Discussion Reachel the unknown unknown, a dreamer or a big trap?

[harold.sota]

The most controversial character of all ToG, Rachel, has shown different parts of here personality. From taking care of Bam, to abandoning him, luring Bam to follow here using his love for here and lately by using his anger. So my question and probably the ToG entire explanation is 'What is Reachel end game?'.

To answer the question it is needed to define Rachel, is she the ultimate villain of ToG, a separate character development trying to conquer the tower, or a poppet? Here character is so complex and I will be happy if SIU surprise me with a different alternative. I will try to give my three different conclusions/options regarding Rachel, and let me know what you think.


1) The unknown unknown (Bam ally)

As it is shown in the hidden floor from Jahad talking to his data clone, Jahad can see destiny and he try to control it (fate/destiny is a big thing on ToG). Until now, from what it is shown in the series, Jahad has no knowledge of Rachel existence, and she is trying to lure Bam into following here to conquer the tower. Meaning a irregular (Rachel) helping Bam to fight Jahad by driving his path from the distance (take revenge or realize Bam's parent dream), without being on Jahad radars. Bam every time has two decisions in front of him follow in to Jahad trap or make emotional decisions. So Jahads unknown unknown.

Why this is possible, and make sens? By being the story of Rachel and Bam (mentioned Rachel first, maybe the story is a Rachel telling narrative from the future).

• From the start, Rachel 'raise' Bam by telling him 'every thing' what he need to know'. She try to convince Bam to conquer the tower (probably Arlene instructing Rachel).
• Telling him about the stars, and giving here an alibi for the later events when she 'abandon' Bam to enter the tower and trying to fulfill the dream. After the crown game, she realize that Bam is not interest on the tower, so she lure him to follow here by using his emotions. This is shown over and over again.
• Why she need Emily? Also why she helps White? That has helped Bam to some extends.

2) A dreamer (ultimate villain)

This is shown over and over again Rachel is a girl with an innocent dream, seeing the real stars (I'm not sure what starts mean metaphorically spiking). In this version she has a pure heart, but wrong manners. But she can not enter the tower, maybe she has tried before, for this reason she use Bam to enter the tower. Probably she knows that Bam is destined to conquer the tower, and she probably know about the irregulars not being subject to the rules of the tower. So she decides to be the heroin. Later when she enter the tower by Bam help and understands from Headon (that she is not worthy to enter the tower), makes a pact with Headon, to use Bam to realize their goals, after using Bam to destroy Jahad and latter kill Bam. Probably the tower want Bam to change the tower (overthrow Jahad), and then throw him away as a thereat (he will be very powerful even for an administrator, a threat to the tower existence).

Why this is possible, and make sens?

• The first 'dot' is the pact that we know that Rachel and Headon has made (the terms are not displayed yet)
• Most solid indication about this is the Hwa Ryun attack on Rachel on the crown game. Hwa Ryun has only one specific goal: remove Rachel from Bam side (both of them want Bam to conquer the tower, we see an internal struggle).
• The second clue is during the last station battle, the tower helps Bam by sending Evankhell, and on top of that the last station administrator does not contain Evankhell or take any action, but only 'advise him'.
• The last piece of the puzzle is Prince weapon, that he gets from the hidden floor (Why it should be there? In a floor created by Jahad,). If Bam will overthrow Jahad and probably Prince will be the next king (it make sense a weak king, after Jahad). Prince in cooperation with Rachel will plan to kill Bam. It will make sense for Bam to be killed at the end, none the less he is borrow time.
• Also there is an other episode when Hwa Ryun said to Bam "You need to grow, in order to stand tall in front of here". How I interpret this is, your cause now is not strong enough to stand in front of a girl innocent dream (alibi) to see the stars.

3) A big trap (a victim)

This is just a obscure idea, but if Rachel from the start know about Bam situation and history, and doesn't kill him, and all the time push for Bam to follow here, even going through an emotional turmoil. Why? The throne??!!!

