Discussion Shinsoo manipulation and properties

[hblock]

He did not...

Read the part about him explaining "Internal quality shinsu control"/"quality manifested shinsu control" and also how only "special" rare individuals could ever use qualities and shapes fitting them.

what the user's shinsoo is suited to

It's more than that, shinsu qualities and shapes is something only specific to the said individual.

Nothing suggests shinsoo qualities are unique

One can have many qualities/shapes but again it's the equivalent of KGs in Naruto. Only a selected few can use these kind of abilities.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

I don't know why so much insistence on Baam's skills as a fisherman has already been made clear that when it comes to a high level fight, he is always at a disadvantage in that position. Against regulars he always did well because he is an irregular, but when he faced Data Zahard, he only managed to stand out when he took the position of a WC. Baam's skills as a fisherman depend on his strengthening of Shinsoo, which differs from people like Yuri, Androssi, Cha, Novick etc, people who besides the strong strengthening of Shinsoo, have a high physical ability.

Regarding Shinsoo's quality, remember that it is a type of Shinsoo manipulation used by ancient rankers, Kallavan made this very clear during his fight with the Dowon wall keeper. That is, it is quite capable of most of the rankers that we have seen to date, they do not even use the Shinsoo manipulation suited to them and that training their Shinsoo quality is something specific to privileged people, who can be trained by old rankers (such as members of high level of the 10 families).

Because High Rankers have to handle all 5 Basic positions "at least well" (SIU). I suppose that having a flaw in any of these áreas is an exploitable weakness a High Ranker can't afford to have. I don't know If It is required necessarily that you have a tough body to play "at least well" the role of Fisherman. I know heavily physical people Will be the picks for that role, but maybe people who sort of compensate with a great reinforcement can fit the "at least well" requirement. I'm counting It as "you must not be null in that department as to have others taking advantage of you because of It".

If Bam has a hax weapon with High priority over the others' and means of defending well against melee atks, both working in a Ranker level scenario which is the Golden standard in ToG, then imo he fita the "at least well" bill. He can do great as a Scout because of his inbuilt Shinsoo sensing, Spell imunity and Speed/Mobility (augmented by Wonsul skills). He is a Wave Controller. Imho, he can pass as Fisherman against weak Rankers. All he misses is a working Spear bearing skill and the core of Lightbearing.

He did not...

Sure, but the clicker's purpuse is to find shinsoo qualities and shapes... or more broadly, what the user's shinsoo is suited to. That's why shape or quality wise there isn't a consistency in what it finds. The orb is an item, but it doesn't have an element associated to it. Meanwhile aguero and rak both got a shape and quality. Androsi got her... thing but by all appearances there is no element to it. And miseng simply learned that her shinsoo is suited to reinforcement. Not sure if this bit is entirely accurate but for eduan lightning (no shape) was implied to be his first shinsoo quality.

That... not true. As in, factually incorrect. Nothing suggests shinsoo qualities are unique. Heck, eduan says he also has an ice spear IIRC. Shinsoo qualities can be rare but nothing suggests they are unique. Eduan's phrasing wouldn't even make sense if shinsoo qualities were unique as you say. As each one wouldn't be "rare" implying that few people have it, it would be "unique". Maybe not everyone has shinsoo qualities but as far as we know more than one user can have a given shinsoo quality. If anything that is why people from the same families can share traits like they do.

I don't think those are actually elements, AA's Shinsoo is just cold and Rak's solid. Androssi's is needle shaped, and like a needle, her bangs move quickly in that form.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 8, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 8, 2020 ---

Read the part about him explaining "Internal quality shinsu control"/"quality manifested shinsu control" and also how only "special" rare individuals could ever use qualities and shapes fitting them.


It's more than that, shinsu qualities and shapes is something only specific to the said individual.


One can have many qualities/shapes but again it's the equivalent of KGs in Naruto. Only a selected few can use these kind of abilities.

Positions are Naruto's KKG. Shinsoo qualities, with the exception of all burning fire are usually free to try and master. Only talent Will enable you to learn It, or to use It well, which is a whole different matter. Affinity does work like Naruto's Chakra Natures tho: you can't have Naruto performing well Earth jutsus when his affinity is Wind. Neither Sasuke. But they can learn it, yes, no problem. Same here with Qualities. The only restricted by Bloodline seems to be Positions.

