Discussion Shinsoo manipulation and properties

[Jack Van Burace]

I mean that perhaps some people have more talent for multiple bangs than packing more Shinsoo on the same one.

 

[kkck]

I mean that perhaps some people have more talent for multiple bangs than packing more Shinsoo on the same one.

That seems pretty likely. We know that eurasia was the best wave controller among the great warriors but V had the highest tension among them. So its pretty likely that eurasia had more bangs available than V.

 

[Demonspeed]

That seems pretty likely. We know that eurasia was the best wave controller among the great warriors but V had the highest tension among them. So its pretty likely that eurasia had more bangs available than V.

I don't think it's the same thing. V had the best Tension but it doesn't mean he was better than Eurasia when it came to creating a single Baang of Shinsoo. Tension is how much power you can pack into a Baang but there are other aspects like Myun and Soo.

 

[kkck]

I don't think it's the same thing. V had the best Tension but it doesn't mean he was better than Eurasia when it came to creating a single Baang of Shinsoo. Tension is how much power you can pack into a Baang but there are other aspects like Myun and Soo.

I don't think what you said here is at odds with what I said. My post only said that v had higher tension than blosom but eurasia probably had more bangs.

One point I will stress is that bangs do not have tension. Tension isn't the power in a bang, tension is the ability to pack power in a bang. People have tension, not bangs. Now, how I interpret this is... that tension is the ability to increase soo within a bang. Then comes myun but I am not sure of how exactly it plays into this. If you have a bang, and make it half its size then it's soo would be higher which sounds like something you can achieve with high tension. You can also achieve high soo via simply packing more shinsoo into a bang of a given size. Both sound like applications of tension. Eurasia would still have multiple ways to surpass V bang wise. Either by larger bangs with less soo than V's or with more bangs than V can make. Or both.

 

[Demonspeed]

I don't think what you said here is at odds with what I said. My post only said that v had higher tension than blosom but eurasia probably had more bangs.

One point I will stress is that bangs do not have tension. Tension isn't the power in a bang, tension is the ability to pack power in a bang. People have tension, not bangs. Now, how I interpret this is... that tension is the ability to increase soo within a bang. Then comes myun but I am not sure of how exactly it plays into this. If you have a bang, and make it half its size then it's soo would be higher which sounds like something you can achieve with high tension. You can also achieve high soo via simply packing more shinsoo into a bang of a given size. Both sound like applications of tension. Eurasia would still have multiple ways to surpass V bang wise. Either by larger bangs with less soo than V's or with more bangs than V can make. Or both.

But Tension has been described as the amount of power you can put in a Baang, and Orbs maximize Shinsoo attacks. All Baangs have some amount of power or they wouldn't affect people at all.

My point was that even though V had better Tension, the Myun and Soo for his Baangs were probably inferior to Blosom.

 

[kkck]

But Tension has been described as the amount of power you can put in a Baang, and Orbs maximize Shinsoo attacks. All Baangs have some amount of power or they wouldn't affect people at all.

My point was that even though V had better Tension, the Myun and Soo for his Baangs were probably inferior to Blosom.

The wording in the chapter is that its the ability to put more power into a bang. Mechanics wise I would still make the point that this is basically manipulating myu and soo (specially soo). The way I see it, having better myun and soo would specifically mean that blosom's tension was higher than V's. Since soo is basically shinsoo concentration and tension is basically about increasing it. As a wave controller based on what we currently know of the position (which is not as much as we'd like) it makes sense that bloosom would have surpassed V in terms of myu (say, her bangs were not as concentrated but where bigger) and in terms of amount of bangs which for wave controllers is a pretty big deal.

 

[divica]

I didn't say shinsoo is a bang though. Bangs are simply an unit of shinsoo so to speak. And yeah, people can combine all the bangs they can into a single bang... dunno what your point is here.

As far as I can tell, every person having a fixed maxed amount of shinsoo they can control at a time is pretty much written in stone, mechanics wise. As much for bam as zahard. As in, even zahard has a limit regarding how much shinsoo he can gather via however many bangs and control. Maybe this will change in the future but as of now there isn't evidence of it. The point of the loop however is not that its easier, its that it allows bam to attack enemies with more than his current max shinsoo. Since it doesn't take space from the max amount of shinsoo he can control and his shinsoo control doesn't diminish with more shinsoo.

