Fantasy Jellal and Laxus vs Irene

[sharkai]

And yet Invel's armor was broken by a basic punch, while Invel himself took that and much more.

Yeah? Crash is his magic, and he'd use it to reduce Deus Sema to rubble. As for whether it would kill Laxus? Sure, if it hit him

Wiser I'd assume.

How is that not giving the benefit of the doubt? You say Gildarts isn't that above Laxus and Erza, but then you turn around and say PoF Erza is indeed that above Gildarts, seems like the benefit of the doubt to me.

Maybe because Gildarts offense is just that good eh?
No, durability wise August takes it because he is near invincible. The DS power needed to take out Eileen's dragon form is in Laxus, Erza, Natsu, August, and with Wendy that list just gets longer. As for speed, blitzing Gildarts is a better feat than anything Eileen has, just like breaking Erza's bones is a better feat than anything August has. Could we assume that they could both do better in both categories? Sure, but what's the point in that?

No, Natsu has a stated ability to do that, everyone else may be able to do something similar but it's clearly not what Natsu gets.
And yes, Natsu got power from the guild, he turns his bonds with them into fire or whatever.

those basic punches were filled with pof. it broke the armor (then he made those gauntlets)

well i dont think gildarts is that above laxus to causally kill him with just basic crash. so in my opinion that gildarts crash aint doing anything to dues sema.
for me alverzec gildarts beats laxus high diff. laxus beats gildarts who is not allowed to use magic, maybe mid at max

so she goes dumber when she becomes human again (she wasnt that wise in dragon form either)

look how i am doing it. i am only looking at attack power only, irene claw >> anything gildarts and august has shown (no suicide), deus sema must be above that (just like memeto memori of mard was above his thorns).
pof erza slash>deus sema>>irene claw>>any august moves (no suicide) > any gildarts move

deus sema is not just rock (its durablity depends on irene power), just like aconologia body is not just flesh and bones.
so because of that claw, i rank pof erza far above gildarts, based on feats and common fairy tail logic (basic attacks cant be stronger than hyped up attacks)

laxus erza natsu doesnt have that power to hurt irene. with pof only erza and natsu can hit at that level. laxus doesnt have any feats at that level, august hasnt shown to do ds magic. and gildarts isnt particularly fast, and august never blitz him in sense that gildarts couldnt raise his hands, hell even cana tried to block august then. erza is however fast (like laxus) and irene can improve her speed alot more than wendy can.
sure we can assume that

nope, this was never mentioned. natsu has huge potential, his pof unleashes that. he cannot do what you claim. everyone has same pof (potential varies), nothing more. guild were powerless at that time, if we take it literally than markarov was giving magic of the dead to erza (hi in edolas arc, didnt natsu took energy from his future self or something)

lets make it simple
august > irene
but only because of his hax, nothing more
just like dimeria > serena (if you believe that)
dimeria is stronger than serena, but she cant hit as hard, she cant move that fast, nor can she tank as good.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 9, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 9, 2020 ---

your way of ranking is hilarious erza overpowerd irene best move deus sema with broken bones deos that make her above irene and august?, and gray had an advantage over invel he literally absorbed his ice and used it against him laxus in other way he had two disadvantages first cancer seconed his attacks isn't working on wahl and even with that laxus managed to keep up with him overwhelmed him and eventually killing him despite his immunity. laxus>darkness gray.


durabilty, august>irene, august tanked gildarts strongest move and it only gave him a bloody lip ,irene reverted back from her dragon form with a simple cut from an ecnchanced sword with ds from a tired wendy and broken bones erza.

speed, august>irene, august overpowerd one of the fastest characters in the series jellal who without no doubt faster than erza and irene got blitzed by erza(and saying erza is faster than gildarts when gildarts managed to outspeed august who destroyed jellal who is alot faster than erza is hilarious)

attack power i would gave the benfit to irene here with her dragon form but even august had the ability to kill all of fiore residents with ars magia.(and saying irene can broke all of gildarts bones it's your headcanon).

overall august=irene that's what the author said feats wise august>irene.

