Kaido has it that if it is one on one he will win.
Plus kaido doesn't get a scratch from the force that he experiences on being hit by ground having jumped from 10,000 m
So basically to cause him even a bit of a scratch kaido needs to be hit harder than that.
These 2 r definitely above even akainu.
You want more ?
Kuzan is an underling of BB ( unless stated otherwise that he is a spy of WG or ra ) as said by gorosei himself
More what?



You tried to say Fujitora was talking about his spirit when he was in fact only talking about Luffy calling out his attacks. So indeed, Fujitora has assessed Luffy as strong enough, that's a fact.

Feats don't prove who is stronger than who. Jozu picking up a rock doesn't tell you if he's stronger than Marco. Only fights between characters can tell you that.

Again, so what if Kaido fell and didn't get a scratch? It doesn't tell you he's superior or inferior to the Admirals. All it tells you is, he's got a powerful body.

Kuzan being an underling isn't proof either. It just means he decided to join the BB crew for whatever reason.

Finally, Whitebeard was in a complete league of his own. Both Admirals and other Emperors were inferior to him. No one could defeat him. So, you can't use Whitebeard as a comparison for other Emperors, he was a cut above the rest.
Ony reason Kaido went after Whitebeard was because he wanted to team up with the Admirals to take on Whitebeard. Whitebeard was simply too powerful. hat's why Crocodile stated his going to Marineford was a once in a life time opportunity to finally defeat Whitebard.

You're not providing any fact, you're only stating opinions that are not supported by facts.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
@Hannibal Psyche Are you saying Luffy is strong enough to take out the strongest people in OP world? Get in line and come and get some King Kong Punch?
If you are, then your logic is weird.
Well, if you're capable of reading, the Manga does say he is capable.

If your logic is that reading what the Manga says is weird, then you have a funny definition of weird.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
Fuji mentions spirit thing in the very next line.

Fuji experienced a g3 punch so based on that is he implying that g3 luffy has the strength to beat them ?
Coz thats what Fuji had for assessment.
But we knw that g3 isn't gonna do anything.
Actually, you're wrong.

Fujitora saw Luffy fighting with Gear 4th.

He's basing his assessment on everything he witnessed, not just Gear 3rd.

Luffy said he'll beat up the Admirals and Emperors, and Fujitora said he is strong enough to back those words up. That's the fact of the matter.

It'd be denial to say otherwise. I'm not the one who makes up information, just reading what the manga states.

The spirit part of Fujitora's comment has nothing to do with strength, but with Luffy calling out his attacks.
 

nik87

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@Hannibal Psyche If you think hes already stronger than Yonkos then we can say he is strongest in the world. OP is nowhere near ending and if he is already the strongest there is no reason to get even stronger. There are no stronger opponents to fight.
Do you understand that? He cant possibly be the strongest at this moment. It would make the presence and the threat which a yonko represents pointless. He would simply go from one emperor to other one and keep beating them up and there it is, conquered the sea, became pirate king, happy ending...
What manga states is true only for so long untill a chapter comes to prove it otherwise. Dont take it so literally because what manga states gets changed pretty fast.
 

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More what?



You tried to say Fujitora was talking about his spirit when he was in fact only talking about Luffy calling out his attacks. So indeed, Fujitora has assessed Luffy as strong enough, that's a fact.

Feats don't prove who is stronger than who. Jozu picking up a rock doesn't tell you if he's stronger than Marco. Only fights between characters can tell you that.

Again, so what if Kaido fell and didn't get a scratch? It doesn't tell you he's superior or inferior to the Admirals. All it tells you is, he's got a powerful body.

Kuzan being an underling isn't proof either. It just means he decided to join the BB crew for whatever reason.

Finally, Whitebeard was in a complete league of his own. Both Admirals and other Emperors were inferior to him. No one could defeat him. So, you can't use Whitebeard as a comparison for other Emperors, he was a cut above the rest.
Ony reason Kaido went after Whitebeard was because he wanted to team up with the Admirals to take on Whitebeard. Whitebeard was simply too powerful. hat's why Crocodile stated his going to Marineford was a once in a life time opportunity to finally defeat Whitebard.

You're not providing any fact, you're only stating opinions that are not supported by facts.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---


Well, if you're capable of reading, the Manga does say he is capable.

If your logic is that reading what the Manga says is weird, then you have a funny definition of weird.
--- Double Post Merged, ---


Actually, you're wrong.

Fujitora saw Luffy fighting with Gear 4th.

He's basing his assessment on everything he witnessed, not just Gear 3rd.

Luffy said he'll beat up the Admirals and Emperors, and Fujitora said he is strong enough to back those words up. That's the fact of the matter.