And... that is accurate but not quite the reason the loop is useless to other people. its not impossible for others to create a self sustaining loop. That's just highly compressed shinsoo. but at some point the shinsoo control reduction is simply too costly for this to be beneficial.

I don't think the EoB actually teaches people how to fight. And if anything, kallavan was worthy of it because he was already tough. If you look at the bits we see of the fight between jinsung and kallavan in the past, its fairly clear that kallavan's body was already monstrously strong. As far as I can tell kallavan's body is his own, the EoB in turns provides him with a stream of layered explosions to attack with. At its best my assumption is that this is basically explosions thrown at people with the full might of kallavan's reinforced ridiculously strong body.

My point was that the amount of shinsu a person can control isn t related to the number of bangs they can use. That is just one factor. If a person has more myun or soo then they can manipulate more shinsu than other people with the same number of bangs or even more bangs...

As far as I can tell, every person having a fixed maxed amount of shinsoo they can control at a time is pretty much written in stone, mechanics wise. As much for bam as zahard. As in, even zahard has a limit regarding how much shinsoo he can gather via however many bangs and control.

Here you are confusing things. One thing is the amount of shinsu a person can control in an instant and another thing is the amount of shinsu they can gather. Otherwise the loop would be useless because baam would be using more shinsu than he can control...

The point of the loop however is not that its easier, its that it allows bam to attack enemies with more than his current max shinsoo. Since it doesn't take space from the max amount of shinsoo he can control and his shinsoo control doesn't diminish with more shinsoo.

Again. I think you are mixing gathering and controloing. The loop doesn t affect the amount of shinsu he can gather in an instant but if affects the amount of shinsu he can control in an instant.


If we agree that the lopp is just storing shinsu then it means a person is constantly controling the stored shinsu so that it doesn t escape. When the stored shinsu reaches their max amount of shinsu they can control they have to stop the loop. A person like baam that can control infinite shinsu has no problem using this technique. For other people it would only be usefull if they can control a much higher quantity of shinsu than they can gather in an instant from the atmosphere....

I don't think the EoB actually teaches people how to fight. And if anything, kallavan was worthy of it because he was already tough. If you look at the bits we see of the fight between jinsung and kallavan in the past, its fairly clear that kallavan's body was already monstrously strong. As far as I can tell kallavan's body is his own, the EoB in turns provides him with a stream of layered explosions to attack with. At its best my assumption is that this is basically explosions thrown at people with the full might of kallavan's reinforced ridiculously strong body.

If you see the fight jinsug had with kalla after he absorbed the EoB he says kalla completly changed. His stance, shinsu flow, mentality and things like that. And kalla having iniatially a tough body just shows he was compatible with the EoB.
In adition, the explosions you are talking about are kalla's technique. If you want to point something strange besides his tough body it would be his shinsu. It has a very peculiar look...

Besides, don t forget that kalla needed something to surpress phisically jinsung. Some external factor must have toughened his body and learning the apex of fighting has that effect in ToG.

 

[kkck]

My point was that the amount of shinsu a person can control isn t related to the number of bangs they can use. That is just one factor. If a person has more myun or soo then they can manipulate more shinsu than other people with the same number of bangs or even more bangs...


Here you are confusing things. One thing is the amount of shinsu a person can control in an instant and another thing is the amount of shinsu they can gather. Otherwise the loop would be useless because baam would be using more shinsu than he can control...


Again. I think you are mixing gathering and controloing. The loop doesn t affect the amount of shinsu he can gather in an instant but if affects the amount of shinsu he can control in an instant.


If we agree that the lopp is just storing shinsu then it means a person is constantly controling the stored shinsu so that it doesn t escape. When the stored shinsu reaches their max amount of shinsu they can control they have to stop the loop. A person like baam that can control infinite shinsu has no problem using this technique. For other people it would only be usefull if they can control a much higher quantity of shinsu than they can gather in an instant from the atmosphere....


If you see the fight jinsug had with kalla after he absorbed the EoB he says kalla completly changed. His stance, shinsu flow, mentality and things like that. And kalla having iniatially a tough body just shows he was compatible with the EoB.
In adition, the explosions you are talking about are kalla's technique. If you want to point something strange besides his tough body it would be his shinsu. It has a very peculiar look...

