Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[GL_Nova]

Jellal was a higher ranked WS back when it mattered. He was stronger than both.


From what we've seen. Erza should be able to break out easily.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 11, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 11, 2020 ---

Gildarts definitely would've solo'd.

Not th

Aconologia

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 11, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 11, 2020 ---

I dont think sp
We don't actually have information about this

But from the story perspective
WS were considered gods then
There was no.need for higher tier ws

So after ds natsu took out jellal. And we saw that ws tier coin falling. I think it just meant starting level ws tier has been reached or something
Why would you introduce ws tier and jump even above them so suddenly


Maybe erza could

Yeah gildarts would easily handle that guild but

Gildarts power is inconsistent.
He had trouble with bluenote and suddenly he is hanging with august.
Alverzef natus felt like he would extreme low diff tenrou gildarts but then that old geezer got a huge powerup

oh you actually counted him? I feel like Gildarts and above are a seperate conversation for a bit yet.

 

[Seven777]

Sorry for the late response

Wahl lightening immunity was explained. He is immune to lightening because he can redirect it into his own attack. Otherwise he is weak to it. Wahl didnt recognize red lightening. And yes its lightening
(I am not saying this hundred percent but it is possibility)

Erza was glowing when she charged at deus sema. Maybe she got the power from the same place natsu got when his guild mark started to glow. Or its extreme pof

2. You missed the point here
Why bring erza here. I am comparing normal foot soldier to extreme hype foot soldier
Zancrow against bluenote
Rufus and jura
Wahl against irene
Zancrow, rufus and wahl are average foot soldier. With no one hyping them. If wahl etherion can overpower dragon irene deus sema, zancrow attack should also destrow bluenote blackhole and rufus should also be able to overpower jura mt Fuji

Compare jose durability to gajeel please (phantom arc)
Compare sting durability to jura please (gmg arc)

Mishma doesnt provide this much data

Changing the way you rank character for laxus hype is giving importance to laxus

There was also no relation implied between him recognizing lightning and absorbing it.
I though that was just drag
Because Erza is weaker than Jura, characters dont have to be villains to be comparable. As for Wahl Etherion, I mention it might be able to break Sema because I think it might be an ability that lets him hit above his weight class, like Cana using FG. I also think it just as likely that it can't do shit.As far as i can remember Zancrow and Rufus don't have abilities that let them hit above their weight class. If it makes you feel better though, I think a regular grunt like Minerva might be able to block My Fuji with her magic. That aside, we found out in HERO's that you can be significantly weaker than your opponent and still bust Sema, as seen with Shiki and Genesis, destroying the spell before it hits the ground seems to be the go to strategy against it.
No, Jose has feats against Makarov
No, Jura has feats against Laxus
The way characters are ranked has always been the same, feats+hype is always how it's been.

 

[sharkai]

There was also no relation implied between him recognizing lightning and absorbing it.
I though that was just drag
Because Erza is weaker than Jura, characters dont have to be villains to be comparable. As for Wahl Etherion, I mention it might be able to break Sema because I think it might be an ability that lets him hit above his weight class, like Cana using FG. I also think it just as likely that it can't do shit.As far as i can remember Zancrow and Rufus don't have abilities that let them hit above their weight class. If it makes you feel better though, I think a regular grunt like Minerva might be able to block My Fuji with her magic. That aside, we found out in HERO's that you can be significantly weaker than your opponent and still bust Sema, as seen with Shiki and Genesis, destroying the spell before it hits the ground seems to be the go to strategy against it.
No, Jose has feats against Makarov
No, Jura has feats against Laxus
The way characters are ranked has always been the same, feats+hype is always how it's been.

There was also no relation implied between him recognizing lightning and absorbing it.

then what was the point
Introducing a new species, machina
Making them weak to lightening
Then wahl appear to be immune that weakness by redirecting it
And then not recognizing red lightening

Why would wahl be able to hit above his weight?
Fairy glitter us legendary spell dont comparr that anything wahl had.

Yes you are right wahl nor rufus nor zancrow has anything to hit above their weight

Sadly for you minivera wasnt a regular grunt unlike wahl. (Again rejecting hype when it doesnt suit you and making things up to get to the conclusion you want, wahl hiting above his weight lol)
Jura after witnessing laxus vs raven tail and orga strongest move agaisnt MPF was shocked that someone was this strong was walking around the last day of the tournament (war god spell)

Sorry. There is nothing in faiy tail that suggest this.
Atleast try to be less bais mate
There is slight suggestion laxus used wahl weakness. But you might still.be right there
But there is nothing in the manga what so ever that suggests erza used some bs strategy to destroy deus sema.

Jose got hurt by one two light rays from marakrov. Are you sure gajeel wouldnt survive that as well

Jura didnt take many named spell from laxus withoit blocking. Gajeel took two strongest from laxus. And non named nuke and stuffs



Feats plus hype!
Lol
Aria low diffs natsu. Gajeel got some hype after aria was taken out
Gajeel struggles with natsu
According to you gajeel>>aria

Wahl etherion doesnt even fire
Minerva war god spell causes jura to sweat
But Minerva is a regular grunt
And wahl hits above his weight class
(Ignores kagura speed and attack hype while you are at that)

Dragon irene causal claw swipe breaks every bone in erza body along with her sword. But irene top spell deus sema can be taken out by no hype regular villian
Yeah, i see consistency in your arguments

The way you ranked character was wrong because laxus didnt mid diff erza. He barely exhausted her

 

[Seven777]

then what was the point
Introducing a new species, machina
Making them weak to lightening
Then wahl appear to be immune that weakness by redirecting it
And then not recognizing red lightening

Why would wahl be able to hit above his weight?
Fairy glitter us legendary spell dont comparr that anything wahl had.

Yes you are right wahl nor rufus nor zancrow has anything to hit above their weight

Sadly for you minivera wasnt a regular grunt unlike wahl. (Again rejecting hype when it doesnt suit you and making things up to get to the conclusion you want, wahl hiting above his weight lol)
Jura after witnessing laxus vs raven tail and orga strongest move agaisnt MPF was shocked that someone was this strong was walking around the last day of the tournament (war god spell)

Sorry. There is nothing in faiy tail that suggest this.
Atleast try to be less bais mate
There is slight suggestion laxus used wahl weakness. But you might still.be right there
But there is nothing in the manga what so ever that suggests erza used some bs strategy to destroy deus sema.

