Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

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Shinuki no Reborn

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MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #51 - VOTING!​

The poll for issue #51 is now open, vote for your favorite chapters of the week clicking HERE!

Alongside the release of Sakamoto Days, the extra series this week are:

-Dragon Ball Super 66
-Boruto: Naruto Next Generations 52
-Ghost Reaper Girl 10


Good Votes!
 
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Halloween

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Moderator Notice:
Henceforth, I will be deleting posts that complain about Weekly Shonen Jump having too many/not enough gag/battle/exorcism/sports/etc series.

These posts are not insightful, and do not meaningfully contribute to this thread. Also, this decision is not up for discussion, so posts discussing this decision will also be deleted.~ Halloween
 
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Ryuusei

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呪 僕 O マ ブ S C D 破 C B 夜 C 僕 あ 灼 ぼ チ 高 ア 森 A 仄 ぼ 次号カラー ヒロアカ アンデラ 夜桜 約ネバ 道産子 GIGA 岸本先生が描くコラボポスター 爆豪クリアファイル
Jujutsu Kaisen (Cover & LCP)
My Hero Academia
One Piece
Mashle
Black Clover
Sakamoto Days (CP)
Dr. Stone
Magu-chan: God of Destruction (CP)
Build King
Mission: Yozakura Family
Me & Roboco
Ayakashi Triangle (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai
We Never Learn
Chainsaw Man
Koukousei Kazoku
Undead Unluck
Moriking
Agravity Boys
Honomieru Shounen
Bokura no Ketsumei

Issue #1
Cover & LCP: My Hero Academia
CP: Undead Unluck, Mission: Yozakura Family, The Promised Neverland, Dosanko Gyaru wa Namaramenkoi

GIGA Preview
Collab poster by Kishimoto
Bakugou clear file
 
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Krono

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Act Age is great but it's still not a genre that many people like. Everything else looks mediocre (in terms of Future Sales, not quality), with the exception of maybe Mashle and UU, but gag manga can only go so far. This last batch don't look that great either.

What do you guys think?
I would say don't underestimate gag manga. Kochikame was a comedy series, and a key element of Gintama was comedy. Both were huge. I suspect at least a few of the newer series are hoping to fill the Gintama niche.

In any case, only time will tell for a lot of this. You might be pessimistic about a series now, but if it ultimately goes on to great success, the problems of the start will be looked back upon as mere growing pains.
 
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TyVip

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@pamuchi too.

I was just being funny haha trying to downplay KnY's success which of course it deserves (I think any mangaka that struggles to achieve a serialization would love for this kind of success, so congrats to Gotoge), but yeah I mean its explosion of popularity was just people getting into the bandwagon of the hot new property, it also happened with One Piece and probably any other property that got an explosion of popularity..

Also.. I guess my humor doesn't translate well into written form lol I was kinda being sarcastic or ironic, although I do believe NPC mentality is what got KnY to the boost it has right now, for OP too of course but not in a "I sold 20 times what I sold last year breaking every damn record imaginable" level.. Yeah I'm still kinda salty lol

@Rain Spectre haha I was just being funny, again seems like my humor doesn't really translate too well into written form.

But being serious though, I don't really see why my NPC comment would trigger some of you, maybe I should have included that this applies to every series, it's obvious that a pretty hefty chunk of any property follow it because of that.

@TyVip Yes it is, anything super popular obviously has a good chunk of NPC followers, I assume, One Piece included.

Also TyVip I'm very interested in your One Piece number sources please, not that I don't believe you, I just don't think I have ever heard/read those numbers pre-oricon, are they from the One Piece volumes, I guess?

Also to end this.. Yeah, the whole point of that post I made I guess is that records are made to be broken, I should probably not have put the NPC thing lol but I was just being funny, and you guys know me already I'd assume that I don't like how KnY beat OP lol. But I didn't want to trigger anyone or whatever, I'm gonna edit the post and put "/s" I guess or something.
Tokyo Tower Infos in 2014
 

pamuchi

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I'm pretty sure I was being ironic in my first sentence with the "-" lol.

Well, seems like Shoseki will come out very late.
 

perroloco

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You used "NPC", a meme commonly used by alt-right groups to associate people with "those who have no autonomous thought", along with a meme mocking Kimetsu's fanbase as "people who just purchase blindly".

