It's a huge stretch that most of bam's friends would ever reach FH level at all regardless of time. They simply don't have the privileges for it. As I've said before, I wouldn't even be surprised if gustang is able to beat kallavan in a fist fight.... without even using shinwonryu. And gustang isn't even an offensive wave controller let alone an offensive anything else. I will make the point that bam's friends reaching ranker level well before floor 134 is pretty much a given. Specially for the ones that were at the hidden floor. They were given a shortcut to their shinsoo qualities, their talent.... While by all appearances normal people within the tower have to pretty much just guess what their qualities are. In my head that looks like a person throwing a dark at a huge ass board and just spend 2 or 3 days trying to make it and then repeat until they get it right. I assume nobles have an easier time with this due to their heritage being a strong indicator of where to go. In any case, the gang having this will allow them to grow much faster.
I've long been vocal that IMO I can't see SIU breaking up the core 3 (obviously Baam, Rak, AA). So as Baam grows at an accelerated rate, going parabolic eventually if not already, even his fast-growing regulars can increasingly not keep up. Even the other regulars I don't see him discarding.
So, what to do? Has SIU painted himself into a corner with all the regulars? It seems all battles going forward are HR and up to elite HR and eventually FH/teen ranks.
Well, the other 2 of the core 3 have some buffs to slow down the difference in abilities a bit. Of course they aren't ranker level but at least they can participate at some level. AA always has his brains. Even Leesu can operate a, well, Ship.
And yet SIU can't realistically buff all Baam's regular friends in a similar manner. Hell, it will be increasingly hard to keep buffing just AA/Rak (though I think Rak has an easier path - just increasingly remove his curse seal).
AA's character has an issue with his father/FH and it's a big trope to overcome the 'bad' past generation (son surpasses father). It's also a trope that such a feat is seemingly impossible - until it isn't. Nevertheless, that's AA's entire raison d'etre. It strongly hints that he will succeed in a lesser path by being with the MC that succeeds in the greater (i.e., AA beats his father somehow while Baam defeats everything to include Zahard/135/admin whatever). And Rak is clearly destined to be much more than a chibi joke. (hints galore of his powerful race/history)
So how do you reconcile the fact that FH's as irregulars seemingly have the inability to be killed and are armed with things like shinwonry, etc?
Introduce a plot device that neutralizes that or puts the weaklings on equal footing to square off.
It's kind of a super-common thing to do - and expected. A bigger trope than the two previously mentioned - often tying in with them. If you don't think that by the conclusion of the series (if that ever happens...) the 'seemingly impossible issue with immortality of the FHs' will not be overcome/neutralized/figured out/worked around/etc you should probably stop reading now.
-Baam is that plot device.
-Baam's presence/effect on others is that plot device (also a big trope - I'm reminded of the Sutra in 'Journey to the West' or the Hogyoku cube in Bleach or a million other examples of seemingly normies being transformed merely by their proximity to something uber-important)
-100F is also that plot device. (could the regulars get a similar reward as Baam - immortality even - since they will participate under the rules they can be included with an irregular?)
-Gong Bang/Headon/Admin could be that plot device.
-Baam's ability to 'share' with others could be that plot device. (shrouding regulars in 'immortality-killing fields' or something equally ridiculous yet expected?)
-The fact that regulars can ride the coattails of irregulars when challenging floor tests (and share in the rewards) could be that plot device.
-The unknown abilities of the completed thorn (transformative? sharing? radius effect? neutralization of contracts?) could be that plot device
-Etc/unknown options
I'm pretty sure SIU has something in mind to ultimately propel the regulars to the stage (well, at least as satellite performers or opening acts) in the final act/battles and/or bring down the FH's a notch or two (if they don't end up turning on Zahard/each other anyways). Or at least I hope so. I give him enough credit that he's got a plan to reconcile the widening power differential of Baam and his side-pieces.
He's not so stupid as to not see this as a big issue for the end game (if he wants to continue to keep the regulars relevant and also solve the issue of FH immortality). That's one reason I think he continuously tries to downplay Baam's abilities and strength level in the blogs and even the action itself. He doesn't want Baam solo'ing the whole tower. If that's what you want to see you'll likely be disappointed short of a few bursts of extreme strength here and there. SIU won't write off the regulars entirely and has dragged them this far. Indicating he will continue to do so and keep Baam bottled up as long as possible. Meanwhile, buffing the regs with tech/spells and whathaveu.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Oh, also Baam's ability to dispel spells. That may extend into - or supercede - even contracts. Look what's happening in the most recent chap 471 (no spoilers). All Baam has to do is neutralize the spell and/or contract then the individual becomes mortal again - able to be fought by other mere mortals (regulars). I mean how many times have we seen some antagonist in ANY fantasy genre think they are invincible until something is presented that breaks that invincibility (usually a spell, weapon, artifact, lineage, tome, breaking something, etc) allowing them to be killed. There's ALWAYS a workaround to supposed invincibility in fantasy.
