One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[nik87]

When you are reduced to arguing a future hypothetical match that 100% won't happen to "hype" your character, you've lost the battle before you even entered the ring.

Well you disqualified yourself before me, since you should tell Oda that there is a stronger swordsman than Mihawk and he isnt realizing it because he is giving the title to the wrong guy...

 

[Nie Li]

We saw WSS being stopped easily by YCs like Jozu and Vista and then later by Crocodile while Yonko lvl like Whitebeard and Kaido with theit titles easily defeated YCs with one-shot hits or less effort unlike Mihawk. Pretty sure Oda already shown notion on where Mihawk stands. He is strong, but he is no Admiral or Yonko lvl threat. Best bet you can say he stronger than YCs, but that putting if we haven't seen full power on their side either as they could be stronger or equal to him.

To imply Mihawk is weaker than an admiral or a Yonko in a 1vs1 just because he clashed once with Vista without neither getting serious (Mihawk has never been barely serious yet onscreen) and because Jozu (a YC with one of the highests resistances implied so far because of his use of both diamond DF and invisible haki (he used ryo to hit Crocodile)) stopped one random flying slash that wasn't aimed at him...

God, I can't wait the manga to show Mihawk's strength some more. I just hope we get to see how the marines try to capture him now so that debate can have some real feats.

 

[goldb]

Do you guys not get tired of having the same discussion over and over again? noone's opinion is gonna change any time soon; especially as the manga isn't going to be giving us an answer these title debates for a very long while. All you're doing is repeating the same conversation month in and out, which just leads to one or two people overstepping, then a whole bunch of deletes and then people being banned.

It's great to see how passionate you are with these debates but I think there's a lot more to talk about than just Shanks or Mihawk (in this case).

 

[nik87]

Do you guys not get tired of having the same discussion over and over again? noone's opinion is gonna change any time soon; especially as the manga isn't going to be giving us an answer these title debates for a very long while. All you're doing is repeating the same conversation month in and out, which just leads to one or two people overstepping, then a whole bunch of deletes and then people being banned.

It's great to see how passionate you are with these debates but I think there's a lot more to talk about than just Shanks or Mihawk (in this case).

Even tho it is repetitive, I have tried my best to be as civil as possible and treat my opposition with respect.
These debates are going in a circle on every OP platform, as you said, they wont be cleared up any time soon.

 

[Nie Li]

Do you guys not get tired of having the same discussion over and over again? noone's opinion is gonna change any time soon; especially as the manga isn't going to be giving us an answer these title debates for a very long while. All you're doing is repeating the same conversation month in and out, which just leads to one or two people overstepping, then a whole bunch of deletes and then people being banned.

It's great to see how passionate you are with these debates but I think there's a lot more to talk about than just Shanks or Mihawk (in this case).

In my case this was my first time talking about Mihawk on this forum (or in any other, for that matter). I think I accidentally started the discussion about him yesterday when I brought up my opinion on Mihawk's strength. I didn't think it could possibly become heated but obviously I was wrong.


What do you think would make for an interesting topic of debate that hasn't already been burned through on this forum?

 

[HereNThere]

In my case this was my first time talking about Mihawk on this forum (or in any other, for that matter). I think I accidentally started the discussion about him yesterday when I brought up my opinion on Mihawk's strength. I didn't think it could possibly become heated but obviously I was wrong.

You wouldn't have known that, so you're fine.

What do you think would make for an interesting topic of debate that hasn't already been burned through on this forum?

Literally any topic not involving Shanks, Mihawk, Sanji, or Zoro.

 

[thedude]

To imply Mihawk is weaker than an admiral or a Yonko in a 1vs1 just because he clashed once with Vista without neither getting serious (Mihawk has never been barely serious yet onscreen) and because Jozu (a YC with one of the highests resistances implied so far because of his use of both diamond DF and invisible haki (he used ryo to hit Crocodile)) stopped one random flying slash that wasn't aimed at him...

God, I can't wait the manga to show Mihawk's strength some more. I just hope we get to see how the marines try to capture him now so that debate can have some real feats.

You shouldn't assume everyone pre-timeskip used ryo. Oda hadn't fleshed out haki. He didn't turn anyone black to signify it. But that doesn't mean you can just extrapolate and say "all haki was ryo". The Haki that definitely was ryo was Sentomoru, and the Kuja sisters, as well as the Admirals stopping the earthquake. But other than that, i wouldn't read so far into it.