In my opinion the third option is being a poppet. Here is my theory: Arlene has being kept imprisoned or slave from Jahad (this will be a motive for Bam to continue the war). We know at least inside the tower she is immortal and not meet yet here son!!! How did Bam got out of the tower. Maybe an arrangement between Arlene and Jahad and the tower, to help here son to bee alive in exchange of here submission to him (it will make a lot of sense if Wangnan and Karaka are Bam's brothers .. lol, SIU has mentioned that Jahad has no children). A contract. Racel is Jahad pivot to Bam in order to control in some extend Bam's destiny? Or Arlene pivot to fulfill the dream or revenge. Or someone else poppet? FUG?

Why this is possible, and make sens?

• Then why she doesn't speak openly to Bam?
• Who is pulling the strings , or what is making here behaving in this way?
• On the entire series, we see a close cooperation with FUG's but then why is the Jahad symbol on the cave roof when Bam is located.
• Maybe she loves Bam and here hand is forced by the threat of the tower to kill Bam if she does not behave in a certain way. And here test (first floor test) is to break Bam (convictions)?

4) SIU surprise
I will love to see an other turn of events. Maybe not by the classic that we have seen so fare, that Bam's adversary becomes his ally.

So what do you think, what is Rachel end game?
And what it is behind Jahad decision to stop on advancing in the tower (His goal from the start was to be a King?!!).

 

[Demonspeed]

Rachel is the female protagonist and I see her as a villain. I can't see her as a victim since she had the opportunity to climb with Baam. But maybe, in a way, she can be considered a victim of "fate".

Rachel, thogurh her climb has gotten the enmity of AA, Androssi and Wangnan. These three really want her dead. I don't see her becoming an ally, but unless Baam "forgives" her again these two would never leave her alive(AA and Androssi),I can't imagine Wangnan sparing her if he has the opportunity. Not sure what will happen in the end but she is bound to do worse things in the future.

 

[kanekikid12]

I was just re-reading some of the chapters and it struck me the choice of words that Rachel so often uses. "This place is not for you to come up". Then there are other moments that clearly show Rachel does care about Bam to some degree. Rachel also wants to be the hero, hero for what? Who? I would imagine Bam/Arlene. It also seems Rachel is aware of the "destiny" that Bam is supposed to fulfill.

A thought I had today that fits in with these pieces of info is that Rachel views the destiny Bam is supposed to fulfill as a tragedy. She wants to be a hero and take on the burden of Bam's destiny herself and save him the suffering, making her a person with good intentions who cares deeply about Bam, and also more realistic; many people do things with good intentions and a desire to help, but ultimately are naive and only bring more pain with their foolish actions.

 

[harold.sota]

Rachel is the female protagonist and I see her as a villain. I can't see her as a victim since she had the opportunity to climb with Baam. But maybe, in a way, she can be considered a victim of "fate".

Rachel, thorough her climb has gotten the enmity of AA, Androssi and Wangnan. These three really want her dead. I don't see her becoming an ally, but unless Baam "forgives" her again these two would never leave her alive(AA and Androssi),I can't imagine Wangnan sparing her if he has the opportunity. Not sure what will happen in the end but she is bound to do worse things in the future.

Yes, Rachel is the female protagonist, also until the last station arc she was the main antagonist (now Jahad is the visible threat). But I can not stop thinking of the opening of ToG (the first chapter) we see every major character but not Rachel. We know that was a 'disagreement' between Bam and Rachel before entering the tower, and Rachel is driving Bam in a way or an other. And most importantly at the beginning Bam is a 'stalker'...(sorry to all Bam's fans ) or this is what it is reveled. Think about Bam hair cut (in the cave Bam has long hair, and different cloths), or Headon taking advantage of Rachel dream (whatever the dream is, the stars version or the heroin version)....

