Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Seven777]

How so? We know that Natsu gets stronger the more emotional he gets. The fact that POF made him stronger against Zeref is proof that he was more emotional than when future Lucy died. Or, at the very least, it's proof that Natsu's feelings for the guild grants a superior power-up compared to his other emotions. Natsu said so himself that it's his greatest power. I happen to believe that not all emotions give equal POF boosts, and that emotions closer to love are inherently superior. But I digress. You can get just as sad or angry remembering an event as when you first experienced it. Or even worse, if you have feelings of regret.

Flames of Emotion are a part of Natsu's dragon slaying magic because that's the only type of fire magic he knows. Moreover, flames of emotion is an ancient spell, which are magic that comes from 400 years ago. The only magic that Natsu could have possibly learned from 400 years ago that involves fire is his dragon slaying magic.

Ignia noticed that emotions were making Natsu stronger simply by blocking a basic punch. The fact that Natsu doesn't even have to be that angry for characters to pick up on emotions making him stronger tells us that it's active pretty much all the time. The only variable is how emotional Natsu gets. You can argue that it's rare for Natsu to ever reach the same state that he did against Zeref, but that still doesn't make it the same as eating something for a power-up. One comes from Natsu eating a source of magic outside his body. The other comes from Natsu's emotions.

Because we don't know that? That's what we've been arguing about for most of this time. The fact that you don't know which of those options is the reality just confirms that PoF is an unknown.
As sad and angry as when a person you love is killed in front of you? I don't think so.

No it isn't, in that very fight he used another type of fire magic. And I didn't say it was something Natsu learned.

Or, it was just active when he attacked Ignia.
Like I said, eating is just an example, I know it's not the same thing, that's obvious. You can be enchanted by someone, you can eat something, you can use Fairy Heart, you can get a blessing from Tenrou, etc, etc, all are different, all are power ups outside the users control, and that includes PoF.

 

[sharkai]

Makarov thought freaking Natsu can challenge Laxus LMAO

Except Laxus was casual against Erza. Red pants Erza will 2 or 3 shot Laxus? . Yeah, we saw that against Hades.

Laxus didn't win the round against Mystogan.
Laxus never finished the round against Erza, she left after Laxus casually stopped her angry attack.
Makarov considered only those available to him, and narrowed down to Erza, Natsu and Gray ..he wasn't even confident about them lol.

Yeah no. Markarov says who can take him and then says erza might be able to but she was a stone statue. Its your headcannon that marakrov wasnt confidence when he mentioned erza.

I like how you keep bring up hades fight but when talking about laxus losing to natsu, its all plot and mp lose from fl. Lol
Decide already did laxus lose to natsu because he was weak. Or did mp and old battle matter like it mattered against hades

 

[Axiomus]

Because we don't know that? That's what we've been arguing about for most of this time. The fact that you don't know which of those options is the reality just confirms that PoF is an unknown.
As sad and angry as when a person you love is killed in front of you? I don't think so.

No it isn't, in that very fight he used another type of fire magic. And I didn't say it was something Natsu learned.

Or, it was just active when he attacked Ignia.
Like I said, eating is just an example, I know it's not the same thing, that's obvious. You can be enchanted by someone, you can eat something, you can use Fairy Heart, you can get a blessing from Tenrou, etc, etc, all are different, all are power ups outside the users control, and that includes PoF.

We know that Natsu gets stronger the more emotional he gets. If there's 2 examples of him tapping into POF, and one of them is stronger, then we can safely say that he was probably being more emotional. The alternative is to simply disregard the statements of Natsu being stronger when he's more emotional altogether.

Why can't you be just as sad and angry remembering someone's death as when you first experienced it?

Yes it is. The only fire magic that Natsu knows is his fire dragon slaying magic. It's the only magic that Igneel taught him. Flames of Emotion is simply a part of that magic. Hence why whenever he's using flames of emotion, he's also using a dragon slaying spell.

It was active against Ignia, and then against the entire fight with Mercphobia too. Ignia literally told Natsu to use it when he's fighting Mercphobia. POF is only outside the user's control in the sense that nobody can perfectly predict how they're going to react to something. That doesn't mean they have zero control over their emotions either.