Besides, don t forget that kalla needed something to surpress phisically jinsung. Some external factor must have toughened his body and learning the apex of fighting has that effect in ToG.

Generally I make the point that the ma amount of shinsoo one can control is basically all their bangs at their maximum size and that adjusted to the shinsoo control they have with that many bangs. It's a highly personal definition and the amount of bangs isn't the end all of it.

Yeah but, in bam's case its the same. Because the amount of shinsoo he can control does not diminish with the amount. So his max amount of shinsoo he can control in an instant is all his bangs. For people with lesser blessings things are more complicated. And... yeah, the exact point of the loop is that it IS more shinsoo than bam can control. It's shinsoo vastly beyond his current limit. And its the reason why the techniques he has shown so far are simply him hosing down enemies with sheer raw power. He just opens the tap and closes it.

Well, no, the loop does not interphere with bam's shinsoo control in any ways. He basically has available all of his bangs AND on top of that he can hose down his enemies. It's brokenly convenient.

The loop is just stored shinsoo BUT it doesn't require bam to constantly control it. It's not that bam can control infinite shinsoo (he has a max), the issue is bam not needing to further control the loop. The loop is self sustaining so it doesn't take from the shinsoo bam can control at a time and since bam does not experience a loss in shinsoo control from more shinsoo he can simply keep storing more.

Kallavan probably grew physically mightier since he absorbed the EoB but the important thing to consider here is that a strong body was kallavan's trait originally. As for his shinsoo, yeah, that's the EoB. Its powers seem for the most part explosion related... Whatever that means.

 

[divica]

Yeah but, in bam's case its the same. Because the amount of shinsoo he can control does not diminish with the amount. So his max amount of shinsoo he can control in an instant is all his bangs. For people with lesser blessings things are more complicated. And... yeah, the exact point of the loop is that it IS more shinsoo than bam can control. It's shinsoo vastly beyond his current limit. And its the reason why the techniques he has shown so far are simply him hosing down enemies with sheer raw power. He just opens the tap and closes it.

To me this makes absolutly zero sense.
If the loop gives baam more shinsu that he can control then it would be useless because by definition he would not be able to use the shinsu in the loop to do anyhting.
And baam doesn t use techniques with sheer raw power. In one of the last chapters kalla says that the technique baam used isn t that strong, but it resisted his defense because it had kind of inifnite shinsu sustaining it.

Honestly, after Reading the wiki about the shinsu loop I am not even sure if I misinterpreted the technique.

Yu Han Sung came up with the idea to use this incredible natural gift of Baam, for him to create a Shinsu loop that "runs non-stop" so Baam can store up even more power. Such an unlimited, non-stop running storing process will keep increasing the density of Shinsu because it will be pressured against each other countless times. There won't be much Shinsu at first glance, but the power of Shinsu stored in a loop process like that would be like a "sea of Shinsu". The destructive power of Shinsu like that would almost be "infinite". The power over the Shinsu loop that Baam currently controls now can slash or cut any tall building in half and kill strong regulars at Akryung's level

After Reading this I get the idea that the objective is to change the nature of baam's shinsu and make it more dense and powerful. At some point it will be so dense that it will seem infinite when being used. At least I think this is what the guys from the wiki meant to say...

Well, no, the loop does not interphere with bam's shinsoo control in any ways. He basically has available all of his bangs AND on top of that he can hose down his enemies. It's brokenly convenient.

The loop is just stored shinsoo BUT it doesn't require bam to constantly control it. It's not that bam can control infinite shinsoo (he has a max), the issue is bam not needing to further control the loop. The loop is self sustaining so it doesn't take from the shinsoo bam can control at a time and since bam does not experience a loss in shinsoo control from more shinsoo he can simply keep storing more

This doesn t make sense. We know baam trained in order to be able to mantain the loop at all times so mantaining the loop must afect his ability to control shinsu. And he has to control the shinsu at all times, I have no idea why you think otherwise… We even had a flashback of baam training the technique and him losing momentarily control of the loop and the technique ending...

Also, you are contradicting yourself. If baam used all his bang at max capability acording to your logic and definitions he couldn t use the shinsu from the loop because he would be controling more shinsu than he is capable (the shinsu from the loop has no where to go acording to you).

Kallavan probably grew physically mightier since he absorbed the EoB but the important thing to consider here is that a strong body was kallavan's trait originally. As for his shinsoo, yeah, that's the EoB. Its powers seem for the most part explosion related... Whatever that means.