 

[kkck]

Read the part about him explaining "Internal quality shinsu control"/"quality manifested shinsu control" and also how only "special" rare individuals could ever use qualities and shapes fitting them.


It's more than that, shinsu qualities and shapes is something only specific to the said individual.


One can have many qualities/shapes but again it's the equivalent of KGs in Naruto. Only a selected few can use these kind of abilities.

Sure, it's entirely possible possible that only relatively few people have shinsoo qualities. But that is not the same as shinsoo qualities being unique to an individual. Nothing we know of suggests two unrelated people can't have the same shinsoo quality. And again, a shinsoo quality or shape being rare specifically implies that others can have it. Heck, we know aguero and eduan have ice spear... As in, a confirmed factual case of people having the same shape and quality.

 

[hblock]

But that is not the same as shinsoo qualities being unique to an individual.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 8, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 8, 2020 ---

few people have shinsoo qualities

Only few people having shinsu qualities already proves that shinsu strenghtening isn't a shinsu quality.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 8, 2020 ---

a shinsoo quality or shape being rare specifically implies that others can have it

It implies that only an extreme minority can have it, as such shinsu strenghtening that everyone masters isn't a shinsu quality.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 8, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 8, 2020 ---

Only few people having shinsu qualities already proves that shinsu strenghtening isn't a shinsu quality.

Yes, Just like Naruto's Chakra Natures, not KKG. A Wind affinity Chakra can learn Doton, Evankhell could perhaps try and learn Ice Shinsoo. However It is only natural to AA and few other rare individuals and only they Will perform the best skills using Ice, while Evankhell's hot Shinsoo would at best sit with Basic Ice skills too useless for the effort involved.

Anima and Sorcery on the other hand, only If you were born with talent. Otherwise, no deal, or only through artificial means (Sacchi losing an eye in a ritual, Hockney getting Enryuu given eyes). Just like Youton, Mokuton and Jiton. Special positions = KKG.
Shinsoo qualities = Chakra Nature.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 8, 2020 ---

In other words:
Shinsoo qualities are free to learn, but BEING GOOD AT THEM is fixed from birth.
Special positions are exclusive to people born with a specific talent, or you won't even learn them.

 

[hblock]

Yes, Just like Naruto's Chakra Natures, not KKG. A Wind affinity Chakra can learn Doton, Evankhell could perhaps try and learn Ice Shinsoo. However It is only natural to AA and few other rare individuals and only they Will perform the best skills using Ice, while Evankhell's hot Shinsoo would at best sit with Basic Ice skills too useless for the effort involved.

Edahn specifically and explicitely explained that only few "special" individual have shinsu qualities, that would make shinsu qualitites as the equivalent of KGs.
Evankhel can never use ice shinsu even if she trained her hardest (well, unlike she has ice quality in the blood, SIU can surprise us).

Otherwise, no deal, or only through artificial means (Sacchi losing an eye in a ritual, Hockney getting Enryuu given eyes). Just like Youton, Mokuton and Jiton. Special positions = KKG.
Shinsoo qualities = Chakra Nature.

It's rather :
Shinsu qualitites = KGs
normal position = chakra nature

 

[kkck]

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 8, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 8, 2020 ---

Only few people having shinsu qualities already proves that shinsu strenghtening isn't a shinsu quality.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 8, 2020 ---

It implies that only an extreme minority can have it, as such shinsu strenghtening that everyone masters isn't a shinsu quality.