 

[Ramen]

If Magellan, Crocodile, and Enel mastered 2/3 learned and mastered armament and observation haki considering their insane DF's, where would they're rank be?

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 30, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 30, 2020 ---

Mihawk is a dead conversation character.

Fan boys will use his WSS title to bolster him and forget feats, portrayal, everything.

Leave the dude alone lol.

 

[AmitDS]

Any who. I personally believe with the Rocks story being somewhat revealed and Whitebeard being an emperor and Roger's rival over 20 decades ago before Shanks and Kaido rose to power, that Big Mom's statement doesn't necessarily mean that Whitebeard was stronger than her, Kaido and Shanks at full power. It could, rather, just allude to him being someone she couldn't surpass or beat ever since she was a rookie and the one with the longest and most illustrious career out of all her emperor rivals. Kaido was an apprentice when they were established and Shanks just came along recently.

Contrary to what fans online believe, it isn’t impossible that Prime Whitebeard was equal to Big Mom, Kaido and Shanks and that Shanks is on the same level as Roger now that he's almost 40 himself and an established emperor. This would make Luffy defeating him also leading to him surpassing Roger himself clearly.

I say this because WB's clash with Shanks mirrored Kaido and Big Mom's and we know his illness and age wasn't constantly affecting him 24/7. Also, they are collectively called the 4 strongest pirates who are in contention with one another.

People gloss over it but having 3 other pirates having the same reputation as him, having territory and military power like him, competing over territory with him and gunning for him (Kaido and Big Mom clearly wanted to beat him), in a kid's series does show authorial intent and give us a deadlock situation. The nature of the emperors denotes a deadlock ie equal forces competing but never overpowering one another.

 

[Nie Li]

You shouldn't assume everyone pre-timeskip used ryo. Oda hadn't fleshed out haki. He didn't turn anyone black to signify it. But that doesn't mean you can just extrapolate and say "all haki was ryo". The Haki that definitely was ryo was Sentomoru, and the Kuja sisters, as well as the Admirals stopping the earthquake. But other than that, i wouldn't read so far into it.

Well. You have a point, but perhaps simply nobody used normal black haki onscreen back then, since now with ryo Oda's made a point that advanced CoA is in fact invisible because it's an evolution of it, and the only people we saw using haki are those you have mentioned + Rayleigh, Garp, Vista and Marco and they all sound like people who are arguably on a level at which they could know ryo. He's also made a point that black haki should have been a thing since the beginning through the explanation of Mihawk's and Ryuuma's swords, so the implication is that "black haki" can be seen by all characters and has actually always been, supposedly, a thing.

We cannot know what's really the case here.

Mihawk is a dead conversation character.

Fan boys will use his WSS title to bolster him and forget feats, portrayal, everything.

Leave the dude alone lol.

We can all get over that topic, but it's really not nice to put it like that. Disagreeing and debating over said disagreement can be fun, but it starts being pointless if one side just laughs off as "fanboys rambling" whatever the others believe in. We see hi feats and portrayal differently, that's all there is to it.

If Magellan, Crocodile, and Enel mastered 2/3 learned and mastered armament and observation haki considering their insane DF's, where would they're rank be?

What do you mean they mastered 2/3?
I love Crocodile but the water weakness is a heavy one. Haki can make up for how vulnerable he becomes when wet, but I don't remember if his skills actually get sealed by the water. He can't become sand to avoid damage, but can he create sandbased attacks and generate sand in general while wet? If he can't, then he'll never be admiral level.
Magellan and Enel however would definitely be admiral level if their haki received some love. Enel already had very strong CoO.

 

[Ramen]

Well. You have a point, but perhaps simply nobody used normal black haki onscreen back then, since now with ryo Oda's made a point that advanced CoA is in fact invisible because it's an evolution of it, and the only people we saw using haki are those you have mentioned + Rayleigh, Garp, Vista and Marco and they all sound like people who are arguably on a level at which they could know ryo. He's also made a point that black haki should have been a thing since the beginning through the explanation of Mihawk's and Ryuuma's swords, so the implication is that "black haki" can be seen by all characters and has actually always been, supposedly, a thing.

We cannot know what's really the case here.


We can all get over that topic, but it's really not nice to put it like that. Disagreeing and debating over said disagreement can be fun, but it starts being pointless if one side just laughs off as "fanboys rambling" whatever the others believe in. We see hi feats and portrayal differently, that's all there is to it.