Jose got hurt by one two light rays from marakrov. Are you sure gajeel wouldnt survive that as well

Jura didnt take many named spell from laxus withoit blocking. Gajeel took two strongest from laxus. And non named nuke and stuffs



Feats plus hype!
Lol
Aria low diffs natsu. Gajeel got some hype after aria was taken out
Gajeel struggles with natsu
According to you gajeel>>aria

Wahl etherion doesnt even fire
Minerva war god spell causes jura to sweat
But Minerva is a regular grunt
And wahl hits above his weight class
(Ignores kagura speed and attack hype while you are at that)

Dragon irene causal claw swipe breaks every bone in erza body along with her sword. But irene top spell deus sema can be taken out by no hype regular villian
Yeah, i see consistency in your arguments

The way you ranked character was wrong because laxus didnt mid diff erza. He barely exhausted her

To set him up as an enemy for Laxus. Ichiya needed a reason to attack Wahl with lightning to show that he was immune to lightning.
Some characters are able to hit above their weight class with certain spells, like Cana with Fairy Glitter. Etherion has the hype for that to be the case, arguably greater hype than Fairy Glitter. But like I said, it could just as easily not be the case, I don't really care either way.
I am usually right, yes.
All spriggans had Minerva level hype. Minerva is to Jura what Wahl is to Eileen, Jura is the unquestioned superior. But fine, if you're gonna get all in my face about it you can call her a Larcade
HERO's is written by Mashima, and uses characters from FT. It's easy enough to see his mindset in regards to Sema.

Nah, Gajeel would prob survive the Makarov attacks. In fact comparing his durability to Jose's isn't all that outlandish, I might even consider it if there were statements about Jose's poor durability. There aren't unfortunately.
Jura doesn't need to take named spells. Taking regular hits from Laxus is good enough to put him above Sting. Needing a secret art to be beaten puts him significantly above Tempester.

Yeah, feats plus hype. Gajeel had hype, and he had feats of fighting a stronger Natsu. By both feats and hype Gajeel is Aria's superior.
See above
Possibly, like I said, I don't really care either way.
Did I mention Kagura?

Is the broken bones thing supposed to aid your argument lol? Erza couldn't block claw swipe, but she could destroy Deus Sema, why is that I wonder? Seems like shattering it before it lands is indeed the correct method given Erza's performance. Yes, that does indeed seems consistent with my argument

Current Erza did, not Alvarez Erza. New arc, new feats.

 

[Ronin31]

Perhaps I made mistakes while writing comments on Erza vs Laxus. I juste wanted to say that Erza and Laxus are evenly matched. For me they are currently in the same raw power. The fight balance remained in the fighting condition and the key of the battle remained into enchanted invocation.

When Erza was managed to fight Laxus, she knew that he is a very strong opponent but didn't know how far he has grown until a year. As she managed to fight the Laxus she knew, she didn't knew how to fight this "new" Laxus. She was amazed of his brutal strength, amazed to his far greater magic power and Stamina. That made her confused in some way.

In the first part, even fighting a foe as strong as herself, she was still fighting a friend. She couldn't fight to kill him. As she was taking damage due to a bloodlusted Laxus, she decided to summon "high enchant spell" to knock him down. Laxus lost consciousness for a laps of time, before of realising that Erza was not fighting to death. Even if she was barely holding back this strike, she thought that it will be enough to take him down, underestimating his new stamina.

Laxus asked her to stop holding back, because it was not a friend contest anymore (see my avatar) and Erza agreed, she had to give all her might if she has to take him down.They evenly were fighting in physical contest and then countered each other in a Magic contest (Blumenblatt vs Raiko) to a deuce match.

In my opinion, High Enchant made her loss, the same way Laxus's "Fairy Law" during Fantasia. Laxus used very great amount of his MP without being effective. If Fairy Law was effective, Laxus wouldn't have won. But without effectivity and fulled his MP, he gets his own loss. For Erza, she used great amount on her MP to summon "High Enchant" (enchant is a new magic skill , and performing High Enchant require far more MP) to hold on her attack not to exterminate a friend.
While he was collapsing during a barely holding back attack, perhaps Laxus would have fallen to a full strength High Enchanted slash.

If Erza managed to slash him the same way without High Enchant but with her full strength, perhaps she dealt the same amount of damage or perhaps less. But without using her MP to High Enchant, during the final contest, Erza remained to have more MP than Laxus to the final point. They stopped each other at the same time, completely exhausted. Erza accepted her loss, so if people think Laxus won the battle, I am ok. But Laxus just felt after, saying that he will win next time, to take back Erza's words.

So in my opinion, they are even, mismatch with no contest, but Erza still has MP's average.

I also think that Erza's real strength dwells in her emotional potential, which greatly grows up her stats. Nevertheless, she can't use it against a friend.

 

[GL_Nova]

What’s this hit above your weight class bullshit? Unless expressly stated (like unison raid, or the explanation of FG) you have to have the magic to power a spell. Wahl using Etherion isn’t above his weight class, he cast it effortlessly and without aid, after extensive combat. An Wahl isn’t a regular soldier. He’s strong enough to be the backbone of 2 seperate attack squads. He’s also got the best feats aside from August & Irene.

 

[Fyron]

There's nothing that anyone else has to do for Natsu to tap into this "guild power". Natsu just has to get really emotional. I suppose it's possible that Natsu is absorbing other people's power into him...But even then, that's not exclusive to when he had it against Zeref. It's happened before, but I just chalked it up to typical shounen speeches. So I chalked the one in Zeref's fight as typical shounen speech too.

Spoiler

I suppose I could be wrong here, and Natsu truly has the power to tap into other people's powers. Then that's just OP. It's also just POF, because the chapter I'm pulling these pages from is literally titled "Power of Emotions".