Not even a little bit. Shinsoo qualities are still just techniques your shinsoo is suited for. And its a fact that miseng's shinsoo quality is a form of shinsoo reinforcement. The only thing that means is that relatively few people have shinsoo qualities but those shinsoo qualities as evidenced by the series can still be anything, including reinforcement. This doesn't necessarily mean other people can't learn those skills (though there are some you can't learn without the talent or contracts), it just means your shinsoo isn't specially good for it. As in, nothing we know suggests a rando can't learn how to make a needle out of shinsoo, it just won't be something his shinsoo is specially suited for.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

It means that regular people have regular Shinsoo, and special people have special Shinsoo with special qualities. My interpretation of this reads that: people with cool Shinsoo can host a Firefish and not be consumed by its heat; people with a hot Shinsoo can reach a temperature so High that Shinsoo itself gets burned; high tension Shinsoo can be shaped like an orb; and so on. Indeed, people with a low tension are unsuited for creating Orb shaped Shinsoo, Just like cool Shinsoo likely can't reach the "True Fire" temperature, Just like a small person can't be a Defender.

Imho, Miseng's Shinsoo has what Kallavan described few chapters ago as "explosion Power". Her Shinsoo bursts suddenly. Kallavan mentions this because his explosion Power is higher than Bam's, but Bam's infinite flow eventually overwhelms his explosion, by his description. I think this might be a requisite for the misterious Dansulsa position, that exerts sudden extreme pressure on one point, the one that Kurudan used remotely to squash Ren on 2F.

@kkck : re-reading Edwan's line, I get the feeling Qualities are like 'width', 'volume', 'density', or 'hardness' that materials have, bit the Shinsoo version of them. So "Reinforcement" or "Ice" doesn't seem like qualities. AA's Shinsoo is likely cool and hard, which are qualities, and the end result is an icelike Shinsoo. Figuring out one's Shinsoo qualities results in better uses of that Shinsoo, not necessarily 'different elements'. If Miseng has a High explosion Shinsoo, her applying It to reinforcement results in sudden, High powered moves, or maybe like Kallavan's: AoE dmg Shinsoo atks. Each Shinsoo quality combination results in a different effect, and may bê used in several ways, such as a rod can be used as a walking stick or as a lever. We know Bangs have numbers, size, density, and now we know Shinsoo also have several statuses.

 

[kkck]

It means that regular people have regular Shinsoo, and special people have special Shinsoo with special qualities. My interpretation of this reads that: people with cool Shinsoo can host a Firefish and not be consumed by its heat; people with a hot Shinsoo can reach a temperature so High that Shinsoo itself gets burned; high tension Shinsoo can be shaped like an orb; and so on. Indeed, people with a low tension are unsuited for creating Orb shaped Shinsoo, Just like cool Shinsoo likely can't reach the "True Fire" temperature, Just like a small person can't be a Defender.

Imho, Miseng's Shinsoo has what Kallavan described few chapters ago as "explosion Power". Her Shinsoo bursts suddenly. Kallavan mentions this because his explosion Power is higher than Bam's, but Bam's infinite flow eventually overwhelms his explosion, by his description. I think this might be a requisite for the misterious Dansulsa position, that exerts sudden extreme pressure on one point, the one that Kurudan used remotely to squash Ren on 2F.

@kkck : re-reading Edwan's line, I get the feeling Qualities are like 'width', 'volume', 'density', or 'hardness' that materials have, bit the Shinsoo version of them. So "Reinforcement" or "Ice" doesn't seem like qualities. AA's Shinsoo is likely cool and hard, which are qualities, and the end result is an icelike Shinsoo. Figuring out one's Shinsoo qualities results in better uses of that Shinsoo, not necessarily 'different elements'. If Miseng has a High explosion Shinsoo, her applying It to reinforcement results in sudden, High powered moves, or maybe like Kallavan's: AoE dmg Shinsoo atks. Each Shinsoo quality combination results in a different effect, and may bê used in several ways, such as a rod can be used as a walking stick or as a lever. We know Bangs have numbers, size, density, and now we know Shinsoo also have several statuses.

To me the basic interpretetation of the explanation given is what makes the most sense to me. shapes refers to orbs, spears and whatnots. Qualities refer to ice or lightning. Where the explanation gets weird, either because the translation was bad or because SIU made it intentionally confusing, is when people actually show their shinsoo qualities. Because at times it looks like shinsoo qualities are everything (as in ice spear or lightning spear) or then you have eduan saying bam has to find the shape and qualities of shinsoo that suit him but bam only shows a shape (orb). The wiki has a different take on this also.. It says eduan's "shape" is spear and his qualities are ice and lightning.. Though to me this is not an accurate take because of how aguero learned his ice spear. He didn't learn spear and then ice, his deal was the ice spear.