I don't buy for a second you would say the same for One Piece's fandom.
First of all, it was never my intention to include politics into this, I didn't even know what exactly alt-right was before reading this (I have heard/read but never really checked about it) and now apparently this whole NPC thing came from 4chan which I haven't even visited since forever ago..
(I was very tempted to do it recently after getting 0 matches in Tinder and just having nothing to do... haha quarentine can be very boring lol)

But.. I mean sure I would say the same for OP fans, why not? Not to the same extent though, One Piece didn't get 90% of its readership in a year, I don't think less of that 90% or whatever.. They can live their lives however they want Idc.

I myself have been an NPC lots of times (Am I allowed to call myself an NPC without offending someone?) following trends and stuff, some of my favorite series (e.g. Mr.Robot, Breaking Bad) I watched them after friends recommended them to me and I highly enjoyed them.

I'm not claiming One Piece fans (or me) are some mythical creatures, we all fall to the illusion of choice.

In a sense I owe my love of anime/manga to me being an NPC since a very young age because I pretty much watched whatever was on Mexican TV, which at the time was Dragon Ball, Ranma, Saint Seiya, etc.

So to change the topic a bit, do you guys think Jump will ever have the balls to take Luffy out of the center of the cover in double issues? I mean right now is undeniable that KnY is the hottest manga in its lineup (And thus the hottest manga currently period).. So do you think Tanjiro will get to be in the middle of a cover (Or have a bigger sized image than Luffy) or maybe they will put Luffy and Tanjiro alongside each other? (Like both of them are in the middle).
Or maybe Jump will just respect One Piece's seniority and not do that and still include Luffy in the center of double issues?
.
Just a random thought I had because IIRC the double issue is coming this week, right?

My prediction is that the day I so much dread never comes and Luffy stays in the middle/is the biggest in the cover. Maybe Luffy and Tanjiro get a same sized image or get to be together, but I doubt Jump will actually make Tanjiro the spotlight of the double issue cover.
 
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RafGL

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Shoseki 4/13-4/19

#6 ONE PIECE 96
#42 Black Clover 24
#43 Dr. STONE 15
#44 Dragon Ball Super 12
#66 Bokuben 16
#114 Kono Oto Tomare! 22
#157 Yuuna 21
#164 PLUS SLAM DUNK ILLUSTRATIONS
#229 Captain Tsubasa 13
#258 Darling in the Franxx 8
#388 Black Clover Quartet Knights 4
 
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Koni

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Shoseki 4/13-4/19

#6 ONE PIECE 96
#42 Black Clover 24
#43 Dr. STONE 15
#44 Dragon Ball Super 12
#66 Bokuben 16
#114 Kono Oto Tomare! 22
#164 PLUS SLAM DUNK ILLUSTRATIONS
#229 Captain Tsubasa 13
#258 Darling in the Franxx 8
#388 Black Clover Quartet Knights 4
You forgot Yuuna-san 21, which is #157 on the rankings.
 

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I posted this in the wrong thread. Hey guys I have been lurking behind the scenes for a long time now. Its amazing to find like minded people that are passionate about Shonen Jump. This is my opinion on Demon slayer and One Piece comparisons, and discussion that has been going on for a long time now.

One Piece is clearly selling more than what we see on Oricon. I would not trust its numbers too much since there is a big disparity in sales when you hear One Piece printing 3.3 million with each volume, and clearly Oricon does not cover all stores, but Oricon does give you an idea since it covers a lot of stores as well. 3.3 million prints is really impressive for a series that has been around for 23 years. One Piece had two peaks, while this is Demon Slayer first peak. One Piece first peak was before Oricon tracking, so we don't have a lot of data on that.

Its not fair to compare Demon Slayer to One Piece. The industry is different to back then compared to now, and One Piece has 96 volumes while DS has 20 volumes. Its much harder to sell 96 volumes to a new audience compared to 20 volumes. Don't get me wrong DS is making history, but some of you need to stop with these comparison. One Piece has the consistency, and has remained popular all these years, and still competing with newbies on magazines ranking after all these years. Yes its hard to create a new series and have a hit, but its also much harder to have this consistency, and remain popular after all these years. Some of you argue that one piece popularity had declined, but in my opinion it didn't it just stabilized, and isn't in its peak anymore. When you see One Piece new pop up stores, and permanent shops for one piece still opening in 2019, and 2020. Also, having major product deals with major brands it clearly tells us One Piece has more than the manga to gauge its popularity and impact on shonen jump overall. It's a cultural stable brand at this point, and has multi generational popularity just like Pokemon, Doraemon, Dragon ball just to name a few.