We don't know that for sure. It could be possible that Natsu could tap into that power only because he was inside the FT guild. The difference between Natsu's friendship speech this time as compared to the other times is that his guild mark glowed during the fight which has always been synonymous with the person in question receiving power from some external source. Like for example Erza against Azuma , Erza and Gray receiving enchantments from Wendy , Erza activating True Benizakura and Natsu and Gray's enchants against Laxus , etc. Why would Natsu reference that he's using the power of the guild just after his guild mark started glowing otherwise ?

Like I said in my previous post , it's possible that the attack itself is Flames of Emotions and hence the name. It's very much possible that PoF is involved there. However , who's to say that the attack wasn't buffed by something apart from PoF as well , and that PoF isn't the only thing that played a part ?

END doesn’t need to hit as hard as a FDK Igneel punch, like I keep saying, accumulated damage. Base Natsu was smacking Zeref around the guild, and it was tiring Zeref out, leaving him panting in exhaustion, END would do significantly better.

Erza didn’t perform better than Gray. A single attack from Eileen shattered all her bones, Gray tanked multiple. As for needing Natsu to land a hit, are you seriously trying to claim Erza literally falling on Eileen, as a speed/combat feat lol? And it’s not even that Eileen couldn’t react to the falling speed, she saw the attack coming from a mile away and cockily stated that it couldn’t hurt her, she literally LET IT hit her. It was Wendy casting the enchantment on Erzas sword just before it hit Eileen that caused the attack to land, either clever planning from Wendy or pure luck, either way, Wendy played the same role for Erza against Eileen, that Natsu played for Gray against Mars Geer. So imo you're definitely downplaying Wendy’s contribution, not only did it turn Erzas attack from not threatening at all, to severely damaging, but it’s also thanks to Wendy’s timing that it even hit Eileen in the first place. Wendy literally made ALL the difference in that fight.
As for Shiki, he did turn around and strike Genesis, he just didn't have slaying advantage. Without slaying advantage Erza's turn-around-strike would have been as useless as Shiki's.

Zeref didn't just tank one FDK Igneel punch, they had an off screen fight for a while , so he did take accumulated damage. He tanked his attacks to the point that at the end Natsu had power for only one attack left in him , and Zeref was still standing. It would've taken all of Igneel's power to kill Zeref. Immortality doesn't affect Zeref's durability , Zeref can still be knocked out as evidenced by how he got knocked out after getting hit by Guild Mark Natsu's attack , it's just that he won't be able to die after getting knocked out. If he gets hit by something like Acnologia's roar he will be knocked out. The fact that he can take Igneel Natsu's attacks to the point that the power got exhausted while trying to kill him and still remain standing until the very final attack means END doesn't have what it would take to knock out Zeref. And Zeref simply wasn't fighting against Base Natsu to his full extent , because he could immobilize Natsu easily just few chapters later and Natsu's normal attacks couldn't help him break out of it , he was forced into Dragon Force. It's no different from Gildarts struggling against Bluenote only to oneshot him later , or Erza struggling against Historia Serena , or Natsu taking several chapters to break out of Invel's ice when he could unfreeze Lucy in a second , or an Acnologia bloodlusted on killing Wendy not being able to catch up to a ship when parent dragons can cross a continent in a minute. It's normal in FT.


There's no thing called "slayer advantage" for dragon slayers. Dragon slaying magic is just a power of a dragon enchanted into a human. It would be like saying a human enchanting another human would let the person enchanted kill humans who're tiers above him. All dragon slaying magic does is it helps to bypass the dragon scales of a dragon. Human Irene was already damaged enough by Erza , the damage accumulated in human form doesn't just disappear into thin air just because she changed into her Dragon Form , it translates to the damage accumulated by her dragon form too. It isn't all that strange to believe that a version of Erza who could smash through Deus Sema would cut down Dragon Irene , because it's not like Dragon Irene is fighting at her full HP. Acnologia got his arm ripped off in Dragon form , his human form didn't magically grow
an arm , why should Dragon Irene regain her lost HP just because she transformed ? Wendy only allowed Erza to bypass Irene's dragon scales , she didn't make the attack 's potency more threatening than it was for Irene.

 

[LaGOAT]

Perhaps I made mistakes while writing comments on Erza vs Laxus. I juste wanted to say that Erza and Laxus are evenly matched. For me they are currently in the same raw power. The fight balance remained in the fighting condition and the key of the battle remained into enchanted invocation.

When Erza was managed to fight Laxus, she knew that he is a very strong opponent but didn't know how far he has grown until a year. As she managed to fight the Laxus she knew, she didn't knew how to fight this "new" Laxus. She was amazed of his brutal strength, amazed to his far greater magic power and Stamina. That made her confused in some way.

In the first part, even fighting a foe as strong as herself, she was still fighting a friend. She couldn't fight to kill him. As she was taking damage due to a bloodlusted Laxus, she decided to summon "high enchant spell" to knock him down. Laxus lost consciousness for a laps of time, before of realising that Erza was not fighting to death. Even if she was barely holding back this strike, she thought that it will be enough to take him down, underestimating his new stamina.

Laxus asked her to stop holding back, because it was not a friend contest anymore (see my avatar) and Erza agreed, she had to give all her might if she has to take him down.They evenly were fighting in physical contest and then countered each other in a Magic contest (Blumenblatt vs Raiko) to a deuce match.

In my opinion, High Enchant made her loss, the same way Laxus's "Fairy Law" during Fantasia. Laxus used very great amount of his MP without being effective. If Fairy Law was effective, Laxus wouldn't have won. But without effectivity and fulled his MP, he gets his own loss. For Erza, she used great amount on her MP to summon "High Enchant" (enchant is a new magic skill , and performing High Enchant require far more MP) to hold on her attack not to exterminate a friend.
While he was collapsing during a barely holding back attack, perhaps Laxus would have fallen to a full strength High Enchanted slash.

If Erza managed to slash him the same way without High Enchant but with her full strength, perhaps she dealt the same amount of damage or perhaps less. But without using her MP to High Enchant, during the final contest, Erza remained to have more MP than Laxus to the final point. They stopped each other at the same time, completely exhausted. Erza accepted her loss, so if people think Laxus won the battle, I am ok. But Laxus just felt after, saying that he will win next time, to take back Erza's words.