what zeref has to do here gild can't kill him nor pof erza too heck even acno can't do that, gildarts>pof erza ,gildarts>>>normal erza

for one second she was, this is no different than natsu killing zeref. zeref is above august, you think natsu could do to gildarts what august did to him

i agree laxus will beat drakness gray. but for that one hit, i rank darkness gray output above pof laxus output

and because of that bloody lips he commits suicide. broken bones erza was the second strongest good guy in alverzec arc. that girl will later will blow rot aconolgia out of the sky later while gildarts could only watch

jellal isnt faster than erza, never was. gildarts isnt fast mage. jellal lost to august because of hax not speed, same way white witch beat laxus, gajeel and mira and entire fairy tail, yet fell to wendy

i never said irene can break all bones of gildarts with a swipe, but that will still one shot gildarts

last line is your head cannon
gildarts>erza>natsu
pof made natsu beat zeref
pof made erza far above gildarts

august feats are below irene. him beating CS can easily be repllicated by dragon irene. hell you can add gildarts and cana and full powered markarov and GOI in there too. why? simple non of their magic will work on a dragon (exactly the way august beat CS)

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 9, 2020 ---

Looking at this objectively, Laxus and Jellal win. Allot of what you guys are arguing is speculative. At the end of of the day, Wendy and Erza forced Irene to go dragon form. They made her so frustrated, and so upset by surviving and thwarting her that she did. In a direct comparison between Laxus and Irene. Laxus actually won his fight against Erza, and overwhelmed her with power several times, so there is no logical reason to assume the actual Dragon Slayer, who was gettin in blows against Acnologia and tanked several hits (Irene just dodged and tried to BFR). Cannot survive Irene’s blows or can’t replicate the same amount of power ash Erza did. The only people in FT who hit harder than Laxus are Gildarts and DF Natsu. In the same way Jellal was also capable of blocking Acnologia, effortlessly. (Well I think he was holding back here because (insert headcannon), well prove it then. There is no reason to assume that Irene is one shotting individuals who can block Acno or survive his blows. They have the durability feats and power feats needed to win this.





What had Irene done to even make you putting her and Igneel in the same sentence mKdnaense

the frustation was because of enchantment nonsense wendy pulled. erza didnt do much here

 

[Seven777]

those basic punches were filled with pof. it broke the armor (then he made those gauntlets)

well i dont think gildarts is that above laxus to causally kill him with just basic crash. so in my opinion that gildarts crash aint doing anything to dues sema.
for me alverzec gildarts beats laxus high diff. laxus beats gildarts who is not allowed to use magic, maybe mid at max

so she goes dumber when she becomes human again (she wasnt that wise in dragon form either)

look how i am doing it. i am only looking at attack power only, irene claw >> anything gildarts and august has shown (no suicide), deus sema must be above that (just like memeto memori of mard was above his thorns).
pof erza slash>deus sema>>irene claw>>any august moves (no suicide) > any gildarts move

deus sema is not just rock (its durablity depends on irene power), just like aconologia body is not just flesh and bones.
so because of that claw, i rank pof erza far above gildarts, based on feats and common fairy tail logic (basic attacks cant be stronger than hyped up attacks)

laxus erza natsu doesnt have that power to hurt irene. with pof only erza and natsu can hit at that level. laxus doesnt have any feats at that level, august hasnt shown to do ds magic. and gildarts isnt particularly fast, and august never blitz him in sense that gildarts couldnt raise his hands, hell even cana tried to block august then. erza is however fast (like laxus) and irene can improve her speed alot more than wendy can.
sure we can assume that

nope, this was never mentioned. natsu has huge potential, his pof unleashes that. he cannot do what you claim. everyone has same pof (potential varies), nothing more. guild were powerless at that time, if we take it literally than markarov was giving magic of the dead to erza (hi in edolas arc, didnt natsu took energy from his future self or something)

lets make it simple
august > irene
but only because of his hax, nothing more
just like dimeria > serena (if you believe that)
dimeria is stronger than serena, but she cant hit as hard, she cant move that fast, nor can she tank as good.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 9, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 9, 2020 ---

for one second she was, this is no different than natsu killing zeref. zeref is above august, you think natsu could do to gildarts what august did to him

i agree laxus will beat drakness gray. but for that one hit, i rank darkness gray output above pof laxus output

and because of that bloody lips he commits suicide. broken bones erza was the second strongest good guy in alverzec arc. that girl will later will blow rot aconolgia out of the sky later while gildarts could only watch

jellal isnt faster than erza, never was. gildarts isnt fast mage. jellal lost to august because of hax not speed, same way white witch beat laxus, gajeel and mira and entire fairy tail, yet fell to wendy

i never said irene can break all bones of gildarts with a swipe, but that will still one shot gildarts

last line is your head cannon
gildarts>erza>natsu
pof made natsu beat zeref
pof made erza far above gildarts

august feats are below irene. him beating CS can easily be repllicated by dragon irene. hell you can add gildarts and cana and full powered markarov and GOI in there too. why? simple non of their magic will work on a dragon (exactly the way august beat CS)

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 9, 2020 ---

the frustation was because of enchantment nonsense wendy pulled. erza didnt do much here

Sure, but they were filled with PoF when he was punching Invel too, Invel is objectively far more durable than his armor.

