Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

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Shinuki no Reborn

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MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #51 - VOTING!​

The poll for issue #51 is now open, vote for your favorite chapters of the week clicking HERE!

Alongside the release of Sakamoto Days, the extra series this week are:

-Dragon Ball Super 66
-Boruto: Naruto Next Generations 52
-Ghost Reaper Girl 10


Good Votes!
 
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Halloween

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Moderator Notice:
Henceforth, I will be deleting posts that complain about Weekly Shonen Jump having too many/not enough gag/battle/exorcism/sports/etc series.

These posts are not insightful, and do not meaningfully contribute to this thread. Also, this decision is not up for discussion, so posts discussing this decision will also be deleted.~ Halloween
 
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Ryuusei

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呪 僕 O マ ブ S C D 破 C B 夜 C 僕 あ 灼 ぼ チ 高 ア 森 A 仄 ぼ 次号カラー ヒロアカ アンデラ 夜桜 約ネバ 道産子 GIGA 岸本先生が描くコラボポスター 爆豪クリアファイル
Jujutsu Kaisen (Cover & LCP)
My Hero Academia
One Piece
Mashle
Black Clover
Sakamoto Days (CP)
Dr. Stone
Magu-chan: God of Destruction (CP)
Build King
Mission: Yozakura Family
Me & Roboco
Ayakashi Triangle (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai
We Never Learn
Chainsaw Man
Koukousei Kazoku
Undead Unluck
Moriking
Agravity Boys
Honomieru Shounen
Bokura no Ketsumei

Issue #1
Cover & LCP: My Hero Academia
CP: Undead Unluck, Mission: Yozakura Family, The Promised Neverland, Dosanko Gyaru wa Namaramenkoi

GIGA Preview
Collab poster by Kishimoto
Bakugou clear file
 
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101nemesis

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Gintama was heavily influenced by Rurouni Kenshin and samurai fiction in general. Sorachi had a...unique way of showing it, but the serious arcs have that influence in full view.
I'm talking about Gintama for it's comedy. Nothing quite like it before it in WSJ.
 

Drake98

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I was also blown away with Bakuman. It gives so much perspective in the industry as a hole.
 

red_

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I was also blown away with Bakuman. It gives so much perspective in the industry as a hole.
I wonder if the new series Time Paradox Ghostwriter will serve to be that industry inlook like Bakuman.
 

tirakai

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If you go back to old series though there's probably a bunch of huge trendsetters that were really unique for their time, like Harenchi Gakuen pretty much creating ecchi manga.

I'm talking about Gintama for it's comedy. Nothing quite like it before it in WSJ.
What? Gintama's comedy is mostly three things, poop and dick jokes (which have been around since WSJ started), parody, and commentary on society (which definitely weren't new concepts in 2004). It was nothing new in terms of comedy.
 

Drake98

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I wonder if the new series Time Paradox Ghostwriter will serve to be that industry inlook like Bakuman.
Yeah, It looks like Steins Gate + Bakuman. Looking foward to it.
 

tirakai

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I find it hard to imagine Ghost Writer being a look inside the industry considering the artist seems to be a total newbie and the author's only been around with published manga for 6 years having 2 flops and some oneshots. Surely you'd need a bit of long-term success to really be able to show stuff like that effectively.
 

WyldViolet

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As someone who has followed the magazine weekly since 2012, and been reading Jump manga since at least 2001, I really can't get on board with this "jump isn't diverse enough" argument. I mean, Chainsaw Man and Act-Age are two of the most ambitious series Jump has had.

Mashle is shaping up to be a brilliant mix of comedy and epic plot. Someone mentioned Helck earlier which was a brilliant comparison and something Jump hasn't really had before (although things have been similar like Beelzebub).

Despite being problematic Undead x Unluck is brimming with creativity and it's focus on unlikeable characters is a trait shared with Chainsaw Man and not as common to Jump tradition. Characters like Denji and Andy make Yusuke look like Tenma.


I can't go into Evey series because my laptop broke and I only have a tablet. I think the magazine is super diverse right now, especially given we're in a transitional phase with so many big series ending. We're entering a really fascinating new period for Jump and I'm super excited. Not to mention some of the most promising mangaka have yet to debut or return to the magazine.
 

red_

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I find it hard to imagine Ghost Writer being a look inside the industry considering the artist seems to be a total newbie and the author's only been around with published manga for 6 years having 2 flops and some oneshots. Surely you'd need a bit of long-term success to really be able to show stuff like that effectively.
I don't know what the artist would have to do with it not being able to accurately portray a look inside the industry, I think that just falls on the author. I don't think every mangaka is the same in which there is a correct way to go about things. If the series can survive for a bit, then you would think it might be like drawing a self-portrait after a while. I think it's going to be hit or miss on simply whatever the plot is with the time travel.
 

