One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Rob Gucci]

 

[nik87]

At least, Shiki confirms one thing, Garp and Sengoku are not on Roger's level, as expected from weaponless combatants.

 

[King Moe]

At least, Shiki confirms one thing, Garp and Sengoku are not on Roger's level, as expected from weaponless combatants.

Then Shiki got beaten by weaponless Luffy though. So again, doesn't matter who has weapon or not and Idk you use movie as canon as that one is not fully canon all around even involve Strong World. Pretty sure Oda have differences in manga how Shiki was.

 

[M3J]

Only 3 individuals were capable of beating Pica in DR - Zoro, Law and Fujitora. Not only a high DC capability is required, which very few have, but also the effectiveness of cutting Pica off from the ground in single attack otherwise he escapes.

Didn't Luffy use an AOE attack against Doflamingo? He definitely has the ability to beat Pica because of Gear 3 and 4.

 

[nik87]

Didn't Luffy use an AOE attack against Doflamingo? He definitely has the ability to beat Pica because of Gear 3 and 4.

Which AoE?
His punches arent even close to King's Punch, he simply cannot trap Pica. Only the 3 swordsmen are able to do it effectively.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Didn't Luffy use an AOE attack against Doflamingo? He definitely has the ability to beat Pica because of Gear 3 and 4.

He likes to ignore Orlobus's role in Zoro's defeat of Pica but we know the truth. Without Orlumbus, Pica would have just retreated like he would against anyone else.

Pica's defeat was highly circumstantial and relied on outside help for Zoro to get enough of a drop on Pica's to get the win.

Any competent NW veteran level or above easily no diff's Pica with help equal to the help Zoro got.

 

[Fox666]

He likes to ignore Orlobus's role in Zoro's defeat of Pica but we know the truth. Without Orlumbus, Pica would have just retreated like he would against anyone else.

Pica's defeat was highly circumstantial and relied on outside help for Zoro to get enough of a drop on Pica's to get the win.

To be fair, Pica tricked Zoro to get away so he could kill King Riku.

It's not like Zoro needed Orlumbus help to defeat Pica in a fight, but to protect King Riku and the others.

 

[Pirate Queen]

To be fair, Pica tricked Zoro to get away so he could kill King Riku.

It's not like Zoro needed Orlumbus help to defeat Pica in a fight, but to protect King Riku and the others.

That doesn't change the fact at all.

Help was used and it was basically a cheap shot. Pica wasn't aware Zoro was gunna attack until it was too late. Like you said Pica's focus was on the king.

When face to face with Zoro, Pica had no problem evading into stone. It was only after he was caught unaware was Zoro give the oppourinuty to truly end it.

Without that outside help Riku would have been killed.

Defeating Pica the way Zoro did (flying through the air at outrageous speeds) could only have been done with outside assistance or Pica would have just remained focused on Zprp and hidden in stone as his did the majority of the fight

Pica isn't aware he has to hide in the stone because his focus isn't on Zoro.

I'm not taking away from Zoro's feat as he did cut was essentially a small mountain. But thats not what is being discussed.

 

[Aki1991]

Can we please stop to discuss again about Zolo? It is so f... annoying. Check the last 150 pages. Everything was said already.

I'll try to switch the topic to Marineford, since I am reading the manga again and I currently at the end of volume 59.

Where would you rank old Whitebeard? Was he still stronger than the othe Yonkos? I think he was still the strongest despite his age.

I've also noticed that the admirals were op in the Manga. Why are they so underestimated?

 

[nik87]

To be fair, Pica tricked Zoro to get away so he could kill King Riku.

It's not like Zoro needed Orlumbus help to defeat Pica in a fight, but to protect King Riku and the others.

My man fox dropping some facts.
Orlumbus was only needed to save King's plateau, nothing else.
Even without cheap shot on the golem, chances are 50/50 that Pica will be in the upper half of the stone, it doesnt change the fact that only the 3 swordsmen had the ability to effectively separate Pica from the ground in a single attack.

 

[King Moe]

Can we please stop to discuss again about Zolo? It is so f... annoying. Check the last 150 pages. Everything was said already.

I'll try to switch the topic to Marineford, since I am reading the manga again and I currently at the end of volume 59.

Where would you rank old Whitebeard? Was he still stronger than the othe Yonkos? I think he was still the strongest despite his age.

I've also noticed that the admirals were op in the Manga. Why are they so underestimated?