Neither do I, still think Laxus would have to dodge that attack though.

Lol, too true.

It's simple, you used to accuse me of this all the time, "Laxus is strong because he fought Jura and Jura is strong because he fought Laxus", remember? But now you're not only doing it, but you're selectively applying it, which makes it a double standard. You're assuming Eileen and Erza are stronger because of the feats they accomplished against each other, while also assuming that August and Gildarts are weaker because of the feats those two have against each other. Rather than considering Gildarts incredibly strong for making August suicide, you laugh at August's durability for being weak.
Erza's slash also isn't greater than Deus Sema, Deus Sema would have killed everyone on the battlefield including Erza, there is a reason why she had to stop it mid air before it landed. It's no different to Minerva or Kyria breaking Benizakura despite being a tier below.

They all do, because they're all a match for Erza or greater.
He has, and Gildarts is incredibly fast.

Huh? No, it's literally stated in the manga. Natsu fire magic has the ability to turn his emotions directly into magic power, it's an actual function of his magic.

Sure, just like Eileen is only strong cause dragon

 

[sharkai]

Sure, but they were filled with PoF when he was punching Invel too, Invel is objectively far more durable than his armor.

Neither do I, still think Laxus would have to dodge that attack though.

Lol, too true.

It's simple, you used to accuse me of this all the time, "Laxus is strong because he fought Jura and Jura is strong because he fought Laxus", remember? But now you're not only doing it, but you're selectively applying it, which makes it a double standard. You're assuming Eileen and Erza are stronger because of the feats they accomplished against each other, while also assuming that August and Gildarts are weaker because of the feats those two have against each other. Rather than considering Gildarts incredibly strong for making August suicide, you laugh at August's durability for being weak.
Erza's slash also isn't greater than Deus Sema, Deus Sema would have killed everyone on the battlefield including Erza, there is a reason why she had to stop it mid air before it landed. It's no different to Minerva or Kyria breaking Benizakura despite being a tier below.

They all do, because they're all a match for Erza or greater.
He has, and Gildarts is incredibly fast.

Huh? No, it's literally stated in the manga. Natsu fire magic has the ability to turn his emotions directly into magic power, it's an actual function of his magic.

Sure, just like Eileen is only strong cause dragon

invel being more durable than his armor just doesnt make sense to me. but you could be right. it makes me think wahl etherion wouldnt even kill wahl

i try to put some basic standard first (jura example is different, laxus nor jura proved their hype, it becomes circlar after that, there has to be a way to exit the circle and link it with outside world)
that why i told you gildarts relative standing in the start. gildarts power changed alot from tenrou arc. so we dont actaully know where he stands.
my basic assumption, he is some what a tier above erza and laxus.
if you dont agree with this assumption, nothing i say further would make any sense.

let say you agree with gildarts standing. then we can agree on how gildarts vs laxus or erza will play out
i say gildarts beat them high diff (my assumption, again you have to agree if we are to go further in this direction)
if gildarts can beat erza or laxus with high diff, then it is not far fetch to assume that these guys can take out gildarts if gildarts isnt allowed to use magic.
(the above is also somewhat backed with the portrayal that august and human irene are pretty much equal without nullification, copy and dragon thing)


if you agree with everything above. now i can compare irene and august.
durability, speed and attack power for human irene and august doesnt seems that different.
but that one claw was just tiers above anything shown by august and gildarts. this one feat shows that pof erza hit far above gildarts weight. i cant compare deus sema without that claw. nukes of august and irene werent anything special.
no attacks from august will stop erza, it didnt do much to gildarts or cana.
meanwhile that claw will most likely wreck gildarts too
(are you implying, strong characters can be fast as laxus, even though they have no speed feat, tenrou markarov faster than tenrou laxus?)

you know i dont agree with that dues sema weakness which is not in fairy tail manga.

non of them are match for pof erza. this logics only works if erza or laxus can kill FH zeref

that is pof man. feelings making one magic stronger (atleast for the good guys)

 

[Tirl]

Your downplay of Irene is clearly because of your hate for her character

Hi
I saw you posted pics from 48 chapter with Zacky-San marks (I have only til 47), is it only translation or does he still make videos? If so, could you please share link ^_^


And yes, Irene tiers above those xd

 