 

[Seven777]

We know that Natsu gets stronger the more emotional he gets. If there's 2 examples of him tapping into POF, and one of them is stronger, then we can safely say that he was probably being more emotional. The alternative is to simply disregard the statements of Natsu being stronger when he's more emotional altogether.

Why can't you be just as sad and angry remembering someone's death as when you first experienced it?

Yes it is. The only fire magic that Natsu knows is his fire dragon slaying magic. It's the only magic that Igneel taught him. Flames of Emotion is simply a part of that magic. Hence why whenever he's using flames of emotion, he's also using a dragon slaying spell.

It was active against Ignia, and then against the entire fight with Mercphobia too. Ignia literally told Natsu to use it when he's fighting Mercphobia. POF is only outside the user's control in the sense that nobody can perfectly predict how they're going to react to something. That doesn't mean they have zero control over their emotions either.

No, you think he gets stronger the more emotional he gets, and you're not even sure that's the case.

Because pain fades with time, not completely, but it does fade.

I'm not convinced Flames of Emotion is something Natsu was taught, or that it can be taught, Natsu doesn't even seem to know what it is. Oh and him using a Dragon Slaying spell whenever he's using Flames of Emotion doesn't equate to him using Flames of Emotion every time he's using a Dragon Slaying spell, Dragon Force is a part of DS magic too, he's not using that all the time.

It does, in the sense that they can't get any meaningful increase in strength when they actually want it, as shown by Natsu being unable to stop Altaris or Fairy Law. Hell, even against Merc, if Natsu could control his emotions he wouldn't have needed Ignia's magic, he'd just have used Savage Flames(if we go by your assumption that their are no conditions for it other than being emotional). It's not about predicting their reaction, it's about controlling their own reaction, and more importantly the power they get from it, and that is entirely out of the users control, bringing Wendy along for some enchanting is far and away a more controllable method of powering up.

 

[Ramen]

No, you think he gets stronger the more emotional he gets, and you're not even sure that's the case.

Wait, isn't that the whole theme of FT?

 

[Aurelius]

We're on like Day 18 of Ax vs. 7777, and neither is still giving an inch

 

[Ramen]

We're on like Day 18 of Ax vs. 7777, and neither is still giving an inch

@Ebony Maw Would wipe the floor with both of em

 

[Axiomus]

No, you think he gets stronger the more emotional he gets, and you're not even sure that's the case.

Because pain fades with time, not completely, but it does fade.

I'm not convinced Flames of Emotion is something Natsu was taught, or that it can be taught, Natsu doesn't even seem to know what it is. Oh and him using a Dragon Slaying spell whenever he's using Flames of Emotion doesn't equate to him using Flames of Emotion every time he's using a Dragon Slaying spell, Dragon Force is a part of DS magic too, he's not using that all the time.

It does, in the sense that they can't get any meaningful increase in strength when they actually want it, as shown by Natsu being unable to stop Altaris or Fairy Law. Hell, even against Merc, if Natsu could control his emotions he wouldn't have needed Ignia's magic, he'd just have used Savage Flames(if we go by your assumption that their are no conditions for it other than being emotional). It's not about predicting their reaction, it's about controlling their own reaction, and more importantly the power they get from it, and that is entirely out of the users control, bringing Wendy along for some enchanting is far and away a more controllable method of powering up.

Oh, I'm sure that Natsu gets stronger the more emotional he gets. Ignia flat out said he does, and I believe him. I don't just believe this is true for Natsu either, Natsu is just the easiest example to cite because we're literally told he can turn emotions into MP.

How many people still resent 9/11? Pain can fade with time. You can also dwell on it, and become bitter and resentful.

Flames of emotions is type of ancient spell, which is magic from 400 years ago. The only ancient spell Natsu actually knows is his dragon slaying magic. Dragon Force is indeed a part of Dragon Slaying Magic too. We know when Natsu is using dragon force because he shows visible dragonization. We know when Natsu is using flames of emotions when he's emotional, and Natsu gets emotional very easily.

