Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

[Shinuki no Reborn]

MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #51 - VOTING!​

The poll for issue #51 is now open, vote for your favorite chapters of the week clicking HERE!

Alongside the release of Sakamoto Days, the extra series this week are:

-Dragon Ball Super 66
-Boruto: Naruto Next Generations 52
-Ghost Reaper Girl 10

Good Votes!

 

[Halloween]

Moderator Notice:
Henceforth, I will be deleting posts that complain about Weekly Shonen Jump having too many/not enough gag/battle/exorcism/sports/etc series.

These posts are not insightful, and do not meaningfully contribute to this thread. Also, this decision is not up for discussion, so posts discussing this decision will also be deleted.~ Halloween

 

[Ryuusei]

Spoiler: 52 TOC & 01 Preview

呪 僕 O マ ブ S C D 破 C B 夜 C 僕 あ 灼 ぼ チ 高 ア 森 A 仄 ぼ 次号カラー ヒロアカ アンデラ 夜桜 約ネバ 道産子 GIGA 岸本先生が描くコラボポスター 爆豪クリアファイル

Spoiler: Issue #52 ToC & Preview

Jujutsu Kaisen (Cover & LCP)
My Hero Academia
One Piece
Mashle
Black Clover
Sakamoto Days (CP)
Dr. Stone
Magu-chan: God of Destruction (CP)
Build King
Mission: Yozakura Family
Me & Roboco
Ayakashi Triangle (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai
We Never Learn
Chainsaw Man
Koukousei Kazoku
Undead Unluck
Moriking
Agravity Boys
Honomieru Shounen
Bokura no Ketsumei

Issue #1
Cover & LCP: My Hero Academia
CP: Undead Unluck, Mission: Yozakura Family, The Promised Neverland, Dosanko Gyaru wa Namaramenkoi

GIGA Preview
Collab poster by Kishimoto
Bakugou clear file

 

[tirakai]

lol You're just straight up being contradictory, if Agravity Boys have decent sales, good reviews aka reception, gets a reprint by Shonen Jump itself, how Shonen Jump don't consider it to be well received or worth pushing when they already did?

You know very well that i'm not acting like volume sales are the only thing that matters since i literally pointed out Samurai 8 not having a "good reception" and mentioned other flop series that were canceled because the overall bad positions and sales.

You still use Samurai 8 as a example as if you're pretending to not understand that the entire reception of the manga wasn't really good or at the level Shonen Jump wanted, simple as that, it wasn't because "ToC", it was because the whole situation, the same applies to Robot x Laserbeam that was declining more and more each volume (and getting bad too).

You say that i'm talking about sales being the only thing it matter but is basically you saying that the reason everything survives or not is solely because "toc placements" when is a group of factors.

Because WSJ is putting Agravity Boys at the bottom of the ToC, the place where flops go. If jump thought it was well-received it wouldn't be last, they'd be pushing it higher up to promote it more and help it gather more fans.

Maybe we'll see it rise from the dead in the next few issues but so far, WSJ doesn't seem to have much faith in it. There's a group of factors that determine what Jump continues and what they cancel, and the TOC is our indication of all those factors. If a new manga is always at the bottom, it'll probably get cancelled. If it's usually high or in the middle, it'll keep going. That's how it works.

Heck that's literally why this topic even exists, to discuss ToC placement because it's our main indicator of how well WSJ considers manga to be doing.

 

[Blink22]

Since I saw online polls mentioned, I think it should be reiterated once again that online Jap polls ≠ toc votes. While it’s great that some series seem to be garnering favorable popularity, don’t forget series like Kiruko or Saiyuki were getting favorable reviews and popularity online but still couldn’t survive due to not getting high toc placements. Heck, even Agravity Boys reception has been positive but it’s been almost perma bottom in the toc.

Vice versa, Kurogane was generally hated in Japan online but still managed to have decent sales and last 70 chapters.

It’s fun to view how people are currently rating series in these polls, but these should just be taken with a grain of salt considering the small sample sizes online.

 

[Koni]

found this interesting nothing super important but might as well

The interesting thing about this is that a lot of the rankings are the same. There's a clear hierarchy and consensus, it seems. More established and popular series tend to get higher ratings, it seems. I dunno the overlap of people who use MAL and AniList, but still.

 

[tirakai]

This ToC discussion got me curious about something.

What was the last series to hit dead last on its first ranking? The recent series mostly seem to get bottom half placements but not right at the bottom at first.

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

Because WSJ is putting Agravity Boys at the bottom of the ToC, the place where flops go. If jump thought it was well-received it wouldn't be last, they'd be pushing it higher up to promote it more and help it gather more fans.

