Team Team August vs Team Irene

[Nie Li]

So, all concludes in "Mashima is not best mangaka". Ok, I got that position.

No, not really. The conclusion to your answers was much more elaborated than that.

"Mashima is not best mangaka" is only a reflexion on "but why couldn't August have...", because there are plenty of ways August could have won the Gildarts and Cana fight, but I think that the way August's magic works is pretty clear and straight forward.

But why same should not be applied to his "hype" battles or "feelings power-ups" ?
Like f.e. first "battle" between Team Natsu and 3 DE ?

I don't understand what you're asking me here and I don't remember what DE stands for. If you'd be so kind as to explain me what you mean, I'll answer.

 

[Verter]

I don't understand what you're asking me here and I don't remember what DE stands for. If you'd be so kind as to explain me what you mean, I'll answer.

Actually, it was rhetoric question.
It's not rare when someones "pull" one scene out of context and say - "it's canon".
When other guys pull out in similar way different scenes, which are in contradiction with previous one - first one say - "bad mangaka etc".

Actually, i see it very often. Especially in that "stupid fight" threads, where ppl don't take any circumstances.
Also, they don't even respect any feelings of other ppl which can be affected by their "posts".

I saw a big post yesterday about... if in short: Kyria > Wendy. Laxus > Kyria, Wendy > Irene, so Kiria solo Irene. Something like it.
So if we suggest movements or abilities for August.. which he never did or shown, and we call it like "bad writing", - shall we also use similar logic with that fight between DE and Team Natsu?

 

[Nie Li]

Actually, it was rhetoric question.
It's not rare when someones "pull" one scene out of context and say - "it's canon".
When other guys pull out in similar way different scenes, which are in contradiction with previous one - first one say - "bad mangaka etc".

Actually, i see it very often. Especially in that "stupid fight" threads, where ppl don't take any circumstances.
Also, they don't even respect any feelings of other ppl which can be affected by their "posts".

I saw a big post yesterday about... if in short: Kyria > Wendy. Laxus > Kyria, Wendy > Irene, so Kiria solo Irene. Something like it.
So if we suggest movements or abilities for August.. which he never did or shown, and we call it like "bad writing", - shall we also use similar logic with that fight between DE and Team Natsu?

I don't know about Kyria's fight, but from what you're telling me, I think that it's different.

I'm not suggesting skills for August that he has not shown in the manga nor that come from my imagination; every skill I acknowledge August has it's either because he has shown it or simply because "that's what his power is": instantly understanding and copying any magic that's casted in his presence.

For example, we haven't seen much from Ignia, but we know that he's a "fire dragon slayer" and a god tier, so of course I expect him to be able to do everything that Natsu can with fire ds magic, but better. In the same way, we have been told that August can copy any magic, and he has been shown doing it even without coming in direct contact with said magic's caster, so of course I believe he can copy any magic. And since when his power was explained it was exemplified with August using a fire spell against Natsu, I expect said spell to be a copied fire dragon slayer magic spell.


My complaint on how Mashima handled his final fight is actually that August had shown many magic skills with which he could have either dodged or blocked Gildarts' attack. Even just turning into cubes and moving away sould have allowed him to dodge better than he did, but he didn't even try, and that's weird. It's still not really important because Gildarts' attack didn't even knock him out anyway.

 

[Ramen]

Acnologia, throughout the fight, was either in par with Igneel or had a slight edge, but suddenly he's down for quite a lot of time (a minute or more)?

Igneel was just as good in physicals being half dead. What really saved him was his immunity but being beaten for a bit made sense.

 

[Seven777]

Yes, he does. He didn't know anyones magic until they activated it. Bcs everyone was noted to be a DS. Why would Neinheart be a ds when he basically summons dead people? When did August have lightning DS magic? If August had ds magic then why didn't he just eat Laxus' spell? Why didn't he eat the explosion caused by Gild's punch? You guys are saying he has DS magic when nothing indicates he does. If he could copy's people's magic by only looking at them then he wouldn't be surprised by people's magic when they use them lol.

Spoiler

You guys are making his magic better than what it actually is.

Gray's DeS marks aren't his tattoo. They are the byproduct of him overusing DeS magic. I was wrong about Cana, but Mavis already said she only lent it to her once. Cana learned to use it on her own like Gray learned to use DeS magic. Gray doesn't even have his tattoo anymore and it doesn't activate when he using DeS magic.

Why would August be a DS when he basically just copies people? If Neinhart isn't a DS, then neither is August.
When he saved Ajeel.
Why would he? Acno doesn't eat every spell he sees. Even Natsu doesn't when he fights Jackal, he gets knocked out.
What are you talking about everything indicates he does, the only magic he can't copy is holder magic because it relies on tools, you saying he can't do it to DS magic is just an arbitrary rule you invented and the fact that he used Natsu's Fire DS magic in Gildarts flashback confirms that you're wrong.
So you're saying August had never seen Midnight use refraction lol? Cause he had that same reaction.
It's not a matter of making his magic better than it is, it's simply a matter of the magic doing what it says it does, which is copy magic, you're the one trying to make up your own little rules about how it functions.

