Discussion Unpopular Opinions

goldb

Strongest Under the Sun
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
27,709
Reaction score
27,506
Gender
Male
Country
United Kingdom
Keep it OP please, if you want to discuss OP vs Naruto go to the Otaku Café and make a thread there if there isn't already one. I'll leave your posts so you can use it as quotes if needed.
 

thedude

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2014
Messages
2,256
Reaction score
3,045
Gender
Male
Country
United States
OK, back on topic. I think this is maybe an unpopular opinion:

I think Luffy will live at the end, and I think too many fans think the only way a story can end is through the lead characters death, which is very limiting to a story. Luffy will live!
 

slavkovski

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
852
Reaction score
523
Gender
Male
Country
Indonesia
Unpopular Opinion = Zoro and Sanji as a rival and close in overall power are just a Gag, zoro and sanji are not close, yes sanji are still the third strongest Strawhats (before jinbei join btw) but not as close as people claim it.. every thing that shows that sanji and zoro are close in power are all just a Gag, their real difference in power are shown in thriller back with the kuma thing, it took only one hit from zoro to make sanji pass out, while zoro could take all of luffy's pain and still standing...
 

thedude

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2014
Messages
2,256
Reaction score
3,045
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Unpopular Opinion = Zoro and Sanji as a rival and close in overall power are just a Gag, zoro and sanji are not close, yes sanji are still the third strongest Strawhats (before jinbei join btw) but not as close as people claim it.. every thing that shows that sanji and zoro are close in power are all just a Gag, their real difference in power are shown in thriller back with the kuma thing, it took only one hit from zoro to make sanji pass out, while zoro could take all of luffy's pain and still standing...
On these boards, isn't that a popular opinion? SWORDBOIS ASSEMBLE! lol

I don't put much stock in random feats of durability. Zoro was just knocked out from a much smaller wound than he took at Thriller Bark, and he was completely healthy prior to it.

And not everything showing them close in power is a gag. They fought Kaku and Jabra, two guys Oda explicitly showed to be equal in power, with a number scale and everything. That is about as non-gag as you can get.
 

slavkovski

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
852
Reaction score
523
Gender
Male
Country
Indonesia
On these boards, isn't that a popular opinion? SWORDBOIS ASSEMBLE! lol

I don't put much stock in random feats of durability. Zoro was just knocked out from a much smaller wound than he took at Thriller Bark, and he was completely healthy prior to it.

And not everything showing them close in power is a gag. They fought Kaku and Jabra, two guys Oda explicitly showed to be equal in power, with a number scale and everything. That is about as non-gag as you can get.
Actually when i wrote that it is crossed my mind about the ennies lobby thing.. and i just thought since oda doesnt actually use that kind of power level ever again he maybe just change his mind? Lol
He maybe at first want to make them little bit close in power.. but.. since it will be bad for zoro, a man who keep on training, have a goal to become the strongest swordsman, to be close in power to someone who barely train and have a goal to be the best cook in the world...
 

thedude

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2014
Messages
2,256
Reaction score
3,045
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Actually when i wrote that it is crossed my mind about the ennies lobby thing.. and i just thought since oda doesnt actually use that kind of power level ever again he maybe just change his mind? Lol
He maybe at first want to make them little bit close in power.. but.. since it will be bad for zoro, a man who keep on training, have a goal to become the strongest swordsman, to be close in power to someone who barely train and have a goal to be the best cook in the world...
I don't think Oda thinks in terms of "what will be bad to Zoro". He has still given them the same friendly sibling rivalry in the timeskip, such as Zoro telling the crew not to worry about the Swirly Brow Pirates, Sanji was with them, when they landed on Zou and saw the destruction.
 

woefdram

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
331
Reaction score
470
Gender
Male
Country
Netherlands
Unpopular opinion: the shichibukai are only slightly less powerful than the yonkou

- they used to be one of the three great powers
- the power of the yonkou has been greatly exaggerated on this forum
- if the circumstances are right some shichibukai could hold their own against a yonkou (shanks Vs mihawk, crocodile's insanely powerful df etc.)
 