 

[O_n_Sly]

To me the basic interpretetation of the explanation given is what makes the most sense to me. shapes refers to orbs, spears and whatnots. Qualities refer to ice or lightning. Where the explanation gets weird, either because the translation was bad or because SIU made it intentionally confusing, is when people actually show their shinsoo qualities. Because at times it looks like shinsoo qualities are everything (as in ice spear or lightning spear) or then you have eduan saying bam has to find the shape and qualities of shinsoo that suit him but bam only shows a shape (orb). The wiki has a different take on this also.. It says eduan's "shape" is spear and his qualities are ice and lightning.. Though to me this is not an accurate take because of how aguero learned his ice spear. He didn't learn spear and then ice, his deal was the ice spear.

As for the lightning spear didn’t SIU say it was only a Maschenny style technique? Only Ran and Mas have used it.

 

[kkck]

As for the lightning spear didn’t SIU say it was only a Maschenny style technique? Only Ran and Mas have used it.

nah, its fairly clear eduan has a lightning spear. And lightning spear is probably the most common koon shinsoo quality... It's the mascheny style that only mascheny related folk have access to.

 

[hblock]

Not even a little bit. Shinsoo qualities are still just techniques your shinsoo is suited for. And its a fact that miseng's shinsoo quality is a form of shinsoo reinforcement. The only thing that means is that relatively few people have shinsoo qualities but those shinsoo qualities as evidenced by the series can still be anything, including reinforcement. This doesn't necessarily mean other people can't learn those skills (though there are some you can't learn without the talent or contracts), it just means your shinsoo isn't specially good for it. As in, nothing we know suggests a rando can't learn how to make a needle out of shinsoo, it just won't be something his shinsoo is specially suited for.

Shinsu qualities and shapes were explicitly introduced as a special forms that only some special individuals can have, this is a fact and I can't go against it. Yeah, it doesn't mean other people can't learn these skills, but they've also to be born suited for that and they're rare and "special" exactly like KGs clans in Naruto (Hyuuga with the Byakugan, Uchihas with the Sharingan, ice release for Haku's clan, bones for Kimimaro's clan, etc), that's what Edahn explained.

And again, Miseng's quality isn't a form of body reinforcement, it's sudden shinsu "bursts", an explosive power that boosts the shinsu for a moment and applies for any kind of skills or do you think Misegn used some kind of "body" strenghtening to boost Endorsi's long ranged needles ?

 

[hblock]

But there is still nothing in the series that actually suggests each shinsoo quality/shape is unique to the user

Rather than unique to the user, I'd say unique to a certain special bloodlines. That's what Edan explained.

shinsoo boost: berserker

Miseng's quality is "intense bursts of shinsu" not "body strenghtening", Berserker mode is nothing more than the application of her shinsu quality on her body reinforcement.

Boosting the shinsu => stronger shinsu body strenghtening. AND it would have worked on any other shinsu control skill, it's just that Miseng can't manipulate the bangs or use complexe techniques like Baam.

Also, notice the "maybe you were born like that", what Miseng did is restricted to her lineage, it's not something the others can do.

Reinforcement isn't just one technique, there are variations and there are multiple instances of people using different kinds of them. Like bam at the hell train learning one from the GoGs.

These are just complex shinsu techniques that only requires natural talent to get a knack of it. It's not something hereditary but rather complex manoeuvres like the wave explosions, fast skip and so on.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

To me the basic interpretetation of the explanation given is what makes the most sense to me. shapes refers to orbs, spears and whatnots. Qualities refer to ice or lightning. Where the explanation gets weird, either because the translation was bad or because SIU made it intentionally confusing, is when people actually show their shinsoo qualities. Because at times it looks like shinsoo qualities are everything (as in ice spear or lightning spear) or then you have eduan saying bam has to find the shape and qualities of shinsoo that suit him but bam only shows a shape (orb). The wiki has a different take on this also.. It says eduan's "shape" is spear and his qualities are ice and lightning.. Though to me this is not an accurate take because of how aguero learned his ice spear. He didn't learn spear and then ice, his deal was the ice spear.