What do you mean they mastered 2/3?
I love Crocodile but the water weakness is a heavy one. Haki can make up for how vulnerable he becomes when wet, but I don't remember if his skills actually get sealed by the water. He can't become sand to avoid damage, but can he create sandbased attacks and generate sand in general while wet? If he can't, then he'll never be admiral level.
Magellan and Enel however would definitely be admiral level if their haki received some love. Enel already had very strong CoO.

If you're sole argument is WSS and you choose to look away from everything else. You're a fanboy. Plain and simple.

By 2 out of the three I mean Armament and observation.

 

[nik87]

If you're sole argument is WSS and you choose to look away from everything else. You're a fanboy. Plain and simple.
By 2 out of the three I mean Armament and observation.

Do you understand that there is material to trash and downplay literally every character?
Are you seeing what is happening in the latest chapter?
Can you imagine Mihawk having such treatment? lol...

 

[Nie Li]

If you're sole argument is WSS and you choose to look away from everything else. You're a fanboy. Plain and simple.

Please don't say that, there were plenty of arguments other than the title, despite the title itself being one. I could say the exact same sentence you just said changing the word WSS for Yonkou. I don't wish to reignite the argument; all I had to say has been said and can be read.

What I'm saying now is that assuming those you disagree with are "just fanboys" is not a good attitude for having a debate, especially if you haven't gone through the trouble of seeing if there's more to their opinion than just "the sole argument is WSS".

By 2 out of the three I mean Armament and observation.

I see. Then I stand by my answer to that.

 

[thedude]

What do you mean they mastered 2/3?
I love Crocodile but the water weakness is a heavy one. Haki can make up for how vulnerable he becomes when wet, but I don't remember if his skills actually get sealed by the water. He can't become sand to avoid damage, but can he create sandbased attacks and generate sand in general while wet? If he can't, then he'll never be admiral level.
Magellan and Enel however would definitely be admiral level if their haki received some love. Enel already had very strong CoO.

Magellan I feel was very very close to Admiral level. I've made the point before, but he one-shotted the entire BB crew. He made Ivankov look weak, the same Ivankov who later thrashed Kuma around. The other person who beat Ivankov that easily was of course Akainu.

The only thing we don't know about Magellan is his haki. But if it's strong, he's basically emperor level to me. Enel would be there too if he had CoA haki. His observation haki was top in the manga, only real competition is Katakurri who has better in fight CoO haki, but worse CoO haki in terms of being able to sense far away. So I'd put them close to equal overall. Give him CoA and he's stronger than Kizaru I think (similar to how Magma > fire, Lightning > Light in a fight i think...maybe lol.)

 

[Ramen]

Please don't say that, there were plenty of arguments other than the title, despite the title itself being one. I could say the exact same sentence you just said changing the word WSS for Yonkou. I don't wish to reignite the argument; all I had to say has been said and can be read.

What I'm saying now is that assuming those you disagree with are "just fanboys" is not a good attitude for having a debate, especially if you haven't gone through the trouble of seeing if there's more to their opinion than just "the sole argument is WSS".


I see. Then I stand by my answer to that.

.... my point clearly missed you

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 30, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 30, 2020 ---

Magellan I feel was very very close to Admiral level. I've made the point before, but he one-shotted the entire BB crew. He made Ivankov look weak, the same Ivankov who later thrashed Kuma around. The other person who beat Ivankov that easily was of course Akainu.

The only thing we don't know about Magellan is his haki. But if it's strong, he's basically emperor level to me. Enel would be there too if he had CoA haki. His observation haki was top in the manga, only real competition is Katakurri who has better in fight CoO haki, but worse CoO haki in terms of being able to sense far away. So I'd put them close to equal overall. Give him CoA and he's stronger than Kizaru I think (similar to how Magma > fire, Lightning > Light in a fight i think...maybe lol.)

I'd put him at admiral level but I don't know about being stronger than Kizaru. If Enel had CoA along with Mantra then I'd make the argument for him being possible above Kizaru.

 

[Nie Li]

Magellan I feel was very very close to Admiral level. I've made the point before, but he one-shotted the entire BB crew. He made Ivankov look weak, the same Ivankov who later thrashed Kuma around. The other person who beat Ivankov that easily was of course Akainu.

The only thing we don't know about Magellan is his haki. But if it's strong, he's basically emperor level to me. Enel would be there too if he had CoA haki. His observation haki was top in the manga, only real competition is Katakurri who has better in fight CoO haki, but worse CoO haki in terms of being able to sense far away. So I'd put them close to equal overall. Give him CoA and he's stronger than Kizaru I think (similar to how Magma > fire, Lightning > Light in a fight i think...maybe lol.)