Demon Slayer is a phenomenon, and its impressive to see it selling more with each volume release especially in this day and age, but its too early to compare it to One Piece in my opinion just because its selling more on Oricon.
 
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Aiga

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If Oricon numbers are different from actual numbers then why did Shueisha use it as source that it is the best selling manga for every year ? or how else would they know that OP beat SnK in 2014 ? called Kodansha to ask them ?

I think you guys should know that Oricon isn't just a site but one of the biggest statistics companies. and a lot of companies use their data.
 

Rain Spectre

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I posted this in the wrong thread. Hey guys I have been lurking behind the scenes for a long time now. Its amazing to find like minded people that are passionate about Shonen Jump. This is my opinion one Demon slayer and One Piece comparison, and discussion that has been going on for a long time now.

One Piece is clearly selling more than what we see on Oricon. I would not trust its numbers too much since there is a big disparity in sales when you hear one piece printing 3.3 million with each volume, and clearly Oricon does not cover all stores, but Oricon does give you an idea since it covers a lot of stores as well. 3.3 million prints is really impressive for a series that has been around for 23 years. One Piece had two peaks, while this is demon slayer first peak. One Piece first peak was before Oricon tracking, so we don't have a lot of data on that.

Its not fair to compare demon slayer to One Piece. The industry is different to back then compared to now, and One Piece has 96 volumes while demon slayer has 20 volumes. Its much harder to sell 96 volumes to a new audience compared to 20 volumes. Don't get me wrong demon slayer is making history, but some of you need to stop with these comparison. One Piece has the consistency, and has remained popular all these years, and still competing with newbies on magazines ranking after all these years. Yes its hard to create a new series and have a hit, but its also much harder to have this consistency, and remain popular after all these years. Some of you argue that one piece popularity had declined, but in my opinion it didn't it just stabilized, and isn't in its peak anymore. When you see One Piece new pop up stores, and permanent shops for one piece still opening in 2019, and 2020. Also, having major product deals with major brands it clearly tells us One Piece has more than the manga to gauge its popularity and impact on shonen jump overall. It's a cultural stable brand at this point, and has multi generational popularity just like Pokemon, Doraemon, Dragon ball just to name a few.

Demon slayer is a phenomenon, and its impressive to see it selling more with each volume release especially in this day and age, but its too early to compare it to One Piece in my opinion just because its selling more on Oricon.
There's a major hole you're ignoring here...the vast majority of OP's readerbase is people who've been following it for years, even entire decades.



This chart is from February 2011, well into OP's big boom from Strong World. The majority of the readerbase isn't Jump youth audience, it's the people who'd been following it for years, decade(s) even. Cut ahead to 2020, and I'd imagine it's even more from the older readers.

Kimetsu, due to being only just four years old (and having less than half the volumes OP had with Strong World) has nothing like it in terms of advantage. Its boom is purely from new readers.
 

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There's a major hole you're ignoring here...the vast majority of OP's readerbase is people who've been following it for years, even entire decades.



This chart is from February 2011, well into OP's big boom from Strong World. The majority of the readerbase isn't Jump youth audience, it's the people who'd been following it for years, decade(s) even. Cut ahead to 2020, and I'd imagine it's even more from the older readers.

Kimetsu, due to being only just four years old (and having less than half the volumes OP had with Strong World) has nothing like it in terms of advantage. Its boom is purely from new readers.
I addressed this, and said One Piece has more than the manga to gauge popularity. its has become more than that. A stable brand just like Dragon Ball. I'd imagine a lot of people like one piece, but aren't actively following the newly manga releases just like Detective Conan for example. Maybe they like the games, or the anime. There are a lot of ways to be a fan of One Piece.