That's why I think I got the right interpretation: each person's Shinsoo has its own qualities and depending on them they are gonna have optimal uses.

Edwan's Shinsoo is better shaped as a Spear, Just like AA's, even tho AA got a freezing temperature Shinsoo and Edwan's likely electrical (maybe they aren't excludent traits tho). Bam's Shinsoo's best shape is that It a Sphere, and Edwan remarks that this is related to a High tension trait, one that V had as well. Doesn't mean it's Bam's only trait, It was clearly the one defining the shape, but not the only one. We still miss the reason why It is Black.

Either way, we know certain recipies of Shinsoo qualities result in Fire, Ice, Electricity, Rock and others. But It isn't like they are Qualities, they are the result of qualities, Just like materials have qualities too. The "shape" is likely How you best use that Shinsoo, based on its qualities.

I ask you, what is Bam's Shinsoo quality If Fire were a Quality? Black Hole? That was never cleared in any way, what we got is that his Shinsoo has High Tension, which is indeed a Quality. AA in fact didn't mention any quality except It was best used in a Shape of a Spear and the obvious "cold" that goes without saying. The appearance and the applications of Shinsoo are not Qualities. Having a "volatile" Shinsoo results in movement bursts when used as Reinforcement, which is an application not a Quality. The Quality is having explosion capacity, like Kallavan's does.

 

[kkck]

That's why I think I got the right interpretation: each person's Shinsoo has its own qualities and depending on them they are gonna have optimal uses.

Edwan's Shinsoo is better shaped as a Spear, Just like AA's, even tho AA got a freezing temperature Shinsoo and Edwan's likely electrical (maybe they aren't excludent traits tho). Bam's Shinsoo's best shape is that It a Sphere, and Edwan remarks that this is related to a High tension trait, one that V had as well. Doesn't mean it's Bam's only trait, It was clearly the one defining the shape, but not the only one. We still miss the reason why It is Black.

Either way, we know certain recipies of Shinsoo qualities result in Fire, Ice, Electricity, Rock and others. But It isn't like they are Qualities, they are the result of qualities, Just like materials have qualities too. The "shape" is likely How you best use that Shinsoo, based on its qualities.

I ask you, what is Bam's Shinsoo quality If Fire were a Quality? Black Hole? That was never cleared in any way, what we got is that his Shinsoo has High Tension, which is indeed a Quality. AA in fact didn't mention any quality except It was best used in a Shape of a Spear and the obvious "cold" that goes without saying. The appearance and the applications of Shinsoo are not Qualities. Having a "volatile" Shinsoo results in movement bursts when used as Reinforcement, which is an application not a Quality. The Quality is having explosion capacity, like Kallavan's does.

You are not wrong in that first line. That's kinda the point here. It doesn't mean qualities don't refer to ice, lightning and such.

Yeah but the point should be that each shinsoo quality as presented by the clicker is its own thing. As in, aguero's shinsoo quality is basically "ice spear". Its not that he got spear AND ice. Bam didn't get a black sphere, he just got a sphere. His shinsoo became black post revolution but we still don't know the significance of that type of shinsoo.

I think you misunderstand tension. Tension is not a shinsoo quality, tension is the ability to concentrate shinsoo into a bang. It's not even the concentration of shinsoo, just the ability to do so. Low tension means you have low capacity to pack shinsoo into a bang and high tension means you can pack a lot of shinsoo into a bang. Bam simply has a lot of talent for concentrating shinsoo. Eduan wanted to improve bam's tension before moving on to revolution but he also makes the point that to make an orb you need high tension... Basically its also a prerequisite to it (which plays out a tad weirdly with tension being both a prerequisite for bam's shinsoo quality and also the objective).

The point of this I would maintain is finding stuff your shinsoo is suited for. Which can be any shape, any quality and presumably most techniques. The only thing that confuses me is lighthouses... Since those seem to be complex computers. I suppose its technically not impossible for a shinsoo quality to be a lighthouse but it would be weird if your shinsoo is innately suited to making complex space bending computers... Or observers for that matter.

