Theory "World's Strongest..." titles

[Deleted member 169696]

I was wondering how are they achieved... Especially in regards to WSC (Kaido).

And this idea came to my mind. So we know that Mihawk kept on challenging swordsmen untill there was no worthy opponent.

WB was just strong and there was no pirate that could defeat him (bar Roger, maybe, but it's implied they were equal).

As for Kaido... I think that the reason the title "World's Strongest Creature" is attributed to him is:

1. He is a creature... lol.
2. He challenged a creature, that people thought of as the strongest in existence, and defeated it. Resulting in him getting the title.

That creature could have been a giant continent puller, perhaps...?

 

[M3J]

Kaidou was probably the strongest zoan user, or a dragon who ate a human human fruit.

Whitebeard was probably stronger than Roger and held the title either before Roger's death or as stated, after his death.

Interestingly though, neither was considered the Strongest Living Thing Alive, but I wouldn't be surprised if Kaidou was stronger than Whitebeard.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Interestingly though, neither was considered the Strongest Living Thing Alive, but I wouldn't be surprised if Kaidou was stronger than Whitebeard.

That's my point. WB was called the strongest man because no other man could defeat him (Kaido was defeated plenty of times).

Mihawk is the strongest among swordsmen because no other swordsman can defeat him.

And Kaido is the strongest creature, because there are no creatures stronger than him. And imo that doesn't include humans because in OP racism levels are quite high and again in my opinion they don't quite see giants, fishmen, minks etc as equals to humans.

So Kaido (dragon or oni, but more than likely not human) falls into the same category as minks/fishmen/sea kings. Closer to beasts, monsters, animals.

My assumption is that a few years after Oden's death Kaido started to challenge strong creatures and we know that Wano Kuni is abundant with different kinds of species (i.e. numbers, komainu, mountain god).

So I'm assuming there was something/someone that Kaido had to defeat in order to prove himself worthy of the title "World's Strongest Creature". Like a continent puller whose skull we see in Onigashima.

 

[HereNThere]

Titles probably came mainly from notoriety and accomplishments.

Mihawk clearly racked up wins against some of the more talented swordpersons in his day and eventually just got the title by default.

Whitebeard has clashed with Roger and Garp, both monstrously strong, but there is probably a feat that he had long ago that became legend and led towards him gaining his title.

A popular theory posits that Kaido isn't originally human, so that's the Creature part, but I think his introduction in the series covered it well. He's never been witnessed losing any fight when it comes to one vs one, he's never been able to be executed, and he's just strong as hell. Eventually those feats will gain momentum and one day you're suddenly the World's Strongest Creature. There most likely was never a creature that held the title before him.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

He's never been witnessed losing any fight when it comes to one vs one, he's never been able to be executed, and he's just strong as hell.

I don't think that's true as we were specifically told he lost 7 times. Maybe more, I don't remember.

But the point is it wasn't specified whether those defeats were one on one or not.

But I assume some of them were from one on one fights. Well, what we know for sure is that at least once Kaido was overpowered and almost defeated by Oden. Granted it was two decades ago but even then Kaido had immensely tough scales as was pointed out by Hiyori.

So imo it's more likely that it's either a special feature of his species that makes him the strongest creature or the fact that he is originally a dragon or something and they are considered the strongest or Kaido as a creature defeated some other creature that was deemed the strongest.

 

[HereNThere]

I don't think that's true as we were specifically told he lost 7 times. Maybe more, I don't remember.

But the point is it wasn't specified whether those defeats were one on one or not.

But I assume some of them were from one on one fights. Well, what we know for sure is that at least once Kaido was overpowered and almost defeated by Oden. Granted it was two decades ago but even then Kaido had immensely tough scales as was pointed out by Hiyori.

So imo it's more likely that it's either a special feature of his species that makes him the strongest creature or the fact that he is originally a dragon or something and they are considered the strongest or Kaido as a creature defeated some other creature that was deemed the strongest.