Like I said, Natsu doesn't need to be able to have full control over his emotions. He just needs to have them. And sure, bringing Wendy along for some enchanting is more consistent....But why does it matter? We were originally talking about FDK and END's power anyways. END's power requires Natsu to doubt his humanity to spawn the seed, and then for Lucy to connect hearts with Natsu to wake him from the coma, and then for Natsu to think that Lucy was dead....All in order to reach the level he had against Gray. It's also a power that is fueled by Natsu's emotions, and privy to circumstance.

 

[kian]

Axiomus is the final boss you arrive at when debating.

Very few make it out alive.

 

[Ramen]

Axiomus is the final boss you arrive at when debating.

Very few make it out alive.

Pshhhhh, he easy work


Now that guy @MUIMadara , he's the Acnologia of this section.

 

[Seven777]

Wait, isn't that the whole theme of FT?

Sure, except when it's not enough and you end up getting your ass kicked. Besides, I think friendship bonds are a more accurate descriptions of FT's theme, which Natsu turned into infinite magic.

Oh, I'm sure that Natsu gets stronger the more emotional he gets. Ignia flat out said he does, and I believe him.

How many people still resent 9/11? Pain can fade with time. You can also dwell on it.

Flames of emotions is type of ancient spell, which is magic from 400 years ago. The only ancient spell Natsu actually knows is his dragon slaying magic. Dragon Force is indeed a part of Dragon Slaying Magic too. We know when Natsu is using dragon force because he shows visible dragonization. We know when Natsu is using flames of emotions when he's emotional, and Natsu gets emotional very easily.

Like I said, Natsu doesn't need to be able to have full control over his emotions. He just needs to have them.

He said he's stronger when he is emotional as i recall, which I agree with. Did you not offer an alternative or additional rule in that love provides more power? I believe that would confirm there are more rules to PoF. Plus there's the whole thing about friendship bonds, which doesn't activate every time, not to mention every other random ability PoF provides.

A lot? How many people are still crying about it(literally)? Pretty much no one. It's still something sad, but if someone else in your life died the same way 2 seconds ago, it'd be incomparably sadder(in that moment).

A type of ancient magic as I recall.
Sure, and despite that, the level of power he gets varies wildly, from near nothing at all, to stronger than god.

Like I said, he does need to have full control over his emotions, otherwise it's a less reliable power up than Wendy's enchantments.

 

[Ramen]

Sure, except when it's not enough and you end up getting your ass kicked. Besides, I think friendship bonds are a more accurate descriptions of FT's theme, which Natsu turned into infinite magic.

But it's the power of friendship is the reason why most fights are won.

 

[Seven777]

But it's the power of friendship is the reason why most fights are won.

Is it though? By my count power of friendship more often than not fails it's characters, it's random powerups that save the day. Against Gajeel, Lucy gave him fire, against Jellal he got Etherion, against Zero he got Jellal's fire, against Dorma Anim he got Wendy's enchantments, against Hades he got Laxus' lightning, against Rogue he got Atlas Flame's power, against Acno he had 7 DS Mode, against Merc he had Ignia's power.
Sure, power of friendship happens a lot too, but if power of friendship is such a fight winner, why does Natsu need all these power ups?

 

[Ramen]

Is it though? By my count power of friendship more often than not fails it's characters, it's random powerups that save the day. Against Gajeel, Lucy gave him fire, against Jellal he got Etherion, against Zero he got Jellal's fire, against Dorma Anim he got Wendy's enchantments, against Hades he got Laxus' lightning, against Rogue he got Atlas Flame's power, against Mard he had Gray, against Acno he had 7 DS Mode, against Merc he had Ignia's power.
Sure, power of friendship happens a lot too, but if power of friendship is such a fight winner, why does Natsu need all these power ups?

Against Sting and Rogue it was PoF, it was PoF against Zeref, you can make the argument it was PoF against Aldoron, it was PoF (technically) against Laxus. Acno was PoF everywhere.

But you said this:

o, you think he gets stronger the more emotional he gets, and you're not even sure that's the case.

I mean, this is wrong. We've seen PoF make stronger everytime.

 

[Seven777]

Against Sting and Rogue it was PoF, it was PoF against Zeref, you can make the argument it was PoF against Aldoron, it was PoF (technically) against Laxus. Acno was PoF everywhere.