It'd be denial to say otherwise. I'm not the one who makes up information, just reading what the manga states.

The spirit part of Fujitora's comment has nothing to do with strength, but with Luffy calling out his attacks.
So what's your response to what I said that others of bm's crew their memories also need to be altered else bar the wedding cake they can make bm recall everything & nothing changes & obviously pudding can't alter everyone's memories.

Secondly aren't you forming an opinion yourself with no proof when you are saying that kaido wanted to team up with admirals.
 

Hannibal Psyche

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@Hannibal Psyche If you think hes already stronger than Yonkos then we can say he is strongest in the world. OP is nowhere near ending and if he is already the strongest there is no reason to get even stronger. There are no stronger opponents to fight.
Do you understand that? He cant possibly be the strongest at this moment. It would make the presence and the threat which a yonko represents pointless. He would simply go from one emperor to other one and keep beating them up and there it is, conquered the sea, became pirate king, happy ending...
What manga states is true only for so long untill a chapter comes to prove it otherwise. Dont take it so literally because what manga states gets changed pretty fast.
Where did I say he's the strongest?

And he will. Oda already said he will beat Kaido.

You don't have to be the strongest, just strong enough.

And why shouldn't I take what the manga says literally? because it contradicts what you believe? Sounds like a convenient excuse.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
So what's your response to what I said that others of bm's crew their memories also need to be altered else bar the wedding cake they can make bm recall everything & nothing changes & obviously pudding can't alter everyone's memories.

Secondly aren't you forming an opinion yourself with no proof when you are saying that kaido wanted to team up with admirals.
Again, the BM Pirate's crews memories being altered is irrelevant. Only Big Mom's needs to be.

And forming an opinion? Did you read what Crocodile said? He said Whitebeard going to Marineford was the only opportunity to take him down. You think Kaido just coincidentally went after Whitebeard when he was going to Marineford? Some things do not need to be explicitly stated, just requires reading between the lines. It's not an opinion, it's more or less a fact.
 

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Where did I say he's the strongest?

And he will. Oda already said he will beat Kaido.

You don't have to be the strongest, just strong enough.

And why shouldn't I take what the manga says literally? because it contradicts what you believe? Sounds like a convenient excuse.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---


Again, the BM Pirate's crews memories being altered is irrelevant. Only Big Mom's needs to be.

And forming an opinion? Did you read what Crocodile said? He said Whitebeard going to Marineford was the only opportunity to take him down. You think Kaido just coincidentally went after Whitebeard when he was going to Marineford? Some things do not need to be explicitly stated, just requires reading between the lines. It's not an opinion, it's more or less a fact.
What's stopping BM crew katakuri etc From telling BM of everything. ?

Crocodile says that would be HIS best chance.
For crocodile MF was the chance but you can't extend that to kaido.

Also if luffy can already beat BM then he is up there with kaido ,shanks which is just not the case.

We are only having first encounter with a yonko & u r saying that he can beat them already.

I have nothing to say on this particular point other than let the manga go on & we will c.

So basically do you predict that luffy will take down bm this arc ?? I m ready to bet he won't.
 

Hannibal Psyche

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What's stopping BM crew katakuri etc From telling BM of everything. ?

Crocodile says that would be HIS best chance.
For crocodile MF was the chance but you can't extend that to kaido.

Also if luffy can already beat BM then he is up there with kaido ,shanks which is just not the case.

We are only having first encounter with a yonko & u r saying that he can beat them already.

I have nothing to say on this particular point other than let the manga go on & we will c.

So basically do you predict that luffy will take down bm this arc ?? I m ready to bet he won't.
Wrong, Crocodile said it would be his best chance, but it's also the case of everyone else. You clearly missed the part where Crocodile said no one could defeat Whitebeard. So, it's not just his best chance, but everyone's, thus, why Kaido decided to go after Whitebeard. Why would it just be Crocodile's best chance? Makes no sense, if I asked you, you couldn't give an logical answer.

You say he can't beat Big Mom or the Yonko without evidence.

I'm not saying he can, the Manga says so; it's denial to read what the Manga says and disagree just because you don't like it.



Read it for yourself.
 

roggie

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Sorry guys, but Luffy is clearly not stronger than BM and no scenario will support otherwise.
Even if BM was to be stopped right now it wouldn't be possible for the SH to defeat her crew.
So, if her crew is not against them, they are on their side.
If Luffy gets help, we have 2 possibilities:
1. An easy fight, which proves Luffy is superior to BM, but is utterly lame.
2. A hard fight, which is exciting, but proves that Luffy needs (a lot of) help to defeat her.
On a second thought, either possibilities seems boring, so I'm raising my bet on the escape!
 

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