[Seven777]

invel being more durable than his armor just doesnt make sense to me. but you could be right. it makes me think wahl etherion wouldnt even kill wahl

i try to put some basic standard first
that why i told you gildarts relative standing in the start. gildarts power changed alot from tenrou arc. so we dont actaully know where he stands.
my basic assumption, he is some what a tier above erza and laxus.
if you dont agree with this assumption, nothing i say further would make any sense.

let say you agree with gildarts standing. then we can agree on how gildarts vs laxus or erza will play out
i say gildarts beat them high diff (my assumption, again you have to agree if we are to go further in this direction)
if gildarts can beat erza or laxus with high diff, then it is not far fetch to assume that these guys can take out gildarts if gildarts isnt allowed to use magic.
(the above is also somewhat backed with the portrayal that august and human irene are pretty much equal without nullification, copy and dragon thing)


if you agree with everything above. now i can compare irene and august.
durability, speed and attack power for human irene and august doesnt seems that different.
but that one claw was just tiers above anything shown by august and gildarts. this one feat shows that pof erza hit far above gildarts weight. i cant compare deus sema without that claw. nukes of august and irene werent anything special.
no attacks from august will stop erza, it didnt do much to gildarts or cana.
meanwhile that claw will most likely wreck gildarts too

you know i dont agree with that dues sema weakness which is not in fairy tail manga.

that is pof man. feelings making one magic stronger (atleast for the good guys)

Who knows, even the councils Etherion is featless, all it has is hype.

Nah, I generally agree with your assessment of Gildarts, I simply disagree with your assessment of PoF Erza. You have PoF Erza above Eileen, offensively anyway, I have both her and Gildarts below.

What do you mean weakness? It's not a weakness, simply a trait of physical magic, Deus Sema is no different to any other physical spell in the manga, it can be broken, just like Erza's swords, just like Invel's armor, just like Wahl's missiles, just like Aldarons thorns. You realize even the likes of Kagura can slash through Wahl and Larcade's attacks? Despite being literally onshottable? That Base Natsu can burn through Aldaron's Thicket of Thorns despite being far weaker? Benizakura is just an example, shit being broken by weaker fighters is rampant throughout the manga.

Not what I mean, it's literally a type of magic specific to Natsu

Spoiler

 

[sharkai]

Who knows, even the councils Etherion is featless, all it has is hype.

Nah, I generally agree with your assessment of Gildarts, I simply disagree with your assessment of PoF Erza. You have PoF Erza above Eileen, offensively anyway, I have both her and Gildarts below.

What do you mean weakness? It's no different to any other physical object in the manga, it can be broken, just like Erza's swords, just like Invel's armor, just like Wahl's missiles, just like Aldarons thorns. You realize even the likes of Kagura can slash through Wahl and Larcade's attacks? Despite being literally onshottable? That Base Natsu can burn through Aldaron's Thicket of Thorns despite being far weaker? Benizakura is just an example, shit being broken by weaklings is rampant throughout the manga.

Not what I mean, it's literally a type of magic specific to Natsu

Spoiler

please re read my earlier response, i edited a little

no my point is if invel and wahl are equal, their strongest moves should be equal too

just for one or two moves pof erza was above.

aconologia body is a physical object too?

that is for all mages do that, man. that is why erza or gajeel or laxus pof attacks are so much more stronger. it was pof that unlocked laxus red lightening.

 

[Seven777]

please re read my earlier response, i edited a little

no my point is if invel and wahl are equal, their strongest moves should be equal too

just for one or two moves pof erza was above.

aconologia body is a physical object too?

that is for all mages, man. that is why erza or gajeel or laxus pof attacks are so much more stronger. it was pof that unlocked laxus red lightening. of does that

The only difference I see is you saying Jura didn't prove his hype, neither did Eileen really. She displayed some good magic energy but that's about it, not really any different to the MPF when you scale to Alvarez standards.

Not really, Cana and Juvia should be around equal, doesn't mean their strongest attacks are. But they could be equal, why not? Wahl's Etherion is just as featless as the councils, doesn't really change that Invel's armor is bustable.

Yep, and thats where we disagree, EIleen was clearly portrayed well above Erza.

Sure? Containing the entirety of his magic power, not just the magic power of a single attack. I certainly don't rank Eternal Flare as durable as Acno is

No, it's literally called flames of emotion. Other characters might get some other type of boost, but it's clearly and canonically not what Natsu gets.

 

[sharkai]

The only difference I see is you saying Jura didn't prove his hype, neither did Eileen really. She displayed some good magic energy but that's about it, not really any different to the MPF when you scale to Alvarez standards.