Last edited:

goldb

Strongest Under the Sun
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
27,709
Reaction score
27,506
Gender
Male
Country
United Kingdom
Unpopular opinion: the shichibukai are only slightly less powerful than the yonkou

- they used to be one of the three great powers
- the power of the yonkou has been greatly exaggerated on this forum
- if the circumstances are right some shichibukai could hold their own against a yonkou (shanks Vs mihawk, crocodile's insanely powerful df etc.)
Highlighted portion: In what way? They are very strong pirates; their notoriety would suggest the strongest pirates. You can't amass the sort of territory and crew that they have without actual fighting prowess.
Take Big Mom for example, even if she's shown as goofy now but look at the portrayal of her character in WCI. We're shown the local territory she rules over and how well its set up to function( in terms of hierarchy, local governance to military forces), then you see the crew behind her and powerful they are; not only her children but allied crews too. You also see the sort of people who attend her tea parties; underworld bosses too afraid of the repercussions of rejecting any invitation.

It's not a position given to just anyone and its definitely not for the faint hearted. It takes time, a certain level of ambition, power and wielding said power to influence people to bend to your will and be subjugated.

If circumstances are right, anyone stands a chance against anyone else. Circumstance is a very broad term and therefore it can be anything. Though you're right, some like Mihawk shines brighters and stands out in that group compared to the likes of Buggy for example, so he can definitely make his case in a 1v1 situation.

As an entity (and being part of that Three Great Powers dynamic) the Shichibukai helped in keeping the balance against the yonkou...alongside the Marines. So it's 2 powers joining to "nullify" one, so I wouldn't say they are slightly less powerful than the yonkou as a unit; as I don't give them a chance if it's their entity against all of the yonkou.

What I took from the war at Marineford is that together, the Marines and Shichibukai can take on a yonkou and their crew, but I wouldn't guarantee them victory against 2 yonkou crews. So the power balance for me considers suppression of just about a single yonkou (because these emperors never make any rash moves against each other or territory), so the WG has not had to worry about all 4 fighting each other; because that would be the end of the world and even with 2 of the powers, they wouldn't be able to handle that.
 

woefdram

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
331
Reaction score
470
Gender
Male
Country
Netherlands
Well reasoned. Thanks for that.

The highlighted part was a bit slanted I have to admit, but stems from a lot of discussions I've read on this forum that seem to imply gargantuan leaps of strength with each new enemy.

I don't feel that's the case and that, while the time skip has made everybody stronger, the leap isn't that great... This is not Dragonball.

So yes, they are the strongest, but that doesn't automatically mean they will one shot a shichibukai or beat them with no effort at all.

As for marineford...tough one. I would say I agree with you, but almost all the shichibukai came without their crew while WB had his crew and extended fleet there. So would the presence of Dofi's crew, the kuja tribe etc. helped change this? Also, two of the seven didn't participate (Jinbe and BB) in the war.
 

kkck

Waifu Slayer
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
46,361
Reaction score
24,975
Gender
Hidden
Country
Fire Nation
Honestly, the shichibukai's strength is something which oda simply mishandled... Because as the series went on their existence made less and less sense. And not only because they were actively harming the world, oda simply didn't develop them in a way which actually justifies them as one of the 3 great powers. We have had several iterations of shichibukai:

1.- Mihawk, jinbe, hancock, moria, crocodile, kuma, doflamingo.
2.- Mihawk, jinbe, hancock, moria, blackbeard, kuma, doflamingo.
3.- Mihawk, buggy, hancock, weevil, law, kuma, doflamingo.
4.- Mihawk, buggy, hancock, weevil, kuma

Now.... at what point does it make a shred of sense for any iteration of this group to be a force comparable to either the marines or just one yonko crew? Based on what we have seen so far the marines are a massive organization with extremely powerful warriors. The fleet admiral, admirals are powerful by top yonko commander standards at least. And the VAs are numerous and skilled warriors. I would go as far as making the case that vice admirals are basically the marine's backbone and their stronger members are basically the marine's response to yonko commanders (though not necessarily top yonko commanders).

And on the other hand you have the yonko. yonko crews have a basic structure so far, though each one has its own quirks: At the top a yonko that towers over its crewmembers. Then usually top 3 executives and a handful or two of executives who are very powerful in general. And then there are other minions who are usually affiliated crews. And their strength can vary from yonko commander to pretty weak. Overall each yonko has massive organizations behind them.

