@Jko - if you really don't think Macro has any upper limits, do you think Mirajane can control Igneel or Aldoron? How about FH Zeref or August? I'm actually interested how you think Macro works.
Aldoron has mental magic and Igneel's fire magic >>> DF Natsu's fire magic which can incinerate magic. August auto cancels magic and Zeref created Tartarus and already stated that none of their hax can kill him.
So she's an idiot? She could've used it at the beginning against Lucy and Skullion but she didn't.
You really brought Tartaros in this? Lmao Any top tier of FT solos that entire arc right now. Tartaros is irrelevant and outdated.
Seilah=/= Mira.
You don't have a single proper feat that shows Macro is still useful.
When comparing who's stronger than who we go off feats. For you to say she's stronger than Laxus and Erza based off a curse she's never used properly is like......wow.
Yeah, it's called nerfed. She didn't even go out of BSS and the S12s weren't using there hax effectively. Even the Rajinshuu were f-ing around and decided to play around and not use their hax effectively. When has hax ever been used effectively? Natsu got a busted hax and immediately got it stripped from him lol.
Mira >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seilah. Two, it was stated that Mira took over Seilah's macro when she called Elfman to her. Mira wouldn't have been able to call Elfman if it wasn't the same Macro.
Three where are you getting that Mira's Macro was stated to be weaker or that it's different when she literally took over Seilah and her powers????
Yeah, how many times has Erza been hax-ed out in the series? Laxus literally had get a bullshit loophole to Kiria's hax lmfao. Mira has no loophole and her Macro isn't PL based.
Yeah, it's called nerfed. She didn't even go out of BSS and the S12s weren't using there hax effectively. Even the Rajinshuu were f-ing around and decided to play around and not use their hax effectively. When has hax ever been used effectively? Natsu got a busted hax and immediately got it stripped from him lol.
Mira >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seilah. Two, it was stated that Mira took over Seilah's macro when she called Elfman to her. Mira wouldn't have been able to call Elfman if it wasn't the same Macro.
Three where are you getting that Mira's Macro was stated to be weaker or that it's different when she literally took over Seilah and her powers????
Yeah, how many times has Erza been hax-ed out in the series? Laxus literally had get a bullshit loophole to Kiria's hax lmfao. Mira has no loophole and her Macro isn't PL based.
Too much work. The debate happened back when these forums were brown.
How so? The etherious should all disappear along with Zeref. The sole exception being Natsu, who Lucy rewrote. In Mirajane's own words, she took over Seilah to prevent her from dying. Well, Zeref dying means that Seilah dies too. Mirajane had 3 fights now. Not once did she use Seilah or any of her etherious takeovers. She was even defeated, and still didn't use any of those takeovers.
It doesn't even matter. Brandish couldn't effect it because it was more powerful. END, being a demon, should have curse power. I don't know why you think he doesn't have either magic or curse power. It says far more powerful than any magic she has btw. For Neinhart, it said magic power. Brandish simply didn't realize just how much stronger Neinhart was until he started flexing his powers. Maybe Brandish can still effect people slightly stronger than her, but she can't effect anyone far stronger than her.
August doesn't have to lower his MP. He just has to not resist Brandish's attempts to heal him. We've seen stronger characters allow magic to work on them, only to resist it later. White Witch is a perfect example of this. She can use her White Out on Mercphobia when he lets her, but she can't just go up to the other god dragons and white them out.
Bcs the books aren't there souls. You think if the book disappears that means there souls are gome forever? Zeref said Natsu would died when he died, but he never stated his soul would get eradicated from existence. Mira collects the souls of Demons so I don't see how the books being destroy would eradicate the collection of Tartarus' souls Mira got. And Seilah is dead since she has no body either and just a soul inside Mira. Also Mira never went out of BSS. She still has Sitri which is stronger than BSS and never went that form either so we auto assume she lost Sitri as well?
Yeah, it say any magic. It says nothing about his magical power being higher than hers is the reason he negated it. It specifically mentions the enchantment and Irene making him stronger than she imagined, but nothing saying it was MP. She already felt his MP and knew he had more MP than her yet was still surprised by it which means it had nothing to do with higher MP. Bcs END never trained to use Curse Power lol. Mashima would have just came out and said he had curse power and that was the reason he negated ts, but didn't. He specifically mentioned that it was END's power to do so therefore it had to with ability rather than power. If END's power was next level then it would have been felt by Zeref, August, Irene, and Acno yet none of them knew he was there lol.
If she can't affect higher MP at all then she wouldn't be able affect August at all since MP is too high. No one has ever allowed hax to work on them. That's like saying Lucy can copy Natsu because he allowed her too lol. Lucy can't copy Natsu if he allowed her to or not since his MP is too high for her to do so. The mechanic would still be in place with or without consent.