The explsion part seems to be kallavan combat technique. Otherwise siu would have said something like EoB skill bomber as he did with the thorn when baam was fighting zahard.
I think you are giving too much importance to kalla initial traits. No matter how strong his body was, he doesn t become of the strongest bodies in the tower without some really strong external factor. Dont forget that any child from the 10 families has super strong bodies. In order for him to become much stronger than jinsung it must be the efect of the EoB. And the only way it can upgrade his phisical stats is by showing kalla the appex of fighting. Even baam's last teatcher talks to baam how impoving his fighting abilities wil make him stronger, faster, etc...
I agree that the EoB must also have some effect on his shinsu, but it bigest efect must come from teaching the user the apex of fighting. It even makes sense if we use the fan translation essence of fighting. We are talking about a dude that was a master fighter that transformed himself into a gem. It makes sense that the objective is to make the user achieve the apex of fighting like the initial dude. And in ToG that kind of thing improves the body of the person.

ps. IT would be interesting to see if another character that achieves the apex of fighting getsa power similar to the EoB that kalla has.

 

[kkck]

To me this makes absolutly zero sense.
If the loop gives baam more shinsu that he can control then it would be useless because by definition he would not be able to use the shinsu in the loop to do anyhting.
And baam doesn t use techniques with sheer raw power. In one of the last chapters kalla says that the technique baam used isn t that strong, but it resisted his defense because it had kind of inifnite shinsu sustaining it.

Honestly, after Reading the wiki about the shinsu loop I am not even sure if I misinterpreted the technique.


After Reading this I get the idea that the objective is to change the nature of baam's shinsu and make it more dense and powerful. At some point it will be so dense that it will seem infinite when being used. At least I think this is what the guys from the wiki meant to say...


This doesn t make sense. We know baam trained in order to be able to mantain the loop at all times so mantaining the loop must afect his ability to control shinsu. And he has to control the shinsu at all times, I have no idea why you think otherwise… We even had a flashback of baam training the technique and him losing momentarily control of the loop and the technique ending...

Also, you are contradicting yourself. If baam used all his bang at max capability acording to your logic and definitions he couldn t use the shinsu from the loop because he would be controling more shinsu than he is capable (the shinsu from the loop has no where to go acording to you).


The explsion part seems to be kallavan combat technique. Otherwise siu would have said something like EoB skill bomber as he did with the thorn when baam was fighting zahard.
I think you are giving too much importance to kalla initial traits. No matter how strong his body was, he doesn t become of the strongest bodies in the tower without some really strong external factor. Dont forget that any child from the 10 families has super strong bodies. In order for him to become much stronger than jinsung it must be the efect of the EoB. And the only way it can upgrade his phisical stats is by showing kalla the appex of fighting. Even baam's last teatcher talks to baam how impoving his fighting abilities wil make him stronger, faster, etc...
I agree that the EoB must also have some effect on his shinsu, but it bigest efect must come from teaching the user the apex of fighting. It even makes sense if we use the fan translation essence of fighting. We are talking about a dude that was a master fighter that transformed himself into a gem. It makes sense that the objective is to make the user achieve the apex of fighting like the initial dude. And in ToG that king of thing improves the body of the person.

But... as I have pointed out before, so far bam doesn't do much of anything with the loop. His techniques with it so far are just releasing streams of energy from it. Hence why I compare it to basically hosing down the enemy.

The loop does make the shinsoo immensely dense and powerful. It's basically UHS's explanation of the technique. The point of the technique is for bam to carry around an figuratively pocket sized ocean.

Bam's shinsoo control is not affected affected by the amount of shinsoo. Hence why he can endlessly pump shinsoo into the loop. How I interpreted the bit there is that bam was still learning how to create the loop. But the loop itself is self sustaining. As in, it requires no further effort on bam's part. if it did then the technique would be pointless.

The explosion techniques have EoB in the name though. And the bomber thing is a theme among them. The explosions are definitely pretty much THE power. And yeah, other 10 family members have strong bodies. And princesses to. But strong bodies are a genetic thing. And we know from jinsung's explanation that kallavan is the result of a long line of rankers basically going at it breeding to produce increasingly stronger rankers. 10 family members don't have a monopoly on strong genetics.

