Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

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Shinuki no Reborn

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MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #51 - VOTING!​

The poll for issue #51 is now open, vote for your favorite chapters of the week clicking HERE!

Alongside the release of Sakamoto Days, the extra series this week are:

-Dragon Ball Super 66
-Boruto: Naruto Next Generations 52
-Ghost Reaper Girl 10


Good Votes!
 
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Halloween

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Moderator Notice:
Henceforth, I will be deleting posts that complain about Weekly Shonen Jump having too many/not enough gag/battle/exorcism/sports/etc series.

These posts are not insightful, and do not meaningfully contribute to this thread. Also, this decision is not up for discussion, so posts discussing this decision will also be deleted.~ Halloween
 
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Ryuusei

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呪 僕 O マ ブ S C D 破 C B 夜 C 僕 あ 灼 ぼ チ 高 ア 森 A 仄 ぼ 次号カラー ヒロアカ アンデラ 夜桜 約ネバ 道産子 GIGA 岸本先生が描くコラボポスター 爆豪クリアファイル
Jujutsu Kaisen (Cover & LCP)
My Hero Academia
One Piece
Mashle
Black Clover
Sakamoto Days (CP)
Dr. Stone
Magu-chan: God of Destruction (CP)
Build King
Mission: Yozakura Family
Me & Roboco
Ayakashi Triangle (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai
We Never Learn
Chainsaw Man
Koukousei Kazoku
Undead Unluck
Moriking
Agravity Boys
Honomieru Shounen
Bokura no Ketsumei

Issue #1
Cover & LCP: My Hero Academia
CP: Undead Unluck, Mission: Yozakura Family, The Promised Neverland, Dosanko Gyaru wa Namaramenkoi

GIGA Preview
Collab poster by Kishimoto
Bakugou clear file
 
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dynassie

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has manga plus said anything about translating tamura's new series yet? i noticed that the twitter account's usual message is absent despite them usually announcing new translations earlier
 

Serinox

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Isn't Luffy an adult?
Denji too?
Hinata too?
Luffy is still just 19 afaik, so not an adult. Denji is like 16-17, so also not an adult. Hinata only became one very recently.
 

Pietro

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Great start for Bone collection
its really astounishing its ranking, the new series are doing great for sure
 

4Eyes

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Great start for Bone collection
its really astounishing its ranking, the new series are doing great for sure
Are they? There's something I want to bring up. I feel like TOCs are less and less important for determine the success of a series and my interest in them has greatly declined the past year. I wonder what changed in the ranking system but it doesn't feel accurate anymore. Sales seems to be a better measure now. What do you think?

If at least they released the number of digital sales....
 

AbrahamOmosun

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Are they? There's something I want to bring up. I feel like TOCs are less and less important for determine the success of a series and my interest in them has greatly declined the past year. I wonder what changed in the ranking system but it doesn't feel accurate anymore. Sales seems to be a better measure now. What do you think?

If at least they released the number of digital sales....
Weren't sales always a more accurate measure of success ?
 

James Rye

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Are they? There's something I want to bring up. I feel like TOCs are less and less important for determine the success of a series and my interest in them has greatly declined the past year. I wonder what changed in the ranking system but it doesn't feel accurate anymore. Sales seems to be a better measure now. What do you think?

If at least they released the number of digital sales....
Isn't that because we got too many not really established series atm? A lot of the older established series finish and are replaced by not ranked series who when they rank have even more not ranked series to account for. In a couple months the TOC will be more reliable to guess success once we are to a lesser amount of new series per year than we are currently at in 2020. Like isn't 2020 at least top5 with most new series debuting in WSJ?
 

Koni

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Are they? There's something I want to bring up. I feel like TOCs are less and less important for determine the success of a series and my interest in them has greatly declined the past year. I wonder what changed in the ranking system but it doesn't feel accurate anymore. Sales seems to be a better measure now. What do you think?

If at least they released the number of digital sales....
I always felt as if sales were more important. The way I see things, TOC is an indicator of what Shueisha wants to promote that week. This matters more for new series, since usually, if Shueisha wants to promote them more, that that should mean it's doing well with readers. However, if you're more established, the rankings don't matter as you already have an established audience that will read your series no matter where it's placed. To compound upon this, rankings are relative, and considering there's no many newbies out, it's possible that a series could rank high - mostly because it's simply doing better than other newbies.

However, Shueisha can promote things as much as they want. If what they promote isn't selling, then it ultimately doesn't matter. Cause it's not making money, and the volume sales are where the real profits can be made. Again, I bring up Samurai 8. Shueisha promoted it heavily, ESPECIALLY when the first two volumes released, but it didn't sell. So it was axed in 5.
 

wothab

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A series might rank low with the actual magazine readers, but might sell well with Tankōbon buyers, it makes no sense to axe a series since it makes shueisha money, but it makes no sense to promote it either since magazine readers won't care, I always looked at the infamous bakuman explanation of ToC with a very big grain of salt because it makes little financial sense to me.
The only point I see that makes sense to axe a selling manga is if you believe that magazine sales will increase if you open a manga slot and try for something more popular in such a way that it will cover the tankobon sales of the axed series.
Specially considering that, im pretty positive that investing in a new series is much more costly than maintaining an old one.
 