Maybe we'll see it rise from the dead in the next few issues but so far, WSJ doesn't seem to have much faith in it. There's a group of factors that determine what Jump continues and what they cancel, and the TOC is our indication of all those factors. If a new manga is always at the bottom, it'll probably get cancelled. If it's usually high or in the middle, it'll keep going. That's how it works.

Heck that's literally why this topic even exists, to discuss ToC placement because it's our main indicator of how well WSJ considers manga to be doing.

You're again contradicting yourself, If Shonen Jump think Agravity Boy is a flop or not well received, why they didn't cancel it already? why they reprinted the manga? why they give a official twitter account? Why they didn't make anything like this for Mitama? Also calling the bottom the "place where flops go" isn't the best title since they still placing there series like Mitama, Yozakura, Undead, Yuuna and even Act-Age from time to time.

 

[Ryuusei]

I want to clarify one thing. Since the "reprints" argument has been constantly thrown around for Agravity, I want to remind you all once again that there are different kinds of reprints. I went back and looked up the reprints that Agravity got and it was the "on hand" type. As I said before, these reprints aren't sent out to stores immediately, they are kept by the magazine and are only sent out under request by the bookstores. It's not a clear indicator of a series doing well, of course there should be some positive factors behind these reprints for the magazine to order them, but it shouldn't be used as a concrete argument before we get to see how the following volume fares in sales. On the other hand, however, Undead Unluck 1 and Mission: Yozakura Family 2 got a "complete distribution" type, meaning that reprints were sent straight to the stores and is a much clearer sign before we get to see the following volume's sales.

 

[pamuchi]

I want to clarify one thing. Since the "reprints" argument has been constantly thrown around for Agravity, I want to remind you all once again that there are different kinds of reprints. I went back and looked up the reprints that Agravity got and it was the "on hand" type. As I said before, these reprints aren't sent out to stores immediately, they are kept by the magazine and are only sent out under request by the bookstores. It's not a clear indicator of a series doing well, of course there should be some positive factors behind these reprints for the magazine to order them, but it shouldn't be used as a concrete argument before we get to see how the following volume fares in sales. On the other hand, however, Undead Unluck 1 and Mission: Yozakura Family 2 got a "complete distribution" type, meaning that reprints were sent straight to the stores and is a much clearer sign before we get to see the following volume's sales.

Can you please post the types of reprints in a separate post? That's some handful info.

 

[tirakai]

They just haven't needed to cancel Agravity Boys yet, since Samurai 8 and Zipman were doing worse last batch and Kimetsu ended naturally. I wouldn't be surprised to see it be next to end alongside Guardian and maybe Yuuna though, unless they only need two series or it suddenly starts jumping up.

And by the place for flops I meant dead last, like where Agravity Boys currently is (which I mentioned multiple times). There's nothing contradictory there, you're just not understanding or remember stuff. In regards to Twitter accounts, I'd imagine they depend on the individual creator.

Fact is, Agravity Boys is dead last in the ToC and has been bottom 5 for most of its run. If WSJ considered it to have good reception, why would it always be at the bottom? You're not making any sense.

 

[Koni]

I know that this was already posted, but...


Damn. Is it just me, or is this rather low? For a series that essentially shares a premise with Quintuplets from Magazine and have anime of similar quality, to boot the difference in sales is absolutely astounding. While Quints's last volume is managing to outsell those of all of Jump not named One Piece or Demon Slayer (and selling more volumes than any manga this Oricon year not named OP or KNY so far), WNL is on track to be the lowest-selling of the established series not named Yuuna. (I'm pretty sure some of Champion's newer hits have higher print counts now.) To say nothing of Young Jump's Kaguya-sama, which sits comfortably in-between Quints and We Never Learn saleswise despite being absolutely beloved everywhere you go and having a stellar anime. Still, that manga is selling well. It's hard to explain sales, I find, but here I just find this stark contrast way too interesting - what's the difference here?

I want to clarify one thing. Since the "reprints" argument has been constantly thrown around for Agravity, I want to remind you all once again that there are different kinds of reprints. I went back and looked up the reprints that Agravity got and it was the "on hand" type. As I said before, these reprints aren't sent out to stores immediately, they are kept by the magazine and are only sent out under request by the bookstores. It's not a clear indicator of a series doing well, of course there should be some positive factors behind these reprints for the magazine to order them, but it shouldn't be used as a concrete argument before we get to see how the following volume fares in sales. On the other hand, however, Undead Unluck 1 and Mission: Yozakura Family 2 got a "complete distribution" type, meaning that reprints were sent straight to the stores and is a much clearer sign before we get to see the following volume's sales.

Last I heard from the Young Jump forum, there were two types of reprints: regular reprints and urgent reprints. Series that are growing tend to receive the latter. That's my understanding, anyways.