 

[divica]

But... as I have pointed out before, so far bam doesn't do much of anything with the loop. His techniques with it so far are just releasing streams of energy from it. Hence why I compare it to basically hosing down the enemy.

The loop does make the shinsoo immensely dense and powerful. It's basically UHS's explanation of the technique. The point of the technique is for bam to carry around an figuratively pocket sized ocean.

Bam's shinsoo control is not affected affected by the amount of shinsoo. Hence why he can endlessly pump shinsoo into the loop. How I interpreted the bit there is that bam was still learning how to create the loop. But the loop itself is self sustaining. As in, it requires no further effort on bam's part. if it did then the technique would be pointless

But those techniques are hansung techniques. If you check his abilities you will see that most of the techniques you are refering have the same name as the techniques he uses. And against kalla he used orbs to launch those streams of shinsu (and at least that attack that seemed to have infinite shinsu must have been powered by the loop).

Another problem with this interpretation is that as long as baam fights the loop would revert to 0 so it would be extremly dificult to improve the loop...And I think the idea isn t to have an ocean but a highly dense normal quantity of shinsu. If it was an ocean it wouldn t be dense.

But the problem is that if I am not wrong bam already did a loop. his problem was mantaining it because he got distracted. And I don t even think it makes sense that someone can control a loop of infinite shinsu without effort. Baam must need a bang to keep the technique going and some concentration to keep the shinsu stored acording to how ToG works.

On the other hand I think that SIU can use the concentration of shinsu to justify baam's ability to mantain the loop. If you say baam can only control a finite amount of shinsu, then it makes sense to say that baam is controling a reasonable amount of shinsu in the loop but that it is very concentrated. Honestly, I think baam is only using shinsu from the loop and the amount he takes from the loop is automatically replenshid in the loop by the shinsu in the atmosphere. This way the technique is always getting better and things actually make sense.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 12, 2020 ---

The explosion techniques have EoB in the name though. And the bomber thing is a theme among them. The explosions are definitely pretty much THE power. And yeah, other 10 family members have strong bodies. And princesses to. But strong bodies are a genetic thing. And we know from jinsung's explanation that kallavan is the result of a long line of rankers basically going at it breeding to produce increasingly stronger rankers. 10 family members don't have a monopoly on strong genetics.

They do? I don t remembre that… Usually kalla simply activates the EoB and uses his techniques...
But the problem is that kalla shouldn t be that much stronger than jinsung or princesses that also specialize in body stregnth. His genetics aren t much superior to them in terms of body strength…

 

[kkck]

But those techniques are hansung techniques. If you check his abilities you will see that most of the techniques you are refering have the same name as the techniques he uses. And against kalla he used orbs to launch those streams of shinsu (and at least that attack that seemed to have infinite shinsu must have been powered by the loop).

Another problem with this interpretation is that as long as baam fights the loop would revert to 0 so it would be extremly dificult to improve the loop...And I think the idea isn t to have an ocean but a highly dense normal quantity of shinsu. If it was an ocean it wouldn t be dense.

But the problem is that if I am not wrong bam already did a loop. his problem was mantaining it because he got distracted. And I don t even think it makes sense that someone can control a loop of infinite shinsu without effort. Baam must need a bang to keep the technique going and some concentration to keep the shinsu stored acording to how ToG works.

On the other hand I think that SIU can use the concentration of shinsu to justify baam's ability to mantain the loop. If you say baam can only control a finite amount of shinsu, then it makes sense to say that baam is controling a reasonable amount of shinsu in the loop but that it is very concentrated. Honestly, I think baam is only using shinsu from the loop and the amount he takes from the loop is automatically replenshid in the loop by the shinsu in the atmosphere. This way the technique is always getting better and things actually make sense.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 12, 2020 ---

They do? I don t remembre that… Usually kalla simply activates the EoB and uses his techniques...
But the problem is that kalla shouldn t be that much stronger than jinsung or princesses that also specialize in body stregnth. His genetics aren t much superior to them in terms of body strength…

I checked for YHS techniques but didn't find any on the wiki at least (webtoon's is too inconvenient to scour the entire series for every technique YHS has made). But even then, it doesn't exactly contradict my idea that bam is basically just hosing down his enemies with the loop. And yeah, the attack he used to break through kallavan's explosions was probably powered by the loop. The loop was visible moments earlier. I am not entirely clear of the mechanics of how bam combines the orb and the loop, or if he can. Him using them to sustain the orbs would make some manner of sense.