But you said this:


I mean, this is wrong. We've seen PoF make stronger everytime.

Yeah, those are some good examples of PoF, like I said, it happens too. But more often than not, it fails and an outside power up is needed

Sure, I didn't say PoF doesn't make you stronger(mostly)

 

[Ramen]

Yeah, those are some good examples of PoF, like I said, it happens too. But more often than not, it fails and an outside power up is needed

More times than not, that power-up is PoF backed though.

Mostly?

 

[Axiomus]

He said he's stronger when he is emotional as i recall, which I agree with. Did you not offer an alternative or additional rule in that love provides more power? I believe that would confirm there are more rules to PoF. Plus there's the whole thing about friendship bonds, which doesn't activate every time, not to mention every other random ability PoF provides.

A lot? How many people are still crying about it(literally)? Pretty much no one. It's still something sad, but if someone else in your life died the same way 2 seconds ago, it'd be incomparably sadder.

A type of ancient magic as I recall.
Sure, and despite that, the level of power he gets varies wildly, from near nothing at all, to stronger than god.

Like I said, he does need to have full control over his emotions, otherwise it's a less reliable power up than Wendy's enchantments.

I think love gives more power than other emotions because love is the one magic. I still think that the more emotional Natsu is, the stronger he gets.

Well that's because they don't think about it for the vast majority of the time. If you actively think about how your loved ones died, you can get just as sad as when they actually died.

Yes. The only ancient spell Natsu actually knows is his DS. It's not like Natsu was taught another type of fire magic that happened to also have flames of emotion. He's using his dragon slaying magic, and the flames of emotion are a part of that. Maybe you can also find flames of emotion in other fire magic. But Natsu doesn't know other fire magic.

Sure. It would be more consistent if you brought along Wendy to enchant you. But why does it matter? It's not like END's power is a consistent power-up that Natsu can just tap into either. He needs to doubt his humanity to spawn the demon seed, and then use negative emotions to fuel it's power. How is this really any different from making his FDK spells stronger with Flames of Emotion?

 

[Seven777]

I think love gives more power than other emotions because love is the one magic. I still think that the more emotional Natsu is, the stronger he gets.

Well that's because they don't think about it for the vast majority of the time. If you actively think about how your loved ones died, you can get just as sad as when they actually died.

Yes. The only ancient spell Natsu actually knows is his DS. It's not like Natsu was taught another type of fire magic that happened to also have flames of emotion. He's using his dragon slaying magic, and the flames of emotion are a part of that. Maybe you can also find flames of emotion in other fire magic. But Natsu doesn't know other fire magic.

Sure. It would be more consistent if you brought along Wendy to enchant you. But why does it matter? It's not like END's power is a consistent power-up that Natsu can just tap into either. He needs to doubt his humanity to spawn the demon seed, and then use negative emotions to fuel it's power. How is this really any different from making his FDK spells stronger with Flames of Emotion?

Alright, I'll concede here, more emotion generally gives you a greater power up. I still think there are more rules to it though, like different emotions=different levels of power given, plus whatever triggers the other random effects of PoF.

Can you though? Just as sad as when you actually get the news that they're dead? Seems unlikely to me, I've never met anyone like that, though I've already conceded the first point so i guess there's no point arguing it.

Like I said, I'm not convinced it was something he learned, rather than something he just has.

To be clear, I rank END as a random powerup too(outside him willingly choosing it). Savage Flames, END, Igneel's magic, 7 DS mode, all random power ups outside Natsu's control.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2020 ---

More times than not, that power-up is PoF backed though.

Mostly?

Sure, but that being the case just shows PoF itself wasn't enough. Then we get into the argument of whether Natsu could win without PoF, for example could DF Natsu have beaten Jellal without PoF? I'd say yeah, for sure.

 

[Ramen]

Sure, but that being the case just shows PoF itself wasn't enough

No I'm not saying PoF is the end all be all. I thought you said PoF doesn't make you stronger. Like it doesn't give you a boost at all.

 

[Seven777]

No I'm not saying PoF is the end all be all. I thought you said PoF doesn't make you stronger. Like it doesn't give you a boost at all.

Nah, it gives you a boost, a lot of the time though it just ain't that great