A byproduct he got after facing Mard Geer, and which remained with him til Alvarez.
Mavis gave Cana Fairy Glitter, and from there Cana mastered it's use for the games, same with Gray and DeS magic, same with every DS with their magic, they learned to use it themselves, that's why Natsu said Igneel taught him DS magic. There is no difference between how he uses DS magic and how Gray and Cana do, they were all given there magic and have since had to improve on it, Cana to this day has the tattoo Mavis gave her.

 

[Axiomus]

I see, so face failed to wipe off magic from the dragons themselves. You're right about this. So, this means face isn't powerful enough to take magic from dragons, or at the very least, would take out of time to do so.

But I find it very hard to believe that Acnologia being floored by Igneel at the same time as when face activated, was a mere coincidence. Acnologia, throughout the fight, was either in par with Igneel or had a slight edge, but suddenly he's down for quite a lot of time (a minute or more)? Seems very fishy.
Yeah, I guess he simply recovered that magic power. The rate of recovery is also dependent on the vessel size, right (I assume larger vessels have larger pipes)? So it's not hard to imagine Acnologia recovering that much MP in that time

Yeah, basically the parent dragons had high enough reserves that they could wipe out face before it wipes out their MP.

I find it harder to believe that someone could recover so much MP in such a short period of time. Besides, wouldn't he revert to his human form if he was wiped of all MP? We know that Mercphobia reverted to a human form when he got wiped, and he's not even human to begin with. Face may have simply distracted Acnologia long enough for Igneel to get a hit in, and not necessarily effect one more than the other.

 

[Verter]

the fact that he used Natsu's Fire DS magic in Gildarts flashback confirms that you're wrong.

He never used it in flashback,

Need not call it as "facts" if it never exist in manga.

N.B. Since @Axiomus did npt disprove it, I record it as his position as well.

 

[Seven777]

He never used it in flashback,

Need not call it as "facts" if it never exist in manga.

N.B. Since @Axiomus did npt disprove it, I record it as his position as well.

He did, that flashback was literally a list of examples of all the times August used magic he copied against their owners

I don't know why you're so desperate to claim Axiomus' stance on things or why you're telling me about it, but you could always just ask

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

Need not call it as "facts" if it never exist in manga.

Is that why the melt spell was shown in the flashback in the manga when Gildarts was explaining the mechanism behind August magic. We are supposed to believe your headcanon while ignoring an entire panel that was put by Mashima.

 

[Verter]

Is that why the melt spell was shown in the flashback in the manga when Gildarts was explaining the mechanism behind August magic. We are supposed to believe your headcanon while ignoring an entire panel that was put by Mashima.

Main difference between you and me IS I can be neutral and don't "agro" on personalities and their posts.

I said before, if you state something, you must prove it.

There's not any prove it was DS magic (furthermore, August used "regular" (non-DS) powerful flame/fire magic before).

Real headcanon (if you use that term) is call it as "DS magic", because I mark it one more time - manga never said it's DS magic.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 13, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 13, 2020 ---

***

Also, I want to notice. It's not only my position.

There's sources, which usually try to be neutral and objective. Like Fairy Tail wikia.
That source (which is collective work of a lot of ppl) never mention any DS skill by August.

 

[Tirl]

Why we argue about August and DS magic?
1. August doesnt use different magic, he uses only his copy magic and recreate other magic with that.
2. August can use DS magic and DS spells but it doesnt make HIM a DS, he just recreate this magic with his copy magic. Thats all.
3. If so, he cant become dragon or use DF cuz he doesnt have any seeds cuz he doesnt use DS magic itself, he just recreate it.

PS. Rufus with his memory make can easily make God Slaying magic but that doeant make him a slayer.

This argue is the same as saying that Erza is DS cuz she has DS sword xd

Main difference between you and me IS I can be neutral and don't "agro" on personalities and their posts.

I dont have that post, but dont you remember how you called Axiomus "the worst moderator" (not exact quote) only cuz he wasnt agree with your opinion on other topic?

 

[Seven777]

Also, I want to notice. It's not only my position.

There's sources, which usually try to be neutral and objective. Like Fairy Tail wikia.
That source (which is collective work of a lot of ppl) never mention any DS skill by August.

Hate to break it to ya bro, but you're "neutral and objective source", the Fairy Tail wikia, says August knows Fire Dragon Slaying magic. They mention it both on their August page and the Fire Dragon Slaying magic page lmao.