We know Enryu can overcome the insurmountable admin. If Baam has his full thorn and can overpower even the admin, he's above their contracts and could potentially force break them.
We also don't know how spells work in the tower but I suspect there may be a relation to contracts. Can a strong enough spell neutralize a contract? Can a strong enough spell neutralization neuter a contract? Maybe.
Maybe that's what Arlen had to find out how to do. She IS/WAS the spell-person FWIW. Her knowledge or even involvement at some level may come into play.
It's a huge stretch that most of bam's friends would ever reach FH level at all regardless of time. They simply don't have the privileges for it. As I've said before, I wouldn't even be surprised if gustang is able to beat kallavan in a fist fight.... without even using shinwonryu. And gustang isn't even an offensive wave controller let alone an offensive anything else. I will make the point that bam's friends reaching ranker level well before floor 134 is pretty much a given. Specially for the ones that were at the hidden floor. They were given a shortcut to their shinsoo qualities, their talent.... While by all appearances normal people within the tower have to pretty much just guess what their qualities are. In my head that looks like a person throwing a dark at a huge ass board and just spend 2 or 3 days trying to make it and then repeat until they get it right. I assume nobles have an easier time with this due to their heritage being a strong indicator of where to go. In any case, the gang having this will allow them to grow much faster.
You do realise this story needs to end right?
You do also understand that defeating Zahard is not the end right?
Logic dictates that Viole's nakama will be strong enough to defeat FH and then challenge floor 135 and above, refusing to believe shounen logic is your mistake here, the gang is destined to grow stronger than FH and climb the tower faster than Mazino, thats a given!
I have already shown you that they have completed almost 40% of the 134 floors in around 9-11 years, whats to stop them from reaching floor 134 in a similar time(even faster since FUG wont be getting in their way anymore and they will have more resources and high rank items thanks to FUG, also remember Viole and his nakama are walking a different path to anyone else before a new path that Viole is creating so its logical to think those walking this path are destined to open the tower and reach the outside world. you cant compare their abilities to those who failed and became losers of the tower like Zahard and the 10FH.
You do realise this story needs to end right?
You do also understand that defeating Zahard is not the end right?
Logic dictates that Viole's nakama will be strong enough to defeat FH and then challenge floor 135 and above, refusing to believe shounen logic is your mistake here, the gang is destined to grow stronger than FH and climb the tower faster than Mazino, thats a given!
I have already shown you that they have completed almost 40% of the 134 floors in around 9-11 years, whats to stop them from reaching floor 134 in a similar time(even faster since FUG wont be getting in their way anymore and they will have more resources and high rank items thanks to FUG, also remember Viole and his nakama are walking a different path to anyone else before a new path that Viole is creating so its logical to think those walking this path are destined to open the tower and reach the outside world. you cant compare their abilities to those who failed and became losers of the tower like Zahard and the 10FH.
Of course the story has to end but that is an entirely different thing from bam's friends having to defeat a family heads. Overall:
1.- bam's friends in fact can't overcome the immortality contract.
2.- Even if they can overcome the immortality contract, they lack the specks to actually become that strong. This is a series where hard work is not the main factor that determines strength but rather innate inborn talent. however talented bam's friends are, and they are all exceptionally talented by regular standards, none of them has anywhere near as much talent as a family head or bam. And as far as we have seen the family heads had talent about comparable to bam. If any of them had bam's talent, they'd simply be able to keep up with bam's growth. But they don't, so they can't. Androsi arguably was about a match or even stronger than bam up to around the hell train but that was in part due to how much stronger than him she started as.
3.- And to the cherry on top of bam's friends not having anywhere near as much talent as bam or the family heads is that they lack the privileges to match a family head. irregulars have from the get go unrestricted access to shinsoo while normal tower residents depend on how much administrators give them. Add to that the family heads having shinwonryu, a fundamentally different manner of shinsoo control which disperses conventional shinsoo control on contact.
The fact is that nothing we have ever seen in the story suggests the gang can become as strong as one family head. The context is fairly clear in that they literally can't. And they absolutely can't become as strong as a family head within a period as short as 100 years, let alone 40. Bam is the one with the great fate and the one that is meant to duke it out with zahard. As for the others, all bets are off. Not to mention that we don't even know which family heads will even side with zahard or bam in the future.
Of course the story has to end but that is an entirely different thing from bam's friends having to defeat a family heads. Overall:
1.- bam's friends in fact can't overcome the immortality contract.
2.- Even if they can overcome the immortality contract, they lack the specks to actually become that strong. This is a series where hard work is not the main factor that determines strength but rather innate inborn talent. however talented bam's friends are, and they are all exceptionally talented by regular standards, none of them has anywhere near as much talent as a family head or bam. And as far as we have seen the family heads had talent about comparable to bam. If any of them had bam's talent, they'd simply be able to keep up with bam's growth. But they don't, so they can't. Androsi arguably was about a match or even stronger than bam up to around the hell train but that was in part due to how much stronger than him she started as.