Edit:

The only reason I made a comparison about One Piece having 96 volumes while DS 20 volumes is because DS is less intimidating to the new reader compared to One Piece, and its not about who's selling more, or what kind of boom OP had.
 

yadayada

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One Piece is clearly selling more than what we see on Oricon. I would not trust its numbers too much since there is a big disparity in sales when you hear one piece printing 3.3 million with each volume, and clearly Oricon does not cover all stores, but Oricon does give you an idea since it covers a lot of stores as well.
Print numbers =/= sales and KnY keeps getting reprints every 2 weeks, those first print numbers aren't representative of anything for the series. Heck, KnY 19's first print number was so off that it had a reprint planned before it even launched, and it was planned for 2 days after release. There is an argument to be made that Shueisha would prefer keeping copies of OP in the warehouses until they eventually sell over the years than lower the print number because it'd be a bad look for their historical flagship title.

Besides, if we were to go for a "OP sells more than we see on oricon" argument, I could apply the same argument to literally every series, and when you actually compare Oricon numbers with known circulation totals of the series they do align fairly accurately (obviously not 100% spot on but still), so this point is pretty much moot.

One Piece had two peaks, while this is demon slayer first peak. One Piece first peak was before Oricon tracking, so we don't have a lot of data on that.
Some numbers were posted a couple of pages back. OP's absolute peak is in 2010-2011, it is known.

Its not fair to compare demon slayer to One Piece. The industry is different to back then compared to now, and One Piece has 96 volumes while demon slayer has 20 volumes. Its much harder to sell 96 volumes to a new audience compared to 20 volumes. Don't get me wrong demon slayer is making history, but some of you need to stop with these comparison. One Piece has the consistency, and has remained popular all these years, and still competing with newbies on magazines ranking after all these years. Yes its hard to create a new series and have a hit, but its also much harder to have this consistency, and remain popular after all these years.
Everyone here knows the circumstances are different. Literally no one is trying to take anything away from the consistency of OP which is nothing short of incredible.
Well, ok, maybe Rain is trying to, lol, but still.

Some of you argue that one piece popularity had declined, but in my opinion it didn't it just stabilized, and isn't in its peak anymore.
That's just arguing semantics, the meaning is exactly the same ?_?

Also, having major product deals with major brands it clearly tells us One Piece has more than the manga to gauge its popularity and impact on shonen jump overall.
The same could be said for KnY frankly considering that literally anything with the name on it sells like mad, it's not just the manga. The LNs are selling absurd numbers, the merch goes sold out, etc. Heck, jumputi trended #1 on twitter just due to announcing Rengoku as its next gacha character.

Demon slayer is a phenomenon, and its impressive to see it selling more with each volume release especially in this day and age, but its too early to compare it to One Piece in my opinion just because its selling more on Oricon.
To compare it to a series such as One Piece which has remained the consistent top seller for so many years? Yes. However at the end of the year KnY's peak sales might be higher at this point (and we should observe KnY's volume 18 to see if it can pass OP's 61 for that).

And there is a certainty that KnY is the most popular series of 2020. If you're going to go with the argument that "One piece is actually selling more it's just not being tracked on Oricon", I can guarantee you it doesn't hold up. At all.
 

Xzone

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So let's talk about Weekly Shonen jump franchises and videogame, what WSJ game(or formely in DB case) do you thing they will release in 2021-2022?. For me:

-Dragon Ball is releasing games almost yearly. Something like a Fusion 2 or a FighterZ depends of the developers ,but is a safe pick that they will release something.
-MHA just released One's Justice 2, the only option is that bandai give the ip to arcsystem or another company to do something that isn't an arena fighter
-Same with One piece.
-Kimetsu already have announce a videogame.
-Naruto last game was a 2018 port from a 2017 game, is weird.It was one of the Jump franchise with more games released last decades but now we don't heard nothing about it.
-World Trigger with the new anime I can see another game(this time in PS4), something like a third person shooter or a strategy game would be cool.
-Bleach unlike the other franchise isn't in Namco hands right now. Like World trigger I can see a releasing a new game , maybe a beat m up or a fighter(Maybe published by sega?)
-Jojo have an arcade last year , so maybe they will port it to console/PC?Or maybe another game when Stone ocean is adapted
-I can se another Fist of North Star devolopment by sega , it was a success if I remember well
 

101nemesis

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I posted this in the wrong thread. Hey guys I have been lurking behind the scenes for a long time now. Its amazing to find like minded people that are passionate about Shonen Jump. This is my opinion on Demon slayer and One Piece comparisons, and discussion that has been going on for a long time now.