Probably is or they can all match him as might not be as strong as PK lvl before or at least what he had took away some of his strength he usually have in old age too. He was no joke and if he was healthy, he would be more dangerous than what he shown in MarineFord.

 

[M3J]

Which AoE?
His punches arent even close to King's Punch, he simply cannot trap Pica. Only the 3 swordsmen are able to do it effectively.

Didn't his final punch to Doflamingo also damage the city? But Luffy can deal damage with Gear 3 and haki.

 

[nik87]

Didn't his final punch to Doflamingo also damage the city? But Luffy can deal damage with Gear 3 and haki.

And which one of those is effectively cutting Pica off from the ground?

 

[Brandish μ]

No, that's not how it works. They have 1 shot to cut him off from the ground or he is gone.
Neither have anything in their arsenal to match the King's Punch and even that wasnt effective in trapping Pica.
The key issue is separating the golem from the ground and Zoro did it in one slash, that's something Luffy and Sabo cannot do.

Pica running away is not his loss, that's his strength. Yes, he is scrub to them but they are not effective in cornering him.
That's why only 3 individuals were capable of doing it.

Well, I tend to think running away counts as a loss, unless there's some plot reasons. Since there's none here, Pica only has the option of running. If he stays in the vicinity of Luffy or Sabo he will taste defeat shortly, so Pica's only option is to throw the fight / run away. Luffy and Sabo have DC and AoE on Zoro's level, and then some. Luffy and Sabo are stronger than Zoro - I know you see otherwise but I feel like my claim is very much a fact.

I don't give credit to characters who can run away, or fly away. Because they are taking the L route by doing that. Their strength is they can run away which helps them survive but not fight battles - combat ability is what we should be interested in. So Pica definitely has evasion thanks to his fruit, but it really doesn't help him offensively against the stronger combatants imo.

 

[nik87]

Well, I tend to think running away counts as a loss, unless there's some plot reasons. Since there's none here, Pica only has the option of running. If he stays in the vicinity of Luffy or Sabo he will taste defeat shortly, so Pica's only option is to throw the fight / run away. Luffy and Sabo have DC and AoE on Zoro's level, and then some. Luffy and Sabo are stronger than Zoro - I know you see otherwise but I feel like my claim is very much a fact.

I don't give credit to characters who can run away, or fly away. Because they are taking the L route by doing that. Their strength is they can run away which helps them survive but not fight battles - combat ability is what we should be interested in. So Pica definitely has evasion thanks to his fruit, but it really doesn't help him offensively against the stronger combatants imo.

Pica hiding in stone is not a loss. That is his ability. Is Cracker hiding behind biscuits considered a loss? It isnt.
Pica can as well be in the ground beneath Luffy and Sabo and attack them with Charlestone move and they wont be able to get him in thousands of years.
However, let's focus on Golem above the ground and let's say Pica goes into ground only to create a new Golem when old one is destroyed.

Luffy is very bad in AoE, that has been cemented in his fight against both Cracker and Katakuri. He cant come close to Zoro in AoE's. Sabo can but his AoE's are inferior to Zoro's, I havent seen a flamethrower go through a frickin mountain yet, even Kaido's Borobreath only destroys a small part of a hill.

I could give Sabo the benefit of the doubt to be stronger than Zoro at this point but once Wano is over, that option is gone. Luffy on the other hand, no chance. Luffy's fights need way too much pampering to fit them just right how Luffy needs, only to win extreme dif or pull a draw, with help...
Zoro is a completely different beast who only had one extreme diff fight in the entire manga, he is simply too effective compared to Luffy.

Pica isnt running away, he is hiding and going into the ground while knowing that he will be trapped if he doesnt, cant be held against him.
You are asking him to stay and wait until Luffy breaks off the golem from the ground, assuming he can even do that before Golem falls on the ground, so he could get to him and why would Pica sabotage himself?

Biscuits didnt help Cracker offensively either against G4, he didnt stop using them. Why would he? Pica is the master of the stalling game, just dodging his Charlestone attack will eventually tire people out. If Cracker can get exhausted from clapping his hands, so can Pica exhaust people with such an attack...

 

[HereNThere]

So with Oda's apparent recent willingness to show that ladies can indeed get down and dirty with straight up fisticuffs, are we expecting Robin and Nami to throw down more or show more physical feats of strength?

Nothing extreme of course, given their style of fighting and character, but maybe they'll be put in a position to show that, while they aren't as strong as their top peers, they aren't slouches in that area.