And yeah, the loop can absolutely run out. It's not something he powers up during battle, we have seen him meditate to add more shinsoo to it outside of battle once or twice. Also, it's an ocean's worth of shinsoo. Not an actual ocean. He compresses an ocean into the loop and carries it around.

And yet, that is pretty much the point of the loop. And yeah, its grossly OP. YHS says "What if you used that incredible natural gift of yours.... to create a shinsoo loop that runs nonstop so you can save up even more power?". The loop running nonstop is the key part. it sustains itself and bam can just keep adding more and more shinsoo to it. Of course, the loop can only hold as much shinsoo as he adds previously and can absolutely become empty.

 

[divica]

I checked for YHS techniques but didn't find any on the wiki at least (webtoon's is too inconvenient to scour the entire series for every technique YHS has made). But even then, it doesn't exactly contradict my idea that bam is basically just hosing down his enemies with the loop. And yeah, the attack he used to break through kallavan's explosions was probably powered by the loop. The loop was visible moments earlier. I am not entirely clear of the mechanics of how bam combines the orb and the loop, or if he can. Him using them to sustain the orbs would make some manner of sense.

And yeah, the loop can absolutely run out. It's not something he powers up during battle, we have seen him meditate to add more shinsoo to it outside of battle once or twice. Also, it's an ocean's worth of shinsoo. Not an actual ocean. He compresses an ocean into the loop and carries it around.

And yet, that is pretty much the point of the loop. And yeah, its grossly OP. YHS says "What if you used that incredible natural gift of yours.... to create a shinsoo loop that runs nonstop so you can save up even more power?". The loop running nonstop is the key part. it sustains itself and bam can just keep adding more and more shinsoo to it. Of course, the loop can only hold as much shinsoo as he adds previously and can absolutely become empty.

But look at what mad dog says when he is hit with one of those techniques
the shinsu isn t getting weaker. It just keeps getting stronger. All the shinsu around here is gathering around him.

What kalla says
He just keeps drawing shinsu from those orbs. It is almost like he has got unlimited shinsu.

I think he uses the loop to gather shinsu more efeciently during battle...
And as long as baam extracts shinsu from the loop it should work as the shinsu he gathers from the atmosphere into his orbs...

Even if the loop works as you say we know that baam needs to have some control to keep it going. That implies a bang and some mental efort. I think the diference is that transforming shinsu into bangs and keeping into going into a loop isn t the same action. As far as we know the efort to transform shinsu into bangs is much greater than keeping shinsu circulating so anybody can keep huge amounts of shinsu into a loop.

I think the problem is using the stored shinsu. The idea is to use super dense shinsu. So either we assume that super dense shinsu= a lot of shinsu and therefore most people should only be able to create few bangs with it or super dense shinsu is a method to use more powerfull shinsu into tecniques without drawbacks from using too much shinsu. In the first scenario you need to admit that baam can control infinite shinsu and in the second scenario I have no idea why more people don t use this technique. I think these are the laws to fit the technique into ToG universe. You can t just say that baam can keep a self sustaining loop without effort because it doesn t make sense and is against what we were shown.

 

[Orbs2op]

If I can chime in a little the loops are above bam normal shinsu capacity, it's strong enough to break kallavan barriers, that clearly beyond what bam can currently do using shinsu on the floor, there is a clear difference between the two, Bam blessing in shinsu makes the loop possible, because the power does decrease no matter how many bangs he can make atm according to YHS, so the loops follow the same principle, it all defends on how many bangs bam can make regardless of how powerful the loops gets cause it scales with him, it won't overwhelm him or be out of control cause he is blessed by the tower for wave controlling, as long as it shinsu its easy even easier than learning martial arts.

The moment bam got the orb his wave controlling has officially been broken, the fact the loopsxorb exists means handling the loops by themselves is easier control, he is absorbing the shinsu on the floor for the loops, he has been doing it for years, I'm sure it's the slightly more difficult to control compared to his usual stuff, since the loops skills aren't beautiful or overly skillful just raw power like a wave drowning rankers, just look at the test ranker fight or the houndbound fight loops combo with zero wave, overwhelm them the strike their core with a direct it, just shows that level isn't high yet.