Based on what we saw at marineford... We kinda need to factor in even hype for any one shichibukai to be admiral level. Well, BB eventually became a yonko but I doubt he had that level at marineford. He might have that power now though. From the shichibukai in general... Honestly the only original shichibukai that looks like he might be yonko level is maybe mihawk, assuming he can still hold a candle to shanks. And even then we have to consider shanks probably does not rank very highly among the yonko. IMO kaido and big mom are more powerful than him.. Hancock by hype alone appears to be extremely powerful as well. And then... Moria and crocodile do not appear particularly powerful. Moria was "fired" from his position on account of his weakness even. Doflamingo in turn appears to be about as strong as maybe the weakest of a yonko's top 3. And even that is optimistic. I don't think doflamingo would win against cracker or vista at least. Kuma seems pretty powerful but its hard to place him anywhere tbh. No real reference of where he ranks. All we know is that Iva can hold his own against him and even that is not much of a reference. jinbe is pretty strong but IMO he ranks at about mid tier yonko executives, just about beneath yonko's top 3.

Overall, the shichibukai appear to be weaker than a single yonko's main executives. Granted that the 7 in any iteration are an extremely powerful group but they just can't be single handedly as strong as even one yonko crew, let alone all 4 of them. And its utterly absurd that they are a force comparable to the marines, which actually manage to contain the yonko's power and influence of 4 yonko within the new world. The problem the marines have in this regard is that they can't actually gather all their firepower to take out the yonko as that would leave massive amounts of territory unprotected.
 

thedude

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2014
Messages
2,256
Reaction score
3,045
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Honestly, the shichibukai's strength is something which oda simply mishandled... Because as the series went on their existence made less and less sense. And not only because they were actively harming the world, oda simply didn't develop them in a way which actually justifies them as one of the 3 great powers. We have had several iterations of shichibukai:

1.- Mihawk, jinbe, hancock, moria, crocodile, kuma, doflamingo.
2.- Mihawk, jinbe, hancock, moria, blackbeard, kuma, doflamingo.
3.- Mihawk, buggy, hancock, weevil, law, kuma, doflamingo.
4.- Mihawk, buggy, hancock, weevil, kuma

Now.... at what point does it make a shred of sense for any iteration of this group to be a force comparable to either the marines or just one yonko crew? Based on what we have seen so far the marines are a massive organization with extremely powerful warriors. The fleet admiral, admirals are powerful by top yonko commander standards at least. And the VAs are numerous and skilled warriors. I would go as far as making the case that vice admirals are basically the marine's backbone and their stronger members are basically the marine's response to yonko commanders (though not necessarily top yonko commanders).

And on the other hand you have the yonko. yonko crews have a basic structure so far, though each one has its own quirks: At the top a yonko that towers over its crewmembers. Then usually top 3 executives and a handful or two of executives who are very powerful in general. And then there are other minions who are usually affiliated crews. And their strength can vary from yonko commander to pretty weak. Overall each yonko has massive organizations behind them.

Based on what we saw at marineford... We kinda need to factor in even hype for any one shichibukai to be admiral level. Well, BB eventually became a yonko but I doubt he had that level at marineford. He might have that power now though. From the shichibukai in general... Honestly the only original shichibukai that looks like he might be yonko level is maybe mihawk, assuming he can still hold a candle to shanks. And even then we have to consider shanks probably does not rank very highly among the yonko. IMO kaido and big mom are more powerful than him.. Hancock by hype alone appears to be extremely powerful as well. And then... Moria and crocodile do not appear particularly powerful. Moria was "fired" from his position on account of his weakness even. Doflamingo in turn appears to be about as strong as maybe the weakest of a yonko's top 3. And even that is optimistic. I don't think doflamingo would win against cracker or vista at least. Kuma seems pretty powerful but its hard to place him anywhere tbh. No real reference of where he ranks. All we know is that Iva can hold his own against him and even that is not much of a reference. jinbe is pretty strong but IMO he ranks at about mid tier yonko executives, just about beneath yonko's top 3.