One Piece is clearly selling more than what we see on Oricon. I would not trust its numbers too much since there is a big disparity in sales when you hear One Piece printing 3.3 million with each volume, and clearly Oricon does not cover all stores, but Oricon does give you an idea since it covers a lot of stores as well. 3.3 million prints is really impressive for a series that has been around for 23 years. One Piece had two peaks, while this is Demon Slayer first peak. One Piece first peak was before Oricon tracking, so we don't have a lot of data on that.

Its not fair to compare Demon Slayer to One Piece. The industry is different to back then compared to now, and One Piece has 96 volumes while DS has 20 volumes. Its much harder to sell 96 volumes to a new audience compared to 20 volumes. Don't get me wrong DS is making history, but some of you need to stop with these comparison. One Piece has the consistency, and has remained popular all these years, and still competing with newbies on magazines ranking after all these years. Yes its hard to create a new series and have a hit, but its also much harder to have this consistency, and remain popular after all these years. Some of you argue that one piece popularity had declined, but in my opinion it didn't it just stabilized, and isn't in its peak anymore. When you see One Piece new pop up stores, and permanent shops for one piece still opening in 2019, and 2020. Also, having major product deals with major brands it clearly tells us One Piece has more than the manga to gauge its popularity and impact on shonen jump overall. It's a cultural stable brand at this point, and has multi generational popularity just like Pokemon, Doraemon, Dragon ball just to name a few.

Demon Slayer is a phenomenon, and its impressive to see it selling more with each volume release especially in this day and age, but its too early to compare it to One Piece in my opinion just because its selling more on Oricon.
Welcome to the forum.
Very biased post for your first one.
 

Lugia__

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One Piece is the only series that has such disparity between sales numbers on Oricon, and print numbers. I don't see that with other series in Shonen Jump. Sheuisha is making more copies just because its not a good look on their flagship title. I'm not sure about that argument its kinda weak. Why would stores buy 3.3 million copies if the demand isn't there or do they keep all those unsold copies in the warehouse just in case?


I feel like the comparisons being made aren't between One Piece in 2020/lifetime vs Kimetsu in 2020, which is what you're talking about, but rather between One Piece 2011 vs Kimetsu 2020 (back when it only had around 50 or so volumes) - it's common sense that a series plateaus in sales after a peak, as you said is the case with One Piece. The comparison is being made because Kimetsu has rapidly approached, and by this week surpassed, the main peak of One Piece's sales in a single year, which is a valid comparison to make.
You talk about how the industry is different to back then compared to now, but if anything this just makes Kimetsu's peak look even more incredible given the overall decline in physical manga sales and a gradual shift/trend towards digital consumption.
As Rain Spectre said above, Kimetsu also didn't have the major following that One Piece already held when it hit its Marineford arc explosion. Having a major following/an already established franchise makes it far easier for word of mouth to do its magic and for sales to increase, for one.
This is interesting you totally brought up some important points that I haven't considered before. Demon slayer rise is totally impressive, and I would not take that away from it

In my original post I wasn't comparing the peaks of both series, I'm just talking about the overall comparisons that I've seen in this thread while I was lurking. I've seen some people argue that DS should be the center on SJ covers which is insane to me considering the impact that OP had on SJ. Even Kochikame was getting the respect it deserves when OP was at its peak. My original post is more a response to that rather anything else.


Welcome to the forum.
Very biased post for your first one.
Thank you.
 
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yadayada

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I'm not sure about that argument its kinda weak. Why would stores buy 3.3 million copies if the demand isn't there or do they keep all those unsold copies in the warehouse just in case?
They don't. They stay in the warehouse until they're needed.

Your argument that Oricon all of a sudden doesn't track OP properly is silly. OP #56 had a first print of 2.85 million, yet sold better than OP #91 for example, despite its first print being higher.
Did Oricon just stop tracking the stores where OP sells better? It doesn't make any sense. First print doesn't necessarily match sales numbers.

And if there was actually such a discrepancy between OP's sales and Oricon's tracking, then what about all the series whose sales are fairly close to the first print number (i.e. MHA)? Are they mysteriously selling more than gets printed? Come on now.
 