 

[kkck]

If I can chime in a little the loops are above bam normal shinsu capacity, it's strong enough to break kallavan barriers, that clearly beyond what bam can currently do using shinsu on the floor, there is a clear difference between the two, Bam blessing in shinsu makes the loop possible, because the power does decrease no matter how many bangs he can make atm according to YHS, so the loops follow the same principle, it all defends on how many bangs bam can make regardless of how powerful the loops gets cause it scales with him, it won't overwhelm him or be out of control cause he is blessed by the tower for wave controlling, as long as it shinsu its easy even easier than learning martial arts.

The moment bam got the orb his wave controlling has officially been broken, the fact the loopsxorb exists means handling the loops by themselves is easier control, he is absorbing the shinsu on the floor for the loops, he has been doing it for years, I'm sure it's the slightly more difficult to control compared to his usual stuff, since the loops skills aren't beautiful or overly skillful just raw power like a wave drowning rankers, just look at the test ranker fight or the houndbound fight loops combo with zero wave, overwhelm them the strike their core with a direct it, just shows that level isn't high yet.

The point YHS makes is that bam's ability to control shinsoo does not decrease as the amount of bangs increases. It's not about the power, its about his control over it. Even without the loop bam can use his max amount of power while also retaining maximum control over it. With the loops, he can go beyond even his max amount of bangs... For the time being, or at least until bam gets more broken, I don't think we will see bam use highly complex techniques with the loops. It's just... not possible to use more than your max amount of shinsoo at a time. The loops apparently sustaining the orbs seems about as broken as bam gets in that regard. Though in theory bam could actually unleash more power than that by simply unleashing the loop on people. As I understand the theory here, if bam uses the loop to sustain the orb what he is doing is basically maintaining his conventional max power indefinitely as the loop is providing the orb with power rather than bam. As in, this is probably more efficient than bam powering up his orb conventionally and firing. In turn the loop itself has way more shinsoo than bam's maximum amount of bangs...

 

[Jack Van Burace]

I think loops are actually simple: a trick to store Shinsoo that he can replenish faster than he is able to spend, thus making it an infinite source of raw Shinsoo.

The issue with bangs is only to enable this technique, because other people trying to store Shinsoo will lose Shinsoo if they increase the number of bangs used, and their reserves will fade, resulting in a fixed amount of Shinsoo they can use at a time anyway, so why bother storing it? Only for a person able to keep several Bangs with a steady concentration regardless of number of bangs it will work.

It seems as if Bam's Shinsoo has both Tension (ability to pack Shinsoo into a bang) and plus tendency (ability to keep Shinsoo strong regardless of number of bangs), which imo are very similar traits, as both deal with high power per bang. Even Orb is related to that as it boosts Shinsoo.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 14, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 14, 2020 ---

I am also certain that Bam won't excel in all of Shinsoo traits, as in, there's likely an equivalent hax trait that other irregulars posess that he doesn't. Mazino's lightspeed Shinsoo, Eurasia's uncontrollable wave Controlling, I think Bam is his own godly tier set of Shinsoo traits, but that there's likely some things he won't have the best specks.

What I'm trying to do is finding a negative picture, looking at what he is good at and thinking what could be the other irregular special traits by thinking what doesn't fit for him. If we can accurately define Bam's traits, we can have an idea of what others might have.

 

[kkck]

The series does not make the point that the loops replenish themselves faster than he spends them. We have seen bam store shinsoo as a conscious process and even comments on it taking a long time to recharge:

Tower of God - [Season 3] Ep. 5

What do you desire? Money and wealth? Honor and pride? Authority and power? Revenge? Or something that transcends them all? Whatever you desire—it's here.

www.webtoons.com

The shinsoo loops are charged before a battle and based on the mechanics as explained in the series they can absolutely be emptied out if used enough.

 

[Demonspeed]

Yeah, he stores Shinsoo with the loops consciously and he can use them later.

I am also certain that Bam won't excel in all of Shinsoo traits, as in, there's likely an equivalent hax trait that other irregulars posess that he doesn't. Mazino's lightspeed Shinsoo, Eurasia's uncontrollable wave Controlling, I think Bam is his own godly tier set of Shinsoo traits, but that there's likely some things he won't have the best specks.

What I'm trying to do is finding a negative picture, looking at what he is good at and thinking what could be the other irregular special traits by thinking what doesn't fit for him. If we can accurately define Bam's traits, we can have an idea of what others might have.