Selene stopped WW from using her powers against Aldoron. Aldoron had protection against her. If she tried to fight Ignia he would shred her before she even took a step, plus his magic incinerated magic. Selene already showed she can f over the WW at anytime she wanted to lol.
What do you want to call it then? Bcs being restricted to you weakest soul an entire arc is a heavy nerf. That's like Goku only going SSJ1 against Hit or Jiren and they stalemate each other and he doesn't just decide to power up to SSJ2 and up to end the fight. That's the story nerfing him.
Wanna show me feats of them resisting Macro? Wanna show me feats of Macro ever stated to be based on PL? I already showed feats of Seilah at 1% of her power being able to Macro a full healthy Erza and Minerva like it was nothing which makes your PL based argument moot. It's the sequel yet they are still getting hax-ed out and not stopping hax via power, but bs loopholes lol.
What do you want to call it then? Bcs being restricted to you weakest soul an entire arc is a heavy nerf. That's like Goku only going SSJ1 against Hit or Jiren and they stalemate each other and he doesn't just decide to power up to SSJ2 and up to end the fight. That's the story nerfing him.
Wanna show me feats of them resisting Macro? Wanna show me feats of Macro ever stated to be based on PL? I already showed feats of Seilah at 1% of her power being able to Macro a full healthy Erza and Minerva like it was nothing which makes your PL based argument moot.
During Tartaros. Why do you keep bringing up outdated feats? Like it doesn't make sense. Like at all. Macro didn't work on some of the foot soldiers during Alvarez. They resisted it.
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Oh, look at what happened during Tartaros, obviously I can scale Tartaros to current timeline.
Stop going off topic. Proceeds to bring up DBZ. Right, so Mira hasn't used it properly since Tartaros. That's not nerf, it's just not working.
During Tartaros. Why do you keep bringing up outdated feats? Like it doesn't make sense. Like at all. Macro didn't work on some of the foot soldiers during Alvarez. They resisted it.
Okay man an analogy is going off topic. So what do you call being restricted by the author to your weakest form an entire arc? That is a nerf since you are not allowed to use it unless plot lets you. Just like every hax person in this manga. Hell Mest could have already busted this arc by completely mind wrecking FT like he did on Tenrou yet he doesn't do that and sits around 99% of the time being useless until plot lets him be useful.
Doesn't matter if it was in Tartarus or not as Erza gets f-ed over by Kyouka's hax in Alvarez lol. Not only that but I already showed PL doesn't matter since 1% Seilah Macro-ed a full healthy Erza. Bcs the guy with Weakness magic and the ability to cancel magic wasn't there and shown to analyze her powers.
She controlled over thirty people to do so which not even Seilah shown that amount people she can affect with it. Are you really trying to say those fodder are Tartarus Erza level as well???? When Meredy was smacking them and Meredy barely beat Zancrow? Lol.
Now show me some feats of them resisting Macro with power levels? We aren't going to act like Erza didn't get hax-ed out by Kiria and Laxus didn't just bs loophole his way out of Kiria's hax instead of just power through it like you guys always say they can. The author even admits otherwise and agrees hax bust PLs like his peers do.
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What does PL not affecting Macro have anything to with what part of the timeline it was in?
Bcs the books aren't there souls. You think if the book disappears that means there souls are gome forever? Zeref said Natsu would died when he died, but he never stated his soul would get eradicated from existence. Mira collects the souls of Demons so I don't see how the books being destroy would eradicate the collection of Tartarus' souls Mira got. And Seilah is dead since she has no body either and just a soul inside Mira. Also Mira never went out of BSS. She still has Sitri which is stronger than BSS and never went that form either so we auto assume she lost Sitri as well?
Yeah, it say any magic. It says nothing about his magical power being higher than hers is the reason he negated it. It specifically mentions the enchantment and Irene making him stronger than she imagined, but nothing saying it was MP. She already felt his MP and knew he had more MP than her yet was still surprised by it which means it had nothing to do with higher MP. Bcs END never trained to use Curse Power lol. Mashima would have just came out and said he had curse power and that was the reason he negated ts, but didn't. He specifically mentioned that it was END's power to do so therefore it had to with ability rather than power. If END's power was next level then it would have been felt by Zeref, August, Irene, and Acno yet none of them knew he was there lol.
If she can't affect higher MP at all then she wouldn't be able affect August at all since MP is too high. No one has ever allowed hax to work on them. That's like saying Lucy can copy Natsu because he allowed her too lol. Lucy can't copy Natsu if he allowed her to or not since his MP is too high for her to do so. The mechanic would still be in place with or without consent.
Selene stopped WW from using her powers against Aldoron. Aldoron had protection against her. If she tried to fight Ignia he would shred her before she even took a step, plus his magic incinerated magic. Selene already showed she can f over the WW at anytime she wanted to lol.