As you said, we were told he was defeated, but we were never told how. His intro ended with the impression that, while it's possible for him to lose and even be held captive , it's unlikely his loses came from the result of a single opponent thus the saying.

That's why I said witnessed. We know Oden potentially almost defeated Kaido as readers, but in universe, it's unlikely that anyone, outside of the participants in that fight, are aware of that. The world at large clearly still views him as undefeated in a one on one, given that he was made into an quote.

Or he himself could just be strong. Even if he he had a unique trait from his potential heritage, he most likely stands out among even them in terms of strength. His possession of CoC alone implies that.

 

[thedude]

You get it from notoriety. It's not like WB has a championship belt that he earned from beating the strongest person. He was a rival of Roger, he has accomplished enough feats, probably beaten enough pirates and marines that they called him that. There isn't a "test your strength machine".

Likewise, with Mihawk, he's a swordsman. He has been challenged by other swordsmen and beaten them (not Shanks...but others ) He has one of the 12 best graded swords, the black blade on it. Since he is dedicated to the sword, and has beaten all that challenge him, he gets given a title by people, "WSS". It's about his skill with a blade.

It doesn't mean he'd win every fight against a swordsman though. Big Mom wields a sword. She'd wreck him. Likewise, WB used a bladed weapon, and he'd beat Mihawk, who was only confident enough to test his strength from a mile away.

For Kaido...he's a Zoan. A "creature". He has unnatural durability. So they call him a creature. The worlds strongest. But what does that even mean? Marines have beaten him. Shanks can make him run back to Wano. He needed to stall Oden for 5 years to beat him.

These titles only mean the world on these boards. And only because some people don't want to admit that this is a Shonen manga where the protagonist, Luffy, will be the strongest in his crew. That's it. Full stop. That's why these debates are so circular and boring. It's not even about the person who holds the title, it's about the logic of "Zoro will surpass him, therefore becoming WSS...uh...and it's stronger than Pirate King!".

 

[nik87]

The only thing needed is for Oda to give you the title and that's it.
Kaido doesnt need to beat literally anyone and everyone to obtain such title, he only needs to be the strongest character in Oda's eyes.
Same for Whitebeard, among all humans, he deems him as strongest. He doesnt have to go and beat all other humans or 2nd strongest...
Same for Mihawk, among all swordsmen, he stands on top of the food chain.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I'm still saying titles are just hype and don't mean shit when you speak of the substance of the person and with Kaido and WB its been proven right. Mihawk's title pertains the strength of his swordsmanship not his strength overall. That fact that we don't know the name of a single notable person Mihawk has faced (ignoring pre Yonko Shanks) also speaks to this. WSC is due to Kaido being unkillable and WSM was debatable because Garp and Roger were WB's equal.

These are all points I've made in the past, but I'll reiterate here

 

[Shasha23]

I'm still saying titles are just hype and don't mean shit when you speak of the substance of the person and with Kaido and WB its been proven right. Mihawk's title pertains the strength of his swordsmanship not his strength overall. That fact that we don't know the name of a single notable person Mihawk has faced (ignoring pre Yonko Shanks) also speaks to this. WSC is due to Kaido being unkillable and WSM was debatable because Garp and Roger were WB's equal.

These are all points I've made in the past, but I'll reiterate here

So its proven right with Kaido because he can beat Luffy?
Who did Kaido face that is notable for you to say his title has been proven?

 

[Pirate Queen]

So its proven right with Kaido because he can beat Luffy?
Who did Kaido face that is notable for you to say his title has been proven?

I said Kaido's title is base on his inability to be killed. Please read comments completely before responding.

WSC = Cannot be killed
WSM = Had 2 equal to him
WSS = only top tier without a notable achievement and wields a title no one besides Zoro seemingly cares about.

 

[Shasha23]

I said Kaido's title is base on his inability to be killed. Please read comments completely before responding.

WSC = Cannot be killed
WSM = Had 2 equal to him
WSS = only top tier without a notable achievement and wields a title no one besides Zoro seemingly cares about.

