Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Axiomus]

If you say so. Anyways, I'm moving our conversation from the Gray vs Mirajane thread about POF to this thread to avoid off-topic discussion on that thread.

You do realize that speed is a factor in kinetic energy right? Anyone being that has Black Magic, he is obviously making the connection there

Yup. I'm factoring it in. Lucy with no magic and Happy's speed is still much weaker than Natsu with magic in terms of physical strength. He can literally overpower stuff that would kill Lucy and Happy combined, even if Lucy had her magic. Natsu can literally knock Lucy across the town in his sleep, and this is not a figure of speech.

Spoiler: Natsu throwing Dorma Anim

Spoiler: Natsu reflecting Gajeel's roars with his hands

Spoiler: Sleeping Natsu punching Lucy

By the way, only reason Natsu didn't fight Kain Hikaru himself was literally because he was too stupid to melt the rocks around him.

Spoiler: Natsu realizing he could have just melted the rocks

He literally says that any human being can use darkness. Just because he says darkness is the origin of black magic, it doesn't mean only people who use black magic can use it. That's a non sequitur.

 

[WoWfan]

You images are broken again, Happy is fast enough to dodge a beam of light so that is intense speed to help out in this, which helps a lot, besides that, that would make her scale to Hikaru with aid. Any human that utilizes Black Magic, there is no evidence that it does either, Sting tried to fight with everything he has, but Natsu with PoF casually defeated him, it is only with PoF that Sting became stronger than before.

 

[Axiomus]

You images are broken again, Happy is fast enough to dodge a beam of light so that is intense speed to help out in this, which helps a lot, besides that, that would make her scale to Hikaru with aid. Any human that utilizes Black Magic, there is no evidence that it does either, Sting tried to fight with everything he has, but Natsu with PoF casually defeated him, it is only with PoF that Sting became stronger than before.

I labelled my images, so you can find them yourself. I shouldn't have to post a bunch of images to make a point with what should be common knowledge anyways.

Anyways, Natsu dodged Sting's lasers. So Happy dodging light isn't anything impressive. Not that it matters, because Lucy even with Max Speed isn't overpowering any of the things Natsu can overpower with his brute strength if he's actually trying.

Invel didn't say only humans that utilizes black magic can use darkness. He said it's a tremendous source of power, one that any human can possess.

 

[WoWfan]

I saw them, still Lucy at relativistic speed would still yield high results, Anyone being a black wizard

 

[Axiomus]

I saw them, still Lucy at relativistic speed would still yield high results, Anyone being a black wizard

Whatever you say. Lucy fire is still not stronger than Natsu with just his brute strength if he's going all out.

Invel said any human being, not any black wizard.

 

[WoWfan]

Still combining his magic to Lucy, even magic is physical power as well, humans can be black wizards

 

[Axiomus]

Still combining his magic to Lucy, even magic is physical power as well, humans can be black wizards

He used a tiny bit of his fire on the doll and had Happy fly her. Lucy had no magic power of her own, and Natsu barely used any of his. Lucy fire was a weak attack, and Kain Hikaru was the weakest of the Seven Kin of Purgatory.

Obviously. But they don't have to be. Invel says that any human being can possess darkness.

 

[WoWfan]

Tiny bit yet covered entire body, I did not say Lucy’s magic power, still overpowered Natsu. we do not see any villains besides Demons and Black Wizards use the darkness as strength

 

[Axiomus]

Tiny bit yet covered entire body, I did not say Lucy’s magic power, still overpowered Natsu. we do not see any villains besides Demons and Black Wizards use the darkness as strength

Because the fire scales to the doll, and the doll caught on fire. Doesn't change the fact Natsu only used a tiny amount of magic on the doll. Hikaru got the better of a non-serious Natsu in a few exchanges, and the only reason he didn't keep fighting was because he was literally too stupid to remember he could just melt the rocks. If Natsu fought Hikaru in the same state he fought Zancrow, Hikaru would get crushed.

Dragon seeds are seeds of darkness, and both Irene and Acnologia has them.

 

[WoWfan]

Wrong about humans as Anyone being black wizards and demons can use them, she was not as she was just awakening and does not use her full strength when fighting, especially when people are able to see. And she lost most of her magic before fighting Azuma

 

[WoWfan]

That does not make sense, if element applied to doll scales, then it is not a power up at all, Doll even amplifies Kain, since he did not have it, he was basically beating Natsu with standard strength, as-tu was definitely serious, especially when his friends are in danger. That is an excuse seeing as he can use fire. Seeds of darkness are just a name and have no seem value as Black Magic.