The books are the demons. Mard's book was inside his body. Only END had a book separate from the body, because Natsu had a human body. When Zeref dies, the etherious dies too. When you die, your souls go to the afterlife. Natsu didn't die because Lucy rewrote his book. I'm not assuming Mirajane lost Sitri, but the fact still remains that Mirajane never showed any etherious takeovers since Zeref's death.
I'm not dead set on arguing Mirajane having been nerf btw. I don't really care either way. You're the one who brought it up Mirjane being nerfed to BSS as the reason macro was a non-factor against Lucy, Gray, and Skullion. I'm just pointing out that we might as well see it to it's logical conclusion if you really want to make that claim. Either Mirajane has actually been nerfed, or she hasn't really been nerfed and this is just an excuse.
If Brandish is saying that END is far more powerful than any magic she has, then the message it's clear: It's more powerful than her. More importantly, she's using that as the explanation as to why she can't treat the tumor anymore. That tells us that something far more powerful than any magic she has is something she cannot treat. I don't see why it needs to get any more complicated than that.
Neinhart's enchantment was mostly to just give him more magic power to beat Erza over the head with. Maybe it came in the form of wind magic, but having wing magic in and of itself shouldn't provide a counter to mass manipulation. Again, Brandish associated his immunity to her magic with how strong he's gotten. What exactly makes you say Brandish had already sensed that Neinhart was more powerful than her? She didn't realize how powerful Neinhart really was until she tried to use her magic on him. Like I said, it's reasonable to assume that Brandish's magic can work on someone slightly stronger than her. But far stronger than her? Well, we already know it doesn't.
Exactly, White Witch can't just steal the power of a dragon god in a direct confrontation. She couldn't just white out Aldoron directly either. She knew she had to wait until he was weakened, because otherwise Aldoron would shred her just like Ignia would. However, when a God Dragon allows her to use her powers on him, it works.
The books are the demons. Mard's book was inside his body. Only END had a book separate from the body, because Natsu had a human body. When Zeref dies, the etherious dies too. When you die, your souls go to the afterlife. Natsu didn't die because Lucy rewrote his book. I'm not assuming Mirajane lost Sitri, but the fact still remains that Mirajane never showed any etherious takeovers since Zeref's death.
I'm not dead set on arguing Mirajane having been nerf btw. I don't really care either way. You're the one who brought it up Mirjane being nerfed to BSS as the reason macro was a non-factor against Lucy, Gray, and Skullion. I'm just pointing out that we might as well see it to it's logical conclusion if you really want to make that claim. Either Mirajane has actually been nerfed, or she hasn't really been nerfed and this is just an excuse.
If Brandish is saying that END is far more powerful than any magic she has, then the message it's clear: It's more powerful than her. More importantly, she's using that as the explanation as to why she can't treat the tumor anymore. That tells us that something far more powerful than any magic she has is something she cannot treat. I don't see why it needs to get any more complicated than that.
Neinhart's enchantment was mostly to just give him more magic power to beat Erza over the head with. Maybe it came in the form of wind magic, but having wing magic in and of itself shouldn't provide a counter to mass manipulation. Again, Brandish associated his immunity to her magic with how strong he's gotten. What exactly makes you say Brandish had already sensed that Neinhart was more powerful than her? She didn't realize how powerful Neinhart really was until she tried to use her magic on him. Like I said, it's reasonable to assume that Brandish's magic can work on someone slightly stronger than her. But far stronger than her? Well, we already know it doesn't.
Exactly, White Witch can't just steal the power of a dragon god in a direct confrontation. She couldn't just white out Aldoron directly either. She knew she had to wait until he was weakened, because otherwise Aldoron would shred her just like Ignia would. However, when a God Dragon allows her to use her powers on him, it works.
Yes. Superman straight up gets mind control by fodder on a daily basis. Sorry to burst your bubble but the most OP people in fiction are hax based. I see no valid reason to say she can't macro Erza.
Those fodder are irrelevant, and are leagues stronger than anyone in the FT verse anyway. You don't just get to apply other verses rules into FT. To think someone like Mira, who's probably only like city level, can even do shit to Superman is hilarious.
Do you genuinely have any idea how any of this works?
I literally just answered this. Tartaros were portrayed as stronger than anyone up to that point minus a few people. Your comparison is bad, like really bad. "Lel an exhausted Seilah can macro an exhausted Erza and Minerva so that means current Mira can macro anyone even though the ability has 0 feats."
And I don't care what Hiro said. If he said Mira was stronger than Goku, you'd believe it despite feats and portrayals being completely contradictory to what he said?
Are you conveniently forgetting that they just had a full fight before that happened just for the sake of your argument? She also got jumped by Elfman. You act like Mira just walked up to Seilah and one-shotted her in BSS initally and ended everything. Dunno which manga you're reading but iight bro.
Macro has never been resisted by PL in the manga and clearly works on people with higher PL as shown with Seilah hax-ing out Erza despite the former being oneshotted by an exhausted BSS Mira.