Aeneas

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I find it hard to imagine Ghost Writer being a look inside the industry considering the artist seems to be a total newbie and the author's only been around with published manga for 6 years having 2 flops and some oneshots. Surely you'd need a bit of long-term success to really be able to show stuff like that effectively.
Flip those.
 

Lil meen

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I'm not trying to prove a point or make a case LOL It was just a thought that I have and I wanted to know your opinions since most of you are probably following more closely than me.
Here is my opinion.

I feel like every single generation of shonen jump had changed the way that shonen manga is produced. I even go as far as to say that shonen jump is one of the most influential, unique, and experimental magazines probably 2nd to shonen magazine in some aspects. One of shonen jumps first hits (shameless school and okotto) were very experimental as one was an ecchi manga (may not seem like much now but back then it was rare and basically never done in children’s magazines) and a drama/ political satire (not something you see a lot in shonen magazine at least nowadays). These can also be blamed for the huge “garo” movement in shonen manga during the early 70s. Then throughout the 70s they would make raunchy and violent gag manga and over exaggerating sports series (again not a lot of those at the time) which would basically change the way people looked at comedy and sports manga. Doberman deka, kinikuman, and fist of the North Star would start the massive and infamous manly men phenomenon of the 80s and would go on to inspire other manga in and out of jump during the 80s and even now. Ring no kakorae would revolutionize the modern battle shonen genre with its flashy and epic fights which most popular battle manga still use today. Dragon ball while considered generic today was absolutely revolutionary back then. There was really nothing like it back then as this would start the work ethic part of battle shonen. Before this fighters were naturally strong and didn’t really have to work to get to where they are at. Goku has to actually train and work to become stronger which while this is something that people complain about this honestly adds depth to the manga. Dragon ball z portion comes in and popularize the over the top battle shonen part of battle shonen with 2 extreme power levels fighting each other with out one getting killed after one hit. Jojos bizarre adventure would start to break the mold with its extremely experimental fighting style (especially its later parts), generational type of story, and constant protagonist/ genre shifts. There is honestly nothing out like jojo today. Also you have captain tsubasa for popularizing other sport manga instead of baseball, kendo, and boxing. Yu yu hakusho would kind of take the occult genre usually associated with horror and would mix it with battle shonen which honestly is a revolution in itself considering all of the supernatural action series we have coming out. Slam dunk would cause a humongous boom in b-ball in Japan exceeding manga influence. Rookie would be one of the pioneers for the yankee boom of manga with abunch of other seinen/shonen series that would come in the 90s. Rurouni kenshin would bring a much darker tone compared to shonen manga at the time and touch on very deep and dark themes. Yu gi oh would cause the humongous boom in game manga along with hikaru no go (mostly seen in weekly shonen magazine and web manga nowadays). One piece would kind of take the “I wanna be the very best” trope and put it into jump manga as a household name during 00s/10s. Naruto would do the same but that clearly had the most influence on jump manga today. Hunter x hunter would take the tropes off vanilla battle shonen and perfect it. Dragon ball would cause many people across the nation to be introduced to anime and manga. Bleach would kind of push the yu yu hakusho influence more than ever. Death note would cause a massive boom in the supernatural thriller genre (not saying it’s the first but a huge influx of those type would come in the late 2000s). It was also an oddity as there wasn’t and still isn’t many jump manga like it. It felt like either a champion, magazine, or seinen magazine and would become one of the most popular anime in America right now and would change how anime was looked at like overseas (that anime can tell just as dark and thrilling stories as American shows. Bakuman would become a massive slice of life blockbuster hit that is not seen a lot in jump unless it is a comedy. Nisekoi would become a humongous blockbuster hit in shonen jump and be the longest running romantic comedy. Assasination classroom had an extremely interesting and unique plot that I see becoming influential in the 20s. The promised Neverland and act age are manga I can see continuing to push the boundaries on what genres shonen jump can have. Dr stone, chainsaw man, and undead unluck continue to experiment with the battle shonen genre in unseen ways. Jujutsu kaisan would kind of give the occult action genre a more dark and violent spin to it. Demon slayer while not unique but not generic keeps breaking manga sales records (which is insane considering the manga market isn’t nearly as huge as it was in the 80s/90s and the rise of web comics in japan). My hero academia and black clover is the new generation gateway anime. In conclusion every generation is just as influential and unique in my opinion so I see no need for arguement as jump as a whole changed the way people looked at manga/anime not only in Japan but around the world. Without jump the market wouldn’t be the same.
 

