Fantasy Kyria vs Jacob

[WoWfan]

Spoiler

"The enemy boss characters are also the 12 strongest characters in the history of the series".

Fyron's right on this one. Tbh anyone with a passing grade in English can tell you that Fyron is reading it right.

I guess the Spriggans are stronger than Zeref and Acnologia too.

You like to be picky don’t you? He added toughest enemies, which rules out Igneel, and those who are not considered enemies, even Zeref is still considered stronger in the afterward

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 8, 2020, Original Post Date: Feb 8, 2020 ---

He's talking of 'muh strongest villains of the series'

Taking statements and hype seriously in FT

When they are from the word of god, I take that over any fan theories

 

[Verter]

He's talking of 'muh strongest villains of the series'

Taking statements and hype seriously in FT

Do you think it's similar with hype on 1st page of sequel - "about how Natsu gang stronger then before" -> when in reality at least for now their key members like Natsu is nerfed ?

 

[grey matter]

When they are from the word of god, I take that over any fan theories

I guess you'd believe it if Mashima said Romeo > Natsu too, right?

Mashima obviously didn't think too much into it when he made that statement. It's obvious hype tool.

Well, nobody can help you if you think fodder 12 are above freaking DRAGONS

 

[Verter]

Exactly , I never said Irene did not create DS magic , she definitely did.

I was saying someone else may have created it too on another continent simultaneously.

Stop accusing me of saying things I didn't say.

Really ?

I believed someone with nick @Fyron said DS magic is necromancy. And DS bring dead dragons to fight on their selves.

I just to remember (with base on manga) Irene was DS with alive Belserion at same time.

 

[WoWfan]

I guess you'd believe it if Mashima said Romeo > Natsu too, right?

Mashima obviously didn't think too much into it when he made that statement. It's obvious hype tool.

Well, nobody can help you if you think fodder 12 are above freaking DRAGONS

he only talks about plot Twists or planning of how things, his characters status is more of an established thing for him, like how he ensures that only a character will die when it is confirmed and without a shadow of doubt.

Hiro does not care for your opinions, I am going with the higher power, Spriggans are Stronger than most dragons, and considering one of them is a dragon, that supports it

 

[Axiomus]

You like to be picky don’t you? He added toughest enemies, which rules out Igneel, and those who are not considered enemies, even Zeref is still considered stronger in the afterward

Nothing to do with being picky. The text is saying the Spriggan 12 are the strongest characters in history of the series...not just the strongest enemies. Again, basic English.

 

[Fyron]

Really ?

I believed someone with nick @Fyron said DS magic is necromancy. And DS bring dead dragons to fight on their selves.

I just to remember (with base on manga) Irene was DS with alive Belserion at same time.

Did you read my posts properly before posting such bullshit lol ?

I said Irene invented it on Ishgar , and someone probably simultaneously invented it on Alakitasia.

Irene's DS magic was enchanting dragons' powers into humans , Alakitasia's DS magic was somewhat different , it was reviving dragons through necromancy and using their powers to fight enemy dragons.

I said two different types of DS magic were invented simultaneously around the same period of time , probably Alakitasia invented it somewhat earlier.

Anyone who saw the conversation can tell you're making up rubbish.

 

[WoWfan]

Nothing to do with being picky. The text is saying the Spriggan 12 are the strongest characters in history of the series...not just the strongest enemies. Again, basic English.

They are the boss characters, that means they are not as strong as Zeref which Hiro makes it clear, Again, basic English

 

[Verter]

Anyone who saw the conversation can tell you're making up rubbish.

Ok, ok. Talk about what doesnt exit in manga... Well it's your style, as it seems.

So, maybe we should make topics here like it:

"Kyria vs Haschwald, who wins ?"

 

[WoWfan]

Ok, ok. Talk about what doesnt exit in manga... Well it's your style, as it seems.

So, maybe we should make topics here like it:

"Kyria vs Haschwald, who wins ?"

Maybe we should do a crossover section for FT characters and people from other verses

 

[Axiomus]

Do you think it's similar with hype on 1st page of sequel - "about how Natsu gang stronger then before" -> when in reality at least for now their key members like Natsu is nerfed ?

You mean like how Lucy has star dress mix?
You mean like how Erza has her new dragon slaying sword?
You mean like how Laxus has a mode for red lightning?
You mean like how Natsu has a new FDK spell?

Nobody has been nerfed, much less Natsu.