Not really, Cana and Juvia should be around equal, doesn't mean their strongest attacks are. But they could be equal, why not? Wahl's Etherion is just as featless as the councils, doesn't really change that Invel's armor is bustable.

Yep, and thats where we disagree, EIleen was clearly portrayed well above Erza.

Sure? Containing the entirety of his magic power, not just the magic power of a single attack. I certainly don't rank Eternal Flare as durable as Acno is

No, it's literally called flames of emotion. Other characters might get some other type of boost, but it's clearly and canonically not what Natsu gets.

jura had no link with outside. eileen with claw swipe does

cana and juvia attack power could be around each other (not including fairy glitter obviously)

and it was also portrayed that what erza did was impossible

so you think lucy can over power eternal flare or something. physical or not, top tier moves need equal or greater amount of power to destroy it

dont jinx it, we might get erza sword of nakama or someother crap like that. we dont know anything more. when these characters start spouting nakama nonsense, these characters starts doing things they arent suppose to. pof boost.

 

[Seven777]

jura had no link with outside. eileen with claw swipe does

cana and juvia attack power could be around each other (not including fairy glitter obviously)

and it was also portrayed that what erza did was impossible

so you think lucy can over power eternal flare or something. physical or not, top tier moves need equal or greater amount of power to destroy it

dont jinx it, we might get erza sword of nakama or someother crap like that. we dont know anything more. when these characters start spouting nakama nonsense, these characters starts doing things they arent suppose to. pof boost.

What do you mean? Eileen's claw swipe isn't outside, it's squarely inside her fight with Erza.

Fairy Glitter was my point, strongest moves aren't always equal.

That doesn't make her or imply that she might be Eileen tier.

No they don't? I just listed off a bunch of examples of that not happening. Benizakura for Kyria, Benizakura for Minerva, Wahl's Missiles for Kagura, Larcade's Blades for Kagura, Zero's Dark Capricio for Natsu, Aldarons Thorns for Natsu, Aldarons thorns for Gajeel, Mercuphobia's beams for Gray, Acno's attack for Jellal. Not only can characters stop attacks from those above them, they can do it to foes significantly above them, like Acno tier above lol.

Sure, doesn't change the fact that Natsu has something specific to him.

 

[Jko]

Hi
I saw you posted pics from 48 chapter with Zacky-San marks (I have only til 47), is it only translation or does he still make videos? If so, could you please share link ^_^


And yes, Irene tiers above those xd

I don't think he does since he got copyrighted. This was from his imgur of the chapter. You can find it in the pic and summaries of chapter 48 in the Guild Archive.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 9, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 9, 2020 ---

imgur.com/a/guBvGKW

 

[Loke]

Irene pulled up on a battle worn Erza and Wendy and still underperformed. Laxus solos.

 

[Biri Biri]

just to compare : Eileen fought for a time Acnologia, the invincible one, and surprised him until asking her "what is her name" ? When August crossed the same Acno who killed Serena, he was pissing in his pants. Eileen is the only person Acno was interest in, as "human being" (she hide her Dragon's nature vs the Dragon's hunter). The fact is that Acno had interest for Eileen and only turned his back to August like he was not here.

Not a good comparison.

Acno was dead serious against Serena, and tore through him with laser guided focus. Chapter 470, titled 'hybrid theory', was Serena having a blast showing off his DS powers by stomping GOI. This attracted the attention of Acno who happened to be in the vicinity. After slaughtering Serena, Acno stated his conviction to massacre the remaining seven DS. Seven. They were Natsu, Gajeel, Wendy, Laxus, Cobra, Sting and Rogue. The seven DS who eventually faced him in the climax. His calculation at no point included Irene, and is evident that Acno has no prior knowledge, or he couldn't sense, that Irene was a DS.

In chapter 488, when Gajeel was presumably pulled into the underworld by Bloodman, Acno remarked there were six left. Right afterwards, Irene made her presence known to Acno. The murderous intent Acno possessed against Serena was visibly non-existent in his fight with Irene. Acno looked bored and chill af, wondering if Irene could even manage to humour him. He treated the fight as a source of entertainment to kill time. The next time Acno encountered Irene, or rather her corpse, his demeanor took a 180 turn. This time he knew Irene was a DS, and he maniacally desecrated her lifeless body. The manga has shown time and again, that Acno has a grudge against dragons and DS, while having little to no interest in anything else.

Spoiler

Regarding durability. Irene was, according to her own words, wounded by regular attacks from Wendy and Erza.