3.- And to the cherry on top of bam's friends not having anywhere near as much talent as bam or the family heads is that they lack the privileges to match a family head. irregulars have from the get go unrestricted access to shinsoo while normal tower residents depend on how much administrators give them. Add to that the family heads having shinwonryu, a fundamentally different manner of shinsoo control which disperses conventional shinsoo control on contact.
The fact is that nothing we have ever seen in the story suggests the gang can become as strong as one family head. The context is fairly clear in that they literally can't. And they absolutely can't become as strong as a family head within a period as short as 100 years, let alone 40. Bam is the one with the great fate and the one that is meant to duke it out with zahard. As for the others, all bets are off. Not to mention that we don't even know which family heads will even side with zahard or bam in the future.
Then you should realise that the FH will be defeated then
1. Viole is her to help them overcome this contracts because MC jitsu>everything else
2. Rak is a being that even Zahard and the FH fear, he will become as strong if not stronger than them, yes ward work means nothing but your forgetting that by them climbing with Viole none of that matters since their abilities will grow alongside his and they will become stronger than anyone else that is how shounen works.
3. They are walking the same path as Viole, a parth meant for him to become a god, their growth is different from the irregular or people who climbed with them, they are destined to become powerful enough to trump anyone on the road to open the tower. The FH have hex abilities but hex will always lose out to plot armor of protagonists
Eduan practically says Rak is a being strong enough for them to fear and that AA's talents are exceptional and this was even before AA started taking the climb seriously, it is become pretty apparent that you cant see the antagonists losing when every shounen should tell you thinking like that is wrong, the FH are going to lose to the team of Viole, the story is leading up to this, i really cant help you understand this.
Viole and his team are climbing the tower faster than anyone before them and at this speed reaching floor in less than years is a given, the FH have been portrait as villains from the very beginning none of them are good people, the probability of them turning on Zahard is practically ZERO, those who turn on him are most likely after power themselves and wont be working with Viole, so its upto Viole and FUG to defeat them, the FH are not upsolute beings, they can be defeated and they will.
It's a huge stretch that most of bam's friends would ever reach FH level at all regardless of time. They simply don't have the privileges for it. As I've said before, I wouldn't even be surprised if gustang is able to beat kallavan in a fist fight.... without even using shinwonryu. And gustang isn't even an offensive wave controller let alone an offensive anything else. I will make the point that bam's friends reaching ranker level well before floor 134 is pretty much a given. Specially for the ones that were at the hidden floor. They were given a shortcut to their shinsoo qualities, their talent.... While by all appearances normal people within the tower have to pretty much just guess what their qualities are. In my head that looks like a person throwing a dark at a huge ass board and just spend 2 or 3 days trying to make it and then repeat until they get it right. I assume nobles have an easier time with this due to their heritage being a strong indicator of where to go. In any case, the gang having this will allow them to grow much faster.
Having an irregular team mate i think changes things. May be their fates change to make them abnormally powerful despite not born with that potential. May be a side effect in walking the same path as an irregular walks changes things for them too. Its like basking the sun you get warm the closer you are to the sun and more exposed you are. Koon and Rak esp Koon practically follow Bam around and the buffs he gets the people he fights and manages is unreal for other climbers.
So far Bams close allies are shooting to a power level that no C rankers have or i doubt even above avg B rankers have. They are using their shinso quality at will. One got ancient spear other got ever buffing healer spirit the Enna core I wouldnt be surprised if he gets the Opera later. These arent things that you would normally get but being with Bam changes things. Androssi was taught by Yuri and learned her kamehameha along with her shinso type when she was tagging along with Bam
Vs side kick Lulsec is one of the most powerful regular in the tower so is Ureks best friend Baek. I am fairly sure being friends with an irregular and loyal ally will actually change the power cap that one can achieve and the rate at which one can get there; to the point while not someone to be feared it might be enough to be taken seriously even by FHs. Honestly, I can see Koon to be buffed enough by the time they reach their max potential to be somewhere around top 30.
To pretend otherwise is to think you are reading Solo leveling while you are reading ToG.
Also the FH are Bams worries not his friends. If Bam has Enryus weapon and reaches his full potential with the current system where FHs might not be united under Zahard things might not be Bamm v 10 and his friends might be a good source to idk plan things out. Zahard can see the future but Bam can most likely over ride that so it might even be a fair fight where planning acutally works against zahard by some stretch.
Vs side kick Lulsec is one of the most powerful regular in the tower so is Ureks best friend Baek. I am fairly sure being friends with an irregular and loyal ally will actually change the power cap that one can achieve and the rate at which one can get there; to the point while not someone to be feared it might be enough to be taken seriously even by FHs. Honestly, I can see Koon to be buffed enough by the time they reach their max potential to be somewhere around top 30.