 

[Axiomus]

That does not make sense, if element applied to doll scales, then it is not a power up at all, Doll even amplifies Kain, since he did not have it, he was basically beating Natsu with standard strength, as-tu was definitely serious, especially when his friends are in danger. That is an excuse seeing as he can use fire. Seeds of darkness are just a name and have no seem value as Black Magic.

It makes perfect sense. The doll amplifies the target if you use magic on it. Natsu used a tiny bit of his magic to set the doll's arm on fire, spread over the whole body when Happy started moving. Natsu wasn't serious. He was happy-go-lucky in all of his exchanges with Kain. There was maybe a brief moment where he may have gotten serious when Kain started torturing Lucy, but as soon as he found the doll he went back to just taking it easy. Natsu forgetting to use fire to melt the rock is not an excuse I'm making. It's what happened. Happy literally asks Natsu why he didn't just melt the rocks, and he was like "oh yeah!!" and then did it.

Seeds of darkness is an example of darkness. Nowhere in the entire manga does it ever say that only Black Magic can use darkness. Invel says it's a source of power that any human being can possess. Dragon Seeds are seeds of darkness. For Natsu, it grew when he had doubts about his humanity and those emotions were his darkness. For other characters, the seeds would have grown from the darkness they felt in their hearts as well.

 

[WoWfan]

Even before using his fire on Lucy, Natsu stated that this is the strongest Lucy ever, and it makes sense seeing as it is Natsu controlling her. Natsu is still putting effort into this fight especially when he was easily overcome by Kain’s attacks, he would not standby for seeing Lucy suffer yet he could not do anything by himself.

okay, I will give you that for Natsu not thinking about getting out, that does not excuse him for not getting serious when Lucy was being hurt in front of him, not getting serious.

Not darkness in the sense it makes you stronger, it is a transformation which still retcons how it works before, yes it does, Invel makes the comparison. Yet it did not grow from Irene’s darkness when she had positive feelings inside her.

 

[Axiomus]

Wrong about humans as Anyone being black wizards and demons can use them, she was not as she was just awakening and does not use her full strength when fighting, especially when people are able to see. And she lost most of her magic before fighting Azuma

It's literally said that darkness is a source of power that any human being can possess. Any other limitations is simply not stated in the manga, and are made up by you. Yes, users of black magic originated from darkness and demons also use negative emotions for their curses. It doesn't change the fact that any human being can use darkness as a source of power.

Nobody was able to see her fight Freed. Say it like it is: She lost most of her magic fighting Elfman and Evergreen. Anyways, none of this changes the fact that Mirajane was very emotional when she fought Freed and Azuma, and emotions makes people stronger. Every character from Fairy Tail guild uses power of emotions when they're fighting seriously against a major threat, and to pretend that Mirajane is somehow exempt from this is to miss the point of the manga entirely.

 

[Axiomus]

Even before using his fire on Lucy, Natsu stated that this is the strongest Lucy ever, and it makes sense seeing as it is Natsu controlling her. Natsu is still putting effort into this fight especially when he was easily overcome by Kain’s attacks, he would not standby for seeing Lucy suffer yet he could not do anything by himself.

okay, I will give you that for Natsu not thinking about getting out, that does not excuse him for not getting serious when Lucy was being hurt in front of him, not getting serious.

Not darkness in the sense it makes you stronger, it is a transformation which still retcons how it works before, yes it does, Invel makes the comparison. Yet it did not grow from Irene’s darkness when she had positive feelings inside her.

Yeah, and she was still weaker than Natsu physically even when the doll was strengthening her. Lucy fire is basically the same as Natsu setting himself on fire and Happy flying him in for a kick, only weaker because Lucy has less physical strength than Natsu.

You're not going seriously trying to tell me Natsu was taking Kain as seriously as he was taking Gajeel, Dorma Anim, Hades, Zero, Zancrow, ect. He spent most of the fight being goofy. There was like a brief moment where he was about to get serious, and then he found the doll and went back to being goofy. If Natsu truly got to the point where he was fully serious then he would have set himself on fire, melted the rocks, and kept fighting. It didn't get to that point.

Does the transformation into a dragon not make you strong? Look, I'll say to you what I said on the other threat. Invel says in these exact words "It's a tremendous source of power, one that any human beings can possess". Any other limitation simply isn't stated in the manga, and is something that you're making up. Yes, black magic originated from darkness and demons use negative emotions for their curse power as well. However, this doesn't change the fact that any human being can also use darkness as a source of power. Invel never made the claim that black magic and darkness are mutually exclusive, just that one originated from the other.