Spoiler

While August took an attack far likelier to kill anybody, when Brandish used her magic to enlarge a dagger into a broadsword and impaled it through August's chest to the shock of everyone else. All it did was pissed August off, as he quickly transformed and counterattacked without losing a step.

Spoiler

Similar kind of sword wounds were fatal for Gray and Juvia to lie unconscious long enough that Invel thought they were legit dead.

Spoiler

While a sword of a much smaller degree was what actually killed Irene for good.

Spoiler

Irene bled profusely from a regular attack by Erza. Dragon Irene was damaged so badly she was forced out of her dragon form and back into her human body after one attack from POF Erza, who was employing DS magic for the first time in her life. This doesn't bode well for her given that unlike Erza, Laxus isn't a complete novice in utilising DS magic as he had been a DS since he was a child. Irene was grievously wounded and struggling to remain on her feet after that attack. POF Gildarts' strongest attack did put August down, but could not keep him down. August quickly shot up to his feet within mere seconds, then remain composed towards the end and had the strength left to cast Ars Magia. August was clearly more resilient than Irene.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

To quote the characters directly.

Irene: "Pathetic...!! I am the most powerful woman in the empire."
August: "I, August, the strongest of the Spriggan 12, possess enough power to wipe this entire country off the face of the world!!"

 

[Jko]

Zeref is a male and in the empire as well...

 

[sharkai]

What do you mean? Eileen's claw swipe isn't outside, it's squarely inside her fight with Erza.

Fairy Glitter was my point, strongest moves aren't always equal.

That doesn't make her or imply that she might be Eileen tier.

No they don't? I just listed off a bunch of examples of that not happening. Benizakura for Kyria, Benizakura for Minerva, Wahl's Missiles for Kagura, Larcade's Blades for Kagura, Zero's Dark Capricio for Natsu, Aldarons Thorns for Natsu, Aldarons thorns for Gajeel, Mercuphobia's beams for Gray, Acno's attack for Jellal. Not only can characters stop attacks from those above them, they can do it to foes significantly above them, like Acno tier above lol.

Sure, doesn't change the fact that Natsu has something specific to him.

But i can compare erza durability to laxus and gildarts, no?

Fairy glitter does not show us anything about cana powers. That is why i dont include it.

No it implied that what erza did was not what she should be doing. Thus pof erza above normal erza. How far above, i compare it with irene claw swipe and assume that deus sema is far above that claw powerwise (hyped move above non hyped move)

Those examples are confusing. Because we dont know how much one mage is trying.
good example is zancrow and natsu roar. Assuming no magical advantage, if natsu roar disappears and zancrow roars hits natsu, cant we say zancrow is stronger. Gajeel and natsu also had this same situation. This is standard example with mages using an attack we know we can scale to their level of effort. We know gajeel roar and natsu roar are their mid tier attacks (pre ts). If one moves over power the other, then that mage is stronger
That is why i asked you can lucy stop rot aconologia eternal flare. If i say, assume that eternal flare is rot aconologia top tier move, can gildarts stop it, can august stop it (ignore magic type)
How about laxus reiko red lightning? Who can block it? Is there any scenario you can imagine gray attacking reiko red lightning and end results in laxus on his ass while gray looks cool and all

What should be the standard for this, that we can agree on. Not something arbitrary.

I really dont think so. We just dont know much about pof. It just allows characters to do things that thye shouldn't. Natsu vs zeref, erza vs irene, gray vs invel, laxus vs wahl, erza vs kuyoka, and many more.
The problem we have right now, where to put pof erza. This can be solved by how strong one must be to block or overpower moves.

 

[Ronin31]

We really don't know how to scale Pof multiplicater. It is not the same for all characters. Few seemed limitless. The fact is, this amp is tremendeous for Natsu (see Dragon Force last move killing Aldoron and Natsu fighting Gajeel) and Erza (Erza vs Eileen's ending's fight and Erza vs Ajeel). These two characters can amp into another dimension's raw strength.

But for the actual fight, how Laxus and Jellal can compete vs Eileen ? Laxus sure is strong, but the enchantress is clearly in another level. To be honest, for me, she is the second strongest character in Arbaless Arc.

 

[Seven777]

But i can compare erza durability to laxus and gildarts, no?

Fairy glitter does not show us anything about cana powers. That is why i dont include it.