True, but they didnt become strong in just 50 to 100 years. And i wouldnt just say Lulsec and Beak could defeat a FH in 1 vs 1, yes to could (maybe) face them and fight with them to a crazy lvl. but not defeat them
Baam at most needed only 12, 13 years to climb to 50+ floor, from here on he will climb even faster(in my opinion), u really think SIU would boost AA and Rak to the lvl of Lulsec and Beak in matter of 50 (even in 500 years)? this would break the whole tower world
I am not saying Baams friend wont become strong, yes they will but not even near to baams-speed-of-growth.
Practically we know nothing about Baam. this dude entered the Tower as kid that is 5-6 years old theoretically. Yes alone Baams existence is enough to bring everyone of his teammate beyond there level cap(like max lvl + 10 maybe). But this wont happen this fast as some of u guys r telling.
(hopefully it doesnt happen this fast if it did it would destroy the whole story for me)
PS.: sry for my english ^^
True, but they didnt become strong in just 50 to 100 years. And i wouldnt just say Lulsec and Beak could defeat a FH in 1 vs 1, yes to could (maybe) face them and fight with them to a crazy lvl. but not defeat them
Baam at most needed only 12, 13 years to climb to 50+ floor, from here on he will climb even faster(in my opinion), u really think SIU would boost AA and Rak to the lvl of Lulsec and Beak in matter of 50 (even in 500 years)? this would break the whole tower world
I am not saying Baams friend wont become strong, yes they will but not even near to baams-speed-of-growth.
Practically we know nothing about Baam. this dude entered the Tower as kid that is 5-6 years old theoretically. Yes alone Baams existence is enough to bring everyone of his teammate beyond there level cap(like max lvl + 10 maybe). But this wont happen this fast as some of u guys r telling.
(hopefully it doesnt happen this fast if it did it would destroy the whole story for me)
PS.: sry for my english ^^
Your english is great no worries .
Honestly idk what to expect SIU did paint himself in the corner its not a manga like solo leveling but the MC is op so are the enemies as such this seems like the only way out if he wants to retain the old characters. With regards to time simply put it could be something like the essence of bravery type boost that the guys would receive, who really knows. Looking at the current war /impending war it seems SIU is trying to make those characters still relevant somehow.
Koon can be shown to be the super abnormal brain that he is, to actually awaken some future seeing ability like khel hellam. Zahards future seeing ability might be moot as Koon is essentially planning to make Bam get what he wants and thus Bams ability to overturn fate comes to play. That might make him the best person to lead the war in terms of tactics against Zahard. Not all cards are played and inventing new cards within the dec isnt really impossible just as yet
True, but they didnt become strong in just 50 to 100 years. And i wouldnt just say Lulsec and Beak could defeat a FH in 1 vs 1, yes to could (maybe) face them and fight with them to a crazy lvl. but not defeat them
Baam at most needed only 12, 13 years to climb to 50+ floor, from here on he will climb even faster(in my opinion), u really think SIU would boost AA and Rak to the lvl of Lulsec and Beak in matter of 50 (even in 500 years)? this would break the whole tower world
I am not saying Baams friend wont become strong, yes they will but not even near to baams-speed-of-growth.
Practically we know nothing about Baam. this dude entered the Tower as kid that is 5-6 years old theoretically. Yes alone Baams existence is enough to bring everyone of his teammate beyond there level cap(like max lvl + 10 maybe). But this wont happen this fast as some of u guys r telling.
(hopefully it doesnt happen this fast if it did it would destroy the whole story for me)
PS.: sry for my english ^^
The story needs to end, every shounen main cast reaches their peak strength faster than anyone before them, SIU cant make any major time skips because the war has already begun, Zahard wont just call FUG and say "hey you know what ill give you a few hundred years to grow enough to beat me", they will surpass the FH in less than 25 years and challenge the higher floors.
P.S Viole reached floor 52 in +-10 years, no way has he been in tower for more than 11
Then you should realise that the FH will be defeated then
1. Viole is her to help them overcome this contracts because MC jitsu>everything else
2. Rak is a being that even Zahard and the FH fear, he will become as strong if not stronger than them, yes ward work means nothing but your forgetting that by them climbing with Viole none of that matters since their abilities will grow alongside his and they will become stronger than anyone else that is how shounen works.
3. They are walking the same path as Viole, a parth meant for him to become a god, their growth is different from the irregular or people who climbed with them, they are destined to become powerful enough to trump anyone on the road to open the tower. The FH have hex abilities but hex will always lose out to plot armor of protagonists
Eduan practically says Rak is a being strong enough for them to fear and that AA's talents are exceptional and this was even before AA started taking the climb seriously, it is become pretty apparent that you cant see the antagonists losing when every shounen should tell you thinking like that is wrong, the FH are going to lose to the team of Viole, the story is leading up to this, i really cant help you understand this.
Viole and his team are climbing the tower faster than anyone before them and at this speed reaching floor in less than years is a given, the FH have been portrait as villains from the very beginning none of them are good people, the probability of them turning on Zahard is practically ZERO, those who turn on him are most likely after power themselves and wont be working with Viole, so its upto Viole and FUG to defeat them, the FH are not upsolute beings, they can be defeated and they will.