Rain Spectre

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Here is my opinion.

I feel like every single generation of shonen jump had changed the way that shonen manga is produced. I even go as far as to say that shonen jump is one of the most influential, unique, and experimental magazines probably 2nd to shonen magazine in some aspects. One of shonen jumps first hits (shameless school and okotto) were very experimental as one was an ecchi manga (may not seem like much now but back then it was rare and basically never done in children’s magazines) and a drama/ political satire (not something you see a lot in shonen magazine at least nowadays). These can also be blamed for the huge “garo” movement in shonen manga during the early 70s. Then throughout the 70s they would make raunchy and violent gag manga and over exaggerating sports series (again not a lot of those at the time) which would basically change the way people looked at comedy and sports manga. Doberman deka, kinikuman, and fist of the North Star would start the massive and infamous manly men phenomenon of the 80s and would go on to inspire other manga in and out of jump during the 80s and even now. Ring no kakorae would revolutionize the modern battle shonen genre with its flashy and epic fights which most popular battle manga still use today. Dragon ball while considered generic today was absolutely revolutionary back then. There was really nothing like it back then as this would start the work ethic part of battle shonen. Before this fighters were naturally strong and didn’t really have to work to get to where they are at. Goku has to actually train and work to become stronger which while this is something that people complain about this honestly adds depth to the manga. Dragon ball z portion comes in and popularize the over the top battle shonen part of battle shonen with 2 extreme power levels fighting each other with out one getting killed after one hit. Jojos bizarre adventure would start to break the mold with its extremely experimental fighting style (especially its later parts), generational type of story, and constant protagonist/ genre shifts. There is honestly nothing out like jojo today. Also you have captain tsubasa for popularizing other sport manga instead of baseball, kendo, and boxing. Yu yu hakusho would kind of take the occult genre usually associated with horror and would mix it with battle shonen which honestly is a revolution in itself considering all of the supernatural action series we have coming out. Slam dunk would cause a humongous boom in b-ball in Japan exceeding manga influence. Rookie would be one of the pioneers for the yankee boom of manga with abunch of other seinen/shonen series that would come in the 90s. Rurouni kenshin would bring a much darker tone compared to shonen manga at the time and touch on very deep and dark themes. Yu gi oh would cause the humongous boom in game manga along with hikaru no go (mostly seen in weekly shonen magazine and web manga nowadays). One piece would kind of take the “I wanna be the very best” trope and put it into jump manga as a household name during 00s/10s. Naruto would do the same but that clearly had the most influence on jump manga today. Hunter x hunter would take the tropes off vanilla battle shonen and perfect it. Dragon ball would cause many people across the nation to be introduced to anime and manga. Bleach would kind of push the yu yu hakusho influence more than ever. Death note would cause a massive boom in the supernatural thriller genre (not saying it’s the first but a huge influx of those type would come in the late 2000s). It was also an oddity as there wasn’t and still isn’t many jump manga like it. It felt like either a champion, magazine, or seinen magazine and would become one of the most popular anime in America right now and would change how anime was looked at like overseas (that anime can tell just as dark and thrilling stories as American shows. Bakuman would become a massive slice of life blockbuster hit that is not seen a lot in jump unless it is a comedy. Nisekoi would become a humongous blockbuster hit in shonen jump and be the longest running romantic comedy. Assasination classroom had an extremely interesting and unique plot that I see becoming influential in the 20s. The promised Neverland and act age are manga I can see continuing to push the boundaries on what genres shonen jump can have. Dr stone, chainsaw man, and undead unluck continue to experiment with the battle shonen genre in unseen ways. Jujutsu kaisan would kind of give the occult action genre a more dark and violent spin to it. Demon slayer while not unique but not generic keeps breaking manga sales records (which is insane considering the manga market isn’t nearly as huge as it was in the 80s/90s and the rise of web comics in japan). My hero academia and black clover is the new generation gateway anime. In conclusion every generation is just as influential and unique in my opinion so I see no need for arguement as jump as a whole changed the way people looked at manga/anime not only in Japan but around the world. Without jump the market wouldn’t be the same.
Great writeup but, uh...paragraphs exist.
 

El Jacco

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Wow, I tought we couldnt talk about series that isnt in the current lineup. Where are the rules being imposed? /s btw

In the talk of Old vs Current, I like better the "old series" from Jump than the current lineup, with some few exceptions. They felt more enjoyable overall.
Still excited to see what else will bring these series and upcoming ones.
 

perroloco

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You arguing that there are series in the current roster you enjoy doesn't invalidate the point that you are speaking from the perspective of rose tinted lenses.