So in my opinion, they are even, mismatch with no contest, but Erza still has MP's average.

I also think that Erza's real strength dwells in her emotional potential, which greatly grows up her stats. Nevertheless, she can't use it against a friend.

Laxus wasn’t bloodthirsty lol

 

[Seven777]

Zeref didn't just tank one FDK Igneel punch, they had an off screen fight for a while , so he did take accumulated damage. He tanked his attacks to the point that at the end Natsu had power for only one attack left in him , and Zeref was still standing. It would've taken all of Igneel's power to kill Zeref. Immortality doesn't affect Zeref's durability , Zeref can still be knocked out as evidenced by how he got knocked out after getting hit by Guild Mark Natsu's attack , it's just that he won't be able to die after getting knocked out. If he gets hit by something like Acnologia's roar he will be knocked out. The fact that he can take Igneel Natsu's attacks to the point that the power got exhausted while trying to kill him and still remain standing until the very final attack means END doesn't have what it would take to knock out Zeref. And Zeref simply wasn't fighting against Base Natsu to his full extent , because he could immobilize Natsu easily just few chapters later and Natsu's normal attacks couldn't help him break out of it , he was forced into Dragon Force. It's no different from Gildarts struggling against Bluenote only to oneshot him later , or Erza struggling against Historia Serena , or Natsu taking several chapters to break out of Invel's ice when he could unfreeze Lucy in a second , or an Acnologia bloodlusted on killing Wendy not being able to catch up to a ship when parent dragons can cross a continent in a minute. It's normal in FT.


There's no thing called "slayer advantage" for dragon slayers. Dragon slaying magic is just a power of a dragon enchanted into a human. It would be like saying a human enchanting another human would let the person enchanted kill humans who're tiers above him. All dragon slaying magic does is it helps to bypass the dragon scales of a dragon. Human Irene was already damaged enough by Erza , the damage accumulated in human form doesn't just disappear into thin air just because she changed into her Dragon Form , it translates to the damage accumulated by her dragon form too. It isn't all that strange to believe that a version of Erza who could smash through Deus Sema would cut down Dragon Irene , because it's not like Dragon Irene is fighting at her full HP. Acnologia got his arm ripped off in Dragon form , his human form didn't magically grow
an arm , why should Dragon Irene regain her lost HP just because she transformed ? Wendy only allowed Erza to bypass Irene's dragon scales , she didn't make the attack 's potency more threatening than it was for Irene.

I know, i think END could do all that and more. Imo whatever was left of Igneel's power<END in quantity, END doesn't have IgNatsu's output, but it's not as limited a resource as Igneel's magic, END would be able to keep fighting beyond the point IgNatsu stopped.
As for comparing Base Natsu's performance to Erza vs Hist Serena or Gildarts vs Bluenote, I don't think so. Zeref was visibly exhausted from Base Natsu's onslaught, it was not a casual battle. Zeref edged out Base Natsu with his binding spell, but by that point it was already a high diff fight. Besides, I have END a close match for DF Natsu, bar him combining it with FDK.

There's nothing called "slayer advantage" for Demon or God Slayers either, it's a fan made term.
I didn't say Human Eileen's damage disappeared when she transformed, I don't know where that came from.
Wendy did for Erza against Eileen what Silver did for Gray against Mard Geer, she allowed Erza to deal damage.

 

[Ronin31]

Laxus wasn’t bloodthirsty lol

He didn't expected Erza to hold back to only a strength contest. He was fighting to destroy her.... Still, she couldn't see him as a foe, but a very powerful nakama who will replace her to protect the Guild.

 

[LaGOAT]

He didn't expected Erza to hold back to only a strength contest. He was fighting to destroy her.... Still, she couldn't see him as a foe, but a very powerful nakama who will replace her to protect the Guild.

bloodthirsty is to Intent to kill laxus wasn’t but he was going all out

 

[sharkai]

What’s this hit above your weight class bullshit? Unless expressly stated (like unison raid, or the explanation of FG) you have to have the magic to power a spell. Wahl using Etherion isn’t above his weight class, he cast it effortlessly and without aid, after extensive combat. An Wahl isn’t a regular soldier. He’s strong enough to be the backbone of 2 seperate attack squads. He’s also got the best feats aside from August & Irene.

Agreed with wahl cant hit above his weight

Dont think he has better feats than other average springgan

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 15, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 15, 2020 ---

To set him up as an enemy for Laxus. Ichiya needed a reason to attack Wahl with lightning to show that he was immune to lightning.
Some characters are able to hit above their weight class with certain spells, like Cana with Fairy Glitter. Etherion has the hype for that to be the case, arguably greater hype than Fairy Glitter. But like I said, it could just as easily not be the case, I don't really care either way.
I am usually right, yes.
All spriggans had Minerva level hype. Minerva is to Jura what Wahl is to Eileen, Jura is the unquestioned superior. But fine, if you're gonna get all in my face about it you can call her a Larcade
HERO's is written by Mashima, and uses characters from FT. It's easy enough to see his mindset in regards to Sema.

Nah, Gajeel would prob survive the Makarov attacks. In fact comparing his durability to Jose's isn't all that outlandish, I might even consider it if there were statements about Jose's poor durability. There aren't unfortunately.
Jura doesn't need to take named spells. Taking regular hits from Laxus is good enough to put him above Sting. Needing a secret art to be beaten puts him significantly above Tempester.

Yeah, feats plus hype. Gajeel had hype, and he had feats of fighting a stronger Natsu. By both feats and hype Gajeel is Aria's superior.
See above
Possibly, like I said, I don't really care either way.
Did I mention Kagura?

Is the broken bones thing supposed to aid your argument lol? Erza couldn't block claw swipe, but she could destroy Deus Sema, why is that I wonder? Seems like shattering it before it lands is indeed the correct method given Erza's performance. Yes, that does indeed seems consistent with my argument

Current Erza did, not Alvarez Erza. New arc, new feats.