 

[Thehoennhippo]

Damn. Is it just me, or is this rather low? For a series that essentially shares a premise with Quintuplets from Magazine and have anime of similar quality, to boot the difference in sales is absolutely astounding. While Quints's last volume is managing to outsell those of all of Jump not named One Piece or Demon Slayer (and selling more volumes than any manga this Oricon year not named OP or KNY so far), WNL is on track to be the lowest-selling of the established series not named Yuuna. (I'm pretty sure some of Champion's newer hits have higher print counts now.) To say nothing of Young Jump's Kaguya-sama, which sits comfortably in-between Quints and We Never Learn saleswise despite being absolutely beloved everywhere you go and having a stellar anime. Still, that manga is selling well. It's hard to explain sales, I find, but here I just find this stark contrast way too interesting - what's the difference here?

I guess the difference would just have to be the contents? Even if the premise of WNL and Quints are so similar, the plot progression and tone are so radically different, I guess Quint's just found the bigger audience. I'm quite fond of WNL but I can't think of anytime it could end a volume with a "I need to buy the next volume now!" moment, but Quint's has plenty of plot hooks throughout that might make people buy more I guess.

 

[Ryuusei]

Can you please post the types of reprints in a separate post? That's some handful info.

Spoiler: Reprint Types

全量手持ち重版 or 手持ち重版 or simply 手 -> Reprints are stocked by magazine and are sent out only under request, no risk of return

一部配本一部手持ち重版 or 一一重版 or simply 一一 -> Reprints are half sent out to bookstores and half stocked by the maganize, smaller risk of return

全量配本重版 or 全配重版 or simply 全 > Reprints are completely sent out to bookstores, no risk of return due to high demand

I know that this was already posted, but...

Damn. Is it just me, or is this rather low? For a series that essentially shares a premise with Quintuplets from Magazine and have anime of similar quality, to boot the difference in sales is absolutely astounding. While Quints's last volume is managing to outsell those of all of Jump not named One Piece or Demon Slayer (and selling more volumes than any manga this Oricon year not named OP or KNY so far), WNL is on track to be the lowest-selling of the established series not named Yuuna. (I'm pretty sure some of Champion's newer hits have higher print counts now.) To say nothing of Young Jump's Kaguya-sama, which sits comfortably in-between Quints and We Never Learn saleswise despite being absolutely beloved everywhere you go and having a stellar anime. Still, that manga is selling well. It's hard to explain sales, I find, but here I just find this stark contrast way too interesting - what's the difference here?

It's such a weird situation cause volume 16 showed a circulation of 3,600,000 copies while volume 17 shows 3,700,000 copies. It's such an awkward growth for a series that used to be able to sell over 100,000 copies in less than a month.

 

[tirakai]

I literally just said why it's still going, you should read posts before replying. And Guardian's pretty obvious why it may be quicker to end. It ranks about the same as Agravity Boys overall (they seem to be switching out who's worse) so chances are the lower seller would end first.

I agree that Guardian might not end yet if both Yuuna and Neverland end next batch. What's even your point there? It's possible we won't see any of the newer series end until after September depending on how many new series they have and what older series end.

Just face it, Agravity Boys is not doing very well so far in Jump. Unless it suddenly starts getting better next issue (Act-age eventually did after weeks at the bottom so it's possible, if unlikely) it's probably in the top running for cancellation along with Guardian.

 

[OniluapL]

I know that this was already posted, but...


Damn. Is it just me, or is this rather low? For a series that essentially shares a premise with Quintuplets from Magazine and have anime of similar quality, to boot the difference in sales is absolutely astounding. While Quints's last volume is managing to outsell those of all of Jump not named One Piece or Demon Slayer (and selling more volumes than any manga this Oricon year not named OP or KNY so far), WNL is on track to be the lowest-selling of the established series not named Yuuna. (I'm pretty sure some of Champion's newer hits have higher print counts now.) To say nothing of Young Jump's Kaguya-sama, which sits comfortably in-between Quints and We Never Learn saleswise despite being absolutely beloved everywhere you go and having a stellar anime. Still, that manga is selling well. It's hard to explain sales, I find, but here I just find this stark contrast way too interesting - what's the difference here?




Last I heard from the Young Jump forum, there were two types of reprints: regular reprints and urgent reprints. Series that are growing tend to receive the latter. That's my understanding, anyways.

I think the simpler explanation is that... Gotoubun sells exceptionally well, most other rom-coms won't compare to it. Kaguya sells very well and it's still lower than it. Why Gotoubun sell that much is harder to explain, and I think there's no single reason, in a similar fashion to Kimetsu (even though people try to point out the good anime as a single explanation, but I disagree). A lot of factors coincided and resulted in it.