They are the boss characters, that means they are not as strong as Zeref which Hiro makes it clear, Again, basic English

Nope. "The enemy boss characters are the 12 strongest characters in the history of the series" clearly means that the enemy boss characters, which are the Spriggans, are the 12 strongest characters. It doesn't say "The Spriggan 12 are the strongest enemies in the history of the series".

Besides, Zeref is an enemy. So is Acnologia. It's just a hype statement.

 

[Fyron]

Ok, ok. Talk about what doesnt exit in manga... Well it's your style, as it seems.

So, maybe we should make topics here like it:

"Kyria vs Haschwald, who wins ?"

Not sure what has this shit even got to do with this topic ( nice attempt at a strawman ) , but if you don't want to accept that you were wrong and that Acno's story was indeed canon , fine , don't do it and I couldn't care less.

But don't go on putting your words in someone else's mouth , accusing them of saying something they didn't say. It makes people cringe.

 

[grey matter]

Do you think it's similar with hype on 1st page of sequel - "about how Natsu gang stronger then before" -> when in reality at least for now their key members like Natsu is nerfed ?

Agree.

I actually am on the fence regarding team Natsu currently.....especially Natsu and Gray.

Regarding Natsu/Gray in current arc and Alverez arc:
@Axiomus @Ebony Maw @WoWfan

I find merit in both arguments.

Logically, by scaling, Natsu and Gray should be stronger than they were in Alverez.

But I have reasons to believe there has been some retconns regarding this as well.

The portrayal in Alverez arc was that Natsu had convincingly flown past the rest of the guild mates, bar maybe Gildarts (which would be defeated by DF Natsu anyway). And he has feats supporting them as well.
Base Natsu was kinda holding his own against Zeref
DF Natsu went on par with Zeref (actually he was overwhelming Zeref), without any bullshit 'guild - friendship' powerup (that came only for God Zeref).
Natsu was clearly ahead of even Laxus tiers, comfortably, back then.

Darkness Gray was fighting on par with a more powerful version of END, than that which no diff'd Dimaria. And, both END and darkness Gray were progressively getting stronger in their fight as well.
Just stopping punches from END and darkness Gray almost shattered Erza's arms.

I don't think it's controversial to say that Natsu and darkness Gray were commonly regarded as at least a tier above characters like Erza (edited). You could check any 'strongest characters list' that came out during the final arc of FT - almost everyone considered DF Natsu in August tier, and darkness Gray was considered on or above Laxus tier

But it seems that, currently, the relative power levels have kinda been reset. Gray is convincingly below Erza and Laxus. In my honest opinion, he's relatively fodder right now. It seems that Gray no longer possess the 'darkness/demon' powers anymore.
Natsu still kinda is stronger than Erza. I doubt he's stronger than Laxus in FDKM, while in Alverez it was a given that Natsu was stronger in FDKM (at least IMO). Natsu currently struggled against Gajeel. The portrayal that Natsu had in Alverez, no longer exists in Hundred Year Quest arc.

 

[WoWfan]

You mean like how Lucy has star dress mix?
You mean like how Erza has her new dragon slaying sword?
You mean like how Laxus has a mode for red lightning?
You mean like how Natsu has a new FDK spell?

Nobody has been nerfed, much less Natsu.



Nope. "The enemy boss characters are the 12 strongest characters in the history of the series" clearly means that the enemy boss characters, which are the Spriggans, are the 12 strongest characters. It doesn't say "The Spriggan 12 are the strongest enemies in the history of the series".

Besides, Zeref is an enemy. So is Acnologia. It's just a hype statement.

It does say that, in the beginning, they including Zeref, etc. are stated to be the toughest enemies ever seen, the Spriggan are just the bosses before Zeref so they are still included. It is not hype if Hiro states it, what you seem to forget And very selective

 

[Axiomus]

Agree.

I actually am on the fence regarding team Natsu currently.....especially Natsu and Gray.

Regarding Natsu/Gray in current arc and Alverez arc:
@Axiomus @Ebony Maw @WoWfan

I find merit in both arguments.

Logically, by scaling, Natsu and Gray should be stronger than they were in Alverez.

But I have reasons to believe there has been some retconns regarding this as well.

The portrayal in Alverez arc was that Natsu had convincingly flown past the rest of the guild mates, bar maybe Gildarts (which would be defeated by DF Natsu anyway). And he has feats supporting them as well.
Base Natsu was kinda holding his own against Zeref
DF Natsu went on par with Zeref (actually he was overwhelming Zeref), without any bullshit 'guild - friendship' powerup (that came only for God Zeref).
Natsu was clearly ahead of even Laxus tiers, comfortably, back then.