If a superior hax like Command T, with better feats doesn't work on people stronger than the user, then why the hell would we not apply that rule to a weaker, featless hax like Macro? It's certainly reasonable, and there's no other way to properly judge the ability.
Those fodder are irrelevant, and are leagues stronger than anyone in the FT verse anyway. You don't just get to apply other verses rules into FT. To think someone like Mira, who's probably only like city level, can even do shit to Superman is hilarious.
Nobody in FT is touching comics Supes lol. The guy can literally take a bath in the sun for a million years, and then kick the moon into our planet. DCEU Supes is a maybe, but DCEU has real sub-relativistic movement speed. FT lightspeed is mostly a bunch of wank.
Those fodder are irrelevant, and are leagues stronger than anyone in the FT verse anyway. You don't just get to apply other verses rules into FT. To think someone like Mira, who's probably only like city level, can even do shit to Superman is hilarious.
Do you genuinely have any idea how any of this works?
I literally just answered this. Tartaros were portrayed as stronger than anyone up to that point minus a few people. Your comparison is bad, like really bad. "Lel an exhausted Seilah can macro an exhausted Erza and Minerva so that means current Mira can macro anyone even though the ability has 0 feats."
And I don't care what Hiro said. If he said Mira was stronger than Goku, you'd believe it despite feats and portrayals being completely contradictory to what he said?
Yeah sorry I don't live in fantasy land my guy.
Are you conveniently forgetting that they just had a full fight before that happened just for the sake of your argument? She also got jumped by Elfman. You act like Mira just walked up to Seilah and one-shotted her in BSS initally and ended everything. Dunno which manga you're reading but iight bro.
Just because she fought Kyouka moments later doesn't mean she wasn't at least a bit exhausted. Erza's known for her endurance.
Yes..... it cancelled out because of her takeover, not because of her PL.
Already debunked.
If a superior hax like Command T, with better feats doesn't work on people stronger than the user, then why the hell would we not apply that rule to a weaker, featless hax like Macro? It's certainly reasonable, and there's no other way to properly judge the ability.
Dude your first paragraph doesn't even make sense. Those fodder with hax that trolled Supes is only human tier in stats. Not even peak human at that lol. Maybe read up on Supes comics?
You are saying Seilah at 1% is stronger than Erza? How? Erza was never exhausted so dunno why you keep saying that....
What are you even stating? Seilah was oneshottable after her fight with Mira. That same Seilah easily trolled a healthy Erza and Minerva with Macro. Dunno what you are even reading when you read my post tbh.
So I am supposed to believe a fan over the author, the God of his own verse?
So where are you getting a PL arguments
You didn't debunk anything. You made claims and than got it debunked lol. You then say I should trust your words over Mashima's like it's your story lol.
Command T was never stated to be null by PL and weaker hax than both have easily trumped lmfao. There is literally only one magic in the verse that is actually stated to be affected by PL which is Gemini's copy magic. No other magic has ever been affected by PL and the author agrees hax > PL.
The books are the demons. Mard's book was inside his body. Only END had a book separate from the body, because Natsu had a human body. When Zeref dies, the etherious dies too. When you die, your souls go to the afterlife. Natsu didn't die because Lucy rewrote his book. I'm not assuming Mirajane lost Sitri, but the fact still remains that Mirajane never showed any etherious takeovers since Zeref's death.
I'm not dead set on arguing Mirajane having been nerf btw. I don't really care either way. You're the one who brought it up Mirjane being nerfed to BSS as the reason macro was a non-factor against Lucy, Gray, and Skullion. I'm just pointing out that we might as well see it to it's logical conclusion if you really want to make that claim. Either Mirajane has actually been nerfed, or she hasn't really been nerfed and this is just an excuse.
If Brandish is saying that END is far more powerful than any magic she has, then the message it's clear: It's more powerful than her. More importantly, she's using that as the explanation as to why she can't treat the tumor anymore. That tells us that something far more powerful than any magic she has is something she cannot treat. I don't see why it needs to get any more complicated than that.
Neinhart's enchantment was mostly to just give him more magic power to beat Erza over the head with. Maybe it came in the form of wind magic, but having wing magic in and of itself shouldn't provide a counter to mass manipulation. Again, Brandish associated his immunity to her magic with how strong he's gotten. What exactly makes you say Brandish had already sensed that Neinhart was more powerful than her? She didn't realize how powerful Neinhart really was until she tried to use her magic on him. Like I said, it's reasonable to assume that Brandish's magic can work on someone slightly stronger than her. But far stronger than her? Well, we already know it doesn't.
Exactly, White Witch can't just steal the power of a dragon god in a direct confrontation. She couldn't just white out Aldoron directly either. She knew she had to wait until he was weakened, because otherwise Aldoron would shred her just like Ignia would. However, when a God Dragon allows her to use her powers on him, it works.