WSC = is not because he cant be killed, he literally has the power of the strongest creature in the verse, that's why he is called such
WSM = How was he strongest when 2-3 others were as strong if not stronger than him
WSS = He is undefeated and the 2nd person in the whole verse to advance his haki high enough to archive a blackblade

 

[Pirate Queen]

WSC = is not because he cant be killed, he literally has the power of the strongest creature in the verse, that's why he is called such
WSM = How was he strongest when 2-3 others were as strong if not stronger than him
WSS = He is undefeated and the 2nd person in the whole verse to advance his haki high enough to archive a blackblade

You don't know if Mihawk was ever undefeated. Being the strongest doesn't mean undefeated.

You don't know if advanced haki is needed to achieve a black blade. You continue to make shit up...

 

[Shasha23]

You don't know if Mihawk was ever undefeated. Being the strongest doesn't mean undefeated.

You don't know if advanced haki is needed to achieve a black blade. You continue to make shit up...

If he was defeated he wouldn't be WSS and Zoro wouldn't be aiming for him now would he.

If black blades weren't made from advanced haki then why dont more people have them?

 

[Pirate Queen]

If he was defeated he wouldn't be WSS and Zoro wouldn't be aiming for him now would he.

If black blades weren't made from advanced haki then why dont more people have them?

If Kaido was defeated he wouldn't be the WSC and something else would have the title now wouldn't it?

See how I fliped that on you?

As to your second point. Black blades aren't an important indicator of strength, just of swordamanship mastery. That's all. Not even Zoro has difinitively said he wants a black blade... only that he was CURIOUS as to how they were made.

Not a single character in One Piece has praised Mihawk for creating a black blade. No one, even during the war, made a point to say "Whoa the legendary black blade!" No one cares about black blades. Swordbois put far more emphasis on black blades than Oda ever has.

 

[Aliocha]

Not a single character in One Piece has praised Mihawk for creating a black blade. No one, even during the war, made a point to say "Whoa the legendary black blade!" No one cares about black blades. Swordbois put far more emphasis on black blades than Oda ever has.

To be fair, only FS was hyped by Rayleigh as an advanced form of Haki, saying that the strongest were able to see the future with CoO

 

[Pirate Queen]

To be fair, only FS was hyped by Rayleigh as an advanced form of Haki, saying that the strongest were able to see the future with CoO

How does that have anything to do with my post tho?

 

[Shasha23]

If Kaido was defeated he wouldn't be the WSC and something else would have the title now wouldn't it?

See how I fliped that on you?

As to your second point. Black blades aren't an important indicator of strength, just of swordamanship mastery. That's all. Not even Zoro has difinitively said he wants a black blade... only that he was CURIOUS as to how they were made.

Not a single character in One Piece has praised Mihawk for creating a black blade. No one, even during the war, made a point to say "Whoa the legendary black blade!" No one cares about black blades. Swordbois put far more emphasis on black blades than Oda ever has.

He is a dragon, the strongest creature. even if he gets defeated a million times he will still be the strongest creature!!!

Nah i didn't see you flipping anything.

The sword god had one, the WSS has one!
i would will call that a factor.

Smoker and Tashigi commented on the black blade Yoru if i remember correctly.
There are only 2 people who have made 1 its idiotic to think something like that isn't special.

 

[Pirate Queen]

He is a dragon, the strongest creature. even if he gets defeated a million times he will still be the strongest creature!!!

Nah i didn't see you flipping anything.

The sword god had one, the WSS has one!
i would will call that a factor.

Smoker and Tashigi commented on the black blade Yoru if i remember correctly.
There are only 2 people who have made 1 its idiotic to think something like that isn't special.

Show the panel of them praising the blade please. I don't recall that ever happening.

--- Double Post Merged, May 2, 2020, Original Post Date: May 2, 2020 ---

the factor is that both dedicated their lives to being swordsmen Mihawk/Ryuma

 

[nik87]

If Kaido was defeated he wouldn't be the WSC and something else would have the title now wouldn't it?

What if he wasnt called WSC until nobody was stronger than him?