No it implied that what erza did was not what she should be doing. Thus pof erza above normal erza. How far above, i compare it with irene claw swipe and assume that deus sema is far above that claw powerwise (hyped move above non hyped move)

Those examples are confusing. Because we dont know how much one mage is trying.
good example is zancrow and natsu roar. Assuming no magical advantage, if natsu roar disappears and zancrow roars hits natsu, cant we say zancrow is stronger. Gajeel and natsu also had this same situation. This is standard example with mages using an attack we know we can scale to their level of effort. We know gajeel roar and natsu roar are their mid tier attacks (pre ts). If one moves over power the other, then that mage is stronger
That is why i asked you can lucy stop rot aconologia eternal flare. If i say, assume that eternal flare is rot aconologia top tier move, can gildarts stop it, can august stop it (ignore magic type)
How about laxus reiko red lightning? Who can block it? Is there any scenario you can imagine gray attacking reiko red lightning and end results in laxus on his ass while gray looks cool and all

What should be the standard for this, that we can agree on. Not something arbitrary.

I really dont think so. We just dont know much about pof. It just allows characters to do things that thye shouldn't. Natsu vs zeref, erza vs irene, gray vs invel, laxus vs wahl, erza vs kuyoka, and many more.
The problem we have right now, where to put pof erza. This can be solved by how strong one must be to block or overpower moves.

No? At least not if you're talking feats, Gildarts hasn't been damaged by anyone but August. As for Laxus, he's not really relevant, but comparing him is better than comparing Gildarts.

Neither does featless Etherion

No, it implies Erza was above what Eileen thought she should be doing, very different.

Don't we? Erza was trying hard with her best sword, Minerva was trying hard with her fists, the sword broke. Same with the rest, the characters that broke their opponents spells, more often than not, did it with a spell that wasn't their own best, despite being far weaker than their opponent, Cheria swatting Dimaria's finger beams despite needing GS to compete, Wendy doing the same to Dimaria's Full Power attack, Levy doing the same to Bloodmans seal, etc, etc. Besides' it's not like we know how hard Eileen was trying either, significantly less than Erza by the looks of it.
If Zancrows wins, then sure. If Zancrows roar wins, but at the end of the day he still loses, then Natsu is the stronger, and Zancrow's spell was just better for the clash, either through effort, affinity, or something else.
For Lucy, Acno is too high.
For Laxus, Erza could prob bare hand Raiko like she did END and Gray. And for Laxus ending up on his ass, it's not a requirement, Eileen didn't end up on her ass, and Erza didn't overpower the spell, saying that she did would mean that Erza's strike had more energy to spare after breaking the meteor and would have continued to break shit afterwards, nothing suggests this was the case.

There is no standard, it varies from spell to spell just like hax does. I'm simply assuming Eileen is superior because everything in the manga says so, if you don't think the manga says the same then we'll have to agree to disagree, because breaking your opponents shit doesn't put you above them, especially when it comes to physical objects, as this manga has shown time and again literally more often than I can remember. There's probably occasions where it is the case, but I'd wager every single one of them also consistently portrays the breaker as the superior, which is in stark contrast to how Erza was compared to Eileen.

I agree we don't know much about PoF, doesn't change the fact that what we do know is that Natsu has something unique to him.

 

[ald7mi_99]

for one second she was, this is no different than natsu killing zeref. zeref is above august, you think natsu could do to gildarts what august did to him

i agree laxus will beat drakness gray. but for that one hit, i rank darkness gray output above pof laxus output

and because of that bloody lips he commits suicide. broken bones erza was the second strongest good guy in alverzec arc. that girl will later will blow rot aconolgia out of the sky later while gildarts could only watch

jellal isnt faster than erza, never was. gildarts isnt fast mage. jellal lost to august because of hax not speed, same way white witch beat laxus, gajeel and mira and entire fairy tail, yet fell to wendy

i never said irene can break all bones of gildarts with a swipe, but that will still one shot gildarts

last line is your head cannon
gildarts>erza>natsu
pof made natsu beat zeref
pof made erza far above gildarts

august feats are below irene. him beating CS can easily be repllicated by dragon irene. hell you can add gildarts and cana and full powered markarov and GOI in there too. why? simple non of their magic will work on a dragon (exactly the way august beat CS

no she wasn't and natsu didn't kill zeref are you reading the same manga???, alvarez natsu >gildarts erasing FH zeref body is above everything that gild did in alvarez, current natsu will do to him far worser than august did to him.

laxus killed someone had in immunity over his magic, gray knocked out someone that gray had an advantage over him(gray output>laxus output )

deosn't matter what happened((after)) he tanked gildarts strongest spell shown till now which gave him only a bloody lip, irene dragon form got one shotted by a cut from a non DS mage this clearly show that august was more durable than her even in her dragon form.

alvarez, natsu>gild>>>erza no pof included and BTW since you believe erza statements and believe that she always thought that she was stronger than laxus, will she always said that natsu was equal to her and even stronger since phantom arc so why you rank her above natsu????!!

august=irene, but august feats were alot better than her.

and back to the topic irene lose the first round low diffs them the seconed.