That doesnt explain much.
Your reason works for immune to lightening thing. Not for machina lightening weakness. Ichiya could have randomly used lightening magic and foumd out wahl was immune
Hell wahl could have face laxus and then we could have easily foumd wahl lightening immunity

Etherion has no hype. it all depends on mp.
Unless of course you think tartarus lucy has comparable durability to tenrou laxus (both took formula 25)

No. All springgans have far above jura hype.
But since all bad guys starts with hype.
Remove the offset you can see avergae people like
Zancrow, rufus and wahl
Exceptional people with little bit more hype
Ultear, Minerva (her hype is power based unlike other in the list) and lacarde
And then outstanding people like
Bluenote, jura and irene

If you dont think we need to read the same manga, in the same arc, for that particular character to figure out whether wahl lightening convertor wasnt working when faced with unrecognizable input. I dont think we need to open another book or manga to try to dehype erza feat

Lol statement about jose durability

But ff gajeel took alot more from ff laxus. Hell kagura took more than jura

Ok ok. How do you know natsu (against gajeel) was stronger and by how much?

The problem with feats and hype is
You accept hype which you want. Since you already knew laxus was on whole different level from erza because of one sisterly speech. All future hype and statement muct work with that. And no need to think further here like the same erza thought natsu could handle laxus in ff arc

Feats are funny
You already know secondary characters like laxus barely get any screen time (jose and jura barely having any durabilityto speak of). So feats are also less.
But did you also notice that natsu opponents seems to have higher durability feats. That is they take alot of hits compared to gray and erza opponents. What do you think about that. Do you think all erza opponents just have low durability or is this because samurai like fight erza does (feats depends on magic type)

Think about it. How do you know gmg laxus has higher attack power than erza. Laxus took out jura after a long fight. And tempester is around natsu level.
Erza pretty much (not exactly but compared laxus fight, so kinda) one shot kagura and Minerva and took out koyoka after a long fight.
Kagura took a spell hyped by jura with no problem. Sorry to say logically speaking erza had higher attack power than gmg laxus. Only way to save laxus attack power here is just assume jura had better durability (with no feats or hype)

Current natsu couldnt evaporate water from that dragon. But previous arc one could burn time and hit zeref with infinit mp so hard that he died.
O he got boost from the guild. You mean guild building or guild members who were most likely running out of magic as well. There might be something here that might explain how erza did what even laxus or gildarts wouldnt be able to do.

O yes, you make things up so that you can get whichever conclusion you want.
I mean obviously erza grew alot more or had "external boost" which she might not keep compared to laxus who didnt grow same amount or his internal boost is well below erza "external boost". Now it make sense that alverzec arc laxus would have easily mid diff alverzec arc erza (with no internal or external boost)

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 15, 2020 ---

I know, i think END could do all that and more. Imo whatever was left of Igneel's power<END in quantity, END doesn't have IgNatsu's output, but it's not as limited a resource as Igneel's magic, END would be able to keep fighting beyond the point IgNatsu stopped.
As for comparing Base Natsu's performance to Erza vs Hist Serena or Gildarts vs Bluenote, I don't think so. Zeref was visibly exhausted from Base Natsu's onslaught, it was not a casual battle. Zeref edged out Base Natsu with his binding spell, but by that point it was already a high diff fight. Besides, I have END a close match for DF Natsu, bar him combining it with FDK.

There's nothing called "slayer advantage" for Demon or God Slayers either, it's a fan made term.
I didn't say Human Eileen's damage disappeared when she transformed, I don't know where that came from.
Wendy did for Erza against Eileen what Silver did for Gray against Mard Geer, she allowed Erza to deal damage.

Not correct
Demon and dragons are different
Normal magic work fine on demons. But they are super weak to demon slaying magic. Which they themselves dont possess.
In other words you think kayoka is stronger than silver but silver can beat kayoka with demon slaying advantage
You can build further with that and say silver had more chances of beating mard compared to koyoka

For dragons
Magic dont work
And they themselves possess dragon slaying magic.
You can't know for a fact that dragons are actually weak to dragon slaying magic. Because that is literally the only magic that works on them.
If erza with far weaker attack can hurt irene with ds. Then why couldnt aconologia casually kill igneel with just one magical attack

 

[Seven777]

Agreed with wahl cant hit above his weight

Dont think he has better feats than other average springgan

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 15, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 15, 2020 ---

That doesnt explain much.
Your reason works for immune to lightening thing. Not for machina lightening weakness. Ichiya could have randomly used lightening magic and foumd out wahl was immune
Hell wahl could have face laxus and then we could have easily foumd wahl lightening immunity

Etherion has no hype. it all depends on mp.
Unless of course you think tartarus lucy has comparable durability to tenrou laxus (both took formula 25)

No. All springgans have far above jura hype.
But since all bad guys starts with hype.
Remove the offset you can see avergae people like
Zancrow, rufus and wahl
Exceptional people with little bit more hype
Ultear, Minerva (her hype is power based unlike other in the list) and lacarde
And then outstanding people like
Bluenote, jura and irene

If you dont think we need to read the same manga, in the same arc, for that particular character to figure out whether wahl lightening convertor wasnt working when faced with unrecognizable input. I dont think we need to open another book or manga to try to dehype erza feat

Lol statement about jose durability

But ff gajeel took alot more from ff laxus. Hell kagura took more than jura

Ok ok. How do you know natsu (against gajeel) was stronger and by how much?