That's pretty convenient but it comes nowhere near close to actually solving the issues around the family heads.
Sure, rak is a bit of a wildcard in this case but at a minimum so far he hasn't evidenced that he actually has THAT much talent. A part of his power is still sealed of course but even then, he doesn't seem to be up there yet. And it is worth noting that the ancients within khel and evankhel are nowhere near that powerful. It's a safe bet that rak has more potential than either of those ancients of course but that's not quite the same as rak having the potential to reach a family head. Given that even those appear to be fodder to a family head.
Bam is walking a sort of path to godhood. His friends are just kinda tagging along. As of now there is exactly zero evidence that bam's friends can ever become that strong. The story would require substantial context and rule changes to actually justify his bam's gang essentially catching up to him. So far aguero and rak have been useful but they have relied on aguero's lightbearing rather than his raw power and rak's unusual powers which catch enemies off guard along with bam's power which continues to impress people.
Certainly the story will deal with the family heads somehow but that somehow is almost certainly not bam's friends raw power.
Logic dictates that Viole's nakama will be strong enough to defeat FH and then challenge floor 135 and above, refusing to believe shounen logic is your mistake here, the gang is destined to grow stronger than FH and climb the tower faster than Mazino, thats a given!
Which shounen did this ever happen in? The shounen formula is more like what other people are describing. The protagonist rises to that godlike level and the friends get left behind and relegated to cheerleader status. Happened in DBZ, happened in Bleach, happened in Naruto, so on and so forth.
It already is happening and for the most part already has in Tower of God.
Which shounen did this ever happen in? The shounen formula is more like what other people are describing. The protagonist rises to that godlike level and the friends get left behind and relegated to cheerleader status. Happened in DBZ, happened in Bleach, happened in Naruto, so on and so forth.
It already is happening and for the most part already has in Tower of God.
Every shounen follows that formula. Sure the friends get left behind but their power eventually surpasses that of the villains, take Bleach for example, Ichigo left his friends far behind but they were not weak, during their battle with the final antagonists, Rukia, Renji, Orihime and Ishida where all capable in their own right and were able to hold their own and even solo in their fights, even though their power where nothing compared to Ichigo.
AA and the rest will be the same, while they will not match up to Zahard and Viole, their power will be enough for them to hold their own vs Zahard's underlings(10 FH) and during their climb above floor 134 they will completely surpass them and fight stronger enemies at the top or even outside the tower.
Every shounen follows that formula. Sure the friends get left behind but their power eventually surpasses that of the villains, take Bleach for example, Ichigo left his friends far behind but they were not weak, during their battle with the final antagonists, Rukia, Renji, Orihime and Ishida where all capable in their own right and were able to hold their own and even solo in their fights, even though their power where nothing compared to Ichigo.
AA and the rest will be the same, while they will not match up to Zahard and Viole, their power will be enough for them to hold their own vs Zahard's underlings(10 FH) and during their climb above floor 134 they will completely surpass them and fight stronger enemies at the top or even outside the tower.
Most of those weren't there actually. Chad was relegated to fighting.... sand things off screen. Orihime did nothing. Ishida got a shred of relevance because of a mcguffin. As it is, it'd be a miracle if within a few thousand years the gang gets to hold their own against army commanders/head branches.
That's pretty convenient but it comes nowhere near close to actually solving the issues around the family heads.
Sure, rak is a bit of a wildcard in this case but at a minimum so far he hasn't evidenced that he actually has THAT much talent. A part of his power is still sealed of course but even then, he doesn't seem to be up there yet. And it is worth noting that the ancients within khel and evankhel are nowhere near that powerful. It's a safe bet that rak has more potential than either of those ancients of course but that's not quite the same as rak having the potential to reach a family head. Given that even those appear to be fodder to a family head.
Bam is walking a sort of path to godhood. His friends are just kinda tagging along. As of now there is exactly zero evidence that bam's friends can ever become that strong. The story would require substantial context and rule changes to actually justify his bam's gang essentially catching up to him. So far aguero and rak have been useful but they have relied on aguero's lightbearing rather than his raw power and rak's unusual powers which catch enemies off guard along with bam's power which continues to impress people.
Certainly the story will deal with the family heads somehow but that somehow is almost certainly not bam's friends raw power.
Plot convenience will happen to solve everything, it happens in every shounen.
The story is building his team up as especially exceptional individuals, who at every floor do the impossible and come out on top, also you are underestimating those ancients, remember Khel and Evank cant use their full power because an admin will interfere and stop them, not even the 10 FH can do anything vs admins.
The nakama are not just tagging along but they are also walking that same path with him, the story has given us plenty evidence that they will be that strong:
1) They are currently climbing the tower faster than anyone, even faster than Mazino
2) There is probably no C rank who can even hope to challenge them, the stronger members are probably already A rank level ragulars
The story has already implied that because of the path they are walking currently, the norm doesnt apply to them since they are walking a new path created by Viole, this was probably said to tell us that their growth is different since no one has ever climbed like them before.