And of course you don't have an "emotional connection" to series literally about to end, you yourself admitted you only read them because of quarantine.
So.. rain.. ummm then what about all the people that just bought it because of hype? (which in the case of KnY is 90% of its fanbase).Then they can't also feel emotional connection?

A cousin of mine just got to watch got during this quarentine and he watched like the whole 8 seasons in a single week, just because he binged it he can't feel an emotional connection?

Heck even I devoured some of my favorite manga to date, back when I had no internet and burned Edited Mangas into CDs, I literally read 19 volumes of BLEACH in a single sitting, HxH took me two days, Hikaru no Go, Hoshin Engi, Ichigo 100% was more or less the same.

Gatekeeping series just because you watched/read from the beginning is also a dumb argument, people can feel a range of emotions regardless if they read/watched something over various years or in a single weekend...

Though I do agree there is a sentiment of "nostalgia" that can't be replicated if you binge read/watch something vs following it as it airs/runs.

///////////////////

@Buranchi here's a list of what I consider non-derivative Jump manga or manga that even though derivative kinda made their own "genre" or where different enough from their inspirations.

Harenchi Gakuen was first ecchi.

Mazinger although not only ran in Jump and was being inspired by Tetsujin-28 go definetly gave a boost to Mecha genre.

Hokuto no Ken in a sense is like Dark Souls in that it kinda created its own genre of super muscular macho looking teenagers that gave birth to series like Otokojuku and JoJo.

JoJo itself later created a "genre" of its own (I might be wrong, maybe it wasn't the first manga to do this) of having characters with weird powers (and also having a physical representation of it).
So you have series like Shaman King, Yu-Gi-Oh, Persona where they take the "Stand" element.
But you also have series like Hunter x Hunter and some parts of Yu Yu Hakusjo where they took inspiration from JoJo's Bizarre battle system (as in battles are more battles of wits to than muscle).

Yu-Gi-Oh! was pretty original from its very beginning, and then later when it changed to card battle manga it basically created a genre (not sure if there was a battle card manga before..? Maybe an adaptation of Mtg or something).

Ginga Nagarebishi Gin I'm most likely 100% wrong but I don't know if any other manga before Ginga other than Kimba the white lion that had animals for main characters, ofc then other manga like Gon or Midori no Makibao.

Bakuman I guess is like a documentary of sorts I mean sure is slice of life but it's its own thing.

Barefoot Gen is an autobiographical account of the Hiroshima bombing.

Talking about spokon.. So Ring Ni Kakero Is a direct homage to Ashita no Joe, but it kinda started the whole "incredible sports" genre and so many cliches that even though it is derivative of Ashita no Joe is almost as if it's a subversion of everything Ashita no Joe was, if AnJ is a dark, gritty, realistic boxing manga then Ring Ni Kakero Is a over the top, bizarre, unrealistic mess with bigger than life battles with literal boxing Jesus chanting his "Neo Bible" attack.
And other titles like Captain Tsubasa would steal its formula and become worldwide classics.

Hunter x Hunter is like Community (a sitcom where basically every episode is an homage to a genre of movie, also it's on Netflix you should watch it if you haven't ), every arc of HxH is a derivation of a typical Shonen genre.
At first it's pretty meh, like it's a normal battle tournament arc, then a rescue arc, Greed island is an isekai, battle card, sport arc, etc... The newest arc is like a Survival game.. I just hope that HxH becomes a manga that other mangas derivate from haha.

Death Note, kinds derivative from the whole mystery genre.. but it had a pretty unique premise to it.

The promised Neverland and Assasination classroom seem original too, but I haven't read them.
 
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Halloween

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Wow, I tought we couldnt talk about series that isnt in the current lineup. Where are the rules being imposed? /s btw
I see the /s, but that was for singular series discussion. This current discussion is over different eras, with the current lineup being mentioned alongside it. It's different.
 

BX-02BLODIA

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So.. rain.. ummm then what about all the people that just bought it because of hype? (which in the case of KnY is 90% of its fanbase).Then they can't also feel emotional connection?

A cousin of mine just got to watch got during this quarentine and he watched like the whole 8 seasons in a single week, just because he binged it he can't feel an emotional connection?

Heck even I devoured some of my favorite manga to date, back when I had no internet and burned Edited Mangas into CDs, I literally read 19 volumes of BLEACH in a single sitting, HxH took me two days, Hikaru no Go, Hoshin Engi, Ichigo 100% was more or less the same.