 

[nik87]

So with Oda's apparent recent willingness to show that ladies can indeed get down and dirty with straight up fisticuffs, are we expecting Robin and Nami to throw down more or show more physical feats of strength?

Robin yes, Nami no. Nami is not the type that focuses on physical strength, she usually overpowers the opponents through her "witchcraft".
Robin, hella yes. I expect huge feats from her. She could probably tango with the Numbers or maybe even with Smoothie.

 

[M3J]

And which one of those is effectively cutting Pica off from the ground?

Doesn't need to if he can damage Pica either way.

So with Oda's apparent recent willingness to show that ladies can indeed get down and dirty with straight up fisticuffs, are we expecting Robin and Nami to throw down more or show more physical feats of strength?

Nothing extreme of course, given their style of fighting and character, but maybe they'll be put in a position to show that, while they aren't as strong as their top peers, they aren't slouches in that area.

I don't think either will. Robin will still continue to use her devil fruit while Nami will still rely on her cunning and weather rod, especially since she's still the weakest or one of the weakest members of the crew.

 

[Fox666]

Pica hiding in stone is not a loss. That is his ability. Is Cracker hiding behind biscuits considered a loss? It isnt.
Pica can as well be in the ground beneath Luffy and Sabo and attack them with Charlestone move and they wont be able to get him in thousands of years.
However, let's focus on Golem above the ground and let's say Pica goes into ground only to create a new Golem when old one is destroyed.

Luffy is very bad in AoE, that has been cemented in his fight against both Cracker and Katakuri. He cant come close to Zoro in AoE's. Sabo can but his AoE's are inferior to Zoro's, I havent seen a flamethrower go through a frickin mountain yet, even Kaido's Borobreath only destroys a small part of a hill.

I could give Sabo the benefit of the doubt to be stronger than Zoro at this point but once Wano is over, that option is gone. Luffy on the other hand, no chance. Luffy's fights need way too much pampering to fit them just right how Luffy needs, only to win extreme dif or pull a draw, with help...
Zoro is a completely different beast who only had one extreme diff fight in the entire manga, he is simply too effective compared to Luffy.

Pica isnt running away, he is hiding and going into the ground while knowing that he will be trapped if he doesnt, cant be held against him.
You are asking him to stay and wait until Luffy breaks off the golem from the ground, assuming he can even do that before Golem falls on the ground, so he could get to him and why would Pica sabotage himself?

Biscuits didnt help Cracker offensively either against G4, he didnt stop using them. Why would he? Pica is the master of the stalling game, just dodging his Charlestone attack will eventually tire people out. If Cracker can get exhausted from clapping his hands, so can Pica exhaust people with such an attack...

What are you talking about? How does you even remotely think that Pica could fight Luffy?

As far we know Pica can't use Haki on his giant statue. Meaning he has no means of hurting Luffy if he's hiding inside of the statue.

Luffy easily smashed the statue's head with a single Gear 3 attack. If Luffy used the Elephant Gatling, he would destroy the entire thing at once. He doesn't even need Gear 4.

Besides Pica may have only lasted that long because his opponent was not good with CoO.

 

[Shasha23]

What are you talking about? How does you even remotely think that Pica could fight Luffy?

As far we know Pica can't use Haki on his giant statue. Meaning he has no means of hurting Luffy if he's hiding inside of the statue.

Luffy easily smashed the statue's head with a single Gear 3 attack. If Luffy used the Elephant Gatling, he would destroy the entire thing at once. He doesn't even need Gear 4.

Besides Pica may have only lasted that long because his opponent was not good with CoO.

Elephant Gatling is not an instantaneous attack its an attacks that deals massive damage after multiple hits, it would be useless on Pica just as Grizzly Magnum was, like i have been saying multiple times before if Oda didnt troll Pica then truly Zoro would not have been able to corner him like that, Pica is a master CoO user and every time he felt danger coming he always turned to stone before anything happened to him, except when Oda didnt want it so.

People have a miss conception that you can find Pica with CoO which isnt true, Pica's devil fruit allows him to assimilate with the earth, he is not controlling the earth like some MECHA but he actually becomes the earth he controls with his flesh body being somewhere within the earth, if you use CoO to try and find him you would just pick up the earth he is controlling since the earth is Pica himself, the only way to find Pica was to look for the moving rocks as he moves his flesh body from point A to point B.