The story is leading to the downfall of Zahard and his 10GW by the hands of Viole and his nakame (his core team + FUG and slayers), the story has been building up to this and its making it very clear that FUG under Viole will be strong enough to win the war vs the irregulars.
Most of those weren't there actually. Chad was relegated to fighting.... sand things off screen. Orihime did nothing. Ishida got a shred of relevance because of a mcguffin. As it is, it'd be a miracle if within a few thousand years the gang gets to hold their own against army commanders/head branches.
Chad was AFK during the last battle, Orihime fought Juha Bach with Ichigo and she was able to block his attacks and even heal the damage made by them which should have been impossible since Juha was a god, but she was able to anyway since Shounen Logic.
Ishida was able to solo the 2nd strongest guy in the verse.
The story needs to end and the war has already begun, so thinking anything like the plot will go on for more than a several decades is just setting yourself up for disappointment, withing 15-20 years they will have reached floor 134 and Zahard and the 10FH will lose then and there, the story is building up to it.
For those that DON'T think Baam's posse will stay relevant - regardless of SIU's treatment of them - how exactly do you expect this to play out? The regulars sit in hover chairs and watch Baam solo the remaining 3/5 of the tower? Because you know they're coming along for the ride.
Even IF they can't singularly take on someone like a FH in time, Baam will undoubtedly play a role that brings down the FH's - same as he's doing at the Nest to a lesser extent. His power will activate the ability for those that otherwise couldn't attack the opportunity to do so.
SOMETHING will happen. It's not enough to just keep repeating 'but but but the FH are immortal' - we know. That is what the MC+ have to contend with. The SEEMINGLY insurmountable odds against them. But HOW they overcome that is the question.
Baam will spear-head the fight. He'll cause a crack in the Z empire/FH kingships same as Kallavan's stomach. The rest will pour through. Baam's job is to take on the big baddie (Zahard and/or who knows what else). The likelihood he'll take the FH's one at a time with everything going on (as if they just sit by waiting to be 1 V 1...) isn't very likely.
The only limit is SIU's imagination. There will be something to overcome the god-like status of the FHs. It happens EVERY TIME without fail when an enemy thinks they are invincible/invulnerable/immortal.
Perhaps Baam will 'share' abilities to empower those close to hiim.
Perhaps Gong Bang has a way to 'irregular-ize' regulars (seeing as they can literally create admin like creatures, exist outside, and can create indestructible creatures that can use shinwonryu
Perhaps when the thorn is fully activated it will nullify contracts/shinsoo control in an area effect at Baam's whim
Perhaps an admin will grant special contract status at 100F - or any floor for that matter - to the regulars for riding Baam's coattails when he passes a test.
Perhaps a spell is discovered that Arlen used to make herself mortal again.
Perhaps any number of other things
It's just silly to keep repeating how they are immortal and can't be beaten when it's obvious they will be and it's similarly obvious that SIU will keep the regulars as relevant as possible - up to and including the finale.
I bet no one thought during S1 that AA would be using a ranker-level all-but-resurrection healing ability that can also buff rankers several levels up or Rak would be using a spear of ancients that even a mid-ranker couldn't wield the best. And it's only 50F or so. So what the hell buffs do you think they'll get at 80? 100? Just before final floor?
Plot convenience will happen to solve everything, it happens in every shounen.
The story is building his team up as especially exceptional individuals, who at every floor do the impossible and come out on top, also you are underestimating those ancients, remember Khel and Evank cant use their full power because an admin will interfere and stop them, not even the 10 FH can do anything vs admins.
The nakama are not just tagging along but they are also walking that same path with him, the story has given us plenty evidence that they will be that strong:
1) They are currently climbing the tower faster than anyone, even faster than Mazino
2) There is probably no C rank who can even hope to challenge them, the stronger members are probably already A rank level ragulars
The story has already implied that because of the path they are walking currently, the norm doesnt apply to them since they are walking a new path created by Viole, this was probably said to tell us that their growth is different since no one has ever climbed like them before.
The story is leading to the downfall of Zahard and his 10GW by the hands of Viole and his nakame (his core team + FUG and slayers), the story has been building up to this and its making it very clear that FUG under Viole will be strong enough to win the war vs the irregulars.
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Chad was AFK during the last battle, Orihime fought Juha Bach with Ichigo and she was able to block his attacks and even heal the damage made by them which should have been impossible since Juha was a god, but she was able to anyway since Shounen Logic.
Ishida was able to solo the 2nd strongest guy in the verse.
The story needs to end and the war has already begun, so thinking anything like the plot will go on for more than a several decades is just setting yourself up for disappointment, withing 15-20 years they will have reached floor 134 and Zahard and the 10FH will lose then and there, the story is building up to it.
Certainly plot will play a part here but I maintain my point that the series is simply not building up bam's crew to stand up against family heads, at least in terms of raw power.