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One Piece is the only series that has such disparity between sales numbers on Oricon, and print numbers. I don't see that with other series in Shonen Jump. Sheuisha is making more copies just because its not a good look on their flagship title. I'm not sure about that argument its kinda weak. Why would stores buy 3.3 million copies if the demand isn't there or do they keep all those unsold copies in the warehouse just in case?
I don't exactly get what you mean by disparity. Also, just so you know. the 3.3M print number has been lowered already to 3.2M with Volume 95, so that may already give a hint to all of this. The demand keeps being the same, and the print is high because at some point it's met. OP is estimated to sell basically 2M after month and a half or two months, so having another 1M copies saved is useful in order to meet further demand. It's not weird, it's just a way to not have to reprint OP sooner than it needs to. Because if you reprint OP, you are gonna reprint another, and most likely, million. And if that amount is not met, then that's when you reach a problem. Those 3M copies will be met for sure at some point, we just don't know when, but they'll always go according to the expectations Shueisha has.
 

101nemesis

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One Piece is the only series that has such disparity between sales numbers on Oricon, and print numbers. I don't see that with other series in Shonen Jump. Sheuisha is making more copies just because its not a good look on their flagship title. I'm not sure about that argument its kinda weak. Why would stores buy 3.3 million copies if the demand isn't there or do they keep all those unsold copies in the warehouse just in case?
If you've followed this forum properly, you'd know there are two kinds of reprints
1. Urgent reprints that go directly to stores because of urgent demand.
2. Reprints that are sent to warehouse until required further.

By the year end, you'd see that OP volumes would've sold about 2.3 million each over many months meaning those extra prints came in handy when needed. Also means that any additional demand can be met by these extra copies.
This really isn't brand new information if you've been following this thread for a long time.

Oricon has been tracking sales for years. The argument that it cannot be trusted because of OP's numbers is nothing but a poor counterargument from OP fanbase.

In my original post I wasn't comparing the peaks of both series, I'm just talking about the overall comparisons that I've seen in this thread while I was lurking. I've seen some people argue that DS should be the center on SJ covers which is insane to me considering the impact that OP had on SJ. Even Kochikame was getting the respect it deserves when OP was at its peak. My original post is more a response to that rather anything else.
I don't think anyone over here has ever stated that KNY needs to replace OP as the centre of WSJ joint covers. I'm assuming you've seen that comment on other threads and therefore think members here feel the same way.
 

Lugia__

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They don't. They stay in the warehouse until they're needed.

Your argument that Oricon all of a sudden doesn't track OP properly is silly. OP #56 had a first print of 2.85 million, yet sold better than OP #91 for example, despite its first print being higher.
Did Oricon just stop tracking the stores where OP sells better? It doesn't make any sense. First print doesn't necessarily match sales numbers.

And if there was actually such a discrepancy between OP's sales and Oricon's tracking, then what about all the series whose sales are fairly close to the first print number (i.e. MHA)? Are they mysteriously selling more than gets printed? Come on now.
They will never be needed then, and they'll just be losing money going with that argument. One Piece backlog sales aren't strong, and a typical One Piece volume sells a little over 2 million nowadays in a year, and I don't see stores requesting a million copies when they are not selling that much. I'm not sure why they print a lot more compared the sales that is being reported on Oricon. The argument that sheuisha is printing more just because its not good look, and is willing to lose money is kinda reaching. OP selling more than whats it is being reported makes more sense to me, but you do bring interesting points.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

If you've followed this forum properly, you'd know there are two kinds of reprints
1. Urgent reprints that go directly to stores because of urgent demand.
2. Reprints that are sent to warehouse until required further.

By the year end, you'd see that OP volumes would've sold about 2.3 million each over many months meaning those extra prints came in handy when needed. Also means that any additional demand can be met by these extra copies.
This really isn't brand new information if you've been following this thread for a long time.

Oricon has been tracking sales for years. The argument that it cannot be trusted because of OP's numbers is nothing but a poor counterargument from OP fanbase.


I don't think anyone over here has ever stated that KNY needs to replace OP as the centre of WSJ joint covers. I'm assuming you've seen that comment on other threads and therefore think members here feel the same way.
2.3 million is being sold in a year for a typical OP volume nowadays. There are still a million copies in the warehouse, why would they print this much when its not needed. still doesn't make sense to me. Sheuisha is a company that ultimately cares about profits. I don't think it would go this far just to save face.
 
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