Inside his body not his soul. Exactly so how do the soul die when Mira is holding them? She doesn't takeover bodies, but souls.
She's been nerfed writing wise as she hasn't used her abilities effectively. It's character induced stupidity.
END was hypothesized by the character to have more power than any magic in her arsenal. Nothing stating his magical power was higher than her own or that it was because he was above her magical power. He was above the magic itself. The author states it's specifically that it was his ability to do so and not MP or CP.
She literally knew how powerful Neinheart's magical power as she read it and knew Irene powered it up. She wouldn't be surprised her magic didn't work on someone with higher magic than her own if that was the case. She associated his immunity to the enchantment Irene gave him and asked how powerful did Irene make him. You are telling me this about power but Natsu bust his face in and Brandish KOes Natsu two second later with Command T lol. If it was about his strength then she shouldn't have been able to affect Natsu with MM. We do as it worked on August lol. It has nothing to with far stronger MP as Neinheart's MP was already read and she knew how powerful it was. Like I said it would have been stated to magical power if it was MP. Mashima doesn't beat around the bush when it's MP that affects something.
Merc never allowed her to use her power on him lol. Like I said that's like Natsu allowing Lucy to use Gemini to copy him. It won't work since his MP is higher than hers.
I'm just saying, without POF playing a part this match should go extreme diff in anyone's favor because Erza and Mira are portrayed as on the same level even though Mira is left out a lot while Erza is given a lot (including illogical feats). The biggest indicator of this was when the both fought Azuma and later when Gildarts and Laxus were away/incapacitated and those 2 were called the most reliable duo and performed similarly against Tartaros soldiers before Etherious Seilah and Etherious Kyoka overwhelmed them both.
Even now Erza struggled and had help from swords with Gray and Natsu's magic and still couldn't beat Laxus when he was arguably not fresh, while Mirajane in her weakest form while heavily injured was able to drive Gray to extreme diff after being hyped as beyond Gray and Gajeel. The same Gray who fans, up till recently (I wonder why), thought would beat Erza or push her to extreme diff. So IMO unless there is a tier under Erza but above Gray for Mira to fit, odds are Mirajane is still on Erza's level as she was portrayed to be arcs ago. And given that Nakagami works on magic and not curses I'd say it would still be an interesting fight and if Mashima had to write it, would push it to extreme diff.
I don't get why portrayal, hype and statements are ignored and called inconsistent while some feats, which are also inconsistent, are all that matters. Based on feats none of FT should be struggling against the DE given what happened with the spriggan yet here we are.
Inside his body not his soul. Exactly so how do the soul die when Mira is holding them? She doesn't takeover bodies, but souls.
She's been nerfed writing wise as she hasn't used her abilities effectively. It's character induced stupidity.
END was hypothesized by the character to have more power than any magic in her arsenal. Nothing stating his magical power was higher than her own or that it was because he was above her magical power. He was above the magic itself. The author states it's specifically that it was his ability to do so and not MP or CP.
She literally knew how powerful Neinheart's magical power as she read it and knew Irene powered it up. She wouldn't be surprised her magic didn't work on someone with higher magic than her own if that was the case. She associated his immunity to the enchantment Irene gave him and asked how powerful did Irene make him. You are telling me this about power but Natsu bust his face in and Brandish KOes Natsu two second later with Command T lol. If it was about his strength then she shouldn't have been able to affect Natsu with MM. We do as it worked on August lol. It has nothing to with far stronger MP as Neinheart's MP was already read and she knew how powerful it was. Like I said it would have been stated to magical power if it was MP. Mashima doesn't beat around the bush when it's MP that affects something.
Merc never allowed her to use her power on him lol. Like I said that's like Natsu allowing Lucy to use Gemini to copy him. It won't work since his MP is higher than hers.
Look either Mirajane has actually been nerfed to BSS, in which case we might as well give an actual explanation for why. Etherious disappearing with Zeref happens to fit the bill. Or Mirajane hasn't been nerfed at all, and this is just an excuse to avoid the fact that macro wasn't a factor in any of Mirajane's most recent fights. Either way, somebody ought to explain why macro is beating current Erza when it's not even a factor against opponents that are far weaker.
The mental gymnastics going on here is too much. Brandish used "END being far more powerful than any magic she has" as the explanation for why she can not longer treat the tumor. That means her magic can't effect something that is too powerful. She also associated Neinhart's strength with him being immune to her magic. Think about it: Irene enchanted Neinhart with some really strong wind magic so that he could fight Erza. Why would that give Neinhart a specific immunity to Brandish's magic, especially considering Brandish was on their side?
Mercphobia did allow White Witch to take his powers, hoping that it would stop the flooding. Gemini's ability to transform is limited by how strong Gemini is, which is limited by how strong Lucy is. This has nothing to do with whether or not Natsu resists the magic from working on him. This has to do with the limitations of what Gemini can transform themselves into. Natsu can however allow Gemini to transform him into a fish. Does that mean Lucy can just solo the entire guild by having Gemini transform everyone into fish?