 

[WoWfan]

any human and demon that uses curse and/or black magic. There is no implication that the darkness does work like PoF does which is friendship and bonds and love. yes they would, they are literally in the same area, even people in town can see the fight. This also does not change the fact that Mira was not fighting at full power with what little power she had left. She stated that is how she fights, even in GMG

 

[WoWfan]

It was strengthened by Natsu's strength and power, and is considered an Ultimate Attack. If he was serious he would not have just laid there and watched Lucy suffer, that is just awfully cruel, unless you are saying that he enjoys seeing others suffer. Transformation just changes you, especially when it is the side affect of a magic that does not give you that freedom of usage. Invel said that as reference to those who have black magic, and it makes sense as Zeref's darkness was what brought about his black magic to begin with. it makes sense as any human that has darkness can use it as a source of power for black magic.

 

[Axiomus]

It was strengthened by Natsu's strength and power, and is considered an Ultimate Attack. If he was serious he would not have just laid there and watched Lucy suffer, that is just awfully cruel, unless you are saying that he enjoys seeing others suffer. Transformation just changes you, especially when it is the side affect of a magic that does not give you that freedom of usage. Invel said that as reference to those who have black magic, and it makes sense as Zeref's darkness was what brought about his black magic to begin with. it makes sense as any human that has darkness can use it as a source of power for black magic.

He used a tiny bit of his magic to set the doll's hand on fire. He can call it whatever he wants, but it's not even a secret art. Nor did it use up most of his MP, as he went on to fight Bluenote and then Hades afterwards. If he was serious, then he would have set himself on fire and broken free. Exactly what he ended up doing after the fight was over when Happy reminded him he could. That didn't happen.

You're telling me turning into a dragon doesn't make you stronger? They literally get physically stronger, and Irene even gets access to master enchant spells.

Invel said that black magic originated from darkness and that the root of Zeref's power is darkness. He did not say only people with black magic can use darkness. In fact, he said the opposite. He said that it was a source of power that any human being can possess.

 

[Hexbend]

Ikusatsunagi was summoned by Arlock. Ikusatsunagi is part of Arlock's magic. I mean, it doesn't really matter if it was Iksutsunagi or Arlock that did it. The point is that they can make clouds swirl just like Makarov and Jose can, and making the some clouds swirl isn't better than Acnologia blasting multiple islands with eternal flare.

Eternal flare was a boost to Acnologia's magic, which meant it would have been better than his regular attacks. Visually speaking, it's essentially a more impressive version of Ignia's setting Ermina on fire. There were multiple explosions in eternal flare that blew up islands with cities on them, so the overall bombardment is better than his roar at least. Each wave is at least city level, although honestly city level is a lowball and it's probably much higher. Either way, multiple waves over time was hyped to destroy the world. You can maybe argue that ripping Igneel in half is a more impressive feat, but honestly eternal

You’re right that isn’t the point lol.
As for clearing/making thunderstorms like the ones Natsu & Aldoron did, stuff like that would put them at island to country lvl.
Feat wise it’s better to use then EF, since individually each blast from EF probably wouldn’t yield a good result.

City lvl is quite the lowball since that would be fodder to most Tartaros arc characters.

Visually, the best feats in the series are Etherion & Irene’s Dues Sama. I think we can all agree on that.

 

[Axiomus]

any human and demon that uses curse and/or black magic. There is no implication that the darkness does work like PoF does which is friendship and bonds and love. yes they would, they are literally in the same area, even people in town can see the fight. This also does not change the fact that Mira was not fighting at full power with what little power she had left. She stated that is how she fights, even in GMG

Invel said that any human can possess darkness. You are changing it to any human or demon that uses curses or black magic. You're adding stuff that the manga never stated. Power of emotions was never stated to be just positive emotions either. That's also a thing you just kind of made up. All emotions are fair game when it comes to power of emotions, and darkness is just another way of saying negative emotions.

Anyways, I'm moving all discussions about darkness from the Mirajane vs Gray thread to this thread. If you want to reply to me on the Mirajane vs Gray thread, then respond in a manner that doesn't derail the topic. You can argue why Mirajane didn't use power of emotions, but I want to avoid filling up that thread with pages about darkness that doesn't even involve Mirajane or Gray.