Regarding WNL specifically, however, I guess another point is that Jump doesn't really have that many huge sellers in the genre, while Magazine is more traditionally associated with romance series. Jump has only two right now, while WSM has... around 5 or 6? And they lost Gotoubun this year and Juliet the previous one. It still does fine, however, and will finish with 18 volumes or close to it, which is around what most series of its type tend to last .

Subjectively, I feel Gotoubun is _way_ better, and maybe its style (with more character development and drama, and less fanservice and filler) it's more interesting to the public right now. That would also explain Kaguya. But that's a wild guess, and I don't want to make statements based on just two or three series.

 

[tirakai]

I wondered something. has WSJ ever had any full spin-off manga serialised at the same time as the normal manga? Not just one-shots and bonus chapters from somewhere else but a full series.

We've had Dr Stone Reboot but that was just a mini-series, most other big magazines seem to sometimes have spin-offs that are full normal series. Like Zero's Tea Time for Conan over in Sunday.

 

[Lil meen]

I know that this was already posted, but...


Damn. Is it just me, or is this rather low? For a series that essentially shares a premise with Quintuplets from Magazine and have anime of similar quality, to boot the difference in sales is absolutely astounding. While Quints's last volume is managing to outsell those of all of Jump not named One Piece or Demon Slayer (and selling more volumes than any manga this Oricon year not named OP or KNY so far), WNL is on track to be the lowest-selling of the established series not named Yuuna. (I'm pretty sure some of Champion's newer hits have higher print counts now.) To say nothing of Young Jump's Kaguya-sama, which sits comfortably in-between Quints and We Never Learn saleswise despite being absolutely beloved everywhere you go and having a stellar anime. Still, that manga is selling well. It's hard to explain sales, I find, but here I just find this stark contrast way too interesting - what's the difference here?




Last I heard from the Young Jump forum, there were two types of reprints: regular reprints and urgent reprints. Series that are growing tend to receive the latter. That's my understanding, anyways.

I think it has to do with the fact that shonen magazine is more beloved and known for there romantic comedies than jump. Shonen magazine readers are more prone to read romance/ drama manga since those have really been the signboard works of magazine since the late 70s. Battle manga really wouldn’t take the magazine by storm until the late 90s. Shonen jump on the other hand has had battle/ nonsensical gag manga in as the signboard since the early 70s. While shonen jump had some romance manga that were pillars (video girl, I”s, and nisekoi) the main part of the magazine of shonen jump are the action, sports, and gag while shonen magazine are drama/yankee, sports, and romance.

 

[OniluapL]

I wondered something. has WSJ ever had any full spin-off manga serialised at the same time as the normal manga? Not just one-shots and bonus chapters from somewhere else but a full series.

We've had Dr Stone Reboot but that was just a mini-series, most other big magazines seem to sometimes have spin-offs that are full normal series. Like Zero's Tea Time for Conan over in Sunday.

I think when Dr Stone Reboot started they advertised it as the first time it happened... So I guess it didn't.

 

[Bodoro]

Idk I still find it weird that Agravity Boys has been bottom 5 the entire time practically since it began. Like doesn't anyone find it weird that Jump gave it a official twitter page while it was always low ranking, but it hasn't given a twitter page to Guardian, Mitama, Yozakura, and Mashle.

Like when something is in the bottom 5 on the TOC since it began, you don't expect it to sell 12k right? I find it weird that they barely pushed it on the TOC, but yet out of all the newbies, UU and Agravity are the only ones with twitter pages.

I think if sales increase again, it will survive.

Edit:

I heard that Jump puts gags near the end of the magazine. Is this true, because if so how would we know if they aren't putting Agravity there on purpose?

 

[pamuchi]

Some spooky stuff

 

[BX-02BLODIA]

Some spooky stuff

Reminds me of that Jump 2020 poster where Emma has Tanjiro's sword and Denji's Chainsaw.

 

[Stivie]

Idk I still find it weird that Agravity Boys has been bottom 5 the entire time practically since it began. Like doesn't anyone find it weird that Jump gave it a official twitter page while it was always low ranking, but it hasn't given a twitter page to Guardian, Mitama, Yozakura, and Mashle.

Like when something is in the bottom 5 on the TOC since it began, you don't expect it to sell 12k right? I find it weird that they barely pushed it on the TOC, but yet out of all the newbies, UU and Agravity are the only ones with twitter pages.

I think if sales increase again, it will survive.

Edit:

I heard that Jump puts gags near the end of the magazine. Is this true, because if so how would we know if they aren't putting Agravity there on purpose?

Nationalism, the manga has one of the main characters of African ethnicity.