I'm just saying, without POF playing a part this match should go extreme diff in anyone's favor because Erza and Mira are portrayed as on the same level even though Mira is left out a lot while Erza is given a lot (including illogical feats). The biggest indicator of this was when the both fought Azuma and later when Gildarts and Laxus were away/incapacitated and those 2 were called the most reliable duo and performed similarly against Tartaros soldiers before Etherious Seilah and Etherious Kyoka overwhelmed them both.
Even now Erza struggled and had help from swords with Gray and Natsu's magic and still couldn't beat Laxus when he was arguably not fresh, while Mirajane in her weakest form while heavily injured was able to drive Gray to extreme diff after being hyped as beyond Gray and Gajeel. The same Gray who fans, up till recently (I wonder why), thought would beat Erza or push her to extreme diff. So IMO unless there is a tier under Erza but above Gray for Mira to fit, odds are Mirajane is still on Erza's level as she was portrayed to be arcs ago. And given that Nakagami works on magic and not curses I'd say it would still be an interesting fight and if Mashima had to write it, would push it to extreme diff.
Erza and Mirajane haven't been portrayed to be on the same level since....well since before the beginning of the series when Mirajane quit keeping up with Erza after Lisanna's death. Erza has had better feats than Mirajane in every single arc of the series. Tenrou was when it first started getting apparent, with Erza beating the opponent that Mirajane admits she cannot beat. By the time Alvarez Arc pulled around, there's no contest.
Gray was never close to Erza's level. Most people agree that Laxus would mid diff Gray, and Erza has proven herself on equal standing with Laxus. Like I said, pick any point during Erza's fight with Laxus, and sub out Laxus for Gray. At no point would Gray stand a realistic chance of beating Erza. Right up until the end, Erza was using an attack that matched Laxus' raiko red lightning (same attack that killed Wall). Also, extreme diff is an exaggeration for the difficulty Mira gave to Gray. Gray looks like he's still got magic left and can still fight. High diff is more appropriate.
Takeover is a magic btw. Technically Erza should be able to dispell Mirajane from her takeover altogether. But like I said, infinite nakagami isn't necessary. Mirajane lost to a combination of the damage she accumulated from Skullion and Gray. Erza hits harder than both, and has the slayer advantage that Gray brings to the table. Other than "macro oneshots", which hasn't ever proven to be true against any significant opponent, there's not much going for Mirajane.
Dude your first paragraph doesn't even make sense. Those fodder with hax that trolled Supes is only human tier in stats. Not even peak human at that lol. Maybe read up on Supes comics?
I don't even know how much of this I should even believe, because so far you don't seem credible at all. I don't know if the user actually had rules to their hax or not and if they had prep. Either way, if the guy could control Supes, who's leagues above anything in FT, then he could easily control anything in FT. So I mean the point still stands.
Mira can't touch Supes. It's extremely delusional to think so.
Seilah wasn't at "1%". I don't need your headcanon terms. I don't know why YOU keep saying that. Maybe it's to reinforce your bad points, which you seem to do a lot.
Saying someone is at "1%" is more like them being on the ground unable to fight, essentially near death.
Not this:
Apparently this is Seilah at 1%. Hmm, yes very good observation sir.
Seriously, where on planet Earth do you interpret that as a 1% Seilah?
Looks like she has enough energy/MP to cast Macro on a tired Erza to me.
I mean she just had a bout with Kyouka and also a battle with Neo Minerva. She's literally been fighting ever since FT got on the cube, and even before that. But yeah you're right she's not at least semi-exhausted and we should conveniently ignore this because we gotta make your points look good.
What are you even stating? Seilah was oneshottable after her fight with Mira. That same Seilah easily trolled a healthy Erza and Minerva with Macro. Dunno what you are even reading when you read my post tbh.
Bro do you have selective reading? I just told you last post she took a hit from Elfman. While that isn't immediately impressive, she took the attack off-guard, which usually makes impact more devastating. AFTER that, BSS knocked her out again. You need to get your facts straight first instead of conveniently forgetting shit to to make your argument look better, which isn't saying much anyway.
Gogeta was never canon up until the latest DB movie, and his power got retconned to where he's now equal to his other fusion variant. Now that's something people can believe and take at face value, because it makes sense.
Mira being able to touch Supes doesn't make sense.
Are you having trouble keeping up here? You just stated it yourself. The hax didn't work because her takeover negated Seilah's hax. Get it? Her PL didn't matter in that situation because of takeover. If it wasn't for her takeover, the hax would've worked. Why? Because Seilah was portrayed stronger.
Also meaning macro wouldn't do shit to Erza because Mira isn't anywhere near Erza's ballpark.