Baam's one true weakness that we know is his inherent physical ability(compared to the 10F guys). He seems to have all the Shinsoo related hax. I tried to think about areas he seems better and inferior to others too but it's hard when he is an Irregular and we don't see many skilled Wave Controllers in the first place(in the Workshop Battle arc at least it looks like Laure could manage Shinsoo better than him). Plus for this we need to identify all the elements which matter when it comes to Shinsoo and it's difficult.

Baam seems like Blosom but with V's Tension and inferior inherent physical abilities. I don't see how he couldn't become like Blosom in the future considering what we know currently, we don't even know the difference in talent between Eurasias and Po Bidaus which are the families better at Shinsoo control. Everyone has Tension, Baam is just better at it. And for the Plus Tendency thing, YHS also said that Kallavan and Jinsung have it, YHS himself as well IIRC(YHS is honestly very underrated IMO with all the skills he has).

SIU said before that Baam couldn't fly unlike Data Zahard and Data Eduan because he was less skilled than them when it comes to using Shinsoo to make themselves buoyant, but he has Blue Oar. Baam also lacks the ability to use Shinsoo to heal so far(Jinsung used it) and yes it's been underused even though it's been mentioned very early but it exists. The lobster healed him once but it never reappeared and Baam never healed in a major battle. It also seems that Baam can't copy or use "elemental" attacks, he is good at using pure Shinsoo, if it makes sense.

 

[kkck]

Baam's one true weakness that we know is his inherent physical ability(compared to the 10F guys). He seems to have all the Shinsoo related hax. I tried to think about areas he seems better and inferior to others too but it's hard when he is an Irregular and we don't see many skilled Wave Controllers in the first place(in the Workshop Battle arc at least it looks like Laure could manage Shinsoo better than him). Plus for this we need to identify all the elements which matter when it comes to Shinsoo and it's difficult.

Baam seems like Blosom but with V's Tension and inferior inherent physical abilities. I don't see how he couldn't become like Blosom in the future considering what we know currently, we don't even know the difference in talent between Eurasias and Po Bidaus which are the families better at Shinsoo control. Everyone has Tension, Baam is just better at it. And for the Plus Tendency thing, YHS also said that Kallavan and Jinsung have it, YHS himself as well IIRC(YHS is honestly very underrated IMO with all the skills he has).

SIU said before that Baam couldn't fly unlike Data Zahard and Data Eduan because he was less skilled than them when it comes to using Shinsoo to make themselves buoyant, but he has Blue Oar. Baam also lacks the ability to use Shinsoo to heal so far(Jinsung used it) and yes it's been underused even though it's been mentioned very early but it exists. The lobster healed him once but it never reappeared and Baam never healed in a major battle. It also seems that Baam can't copy or use "elemental" attacks, he is good at using pure Shinsoo, if it makes sense.

I still think there is a chance bam simply hasn't had the time to put into developing his physical skills. Bam's peers have potentially decades of advantage over bam, an area in which bam might not have been particularly talented and thus develops at a slower rate compared to his shinsoo. Overall his physical abilities should be largely inherited from his parents, who were peers to the 10 families. To varying degrees all noble families have strong constitutions so its not impossible bam inherited a strong constitution which is simply currently underdeveloped.

I agree in that bam seems more or less like bloosom when it comes to shinsoo. Easily picks up skill and doesn't quite understand what he is doing... I've been wondering about plus tendency thing for a while now. Minus tendency, which is common, is the loss of shinsoo control when using more bangs. Plus tendency as framed in the lore is the opposite, an increase of control as bang use increases. Bam's blessing in turn is framed as simply bam not loosing control as he uses more bangs. I wonder if perhaps SIU decided to scrap plus tendency as framed originally because it would have been too broken... As in, with the shinsoo loop he'd get more and more shinsoo control as he keeps adding shinsoo to it.

I've been wondering when shinsoo would start making bam's body like that of a ranker in the sense of its ability to take damage... All rankers seem to enjoy some benefits to their constitution in that sense, even if they aren't particularly durable. Bam recently used shinwonryu to cancel out charlie's poison... perhaps this is a first step for bam in that direction?

 

[TheLastMartian]

Well Bam took a punch from Kallavan and was still standing. I don't think most rankers could take a punch and still be standing.