The problem with feats and hype is
You accept hype which you want. Since you already knew laxus was on whole different level from erza because of one sisterly speech. All future hype and statement muct work with that. And no need to think further here like the same erza thought natsu could handle laxus in ff arc

Feats are funny
You already know secondary characters like laxus barely get any screen time (jose and jura barely having any durabilityto speak of). So feats are also less.
But did you also notice that natsu opponents seems to have higher durability feats. That is they take alot of hits compared to gray and erza opponents. What do you think about that. Do you think all erza opponents just have low durability or is this because samurai like fight erza does (feats depends on magic type)

Think about it. How do you know gmg laxus has higher attack power than erza. Laxus took out jura after a long fight. And tempester is around natsu level.
Erza pretty much (not exactly but compared laxus fight, so kinda) one shot kagura and Minerva and took out koyoka after a long fight.
Kagura took a spell hyped by jura with no problem. Sorry to say logically speaking erza had higher attack power than gmg laxus. Only way to save laxus attack power here is just assume jura had better durability (with no feats or hype)

Current natsu couldnt evaporate water from that dragon. But previous arc one could burn time and hit zeref with infinit mp so hard that he died.
O he got boost from the guild. You mean guild building or guild members who were most likely running out of magic as well. There might be something here that might explain how erza did what even laxus or gildarts wouldnt be able to do.

O yes, you make things up so that you can get whichever conclusion you want.
I mean obviously erza grew alot more or had "external boost" which she might not keep compared to laxus who didnt grow same amount or his internal boost is well below erza "external boost". Now it make sense that alverzec arc laxus would have easily mid diff alverzec arc erza (with no internal or external boost)

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 15, 2020 ---

Not correct
Demon and dragons are different
Normal magic work fine on demons. But they are super weak to demon slaying magic. Which they themselves dont possess.
In other words you think kayoka is stronger than silver but silver can beat kayoka with demon slaying advantage
You can build further with that and say silver had more chances of beating mard compared to koyoka

For dragons
Magic dont work
And they themselves possess dragon slaying magic.
You can't know for a fact that dragons are actually weak to dragon slaying magic. Because that is literally the only magic that works on them.
If erza with far weaker attack can hurt irene with ds. Then why couldnt aconologia casually kill igneel with just one magical attack

Why would Ichiya randomly use lightning, a spell he's never used before and is almost entirely unrelated to his magic, on someone who didn't require it?
Etherion has no hype lol? Etherion has so much hype that half the forum thinks Wahl doesn't have the true Etherion, just some lesser version of the councils.
Like I said, Larcade
Nah, we just need to see Erza's own performance and combine that with what we know of Sema.
Yeah, I don't supposed you have one?
No he didn't, no she didn't.
Happy said so, Erza said so, enough to put him beyond Aria.
That's what you do, as you yourself admitted the last time we spoke.
Natsu always fights the toughest enemies.
Destroying Tempester>>Kagura or Minerva.
Nah, the Erza that fought Eileen would've given Laxus the same diff fight, as I said back in Alvarez.

Not against Mard Geer, Mard was no selling all attacks like it was nothing, same as the dragons do, why? Because he was leagues above who he was fighting, just like the dragons were. Dragons tank shit because they are durable, we already know for a fact that they aren't immune to magic, they just have tough scales.

 

[grey matter]

I know, i think END could do all that and more. Imo whatever was left of Igneel's power<END in quantity, END doesn't have IgNatsu's output, but it's not as limited a resource as Igneel's magic, END would be able to keep fighting beyond the point IgNatsu stopped.
As for comparing Base Natsu's performance to Erza vs Hist Serena or Gildarts vs Bluenote, I don't think so. Zeref was visibly exhausted from Base Natsu's onslaught, it was not a casual battle. Zeref edged out Base Natsu with his binding spell, but by that point it was already a high diff fight. Besides, I have END a close match for DF Natsu, bar him combining it with FDK.

There's nothing called "slayer advantage" for Demon or God Slayers either, it's a fan made term.
I didn't say Human Eileen's damage disappeared when she transformed, I don't know where that came from.
Wendy did for Erza against Eileen what Silver did for Gray against Mard Geer, she allowed Erza to deal damage.

For a moment, I thought you were saying there was no slayer advantage for demon or god slaying magic lol. Then I read the post you were responding to

 

[GL_Nova]

Agreed with wahl cant hit above his weight

Dont think he has better feats than other average springgan

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 15, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 15, 2020 ---

That doesnt explain much.
Your reason works for immune to lightening thing. Not for machina lightening weakness. Ichiya could have randomly used lightening magic and foumd out wahl was immune
Hell wahl could have face laxus and then we could have easily foumd wahl lightening immunity

Etherion has no hype. it all depends on mp.
Unless of course you think tartarus lucy has comparable durability to tenrou laxus (both took formula 25)

No. All springgans have far above jura hype.
But since all bad guys starts with hype.
Remove the offset you can see avergae people like
Zancrow, rufus and wahl
Exceptional people with little bit more hype
Ultear, Minerva (her hype is power based unlike other in the list) and lacarde
And then outstanding people like
Bluenote, jura and irene

If you dont think we need to read the same manga, in the same arc, for that particular character to figure out whether wahl lightening convertor wasnt working when faced with unrecognizable input. I dont think we need to open another book or manga to try to dehype erza feat

Lol statement about jose durability

But ff gajeel took alot more from ff laxus. Hell kagura took more than jura

Ok ok. How do you know natsu (against gajeel) was stronger and by how much?

The problem with feats and hype is
You accept hype which you want. Since you already knew laxus was on whole different level from erza because of one sisterly speech. All future hype and statement muct work with that. And no need to think further here like the same erza thought natsu could handle laxus in ff arc

Feats are funny
You already know secondary characters like laxus barely get any screen time (jose and jura barely having any durabilityto speak of). So feats are also less.
But did you also notice that natsu opponents seems to have higher durability feats. That is they take alot of hits compared to gray and erza opponents. What do you think about that. Do you think all erza opponents just have low durability or is this because samurai like fight erza does (feats depends on magic type)

Think about it. How do you know gmg laxus has higher attack power than erza. Laxus took out jura after a long fight. And tempester is around natsu level.
Erza pretty much (not exactly but compared laxus fight, so kinda) one shot kagura and Minerva and took out koyoka after a long fight.
Kagura took a spell hyped by jura with no problem. Sorry to say logically speaking erza had higher attack power than gmg laxus. Only way to save laxus attack power here is just assume jura had better durability (with no feats or hype)

Current natsu couldnt evaporate water from that dragon. But previous arc one could burn time and hit zeref with infinit mp so hard that he died.
O he got boost from the guild. You mean guild building or guild members who were most likely running out of magic as well. There might be something here that might explain how erza did what even laxus or gildarts wouldnt be able to do.