Darkness Gray was fighting on par with a more powerful version of END, than that which no diff'd Dimaria. And, both END and darkness Gray were progressively getting stronger in their fight as well.
Just stopping punches from END and darkness Gray almost shattered Erza's arms.

I don't think it's controversial to say that Natsu and darkness Gray were commonly regarded as at least a tier above characters like Gray. You could check any 'strongest characters list' that came out during the final arc of FT - almost everyone considered DF Natsu in August tier, and darkness Gray was considered on or above Laxus tier

But it seems that, currently, the relative power levels have kinda been reset. Gray is convincingly below Erza and Laxus. In my honest opinion, he's relatively fodder right now. It seems that Gray no longer possess the 'darkness/demon' powers anymore.
Natsu still kinda is stronger than Erza. I doubt he's stronger than Laxus in FDKM, while in Alverez it was a given that Natsu was stronger in FDKM (at least IMO). Natsu currently struggled against Gajeel. The portrayal that Natsu had in Alverez, no longer exists in Hundred Year Quest arc.

The thing is....I've always considered Laxus stronger than Natsu in FDK mode. At least, once I seriously considered the fact that Natsu can't kill Spriggans with FDK, whereas Laxus could with his nuke or red lightning. I guess I still have DF Natsu in August tier, but that hasn't really changed in the 100YQ.

I've also always considered Gray with his "darkness" as below Erza, which I considered below Laxus until very recently. Erza didn't really receive any serious injuries from Natsu or Gray's attacks, as she immediately fought Irene afterwards.

So where you had Gray and Natsu now....is where I've always had them. What this boils down to is that some characters were being wanked too much back then, and some characters were not given their due credit.

 

[grey matter]

he only talks about plot Twists or planning of how things, his characters status is more of an established thing for him, like how he ensures that only a character will die when it is confirmed and without a shadow of doubt.

Hiro does not care for your opinions, I am going with the higher power, Spriggans are Stronger than most dragons, and considering one of them is a dragon, that supports it

GMG Laxus tier Dragon Slaying attacks did near zero damage to GMG dragons.

Eileen's dragon form was one shot by Erza with broken bones having DS magic
Makarov (who is GMG Laxus tier) sent Jacob flying
Brandish was blitzed by freaking Lucy.
Neinhart was 2 shot by base Natsu
Dimaria's strongest shown blast was blocked by base Wendy

I could go on, about how the fodder 12 were trash. The only ones worth a damn among fodder 12 were August, Dragon Eileen, Serena, Larcade and maybe Wahl/Ajeel. The rest were fodder in stats, with high magic power and hax.
None of them; except Serena, Eileen and August (who have Dragon Slaying magic), are doing shit to Dragons by feats.

 

[WoWfan]

again, no proof Laxus nuke can kill Spriggan if he can’t beat one.

GMG Laxus tier Dragon Slaying attacks did near zero damage to GMG dragons.

Eileen's dragon form was one shot by Erza with broken bones having DS magic
Makarov (who is GMG Laxus tier) sent Jacob flying
Brandish was blitzed by freaking Lucy.
Neinhart was 2 shot by base Natsu
Dimaria's strongest shown blast was blocked by base Wendy

I could go on, about how the fodder 12 were trash. The only ones worth a damn among fodder 12 were August, Dragon Eileen, Serena, Larcade and maybe Wahl/Ajeel. The rest were fodder in stats, with high magic power and hax.
None of them; except Serena, Eileen and August (who have Dragon Slaying magic), are doing shit to Dragons by feats.

Laxus got stronger, he is likely stronger than those dragons, but was still stalemated by a Spriggan. Ajeel trashed Erza, Makarov did no damage to Jacob, Brandish was putting on an act to fool her comrades, Neinhart was physically weak, Her defense was broken and Chelia was stronger than before so she could take it. Erza and Jellal in turn send Acnologia flying, do you see the flaw in your logic there? Hiro’s word is clear, most Dragons are not the strongest.

 

[Fyron]

Agree.

I actually am on the fence regarding team Natsu currently.....especially Natsu and Gray.

Regarding Natsu/Gray in current arc and Alverez arc:
@Axiomus @Ebony Maw @WoWfan

I find merit in both arguments.

Logically, by scaling, Natsu and Gray should be stronger than they were in Alverez.

But I have reasons to believe there has been some retconns regarding this as well.