The kill attempt to AA it fit more on Rachel intention, killing AA it will make sure that Bam pursue here, and yes she is evil (here manners), but Is't also true that Bam or the other main characters can't complain from a moral point of view.
Bam is accepting help from White (mass murderer)...
AA just a fallen apple (from 10 families point of view)...
Rak at the beginning says that he eat his prays to make him stronger...

None of above is important, this is the tower of desire... fluid alliances, hits under the belt are allowed, as much as it is needed.
If Wangnan has to fulfill his dream... it will not be a problem to turn his back to Bam.

In my opinion and what I'm mostly my interest and is how story line and character development will continue.
The war part we know... Bam will pull a rabbit out of a hat in battles, and most of them will be won.

 

[TheLastMartian]

I think she is gonna be a sort of rival to Bam.

 

[Demonspeed]

Yes, Rachel is the female protagonist, also until the last station arc she was the main antagonist (now Jahad is the visible threat). But I can not stop thinking of the opening of ToG (the first chapter) we see every major character but not Rachel. We know that was a 'disagreement' between Bam and Rachel before entering the tower, and Rachel is driving Bam in a way or an other. And most importantly at the beginning Bam is a 'stalker'...(sorry to all Bam's fans ) or this is what it is reveled. Think about Bam hair cut (in the cave Bam has long hair, and different cloths), or Headon taking advantage of Rachel dream (whatever the dream is, the stars version or the heroin version)....

The kill attempt to AA it fit more on Rachel intention, killing AA it will make sure that Bam pursue here, and yes she is evil (here manners), but Is't also true that Bam or the other main characters can't complain from a moral point of view.
Bam is accepting help from White (mass murderer)...
AA just a fallen apple (from 10 families point of view)...
Rak at the beginning says that he eat his prays to make him stronger...

None of above is important, this is the tower of desire... fluid alliances, hits under the belt are allowed, as much as it is needed.
If Wangnan has to fulfill his dream... it will not be a problem to turn his back to Bam.

In my opinion and what I'm mostly my interest and is how story line and character development will continue.
The war part we know... Bam will pull a rabbit out of a hat in battles, and most of them will be won.

Rachel claimed that she didn't want Baam to pursue here, but the last time they met she said that with the "Arlen leaks" now he has a reason to keep pursuingg. My guess is that deep down she likes it because it makes her feel important. But I disagree with what you said about her intention behind the AA's kill attempt. She hates his guts since the Dallar Show.

And they definitely have the right to complain, there are betrayals here and there but Baam's friendspick a side and stick to it, they help each others during their climb. Baam's friends would never kill each others to climb higher. Rachel can of course do whatever she wants to climb but she shouldn't expect sympathy from the people she betrayed.

She keeps using people and betray them so of course people are going to hate her for personal reasons. Yura is her only "true" companion. It seems that she is working with Akraptor's daughter right now, the daughter of the man that she killed.

I think she is gonna be a sort of rival to Bam.

They are already rivals though?

 

[TheLastMartian]

They are already rivals though?

Not really, rival implies that if they were to fight it wouldn't be 1 sided.

 

[harold.sota]

Well, I will start with the big guns "Rachel betrayals", I have to disagree big this time!

And they definitely have the right to complain, there are betrayals here and there but Baam's friendspick a side and stick to it, they help each others during their climb. Baam's friends would never kill each others to climb higher. Rachel can of course do whatever she wants to climb but she shouldn't expect sympathy from the people she betrayed.

She keeps using people and betray them so of course people are going to hate her for personal reasons. Yura is her only "true" companion. It seems that she is working with Akraptor's daughter right now, the daughter of the man that she killed.

Did she?? As I remember she never took an oath...
Starting from Bam, as it is reviled lately in the conversation between Evankhell and Jahad forces in the test floor, Yu Han Sung (F.U.G) had to report to Jahad (his authorities) for the irregular. Rachel helped with Bam's death staging... keeping him hidden from Jahad, and probably saving his life (or hers... , or booths ) by sending him to F.U.G. Yes she clearly want Bam to follow her, but this is not a betray more and more she is standing in front of him as consequence of her actions. If in the end this is Bam's fortune... meaning Rachel/F.U.G./Ha Yuri protection. He was and still is a small fish that can be eaten at any time.