O yes, you make things up so that you can get whichever conclusion you want.
I mean obviously erza grew alot more or had "external boost" which she might not keep compared to laxus who didnt grow same amount or his internal boost is well below erza "external boost". Now it make sense that alverzec arc laxus would have easily mid diff alverzec arc erza (with no internal or external boost)

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 15, 2020 ---

Not correct
Demon and dragons are different
Normal magic work fine on demons. But they are super weak to demon slaying magic. Which they themselves dont possess.
In other words you think kayoka is stronger than silver but silver can beat kayoka with demon slaying advantage
You can build further with that and say silver had more chances of beating mard compared to koyoka

For dragons
Magic dont work
And they themselves possess dragon slaying magic.
You can't know for a fact that dragons are actually weak to dragon slaying magic. Because that is literally the only magic that works on them.
If erza with far weaker attack can hurt irene with ds. Then why couldnt aconologia casually kill igneel with just one magical attack

You can't be agreeing because that's not what I said bro. He isn't using some outside power source to cast Etherion. He can do it all by himself, effortlessly, and instantly. It's no hitting above his weight class, casting the spell casually shows that is his weight class.

 

[Ramen]

Natsu is multiversal. So is Acno and Zeref.

 

[sharkai]

You can't be agreeing because that's not what I said bro. He isn't using some outside power source to cast Etherion. He can do it all by himself, effortlessly, and instantly. It's no hitting above his weight class, casting the spell casually shows that is his weight class.

I agree because which ever weight class he belongs to (average springgans) is what he is capable of.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 16, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 16, 2020 ---

Why would Ichiya randomly use lightning, a spell he's never used before and is almost entirely unrelated to his magic, on someone who didn't require it?
Etherion has no hype lol? Etherion has so much hype that half the forum thinks Wahl doesn't have the true Etherion, just some lesser version of the councils.
Like I said, Larcade
Nah, we just need to see Erza's own performance and combine that with what we know of Sema.
Yeah, I don't supposed you have one?
No he didn't, no she didn't.
Happy said so, Erza said so, enough to put him beyond Aria.
That's what you do, as you yourself admitted the last time we spoke.
Natsu always fights the toughest enemies.
Destroying Tempester>>Kagura or Minerva.
Nah, the Erza that fought Eileen would've given Laxus the same diff fight, as I said back in Alvarez.

Not against Mard Geer, Mard was no selling all attacks like it was nothing, same as the dragons do, why? Because he was leagues above who he was fighting, just like the dragons were. Dragons tank shit because they are durable, we already know for a fact that they aren't immune to magic, they just have tough scales.

As i said, your scenario isnt explaining the weakness part.
Why ichiya even had to fight him. Have him appear for the first time infront of laxus. And explain his lightening immunity then. No need for machina lightening weakness thing at all.

Obviously. Wahl doesnt have mp of the entire continent

But you didnt say lacarde before (this just shows your leaning)

We dont know much about sema (not much is told in the manga). Of course we have to check erza performance then we rank deus sema. Interestingly enough we dont have to check natsu performance against aria to figure out anything about gajeel (why the difference here). Natsu can jump five tiers in matter of panels but erza cant

Are you sure? How many panels did jura get. What did jura endure against laxus. Can you compare that with gajeel snd laxus fight.
Kagura already took a spell that made jura sweat. And then was taken out by a attack that was far above her own sealed sword attack. Tell me what what feats laxus has of one two shotting anyone above natsu tier (not including jura, because his durability is the one we are trying to figure out)

When does natsu fight the toughest opponents. Other than his contractual obligations of boss fight

Tempester is natsu tier.
Natsu is as far below erza as he is below laxus (by portrayal and feats).
That is like me saying destroying rufus >> jura

How did you figure that one out. Eileen is tiers above wahl. Why would someone who is going toe to toe with eileen will lose high diff to the one who had problem with wahl.
Did you also say in gmg that gmg gray would beat laxus high diff?

Didnt gray just need one clear shot to take out mard?
Arent dragons normally immune to normal magic. Wouldnt they be super weak to their own magic
Can gildarts defeat ziliconus (the undressing dragon)
Why couldnt aconologia extreme low diff igneel with his magical advantage

 

[Seven777]

I agree because which ever weight class he belongs to (average springgans) is what he is capable of.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 16, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 16, 2020 ---

As i said, your scenario isnt explaining the weakness part.
Why ichiya even had to fight him. Have him appear for the first time infront of laxus. And explain his lightening immunity then. No need for machina lightening weakness thing at all.

Obviously. Wahl doesnt have mp of the entire continent

But you didnt say lacarde before (this just shows your leaning)

We dont know much about sema (not much is told in the manga). Of course we have to check erza performance then we rank deus sema. Interestingly enough we dont have to check natsu performance against aria to figure out anything about gajeel (why the difference here). Natsu can jump five tiers in matter of panels but erza cant

Are you sure? How many panels did jura get. What did jura endure against laxus. Can you compare that with gajeel snd laxus fight.
Kagura already took a spell that made jura sweat. And then was taken out by a attack that was far above her own sealed sword attack. Tell me what what feats laxus has of one two shotting anyone above natsu tier (not including jura, because his durability is the one we are trying to figure out)

When does natsu fight the toughest opponents. Other than his contractual obligations of boss fight

Tempester is natsu tier.
Natsu is as far below erza as he is below laxus (by portrayal and feats).
That is like me saying destroying rufus >> jura

How did you figure that one out. Eileen is tiers above wahl. Why would someone who is going toe to toe with eileen will lose high diff to the one who had problem with wahl.
Did you also say in gmg that gmg gray would beat laxus high diff?