 

[Demonspeed]

That discussion reminded me why I got used to the term "Attribute" which was the fan translation at the time(and it's much better I think). IMO you guys complicate things too much with the quality and shape thing.

Some are better suited to Shinsoo of certain shapes, and some of them have other properties, but it doesn't mean that you need to have both. Baam simply got Orb, it doesn't mean he needs to develop a fire or lightning Orb better or that it's inferior or lacking.

Shinsoo skill is a talent in the first place, some can't even use Shinsoo for attacks if they don't fit their attributes. During the training AA said he only knew how to create Baangs and use Shinsoo Reinforcement.

Baam's black color is the effect of the powers inside him and the Thorn isn't it? Usually his attacks are pure like natural Shinsoo.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

I think It means differently and I'll phrase It differently so you guys can ser It in a yet different angle.

Think of Electricity: It has Tension/Voltage, Current, Resistance and Power, which derives from the other traits. It is different from measuring spatial objects, which have volume, density, hardness and such. Shinsoo is a fictional substance, It might as well have it's own characteristics to be measured. I think Qualities are the group of variables that define How a Shinsoo is. We can describe Bam as Brown hair, Golden eye, fair skin individual of average height, and same goes for Shinsoo qualities describing How a person's Shinsoo is.

If Orb was Bam's "Quality", then Evk has 2 qualities: Orb and Fire? Imo, It isn't it safest to say her Shinsoo has both high tension and High temperature, low hardness (High maleability) and High burst? There might be other traits to consider, but I think they don't exactly change. As in: Edwan's Shinsoo really is electrical, not several different 'elements' and Electricity is his favorite one. Turns out his Shinsoo traits make It electric naturally, and he fits that into different optimal uses. That's what I think happens.

Likewise AA's fire Shinsoo isn't his, his Shinsoo has a Very low temperature and using fire for him should be improbable without whatever that Fish is. And Jahad's Shinsoo should be naturally Golden always, not "his favorite element". The changing of Shinsoo color represents an artificial source of Shinsoo rather than the person's own Shinsoo.

Bam's Shinsoo turns White when transforming It using Shinworyu: the characteristics were actively changed. Turns red like Enryuu's when they using the Thorn, so It isn't simply his own either. And blue seems like the standard color before anyone lets their own Shinsoo characteristics flow.

 

[kkck]

That discussion reminded me why I got used to the term "Attribute" which was the fan translation at the time(and it's much better I think). IMO you guys complicate things too much with the quality and shape thing.

Some are better suited to Shinsoo of certain shapes, and some of them have other properties, but it doesn't mean that you need to have both. Baam simply got Orb, it doesn't mean he needs to develop a fire or lightning Orb better or that it's inferior or lacking.

Shinsoo skill is a talent in the first place, some can't even use Shinsoo for attacks if they don't fit their attributes. During the training AA said he only knew how to create Baangs and use Shinsoo Reinforcement.

Baam's black color is the effect of the powers inside him and the Thorn isn't it? Usually his attacks are pure like natural Shinsoo.

That is more or less how I see it, though if you use attribute then it makes sense to not really have to need a specific distinction between that and shapes... I have made the point that the context is basically to look for things your shinsoo is suited for.

I think aguero could barely even create one bang at the time.

The black shinsoo simply hasn't been explained. As far as I can tell its unrelated to the orb and it is something he draws out with revolution. The thorn makes red shinsoo at times, I don't think the black shinsoo is directly connected to the thorn.

 

[divica]

I think It means differently and I'll phrase It differently so you guys can ser It in a yet different angle.

Think of Electricity: It has Tension/Voltage, Current, Resistance and Power, which derives from the other traits. It is different from measuring spatial objects, which have volume, density, hardness and such. Shinsoo is a fictional substance, It might as well have it's own characteristics to be measured. I think Qualities are the group of variables that define How a Shinsoo is. We can describe Bam as Brown hair, Golden eye, fair skin individual of average height, and same goes for Shinsoo qualities describing How a person's Shinsoo is.