WyldViolet

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ToC (even if not an exact ranking) can provide an accurate reading of a series fate in certain cases that sales won't quite give you.
For example; long runners like Reborn!, Nurahiyon, Shaman King sold well, yet spent most of their time in the bottom before cancellation.
Jump will cancel series that are still making money for them if they think there's an opportunity to make more money (series has stagnated, magazine too full of established series, etc.)
Series that are almost exclusively in the bottom (unless they're gag)for an extended period of time are clearly having their eminent cancellations telegraphed.
 
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WyldViolet

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Were they really cancelled though?
Just because you liked them doesn't mean they weren't cancelled.
All three wouldn't have been in the bottom for months and months and had rushed conclusions if they weren't axed.
Nurahiyon wasn't even allowed to end in Jump, and Takei didn't even get to end his series (initially).
 

Thundercat27

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Were they really cancelled though?
well, being placed bottom could be a subtle hint for mangaka to hurry up and finish it, hence a shit-ton of rush ending
is that really cancel?
is that really not cancel?
maybe somewhere in between
 

SharkBait

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Just because you liked them doesn't mean they weren't cancelled.
All three wouldn't have been in the bottom for months and months and had rushed conclusions (Takei didn't even get one) if they weren't axed.
I only read KHR :( but I thought it ended where she wanted it to end, and based on her manga output since then, I think she definitely did want to end it there and take it easy with her family.
 

WyldViolet

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I only read KHR :( but I thought it ended where she wanted it to end, and based on her manga output since then, I think she definitely did want to end it there and take it easy with her family.
I've also read KhR.
The series had been in the bottom for forever, had its anime long gone by that point, and there were tons of loose ends in the story. Also, Tsuna didn't have any growth whatsoever (however the latter point may have been intentional).
Series was totally cancelled.
Clearly Shueshia didn't want her to leave the company though, because shortly afterwards they had her new series El Dlive attempt to become the flagship series of Jump+'s predecessor Jump Live. Wasn't very good though imo. Still surprised it got an anime. Regardless, she must not have cared too much about spending time with family given the next year she had that new series, and was the character designer for Psycho Pass.
 

Reading Somethin'

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What about Gintama? IMO, I would definitely count Gintama among the series that work and don't decrease in quality despite its length.
I was only counting serious manga.

This is your opinion some people like long shounen some peopel don't.

Some people think one piece, naruto and bleach have declined in quality some people don't.

Some people think the war arc is peak naruto some people don't.

Some people think reading weekly is dumb some people don't. (for example one piece or naruto are way better binged than read weekly half of the problem with dressrosa or the war arc dissappear when you binge read it).

People enjoy different things, and quality is hard to judge because when you are enjoying something you tend to ignore its flaws(hunterxhunter, jojo's, one piece all their fans usually ignore their flaws)
Even though this is technically true, it's a catch-all kind of argument. People refer to general reception and acclaim.

Are they? There's something I want to bring up. I feel like TOCs are less and less important for determine the success of a series and my interest in them has greatly declined the past year. I wonder what changed in the ranking system but it doesn't feel accurate anymore. Sales seems to be a better measure now. What do you think?

If at least they released the number of digital sales....
I'd say sales still don't matter as much as the toc while running. Mashle got good toc positions and its' volume sold well. Yaiba had great toc positions and has reached higher peaks than all the manga of the previous era.
 

wothab

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I'd say sales still don't matter as much as the toc while running. Mashle got good toc positions and its' volume sold well. Yaiba had great toc positions and has reached higher peaks than all the manga of the previous era.
Yaiba was a mid-toc series on average before the anime though iirc.
 

4Eyes

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Yeah, sales were always more accurate than TOC. The thing I'm trying to say is that the WSJ TOC is less and less accurate as time goes by. As it's not a reliable ranking anymore and editors are interfering more on the series placements like other magazines do.

ToC (even if not an exact ranking) can provide an accurate reading of a series fate in certain cases that sales won't quite give you.
For example; long runners like Reborn!, Nurahiyon no Magico, Shaman King sold well, yet spent most of their time in the bottom before cancellation.
Jump will cancel series that are still making money for them if they think there's an opportunity to make more money (series has stagnated, magazine too full of established series, etc.)
Series that are almost exclusively in the bottom (unless they're gag)for an extended period of time are clearly having their eminent cancellations telegraphed.
These series were canceled long ago. Does the same rule still applies? I don't think editors let successful series sit at the bottom anymore. Black Clover and Act-Age seem to be frequently bouncing around bottom and high placements, for instance.
 

wothab

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These series were canceled long ago. Does the same rule still applies? I don't think editors let successful series sit at the bottom anymore. Black Clover and Act-Age seem to be frequently bouncing around bottom and high placements, for instance.
My impression nowadays is that they have a "always top" and "always bottom" list and everything that is in-between they manipulate freely based on a rotation. So they probably work with an internal tiered system.
 
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