Didnt gray just need one clear shot to take out mard?
Arent dragons normally immune to normal magic. Wouldnt they be super weak to their own magic
Can gildarts defeat ziliconus (the undressing dragon)
Why couldnt aconologia extreme low diff igneel with his magical advantage

-Mashima gave Ichiya a reason to use lightning in the first place, easy
-Even you yourself are so overwhelmed by Etherions hype that you don't believe Wahl has the real deal, this point here is literally you arguing that lol.
-I don't have to have said Larcade before, as long as I say it now I'm above reproach as always. Never heard of being convinced by an argument lol?
-We know that Erza is weaker than Eileen, we know that Erza broke her bones blocking a lesser attack, we know that Erza said she would die if it hit her, we know that Mashima has made lesser characters break the spell before. Given that information I feel happy with the conclusion I came to, feel free to come up with your own reason for Erza busting Eileens strongest attack when she couldn't even block a casual claw swipe, mine remains as is.
-We know why Natsu was stronger against Gajeel than Aria, the manga states it outright.
-Eating a Roar<Secret Art. Minerva's attack didn't make Jura sweat, Sema made Jura sweat.
-Beating Jura puts Laxus' offense top tier. Kagura is not above Natsu or Tempester tier, in durability or anything else.
-I was talking about boss enemies. Natsu's regular enemies don't take especially many hits, other than Gajeel and Tempester, both known for their durability.
-Because imo oneshotting Wahl and being stated to be able to oneshot Ajeel>Wendy and Erza losing to Eileen and almost losing to Ajeel.
-Gray needed DeS advantage to take out Mard, normal attacks couldn't do shit. Nah, magic works on dragons all the time, even Aldron just got injured by Zeref. As for Acno, he's a dragon too. For Gildarts vs Zirconis, Gildarts wins imo.

 

[Fyron]

I know, i think END could do all that and more. Imo whatever was left of Igneel's power<END in quantity, END doesn't have IgNatsu's output, but it's not as limited a resource as Igneel's magic, END would be able to keep fighting beyond the point IgNatsu stopped.
As for comparing Base Natsu's performance to Erza vs Hist Serena or Gildarts vs Bluenote, I don't think so. Zeref was visibly exhausted from Base Natsu's onslaught, it was not a casual battle. Zeref edged out Base Natsu with his binding spell, but by that point it was already a high diff fight. Besides, I have END a close match for DF Natsu, bar him combining it with FDK.

There's nothing called "slayer advantage" for Demon or God Slayers either, it's a fan made term.
I didn't say Human Eileen's damage disappeared when she transformed, I don't know where that came from.
Wendy did for Erza against Eileen what Silver did for Gray against Mard Geer, she allowed Erza to deal damage.

Well then that's your opinion. I think Igneel's power reserves > END if you're talking about the END that fought Gray. The END which fought Gray was only partially demonized , and I don't have him necessarily above Erza tier even in magic reserves. And I have Zeref's durability > anyone in Alvarez. Zeref needed power of the dead which was stronger than himself to kill him , and even August who was completely willing to give up his life for his papa and the strongest of the Spriggan 12 didn't help him in this regard. The entire plot of Fairy Tail is based on this fact , and it would become nonsensical garbage if we were to assume that Zeref despite having a means to die at his disposal for many years didn't do it. Only Igneel's power of the dead was capable of killing him , and he tanked it almost until the very end.

Zeref used an immobilization spell on Natsu , to which Natsu didn't have an attack strong enough to break out of , is what I'm getting at. Had he used that at the start of the fight the outcome would've been the same , because Natsu isn't going to magically get an attack strong enough to break out of that spell in base. What matters here is the nature of the spell. That spell wasn't about knocking out Natsu/testing his durability. That was about whether Natsu had an attack strong enough to break out of it in base , which he either does or he doesn't. Also I can point out that Gildarts and Acnologia were bloodlusted in their fights and still struggled against their opponents. Also no , I think DF Natsu >>> END Natsu. END , even at full power only had the hype to kill Zeref. ( If you believe it but as @Axiomus pointed out even that isn't mentioned by Zeref ) DF at full power lets you transform into an Acnologia level dragon. Acnologia level >>> Zeref level. Partial Dragonization >>> Partial Demonization.

Sure , but demon or god slayers aren't explicitly stated to have their powers been enchanted from demons or gods. Dragon slayers are. For all we know , that particular type of magic could be letting them slay gods/demons , which is more than likely considering how Silver was the only user of magic while the rest of the etherious used curses. Him turning into a demon is more likely a side effect of DeS.

I'm saying that Human Irene's damage didn't disappear so as to give an explanation as to why Dragon Irene getting oneshotted by PoF Erza isn't that strange.

She allowed Erza to deal damage in the sense she allowed her to bypass her scales. The potency of the attack was Erza's.

 

[Ramen]

-Mashima gave Ichiya a reason to use lightning in the first place, easy
-Even you yourself are so overwhelmed by Etherions hype that you don't believe Wahl has the real deal, this point here is literally you arguing that lol.
-I don't have to have said Larcade before, as long as I say it now I'm above reproach as always. Never heard of being convinced by an argument lol?
-We know that Erza is weaker than Eileen, we know that Erza broke her bones blocking a lesser attack, we know that Erza said she would die if it hit her, we know that Mashima has made lesser characters break the spell before. Given that information I feel happy with the conclusion I came to, feel free to come up with your own reason for Erza busting Eileens strongest attack when she couldn't even block a casual claw swipe, mine remains as is.
-We know why Natsu was stronger against Gajeel than Aria, the manga states it outright.
-Eating a Roar<Secret Art. Minerva's attack didn't make Jura sweat, Sema made Jura sweat.
-Beating Jura puts Laxus' offense top tier. Kagura is not above Natsu or Tempester tier, in durability or anything else.
-I was talking about boss enemies. Natsu's regular enemies don't take especially many hits, other than Gajeel and Tempester, both known for their durability.
-Because imo oneshotting Wahl and being stated to be able to oneshot Ajeel>Wendy and Erza losing to Eileen and almost losing to Ajeel.
-Gray needed DeS advantage to take out Mard, normal attacks couldn't do shit. Nah, magic works on dragons all the time, even Aldron just got injured by Zeref. As for Acno, he's a dragon too. For Gildarts vs Zirconis, Gildarts wins imo.

Yea I also agree with the bold. At this point, I think the top tiers of FT and Spriggans can take out the GMG dragons.