 

[Verter]

I dont have that post, but dont you remember how you called Axiomus "the worst moderator" (not exact quote) only cuz he wasnt agree with your opinion on other topic?

I don't have habit to disprove fact. Yes, that case happened.
Well, actually I belong to minority here who ever /at least once/ recognised their mistakes.
So, you statement is incorrect here. You should start with other ppl to be "objective".

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

Main difference between you and me IS I can be neutral and don't "agro" on personalities and their posts.

Ya right, Says the guy who has been tagging @Axiomus through every chapter discussion thread and bashing on the DG and DE calling them trash because he didn't share your view on Irene being able to beat DG so please don't bother bringing this neutral bullshit. You are noting like neutral.

There's not any prove it was DS magic (furthermore, August used "regular" (non-DS) powerful flame/fire magic before).

All the panels that were shown when the mechanism behind August's magic was explained by Gildarts were from little skirmish and fights he had in Alvarez arc. His fight against Natsu. His fight against Crime Societe. His fight against Gildarts. Either you argue Melt was a spell he copied some random no-name that never appeared in the manga or It was DS magic. That spell was a copied spell otherwise Mashima wouldn't have bothered putting it when he was explaining it copied.

There's sources, which usually try to be neutral and objective. Like Fairy Tail wikia.

I suggest you go to fairy tale wiki and type August in the search bar and run down through his abilities. You can nicely see Fire Dragon Slayer Magic listed as his abilities. You didn't bother to go through any of these sources and then try to tag @Axiomus bitching he didn't disapprove of @Seven777 stance So please don't talk about you being neutral.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 13, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 13, 2020 ---

Well, actually I belong to minority here who ever /at least once/ recognised their mistakes

Ya right.

 

[grey matter]

@Moegara
Regarding August fight against Gildarts, remember he not only has Jellol's defenses, but also Midnight's REFLECTOR

The Reflector gives the user immunity from ANY attack which isn't organic (like human body for eg). The reflector would've rendered Gildart's final spell utterly useless, and in fact even turned the spell back to Gildarts himself if August wished to.

With Reflector, August will not only have immunity to caster magic, but nearly ALL forms of damage including those from holder magic. So, this argument of "holder magic counters" becomes almost moot IMO.

Mashima didn't realize how broken he made August with his copy hax.
He can be possibly the fastest character in the series if he combines Racer's magic and Jellol's meteor (with any other speed magic he might have copies in the past).
Nearly invincible to any forms of magic if he combines his copy hax, Midnight's reflector and Ajeel's sand (if he copies, this would complete the immunity by giving him immunity to even physical damage). Considering he has been exposed to most, if not all, Spriggans using their magic, he should technically have all their magic (except Bradman and maybe Larcade who use curse, and MAYBE Serena whose DS magic comes from Lacrima - a tool.. I'm not sure on this part) with even more mastery! Broken AF
Nothing (at least within his tier) should technically work against this dude lmao

 

[Seven777]

@Moegara
Regarding August fight against Gildarts, remember he not only has Jellol's defenses, but also Midnight's REFLECTOR

The Reflector gives the user immunity from ANY attack which isn't organic (like human body for eg). The reflector would've rendered Gildart's final spell utterly useless, and in fact even turned the spell back to Gildarts himself if August wished to.

With Reflector, August will not only have immunity to caster magic, but nearly ALL forms of damage including those from holder magic. So, this argument of "holder magic counters" becomes almost moot IMO.

Mashima didn't realize how broken he made August with his copy hax.
He can be possibly the fastest character in the series if he combines Racer's magic and Jellol's meteor (with any other speed magic he might have copies in the past).
Nearly invincible to any forms of magic if he combines his copy hax, Midnight's reflector and Ajeel's sand (if he copies, this would complete the immunity by giving him immunity to even physical damage). Considering he has been exposed to most, if not all, Spriggans using their magic, he should technically have all their magic (except Bradman and maybe Larcade who use curse, and MAYBE Serena whose DS magic comes from Lacrima - a tool.. I'm not sure on this part) with even more mastery! Broken AF
Nothing (at least within his tier) should technically work against this dude lmao

There’s only one character within his tier and it’s Eileen, who could kill him with claw swipe, he also has to react to an attack to use refract it so if you just outmatch him in CQC you win.

 

[grey matter]

There’s only one character within his tier and it’s Eileen, who could kill him with claw swipe, he also has to react to an attack to use refract it so if you just outmatch him in CQC you win.

The refract can be cast default around your body, like Midnight did (he had refract around him when he was sleeping, during OS intro).

I don't think Eileen can one shot him with swipe, the dude tanked Gildarts strongest attack without immunity (just had a bloody lip). It'll take multiple swipes to defeat August.