Gatekeeping series just because you watched/read from the beginning is also a dumb argument, people can feel a range of emotions regardless if they read/watched something over various years or in a single weekend...

Though I do agree there is a sentiment of "nostalgia" that can't be replicated if you binge read/watch something vs following it as it airs/runs.

///////////////////

@Buranchi here's a list of what I consider non-derivative Jump manga or manga that even though derivative kinda made their own "genre" or where different enough from their inspirations.

Harenchi Gakuen was first ecchi.

Mazinger although not only ran in Jump and was being inspired by Tetsujin-28 go definetly gave a boost to Mecha genre.

Hokuto no Ken in a sense is like Dark Souls in that it kinda created its own genre of super muscular macho looking teenagers that gave birth to series like Otokojuku and JoJo.

JoJo itself later created a "genre" of its own (I might be wrong, maybe it wasn't the first manga to do this) of having characters with weird powers (and also having a physical representation of it).
So you have series like Shaman King, Yu-Gi-Oh, Persona where they take the "Stand" element.
But you also have series like Hunter x Hunter and some parts of Yu Yu Hakusjo where they took inspiration from JoJo's Bizarre battle system (as in battles are more battles of wits to than muscle).

Yu-Gi-Oh! was pretty original from its very beginning, and then later when it changed to card battle manga it basically created a genre (not sure if there was a battle card manga before..? Maybe an adaptation of Mtg or something).

Ginga Nagarebishi Gin I'm most likely 100% wrong but I don't know if any other manga before Ginga other than Kimba the white lion that had animals for main characters, ofc then other manga like Gon or Midori no Makibao.

Bakuman I guess is like a documentary of sorts I mean sure is slice of life but it's its own thing.

Barefoot Gen is an autobiographical account of the Hiroshima bombing.

Talking about spokon.. So Ring Ni Kakero Is a direct homage to Ashita no Joe, but it kinda started the whole "incredible sports" genre and so many cliches that even though it is derivative of Ashita no Joe is almost as if it's a subversion of everything Ashita no Joe was, if AnJ is a dark, gritty, realistic boxing manga then Ring Ni Kakero Is a over the top, bizarre, unrealistic mess with bigger than life battles with literal boxing Jesus chanting his "Neo Bible" attack.
And other titles like Captain Tsubasa would steal its formula and become worldwide classics.

Hunter x Hunter is like Community (a sitcom where basically every episode is an homage to a genre of movie, also it's on Netflix you should watch it if you haven't ), every arc of HxH is a derivation of a typical Shonen genre.
At first it's pretty meh, like it's a normal battle tournament arc, then a rescue arc, Greed island is an isekai, battle card, sport arc, etc... The newest arc is like a Survival game.. I just hope that HxH becomes a manga that other mangas derivate from haha.

Death Note, kinds derivative from the whole mystery genre.. but it had a pretty unique premise to it.

The promised Neverland and Assasination classroom seem original too, but I haven't read them.
I'd say Bastard!! is on a league of it's own. I don't think there has been a manga in Jump that really was "Inspired" by it.
 

TxxT

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The promised Neverland and Assasination classroom seem original too, but I haven't read them.
I know you said you haven't read it but TPN is far from original, the premise is literally the exact same as Owari no Seraph
 

perroloco

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I know you said you haven't read it but TPN is far from original, the premise is literally the exact same as Owari no Seraph
I don't really think is original in the same sense that I don't think Attack on Titan is original (It's basically a zombie series but instead of zombies the threat is Giants..) but I thought maybe people thought it was original and non-derivative, but yeah just from what I know it seems like a survival manga of sorts.
 

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Neverland's arcs are all somewhat different but it starts off a a prison break series mixed with Death Note-style mind games and later becomes more about a revolution. Not the most common genres, but there are obvious inspirations.

Ass Class at its core is about a teacher helping students with their problems. The gimmick it adds about needing to kill the teacher is quite different, but 'cool and slightly crazy teacher helps a problem class' is a fairly popular genre in Japan. It's a unique spin on a classic genre, rather than a totally unique series.
 

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people can feel a range of emotions regardless if they read/watched something over various years or in a single weekend...
Sometimes that's the case, sometimes it's not. I've found that time between chapters, which can be used to discuss the ins and outs of a given chapter with fellow fans and/or allow yourself time to comprehend/process, heightens your appreciation of a series.

Sometimes cliffhangers are less impactful when you can instantly read the next chapter to find out what happens, etc.
 
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