AA team slaughter..., arguably, it was not her team... . Still AA was using the team, he framed some of the team members to follow him. We do not know to what extends was Rachel part on one side and Karaka and F.U.G elders on the other side on the slaughter. Ops.. AA is cooperating with Karaka, one of the persons behind the slaughter. You see what I mean by moral standards, no one can complain.

So, yes, she is using people, but I see here more a schemer or a manipulative person rather than a betrayer (at least from what we have read so fare).
One point, I want to make is that in my opinion she is the most humanly character and best portrayed in the entire ToG. She does not have any special skill or ability, and yet, she fights to overcome the boundaries of here situation. Until now, here actions are more of a parasite, when booth the host/Bam and the parasite/Rachel are benefiting. Is not a easy coexistence, but necessary.

The last point that I want to make on the topic, is that the villain part is very weak. ToG behind the scenes is more of a drama or tragedy, rather that a black and white that is a bullsheet. The hero of one side is the villain of the other side... and Rachel is on the middle... as an insignificant parasite, she defines herself in the little world of her. I'd preferred that SIU had covered as a multicharacter story, but to late.. at last we need more chapters covering Rachel. I think we deserve it

My guess is that deep down she likes it because it makes her feel important. But I disagree with what you said about her intention behind the AA's kill attempt. She hates his guts since the Dallar Show.

In my opinion, she hates AA before the Dallar Show. She has understood that AA is a obstacle on here ways to Bam, he is very perceptive and intelligent, before that, when they were on the same team (it is shown in some chapter, do not remember now the exact chapter). The the Dallar Show, shows more the emotional turmoil of here, and the "fate" game with AA, displays the nativity, delusion, and here believes...

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 24, 2020 ---

I was just re-reading some of the chapters and it struck me the choice of words that Rachel so often uses. "This place is not for you to come up". Then there are other moments that clearly show Rachel does care about Bam to some degree. Rachel also wants to be the hero, hero for what? Who? I would imagine Bam/Arlene. It also seems Rachel is aware of the "destiny" that Bam is supposed to fulfill.

A thought I had today that fits in with these pieces of info is that Rachel views the destiny Bam is supposed to fulfill as a tragedy. She wants to be a hero and take on the burden of Bam's destiny herself and save him the suffering, making her a person with good intentions who cares deeply about Bam, and also more realistic; many people do things with good intentions and a desire to help, but ultimately are naive and only bring more pain with their foolish actions.

It took me by surprise the "Don Quixote" version of yours, this is why I pressed the like button. Well, for the heroine part, I have an idea, probably a crap idea, anyway I'm writing it .

When I firstly read the first chapters, and sow the picture of Rachel on Bam's cave hole on the roof, I thought that Rachel was there to kill Bam... and I made sens to me, since Bam was there for a long period (probably even SIU can not explain how he did survive without food and water ). And an other thing that did not make sens to me at the time was: ok, if she was not there to kill Bam, then why she did not help him to get out... Lately, I thought, maybe she was a servant lady in some reach man house and she has compassion for Bam, but was afraid to help in the escape.

Being servant lady (not the reach man house), is more realistic as Rachel mentioned that she is used to cleaning.

So my crap idea, is that, as a servant she had this dream of freedom, and living a life of adventure as being not at the bottom, but the one that helps people from the ruler. And also the promised hero it is mentioned in the prophecy of the visitor to Dowon and Cha before the heroes where sealed.