Well, yeah, but it is pretty much a fact that bam's friends are not on their path to matching the family heads. If they were then their growth would be comparable to bam's AND their power would be creeping closer to bam's. Instead what is happening is that the gap between bam and his friends gets immensely wider by the second.
I could see aguero outsmarting some family heads. I could see rak annoying one enough that he walks out of the fight to simply not deal with that shit anymore. BUT a straight up victory in simple combat against one.... That's not what SIU is doing with the story right now. Bam's friend's growth is only exceptional among regulars. But its nowhere near where bam's is, which is presumably about comparable to where the family heads were at this point in their climb.
For those that DON'T think Baam's posse will stay relevant - regardless of SIU's treatment of them - how exactly do you expect this to play out? The regulars sit in hover chairs and watch Baam solo the remaining 3/5 of the tower? Because you know they're coming along for the ride.
Isn't that mostly what they're already doing? Baam's 'posse' as it were, seems to be changing anyway. Koon and Rak are continuing to hang around, and everyone else is slowly drifting away. Their roles around Baam being replaced by bigger fish. Where we once had Androssi, Ran, et cetera we now have Evankhell, Cha, Karaka and Yama. And if those people become obsolete, others will come again.
For those that DON'T think Baam's posse will stay relevant - regardless of SIU's treatment of them - how exactly do you expect this to play out? The regulars sit in hover chairs and watch Baam solo the remaining 3/5 of the tower? Because you know they're coming along for the ride.
Even IF they can't singularly take on someone like a FH in time, Baam will undoubtedly play a role that brings down the FH's - same as he's doing at the Nest to a lesser extent. His power will activate the ability for those that otherwise couldn't attack the opportunity to do so.
SOMETHING will happen. It's not enough to just keep repeating 'but but but the FH are immortal' - we know. That is what the MC+ have to contend with. The SEEMINGLY insurmountable odds against them.
Baam will spear-head the fight. He'll cause a crack in the Z empire/FH kingships same as Kallavan's stomach. The rest will pour through.
The only limit is SIU's imagination. There will be something to overcome the god-like status of the FHs. It happens EVERY TIME without fail when an enemy thinks they are invincible/invulnerable/immortal.
Perhaps Baam will 'share' abilities to empower those close to hiim.
Perhaps Gong Bang has a way to 'irregular-ize' regulars (seeing as they can literally create admin like creatures, exist outside, and can create indestructible creatures that can use shinwonryu
Perhaps when the thorn is fully activated it will nullify contracts/shinsoo control in an area effect at Baam's whim
Perhaps an admin will grant special contract status at 100F - or any floor for that matter - to the regulars for riding Baam's coattails when he passes a test.
Perhaps a spell is discovered that Arlen used to make herself mortal again.
Perhaps any number of other things
It's just silly to keep repeating how they are immortal and can't be beaten when it's obvious they will be and it's similarly obvious that SIU will keep the regulars as relevant as possible - up to and including the finale.
The issue is not the immortality. The issue is that literally nothing is going on to suggest bam's friends will accomplish such feats, ever. In the scenario as presented above bam's friends will have to deal with this sometime within a few decades and a couple hundred years, assuming the story extends past getting to floor 135. Literally nothing that has happened to bam's friends so far suggest that within such a minuscule amount of time they will acquire the raw power and skills to take on a family head. The immortality is not even a factor in this case. for bam's friends to take on a family head within that timeframe the bare minimum their need is about bam's growth rate, which they don't and can't have.
I am all for bam sharing abilities with his peers but even that won't be enough to make them strong enough to take on family heads. Even the thrysas wouldn't do that for bam's friends and those are fucking admin powers (as urek made the point that hell joe would get annihilated if he climbed the tower with his powers).
The FHs aren't merely immortal by contract, they are supremely skilled in their main positions and presumably extremely skilled in the ones that they don't main as as well. Hence my suggestion that it shouldn't be the least bit surprising that gustang can beat kallavan in a fucking fist fight without shinwonryu (though in this case I assume free use of reinforcement for both sides).
The absolute bare minimum to suggest there is a fraction of a possibility that bam's friends might take on family heads is that their growth rate becomes comparable to bam's. Without that crucial bare minimum there is literally everything that has ever happened in this series to suggest that this simply won't be bam's friends role.
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It is also worth noting that aguero will always be relevant to bam regardless of how strong he actually is. Aguero is a light bearer, his usefulness goes beyond just raw power.
Certainly plot will play a part here but I maintain my point that the series is simply not building up bam's crew to stand up against family heads, at least in terms of raw power.
Well, yeah, but it is pretty much a fact that bam's friends are not on their path to matching the family heads. If they were then their growth would be comparable to bam's AND their power would be creeping closer to bam's. Instead what is happening is that the gap between bam and his friends gets immensely wider by the second.