The portrayal in Alverez arc was that Natsu had convincingly flown past the rest of the guild mates, bar maybe Gildarts (which would be defeated by DF Natsu anyway). And he has feats supporting them as well.
Base Natsu was kinda holding his own against Zeref
DF Natsu went on par with Zeref (actually he was overwhelming Zeref), without any bullshit 'guild - friendship' powerup (that came only for God Zeref).
Natsu was clearly ahead of even Laxus tiers, comfortably, back then.

Darkness Gray was fighting on par with a more powerful version of END, than that which no diff'd Dimaria. And, both END and darkness Gray were progressively getting stronger in their fight as well.
Just stopping punches from END and darkness Gray almost shattered Erza's arms.

I don't think it's controversial to say that Natsu and darkness Gray were commonly regarded as at least a tier above characters like Gray. You could check any 'strongest characters list' that came out during the final arc of FT - almost everyone considered DF Natsu in August tier, and darkness Gray was considered on or above Laxus tier

But it seems that, currently, the relative power levels have kinda been reset. Gray is convincingly below Erza and Laxus. In my honest opinion, he's relatively fodder right now. It seems that Gray no longer possess the 'darkness/demon' powers anymore.
Natsu still kinda is stronger than Erza. I doubt he's stronger than Laxus in FDKM, while in Alverez it was a given that Natsu was stronger in FDKM (at least IMO). Natsu currently struggled against Gajeel. The portrayal that Natsu had in Alverez, no longer exists in Hundred Year Quest arc.

Not really I'd say. It's just that Mashima fucked up with how he wanted the fights to play out.

He had decided on several fights taking place , but he really had no idea about how to execute those fights. Gray vs END. Erza vs Irene. Natsu vs Zeref.

So he decides to come up with some stupid powerups like Darkness and the Guild Mark.

Their base forms were never that strong if you look closely.

Base Gray got stomped by Invel. Base Natsu got oneshotted by Zeref the moment he decided it was time to stop playing around , it was DF which saved him. As for DF , it has always been portrayed as top tier since the beginning of the series , not really surprising. BoS Natsu <<<< BoS Erza << BoS Jellal << BoS DF Natsu. You see how much of a boost DF provides.

And even then his FDK Demolition Fist in DF even with PoF could not incinerate all of Zeref's magic , it failed , he was still able to rewind time. It was the power from the guild mark which helped him defeat Zeref.

I consider current DF Natsu > anyone in Alvarez though.

 

[Verter]

I could go on, about how the fodder 12 were trash. The only ones worth a damn among fodder 12 were August, Dragon Eileen, Serena, Larcade and maybe Wahl/Ajeel. The rest were fodder in stats, with high magic power and hax.
None of them; except Serena, Eileen and August (who have Dragon Slaying magic), are doing shit to Dragons by feats.

Ppl mostly underestimate Larcade here, because he lost to White-Shadow mode Sting (ppl still believe Sting is trash, and it's not like it in real) and "speciality" of his magic.

I think Larcade could be more effective vs dragons then August.

I agree that S12 ppl have their own weakness, but some of them were down actually with unfair plot issues. With other hand - current DE still stay only with plot issues on their side.

 

[grey matter]

Laxus got stronger, he is likely stronger than those dragons, but was still stalemated by a Spriggan.

Stalemated? He one shotted a Spriggan as soon as he bypassed the immunity.

Ajeel trashed Erza, Makarov did no damage to Jacob, Brandish was putting on an act to fool her comrades, Neinhart was physically weak, Her defense was broken and Chelia was stronger than before so she could take it.

Fair enough about Ajeel, but he had city level immunity.
Injured Erza overwhelmed human Eileen.
Brandish was holding back in the sense that she didn't instantly enlarge and explode Lucy's organs. She was still blitzed by Lucy.
Neinhart still got 2 shot by base Natsu. Nothing can change that. Being high in magic power means jack when you are that weak.
Dimaria's strongest shown attack was still almost negated by base Wendy.

Erza and Jellal in turn send Acnologia flying, do you see the flaw in your logic there?

Are you serious? Acno one shot a Gildarts level character, while AUGUST HIMSELF couldn't react (meaning, the one who was one shot could've been August himself). Serious Acno one shots anyone in the series bar high tier Dragons. Acno can one shot any character in Alverez arc.
Obviously Acno was not serious against Jellal, becuase he was not a Dragon Slayer.
Erza attacked a mindless and defenseless Acnologia, very impressive lol

Hiro’s word is clear, most Dragons are not the strongest.

Yeah sure man, an out of manga statement, surely overrides all the FEATS written by Mashima himself