If Orb was Bam's "Quality", then Evk has 2 qualities: Orb and Fire? Imo, It isn't it safest to say her Shinsoo has both high tension and High temperature, low hardness (High maleability) and High burst? There might be other traits to consider, but I think they don't exactly change. As in: Edwan's Shinsoo really is electrical, not several different 'elements' and Electricity is his favorite one. Turns out his Shinsoo traits make It electric naturally, and he fits that into different optimal uses. That's what I think happens.

Likewise AA's fire Shinsoo isn't his, his Shinsoo has a Very low temperature and using fire for him should be improbable without whatever that Fish is. And Jahad's Shinsoo should be naturally Golden always, not "his favorite element". The changing of Shinsoo color represents an artificial source of Shinsoo rather than the person's own Shinsoo.

Bam's Shinsoo turns White when transforming It using Shinworyu: the characteristics were actively changed. Turns red like Enryuu's when they using the Thorn, so It isn't simply his own either. And blue seems like the standard color before anyone lets their own Shinsoo characteristics flow.

I might be wrong, but I think this doesn t make any sense.

People in Tog don t have shinsu inside them. The have the ability to manipulate shinsu in the ambient. A person doesn t have electrical shinsu. The person has a high affinity to transform shinsu into electricity with low efort/cost.

Basically people have techniques they can perform better due to their natural abilities. Like people with high tension have the ability to do better spheres than other people. For exemple, Eduan has the ability to do powerful ice or electrical spears with less effort than he can do other techniques. However, if he wanted he could do completly unrelated techniques to his spears but it would cost him more.

In reagards to color. Several items we have seen produce shinsu of a certain color. And at the end of the day the thorn is an object. Even the souls might be considered and object similar to an ignition weapon. I don t think we can conclude much about this...

That is more or less how I see it, though if you use attribute then it makes sense to not really have to need a specific distinction between that and shapes... I have made the point that the context is basically to look for things your shinsoo is suited for.

I think aguero could barely even create one bang at the time.

The black shinsoo simply hasn't been explained. As far as I can tell its unrelated to the orb and it is something he draws out with revolution. The thorn makes red shinsoo at times, I don't think the black shinsoo is directly connected to the thorn.

I think even if you use atributes there is a diference between shape and quality. Like if a person has an atribute of a spear then whatever shinsu quality they use to make a spear it will better than using that same quality to make another shape.

We kind of see this with baam using diferent types of shinsuu into his orb in order to maximize the result.
However, if a person uses a quality that is suited to them with a shape that is also suited to them then the result is much better than using only the shape or quality.
In a way I think this is what happened to baam against zahard when he started using the black shinsu. And in way is what makes more sense to have baam using his quality and shape to defeat zahard that was using his quality and shape.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

I might be wrong, but I think this doesn t make any sense.

People in Tog don t have shinsu inside them. The have the ability to manipulate shinsu in the ambient. A person doesn t have electrical shinsu. The person has a high affinity to transform shinsu into electricity with low efort/cost.

Basically people have techniques they can perform better due to their natural abilities. Like people with high tension have the ability to do better spheres than other people. For exemple, Eduan has the ability to do powerful ice or electrical spears with less effort than he can do other techniques. However, if he wanted he could do completly unrelated techniques to his spears but it would cost him more.

In reagards to color. Several items we have seen produce shinsu of a certain color. And at the end of the day the thorn is an object. Even the souls might be considered and object similar to an ignition weapon. I don t think we can conclude much about this...


I think even if you use atributes there is a diference between shape and quality. Like if a person has an atribute of a spear then whatever shinsu quality they use to make a spear it will better than using that same quality to make another shape.

We kind of see this with baam using diferent types of shinsuu into his orb in order to maximize the result.
However, if a person uses a quality that is suited to them with a shape that is also suited to them then the result is much better than using only the shape or quality.
In a way I think this is what happened to baam against zahard when he started using the black shinsu. And in way is what makes more sense to have baam using his quality and shape to defeat zahard that was using his quality and shape.

I think they have Shinsoo inside them, the so called "Shinsoo pool". Thinking on calories, we get calories and oxygen from the environment yes, but we store them inside our bodies and transform them into different substances as we live. Same might bê with Shinsoo, since It works like the Tower's oxygen.