So, physiologically, Rachel can be a frustrated servant lady that is seeking to fulfill here ego. Yes, very dark
For "This place is not for you to come up", I do not have an explication
Well, sorry for the long text

 

[Liandree]

it is hard to know who she realy is....funy is that why Jahad right hand helped Rachel? only one weak point for Bam maybe?(he dosnt know that he wil create new weak points after)....and second I have bad feeling that she dosnt are the one who helped Bam go up but someone from top 10 or maybe he will start after this battle who know

 

[Demonspeed]

it is hard to know who she realy is....funy is that why Jahad right hand helped Rachel? only one weak point for Bam maybe?(he dosnt know that he wil create new weak points after)....and second I have bad feeling that she dosnt are the one who helped Bam go up but someone from top 10 or maybe he will start after this battle who know

His right hand? Are you talking about Headon? I don't think he qualifies. The closest character to qualify as his right hand right now is probably Adori.

 

[Mizaistorm]

if rachel is a heroine that is trying to prevent a tragedy,in only one ocasion did she show remorse about her actions.she is cold blooded.
for most of the journey weither when she met headon or facing baam.her reason is always the same she is cursed by fate and is doing all she could to achieve her purpose.
but for someone who claim to fight fate rachel is the most resigned to it.she doesnt believe in her skill nor does work on her craft and for the entire journey is being carried up the tower thanks to her relationship with baam.
on the other hand we have someone like prince or that young girl that use observer they cant be much stronger than rachel but they work their hardest they dont scheme or betray their allies and in general decent people.
Rachel is a contradiction on one hand she doesnt believe in fate and want to acheieve her dream on the other hand she base her entire action on someone else fate.
i dont understand the idea that rachel is the most human out of the character someone who live by the quote the end justify the means.the charactaristic most animalistic and slefish arent what seperate humans out of the rest of the species.but one should look at virtures that other creatures lack.

i dont know where her journey is headed but she wont reach the stars.that i dont doubt.acheieving goals is not all about will to power because that is shared with those who strive for it too.but predisposition sacrifice and luck...that what determine who acheive.

in the same categorie of worst characters i put wangnan and rachel together.
people who live in delusions of grandeur.both are carried on baam wings one got a magic and the other wait to be seen.

 

[requiem46]

The other day I was thinking that Rachel's "I'm sorry you must die here" moment was brutal because we had been seeing Rachel through the eyes of Bam, let's say, as Bam's angel. So of course she suddenly throwing him down the cliff was a total bitch move.But now, after a loooong time:

-We know Bam was sort of destined to fight Zahard, and Zahard would have had him dead as hell as soon as he knew who he was (the war has started because of Bam's existence)

-We know Fug's big boss used to be a lieutenant of Viole, Bam's father. Conveniently Fug is opposed to Zahard, so they and Bam have a common goal.

-We know of the crazy prophecy by Arlene, and we know Rachel knows Arlene.

So ultimately, dropping Bam "to die" could have been the means to put Bam at the best place for him to be regarding his destiny to kill Zahard. Rachel is definitely acting like a bitch, but I think her actions are actually helping Bam (be that her goal or not). Hell, even trying to kill khun ended up giving him access to his latent ice power and later to the fire fish hack power!

 

[Demonspeed]

The other day I was thinking that Rachel's "I'm sorry you must die here" moment was brutal because we had been seeing Rachel through the eyes of Bam, let's say, as Bam's angel. So of course she suddenly throwing him down the cliff was a total bitch move.But now, after a loooong time:

-We know Bam was sort of destined to fight Zahard, and Zahard would have had him dead as hell as soon as he knew who he was (the war has started because of Bam's existence)

-We know Fug's big boss used to be a lieutenant of Viole, Bam's father. Conveniently Fug is opposed to Zahard, so they and Bam have a common goal.

-We know of the crazy prophecy by Arlene, and we know Rachel knows Arlene.

So ultimately, dropping Bam "to die" could have been the means to put Bam at the best place for him to be regarding his destiny to kill Zahard. Rachel is definitely acting like a bitch, but I think her actions are actually helping Bam (be that her goal or not). Hell, even trying to kill khun ended up giving him access to his latent ice power and later to the fire fish hack power!