Got it? Great, glad we got that established. Next.
You didn't debunk anything. You made claims and than got it debunked lol. You then say I should trust your words over Mashima's like it's your story lol.
Command T was never stated to be null by PL and weaker hax than both have easily trumped lmfao. There is literally only one magic in the verse that is actually stated to be affected by PL which is Gemini's copy magic. No other magic has ever been affected by PL and the author agrees hax > PL.
Brandish literally states herself she can't use her magic on people stronger than her, and that's further proven by her not being able to affect Neinhart who's been enhanced out of Brandish's league. There's no other way to twist what she said. It's simple reading comprehension. You're just grasping at straws because your love for Mira is like multiverse level.
Look either Mirajane has actually been nerfed to BSS, in which case we might as well give an actual explanation for why. Etherious disappearing with Zeref happens to fit the bill. Or Mirajane hasn't been nerfed at all, and this is just an excuse to avoid the fact that macro wasn't a factor in any of Mirajane's most recent fights. Either way, somebody ought to explain why macro is beating current Erza when it's not even a factor against opponents that are far weaker.
The mental gymnastics going on here is too much. Brandish used "END being far more powerful than any magic she has" as the explanation for why she can not longer treat the tumor. That means her magic can't effect something that is too powerful. She also associated Neinhart's strength with him being immune to her magic. Think about it: Irene enchanted Neinhart with some really strong wind magic so that he could fight Erza. Why would that give Neinhart a specific immunity to Brandish's magic, especially considering Brandish was on their side?
Mercphobia did allow White Witch to take his powers, hoping that it would stop the flooding. Gemini's ability to transform is limited by how strong Gemini is, which is limited by how strong Lucy is. This has nothing to do with whether or not Natsu resists the magic from working on him. This has to do with the limitations of what Gemini can transform themselves into. Natsu can however allow Gemini to transform him into a fish. Does that mean Lucy can just solo the entire guild by having Gemini transform everyone into fish?
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Erza and Mirajane haven't been portrayed to be on the same level since....well since before the beginning of the series when Mirajane quit keeping up with Erza after Lisanna's death. Erza has had better feats than Mirajane in every single arc of the series. Tenrou was when it first started getting apparent, with Erza beating the opponent that Mirajane admits she cannot beat. By the time Alvarez Arc pulled around, there's no contest.
Gray was never close to Erza's level. Most people agree that Laxus would mid diff Gray, and Erza has proven herself on equal standing with Laxus. Like I said, pick any point during Erza's fight with Laxus, and sub out Laxus for Gray. At no point would Gray stand a realistic chance of beating Erza. Right up until the end, Erza was using an attack that matched Laxus' raiko red lightning (same attack that killed Wall). Also, extreme diff is an exaggeration for the difficulty Mira gave to Gray. Gray looks like he's still got magic left and can still fight. High diff is more appropriate.
Takeover is a magic btw. Technically Erza should be able to dispell Mirajane from her takeover altogether. But like I said, infinite nakagami isn't necessary. Mirajane lost to a combination of the damage she accumulated from Skullion and Gray. Erza hits harder than both, and has the slayer advantage that Gray brings to the table. Other than "macro oneshots", which hasn't ever proven to be true against any significant opponent, there's not much going for Mirajane.
She only used it once lol. She's been nerfed due to CIS. We know this bcs she hasn't gone out of BSS despite being in a stalemate. You guys need concrete evidence to support she has been nerfed from her demons however
Okay since we are going with mental gymnastic let's just simplify this. 1 statement saying Neinheart's magical power is the reason MM couldn't work and 1 statement of END being stated by the author that it was his curse power or magical power that broke though it. Because nothing you have posted as stated such.
A vague statement of power being greater than the magic itself as that has nothing to with PL. It means if August tried to mass manipulate END with Command T it wouldn't work since END is above the magic itself. That has nothing to magical power, curse power or power levels in general. Especially when that statement gets clarified by the author's words and puts context to what happens since the characters themselves are baffled and don't know how END is negating hax. Irene gave him buffs and one of those buffs negated Brandish hax. Enchantment is broke so dunno why it's impossible to believe that an enchantment or the side affect of one could negate Brandish'd mass manipulation. If it was strength then she would no diff the guy that no diff the dude that stopped her magic in the first place.
When was this stated? IIRC it was Carmille's fault and she thought it would cure Merc, but Merc didn't have a hand in giving the WW his power. She just took it and left. Exactly so if the limitation for MM is PL then August wouldn't be affected by it all. He didn't even have the power undo it when she did it as well. Natsu need Lucy to transform him back... so it was nothing to do with him allowing her to transform him otherwise he would have just broken out of the spell by resisting it.