 

[Loke]

Irene loses both rounds. Her Dragon Form is getting one by Laxus. Also make her fully healed between rounds. Doesn't matter.

 

[sharkai]

No? At least not if you're talking feats, Gildarts hasn't been damaged by anyone but August. As for Laxus, he's not really relevant, but comparing him is better than comparing Gildarts.

Neither does featless Etherion

No, it implies Erza was above what Eileen thought she should be doing, very different.

Don't we? Erza was trying hard with her best sword, Minerva was trying hard with her fists, the sword broke. Same with the rest, the characters that broke their opponents spells, more often than not, did it with a spell that wasn't their own best, despite being far weaker than their opponent, Cheria swatting Dimaria's finger beams despite needing GS to compete, Wendy doing the same to Dimaria's Full Power attack, Levy doing the same to Bloodmans seal, etc, etc. Besides' it's not like we know how hard Eileen was trying either, significantly less than Erza by the looks of it.
If Zancrows wins, then sure. If Zancrows roar wins, but at the end of the day he still loses, then Natsu is the stronger, and Zancrow's spell was just better for the clash, either through effort, affinity, or something else.
For Lucy, Acno is too high.
For Laxus, Erza could prob bare hand Raiko like she did END and Gray. And for Laxus ending up on his ass, it's not a requirement, Eileen didn't end up on her ass, and Erza didn't overpower the spell, saying that she did would mean that Erza's strike had more energy to spare after breaking the meteor and would have continued to break shit afterwards, nothing suggests this was the case.

There is no standard, it varies from spell to spell just like hax does. I'm simply assuming Eileen is superior because everything in the manga says so, if you don't think the manga says the same then we'll have to agree to disagree, because breaking your opponents shit doesn't put you above them, especially when it comes to physical objects, as this manga has shown time and again literally more often than I can remember. There's probably occasions where it is the case, but I'd wager every single one of them also consistently portrays the breaker as the superior, which is in stark contrast to how Erza was compared to Eileen.

I agree we don't know much about PoF, doesn't change the fact that what we do know is that Natsu has something unique to him.

That why i asked you to acceot my assumption of gildarts placing with respect to erza and laxus.
So yes i can, unless you disagree with gildarts placement

There is nothing special about of etherion, its a weapon thats it. Stop bring legendary spells and comparing them with normal spells. Gmg cana strongest move was above gmg laxus strongest move. Who in the right mind would say gmg cana is above gmg laxus.

Erm whats your point. Erza at this level was above anything irene saw before. Pof erza >> erza

Demon Minerva broke nakagami?
Kiria broke belserion?

Dimeria, bloodman are like august. There primary power are not strength but hax. You think wendy can block full power serena or full power laxus moves

Blocking or destroying powerful moves always creates a shock effect, just like what happened with deus sema


I have two questions here
1) are mages who produces physical attacks inherently weaker than mages who dont? Because their attacks are more likely to break compared to say fire or lightning or time or dark zeref waves
2) assuming erza belserion is equal to laxus reiko red lightning, lets say laxus can only cast reiko red lightning 5 times, and of course, all erza really need to do after conjuring tye belserion sword is to swing. Is each of erza swing equal to laxus reiko red lightning? Wouldnt that be extreme unfair advantage to erza. How would you equalize them



Ok you assume eileen is superior, but what about gildarts. Is gildarts superior to natsu, wasnt august superior to gildarts, wasnt zeref superior to august. If natsu with his unique pof can overcome zeref. Why cant erza do it with her own outrageous pof?

Natsu has no special feeling thing. Never mentioned by marakrov or erza. He has hidden potential, nothing more.

 

[Jko]

Laxus was out of magic fighting Erza without PoF and no Wendy buffs yet he is supposed to be on Irene's level???

Y'all guys also really forget Erza lost that fight despite having multiple factors against Irene which Laxus clearly doesn't have.

And don't act like him being a stronger DS than Wendy means anything as he practically did the same damage to Zirconis as Wendy did lol. Wendy also has the better skillset to face Irene just like she did against WW who fodderized Laxus.

Laxus is in no shape 1v1-ing Irene. Irene has way too many wins. Strips his magic, bfrs him, puts a sword through his face, turns his magic into flowers, turns him into a pet, blows his brains out, or straight up outstats him.