I remember discussing about Magellan on this thread (I think?) once before. I defended his strength since his DF is the kind that even a weak person without haki like myself would become overpowered instantly. Only strong ranged attacks can work on him and not everybody is able of that.
I don't know about his haki, though, but since the questioni was assuming that he had strong CoA and CoO haki, then without doubt he would be a strong, extremely lethal, admiral.

I believe he retired after the Impel Down arc so I guess he'll probably only become weaker from now on. That's sad.

Enel was just unlucky to meet Luffy back then. Luffy to him is more troublesome than a CoA user because CoA users would also get shocked despite being able to hit him while Luffy was 100% immune to his skills; even to skills much stronger than the ones that were already plenty enough to bring down Sanji, Zoro, Whiper (is that how it's written?) and the rest. Give strong CoA haki to Enel and make him take fights more seriously (his attitude was also a problem) and he's a monster. I hope we will see more of him in the future.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 30, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 30, 2020 ---

.... my point clearly missed you

It certainly did not.

 

[roggie]

Sometimes i have the impression people confuses Luffy's rubber body properties. He is not vulnerable to slashes, he is just not as resistant as he is against blunt attacks (though i still think it doesn't make much sense he deflecting bullets if he can't withstand knifes, but whatever...). He is as vulnerable to a knife as anyone else here, if not a little less.

Point is, if top tier people manage to fight without a weapon, no reason why Luffy can't take on swordsmen.


Most anticipated plot twist in this thread: Luffy ends being the one to fight Mihawk

 

[goldb]

Even tho it is repetitive, I have tried my best to be as civil as possible and treat my opposition with respect.
These debates are going in a circle on every OP platform, as you said, they wont be cleared up any time soon.

Yeah I get that and I usually let discussions go for a while and just jump when I'm around or if it gets out of hand. I also understand that often we get new participants (such as @Moegara ) who maybe hasn't been involved in the extensive debates so it feels like it's a reset for the topic as a whole.

Ultimately I can't prohibit any particular discussion( well I COULD but you get the point...) from happening but repetition is tiring, especially if it takes you guys 10-20min+ to write these posts and I have to delete it because people begin to step out of line and act petty.

What do you think would make for an interesting topic of debate that hasn't already been burned through on this forum?

Essentially what @eefrit said. Honestly one time sifting through the board I found threads from 2010s discussing the same topics and we're no better off in terms of character or story development for a lot of these. It's actually fascinating. I think that's the general issue with OP because apart from the SHs and their current enemies of any given arc, any of the interesting characters we're wanting to discuss we haven't seen enough to really have substantial and factual debates. It's all opinions and deductions, which fine but it just means then we go around in circles.

I'd personally like to see more discussions and theories that aren't just about power levels (obviously in their appropriate threads). Everyone though is welcome to bring a new topic of discussion if they want, don't wait for me to find something because it might be a while.

 

[King Moe]

To imply Mihawk is weaker than an admiral or a Yonko in a 1vs1 just because he clashed once with Vista without neither getting serious (Mihawk has never been barely serious yet onscreen) and because Jozu (a YC with one of the highests resistances implied so far because of his use of both diamond DF and invisible haki (he used ryo to hit Crocodile)) stopped one random flying slash that wasn't aimed at him...

God, I can't wait the manga to show Mihawk's strength some more. I just hope we get to see how the marines try to capture him now so that debate can have some real feats.

You don't have to be serious to beat YC as Whitebeard, Kaido, and Big Mom have prove when beating their respecting YC lvl threats without going full power, Mihawk was stop by 2 of them and never beat them as well by Crocodile himself and only people he beaten in arc was Daz Bones and Impel Down Prisoners. That is about it. Admirals shown their dominance over YCs in war, but Mihawk didn't. It's ignorant to not see that as Oda knows how to put who is above who in a fight. If he couldn't do it, he couldn't do it. Best to say on his full power he is in-between of Admiral and YCs or equal to them. We just going at what Marineford show and it doesn't help he never face Yonko Shanks, just Pre-Yonko Shanks, so can't determine him above them if performance doesn't show.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I will say this... If Mihawk was the one that clashed with Whitebeard and Akainu and was Strong enough to stop the war with his words and all Shanks did was clash with a Yonko Commander... Serious or not, I wouldn't be talking.