Overall, the shichibukai appear to be weaker than a single yonko's main executives. Granted that the 7 in any iteration are an extremely powerful group but they just can't be single handedly as strong as even one yonko crew, let alone all 4 of them. And its utterly absurd that they are a force comparable to the marines, which actually manage to contain the yonko's power and influence of 4 yonko within the new world. The problem the marines have in this regard is that they can't actually gather all their firepower to take out the yonko as that would leave massive amounts of territory unprotected.
I'll always say - Shanks has to rank VERY high on the Yonko scale. He's the most human sized, no devil fruit, and a crew like Luffy's...and yet! He is a Yonko. He has the respect of WB and the WG. BM stated that if only Lola had married the giant she was arranged to, she could have defeated the other Yonko crews, naming Shanks specifically.

Given what we know about crew size and the strength of the top levels (ie, YC's, next level like Tobi Roppo or Big Mom's strong kids like Daifuku and Oven, etc), it stands to reason that the only way Shanks can possibly be considered a Yonko with that tiny crew is for Shanks himself to just be incredibly strong, as well as having the strongest commanders.

A weak Shanks is not turning Kaido away from heading to Marineford. A weak Shanks with a dozen or so crew members isn't making BB and the WG say "yeah..maybe we should end this now..."

I put Shanks as the top Yonko strength wise.
 

kkck

Waifu Slayer
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
46,361
Reaction score
24,975
Gender
Hidden
Country
Fire Nation
I'll always say - Shanks has to rank VERY high on the Yonko scale. He's the most human sized, no devil fruit, and a crew like Luffy's...and yet! He is a Yonko. He has the respect of WB and the WG. BM stated that if only Lola had married the giant she was arranged to, she could have defeated the other Yonko crews, naming Shanks specifically.

Given what we know about crew size and the strength of the top levels (ie, YC's, next level like Tobi Roppo or Big Mom's strong kids like Daifuku and Oven, etc), it stands to reason that the only way Shanks can possibly be considered a Yonko with that tiny crew is for Shanks himself to just be incredibly strong, as well as having the strongest commanders.

A weak Shanks is not turning Kaido away from heading to Marineford. A weak Shanks with a dozen or so crew members isn't making BB and the WG say "yeah..maybe we should end this now..."

I put Shanks as the top Yonko strength wise.
My current assumptions/ideas about shanks are more or less like this:

SHanks probably also has crews affiliated to his own. Otherwise there would be no way for his crew alone to be able to stand up to other yonko. Regardless of how strong his crewmembers are, through sheer numbers he'd be overwhelmed. When it comes to crews, individual strength matters but the series has also stressed that military might is important. Ships, amount of ships, how powerful are their weapons, numbers... Big mom, kaido and BB are strong because each commands gigantic criminal empires with hundreds of followers. Based on how the series has shown the yonko, 12 people can't make a yonko.

Shanks' crewmembers are almost certainly strong by yonko executive standards, going by the comments about how his crew has high counties across the board. And perhaps in stark contrast to big mom's crew having relatively low bounties (1.08 billion, 930 mil, 830 mil, 700 mil, 600 mil, 300 mil). This probably compensates for shanks being not quite as powerful as the other yonko.

Strength alone wouldn't give shanks the means to have a chat with the gorosei. It alone would also not get him an iota of respect. Akainu is freaking fleet admiral and he can't even get the pretense of respect from the gorosei... Let alone actual respect like shanks has.
 

Sachsenhesse

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
2,842
Reaction score
3,656
Age
39
Gender
Male
Country
Germany
You all forget in your shichi vs. yonkou discussion the different jobs they have. Shichis arent hired for New World Combatants, they are there to pick one pirates in the first half of the grandline so that the marines dont need to divide their forces.
 

kkck

Waifu Slayer
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
46,361
Reaction score
24,975
Gender
Hidden
Country
Fire Nation
You all forget in your shichi vs. yonkou discussion the different jobs they have. Shichis arent hired for New World Combatants, they are there to pick one pirates in the first half of the grandline so that the marines dont need to divide their forces.
The shichibukai were not expected to actually do anything. We even know they hardly show up when called. To get them all to marineford the WG had to threaten them with taking away their title... The only shichibukai that largely cooperated with the world government was kuma and even that backfired.
 
Top