She only used it once lol. She's been nerfed due to CIS. We know this bcs she hasn't gone out of BSS despite being in a stalemate. You guys need concrete evidence to support she has been nerfed from her demons however
Okay since we are going with mental gymnastic let's just simplify this. 1 statement saying Neinheart's magical power is the reason MM couldn't work and 1 statement of END being stated by the author that it was his curse power or magical power that broke though it. Because nothing you have posted as stated such.
A vague statement of power being greater than the magic itself as that has nothing to with PL. It means if August tried to mass manipulate END with Command T it wouldn't work since END is above the magic itself. That has nothing to magical power, curse power or power levels in general. Especially when that statement gets clarified by the author's words and puts context to what happens since the characters themselves are baffled and don't know how END is negating hax. Irene gave him buffs and one of those buffs negated Brandish hax. Enchantment is broke so dunno why it's impossible to believe that an enchantment or the side affect of one could negate Brandish'd mass manipulation. If it was strength then she would no diff the guy that no diff the dude that stopped her magic in the first place.
When was this stated? IIRC it was Carmille's fault and she thought it would cure Merc, but Merc didn't have a hand in giving the WW his power. She just took it and left. Exactly so if the limitation for MM is PL then August wouldn't be affected by it all. He didn't even have the power undo it when she did it as well. Natsu need Lucy to transform him back... so it was nothing to do with him allowing her to transform him otherwise he would have just broken out of the spell by resisting it.
Still not seeing any explanation for how macro is beating Erza when it wasn't even a factor in any of her recent fights.
Brandish saying that END's tumor was "more powerful than any magic she has" is not a statement about power levels? You do realize that magic gets stronger the more magical power you put into it right? August's usage of mass manipulation should be more powerful than Brandish's. Even if we say the magic itself is capped at how powerful it can be, it actually doesn't matter. It still proves that command T has a limit on the stuff it can manipulate based on how powerful the target is.
As far as we can tell, Irene just gave Neinhart some powerful wind magic. There's no reason why this would negate Brandish's magic, and merely having an enchantment shouldn't offer immunity to random types of magic. All types of dragon slaying magic are enchantments. Doesn't mean every dragon slayer is immune to random types of magic. Again, what purpose would it serve for Irene to make Neinhart immune to mass manipulation if she's sending him after Erza? Actually, please tell me what that enchantment even is. Which enchantment that we've seen from Irene's arsenal would make Neinhart immune to mass manipulation?
If Touka could steal power from a God Dragon by force, she would have done it to Aldoron by now. There was nothing stopping her this entire arc, and in fact Aldoron was sealed by the orbs. White Witch still went through the trouble of weakening him before she made her move out of caution. There would have been no need to even steal Aldoron's power to fight Ignia with, WW could just forcibly steal Ignia's power.
Again, August allowed mass manipulation to work on him because it was to his benefit. Gemini transforming into other people has absolutely nothing to do with whether the target allows them to, because the transformation magic isn't acting on the target's body. Gemini is transforming themselves. Lucy only transformed Natsu and Happy back. Gray and Erza were way out of range, and transformed back by themselves. Even if Lucy had the range to transform Erza and Gray from afar, she wouldn't because it would blow their cover. Again, I ask you....do you believe Lucy can forcibly transform anyone she pleases into fish with Gemini?
If she used her hax don't see why not. She literally has the same problem as the S12s lol.
I mean it's not like you have a feat or statement that says Macro is PL based and I don't have numerous showings from the manga that hax > PL and the author's own words saying hax bust PLs....
You’re not serious...This is desperation posting. Don’t ever wonder why I say Mira is the most wanked character on this sub, you really tried to bring Macro into 2020. The year already is ass without this.
Mira is literally closest to the other S class wizards aside from Natsu.
Erza beating Skullion is debatable and saying she can beat Gray afterwards seem like an exaggeration. Don’t underestimate them both. Erza is always talking about how formidable Kyria is and Skullion>>Kyria and then there’s Gray. Hell even if Erza could beat both of them she’d be all knocked up afterwards, it’s not like she’d be fine at all.
The fact Gray still had high difficulty with Mira after she fought Skullion who is at least mid tier Spriggan speaks volumes. Also wanted to note Erza fell way before Mira did this arc and Mira fought two Spriggan level opponents back to back but carry on selling her short like she’s on par with Evergreen.
Mira is literally closest to the other S class wizards aside from Natsu.
Erza beating Skullion is debatable and saying she can beat Gray afterwards seem like an exaggeration. Don’t underestimate them both. Erza is always talking about how formidable Kyria is and Skullion>>Kyria and then there’s Gray. Hell even if Erza could beat both of them she’d be all knocked up afterwards, it’s not like she’d be fine at all.
The fact Gray still had high difficulty with Mira after she fought Skullion who is at least mid tier Spriggan speaks volumes. Also wanted to note Erza fell way before Mira did this arc and Mira fought two Spriggan level opponents back to back but carry on selling her short like she’s on par with Evergreen.
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