I could see aguero outsmarting some family heads. I could see rak annoying one enough that he walks out of the fight to simply not deal with that shit anymore. BUT a straight up victory in simple combat against one.... That's not what SIU is doing with the story right now. Bam's friend's growth is only exceptional among regulars. But its nowhere near where bam's is, which is presumably about comparable to where the family heads were at this point in their climb.
It looks like your mind is set on the fact that Zahard and the FH cant be defeated, i cant keep doing this song and dance with you anymore since you fail to realise that this story has to end and the good guys will beat the bad guys in the end and save everyone.
I mean SIU keeps making team Viole's abilities far above anything the tower has seen, most of them are already some of the strongest regulars in the tower, he keeps buffing them and making them face rankers with no problems at all, they took 10years to climb 40% of the tower and are on their way to reach floor 134 in under 25 years, yet you still refuse to see that team Viole is special even amongst irregulars, also you keep comparing them to Zahard and the others saying they are not as strong while using data feats as reference, forgetting that team Viole went to the data floor before even completing the hell train unlike Zahard and the others, Viole within a week went from being inferior to Zahard to beating him, AA within a weak went from being extremely weak to being able to beat Bam's sworn enemy, to even completing the hardest test on that floor, test even harder than anything they had to face together and even almost lose while they were a group(Asensio, Boro, Sachi, etc) but AA casually solo'd that test as if its nothing, that power up alone puts AA above Asensio and Maschenny even before completing the hell train unlike them at that point.
You keep refusing to accept that team Viole is made up of exceptional people who the author is hell bent on making powerful and useful in fights vs High Rankers, but you cant see this
It looks like your mind is set on the fact that Zahard and the FH cant be defeated, i cant keep doing this song and dance with you anymore since you fail to realise that this story has to end and the good guys will beat the bad guys in the end and save everyone.
I mean SIU keeps making team Viole's abilities far above anything the tower has seen, most of them are already some of the strongest regulars in the tower, he keeps buffing them and making them face rankers with no problems at all, they took 10years to climb 40% of the tower and are on their way to reach floor 134 in under 25 years, yet you still refuse to see that team Viole is special even amongst irregulars, also you keep comparing them to Zahard and the others saying they are not as strong while using data feats as reference, forgetting that team Viole went to the data floor before even completing the hell train unlike Zahard and the others, Viole within a week went from being inferior to Zahard to beating him, AA within a weak went from being extremely weak to being able to beat Bam's sworn enemy, to even completing the hardest test on that floor, test even harder than anything they had to face together and even almost lose while they were a group(Asensio, Boro, Sachi, etc) but AA casually solo'd that test as if its nothing, that power up alone puts AA above Asensio and Maschenny even before completing the hell train unlike them at that point.
You keep refusing to accept that team Viole is made up of exceptional people who the author is hell bent on making powerful and useful in fights vs High Rankers, but you cant see this
I am not saying zahard and co can't be defeated. I am saying they can't be defeated by bam's friends in simple combat, that is an immensely important distinction.
Errh, bam's friends are exceptional but the framing that their abilities are far beyond anything the tower has ever seen is wrong. Aguero has his ice spear, which is a rare quality, but is also shared by people of his lineage. Rak inherited powers which zahard tried to eliminate. Hatz is remarkable for being able to use swordsmanship as a regular this high up the tower but while uncommon it's not exactly far above anything the tower has ever seen. leesoo... is just smart and otherwise has nothing else going for him besides perhaps above average physical combat (average by regular standards). Basically, it's all been seen in the tower before. The only one among bam's companions who has a power that might fit into having powers above anything the tower has ever seen is androsi with her plausibly rare enough to be unique shinsoo quality.
As for bam's companions being among the strongest regulars in the tower..... that's pretty damn unlikely. They are exceptional among regulars, sure, but to be among the strongest in the tower they'd have to be comparable to A ranks or the ranks immediate beneath rankers. And that is a bit of a stretch. Bam's friends are probably well above standard C ranks but nothing we have seen suggests they could hold a candle to whatever comes right before a ranker.
I am not refusing to accept that bam's friends are exceptional. I have pointed it out repeatedly. But if they were on their way to fight the FHs then they should be keeping up with bam. And they aren't.
Add to that, rak and aguero have been supporting bam in fighting rankers... but they only manage that because bam is there. Without bam being with them neither aguero or rak would be able to hold a candle to a ranker currently. Aguero in the hidden floor made the case that power was useless to him because it won't help him beat eduan..... He did change his mind about becoming stronger BUT he wasn't wrong about his potential to defeat eduan. When the group has fought rankers SIU consistently makes the point that the context is advantageous to aguero and rak....
It's absurd to think that bam's friends suddenly have a chance against family heads in the long run for something as insignificant as a cheat code to find what specifically is each one's shinsoo quality. Data eduan was able to trade punches with data zahard at the hidden floor... That's not something aguero then could have done. It's not something aguero or rak could do now.... Sure, they could pull a scratch on data zahard if he takes it as easy as he did on mascheny but that's hardly a relevant feat at the scale we are talking about now.
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