That's the whole "Everyone has a certain, unavoidable destiny" VS "Create your own fate" which was a topic in the FoD arc.

 

[Ripcord]

Rachel claimed that she didn't want Baam to pursue here, but the last time they met she said that with the "Arlen leaks" now he has a reason to keep pursuingg. My guess is that deep down she likes it because it makes her feel important. But I disagree with what you said about her intention behind the AA's kill attempt. She hates his guts since the Dallar Show.

And they definitely have the right to complain, there are betrayals here and there but Baam's friendspick a side and stick to it, they help each others during their climb. Baam's friends would never kill each others to climb higher. Rachel can of course do whatever she wants to climb but she shouldn't expect sympathy from the people she betrayed.

She keeps using people and betray them so of course people are going to hate her for personal reasons. Yura is her only "true" companion. It seems that she is working with Akraptor's daughter right now, the daughter of the man that she killed.



They are already rivals though?

Yeah but Rachel even betrayed Yura a bit at the end of the hidden floor arc. Yura wasn’t too happy that Rachel made choices for just herself (appearance) that put Yura in a bad spot.

I don’t know if SIU plans to use this in the future but I don’t think Yura is 100% with Rachel anymore.

 

[Demonspeed]

Yeah but Rachel even betrayed Yura a bit at the end of the hidden floor arc. Yura wasn’t too happy that Rachel made choices for just herself (appearance) that put Yura in a bad spot.

I don’t know if SIU plans to use this in the future but I don’t think Yura is 100% with Rachel anymore.

I wouldn't say that this was a betrayal, they just had different opinion. How did it put Yura in a bad spot? I know Yura didn't like it but it didn't endanger Yura. Maybe I need to reread.

I think it boils down to this in the end: Yura has a higher opinion of Rachel than Rachel herself.

 

[King Dryst]

I wouldn't say that this was a betrayal, they just had different opinion. How did it put Yura in a bad spot? I know Yura didn't like it but it didn't endanger Yura. Maybe I need to reread.

I think it boils down to this in the end: Yura has a higher opinion of Rachel than Rachel herself.

It didn't endanger her, per se, but it was Rachel cutting a deal to help the being who drove Yura's mother to suicide just so that she could have a chance to look pretty. I don't think it's really changed Yura's loyalties, though. She was still willing to throw herself in front of a runaway train by attacking a pissed off Baam after the Hidden Floor to vainly try and protect Rachel from him. I was honestly surprised (and disappointed, if I'm being honest) that Baam didn't eviscerate her for that, considering the state of mind he was in.

 

[Ripcord]

I wouldn't say that this was a betrayal, they just had different opinion. How did it put Yura in a bad spot? I know Yura didn't like it but it didn't endanger Yura. Maybe I need to reread.

I think it boils down to this in the end: Yura has a higher opinion of Rachel than Rachel herself.

This is my interpretation, so probably Yura is not aware of it.

I think Hwang had to lure the twin counterpart to the hidden floor some day to replace her. Meaning Yura would be stuck in the hidden floor and Hwang would replace her outside. I don’t otherwise see why Hwang had to capture Yura in order to execute the plan.

I think the situation gave Yura doubts. These doubts will (I hope) result in her not supporting Rachel in the future.

 

[Mizaistorm]

trying really hard to find excuses for rachel when she hated seeing baam fight that monster in front of headon and succed while she failed miserabely.she saod you are not supposed to be here and this is my destiny.time and time again.rachel has delusion of grandeur.

what about that time when she pretended to be a cripple and rode on the back of khun team .then attacked someone and crippeled him who was trying to guard her because she is petty and couldnt accept the truth.

dont try to find anything reddemble about rachel.you wont find any.

she is trying to accomplish arlen dream probably because arlen saw her as an inferior creature compared to baam.

the only reason she is relevant just like wangnan is their association with great figures.baam and zahard they dont possesse any oustanding qualities or merit to climb.

their is no such thing as fighting destiny when you get help at every corner by higher forces.