From what he has shown, yes, if you outmatch him in CQC, you win (I can argue he knows Ajeel's sand magic, which can give him physical immunity. But you can ignore it if you don't buy this argument, since he hasn't shown he's copied Ajeel's magic).
But this guy was outmatching Gildarts in CQC, without using any enhancements to his combat ability (except towards the end, where he used meteor, but at this point he already showed us that he was above Gildarts in CQC by himself).
And now add to that, Jellol's and Racer's speed magics (these are the magics he has SHOWN to have copied, imagine what all he might have learned outside of what's shown to us. He's been said to be even more versatile than Zeref before the arc started),
Ignoring CIS, August will be literally untouchable in CQC within his tier by just using meteor, Racer's magic and Cobra's mind read alone. Add to that many other combat magic combinations we haven't see from him, and you'll see where I'm coming from (or don't, if you don't wanna go speculation mode. Just the three magics I mentioned above are enough to make him unbeatable in CQC within his tier),
August is literally unbeatable within his tier

 

[Seven777]

The refract can be cast default around your body, like Midnight did (he had refract around him when he was sleeping, during OS intro).

I don't think Eileen can one shot him with swipe, the dude tanked Gildarts strongest attack without immunity (just had a bloody lip). It'll take multiple swipes to defeat August.

From what he has shown, yes, if you outmatch him in CQC, you win (I can argue he knows Ajeel's sand magic, which can give him physical immunity. But you can ignore it if you don't buy this argument, since he hasn't shown he's copied Ajeel's magic).
But this guy was outmatching Gildarts in CQC, without using any enhancements to his combat ability (except towards the end, where he used meteor, but at this point he already showed us that he was above Gildarts in CQC by himself).
And now add to that, Jellol's and Racer's speed magics (these are the magics he has SHOWN to have copied, imagine what all he might have learned outside of what's shown to us. He's been said to be even more versatile than Zeref before the arc started),
Ignoring CIS, August will be literally untouchable in CQC within his tier by just using meteor, Racer's magic and Cobra's mind read alone. Add to that many other combat magic combinations we haven't see from him, and you'll see where I'm coming from (or don't, if you don't wanna go speculation mode. Just the three magics I mentioned above are enough to make him unbeatable in CQC within his tier),
August is literally unbeatable within his tier

Midnights does, August's doesn't, likely due to the fact that he has to cast other magic.

I didn't say oneshot, I said she could kill him.
As for Ajeel's magic, he turns swords into sand, not really useful against Eileen. He can turn into sand himself too but he has to consciously do that, so August might as well just dodge, it's probably more efficient
Not really, Gildarts held up well in CQC.
Jellal's not untouchable in Meteor, so August isn't either. Meteor increases movement speed, not CQC speed, similar to Laxus lightning body.

Like I said, there is only one character in August's tier, and he is far from unbeatable. In terms of speed, Eileen can enchant herself and in terms of CQC, her dragon form is unmatched, staying away and spamming spells is the only way he survives.

 

[Jko]

Why would August be a DS when he basically just copies people? If Neinhart isn't a DS, then neither is August.
When he saved Ajeel.
Why would he? Acno doesn't eat every spell he sees. Even Natsu doesn't when he fights Jackal, he gets knocked out.
What are you talking about everything indicates he does, the only magic he can't copy is holder magic because it relies on tools, you saying he can't do it to DS magic is just an arbitrary rule you invented and the fact that he used Natsu's Fire DS magic in Gildarts flashback confirms that you're wrong.
So you're saying August had never seen Midnight use refraction lol? Cause he had that same reaction.
It's not a matter of making his magic better than it is, it's simply a matter of the magic doing what it says it does, which is copy magic, you're the one trying to make up your own little rules about how it functions.

A byproduct he got after facing Mard Geer, and which remained with him til Alvarez.
Mavis gave Cana Fairy Glitter, and from there Cana mastered it's use for the games, same with Gray and DeS magic, same with every DS with their magic, they learned to use it themselves, that's why Natsu said Igneel taught him DS magic. There is no difference between how he uses DS magic and how Gray and Cana do, they were all given there magic and have since had to improve on it, Cana to this day has the tattoo Mavis gave her.

August would be DS bcs he would directly be using DS magic. Not summon people who do.

He used a barrier.

Natsu started eating every spell right afterwards. Acno was pretty munchy in the end. Still don't see why he wouldn't just eat the magic if he could.

Not a rule I invented, a rule the manga invented. August can't copy magic that comes from an external source. That was his stated weakness. DS magic comes from an external source aka Dragons.

Gildarts flashback confirms nothing but melt being a previously copied magic. Nothing in the text said that was DS magic or even fire magic. It was stated only to be heat based magic lmao.

August saw Midnight use refractor when he used it lol. He had the same face bcs he did not know he could use said magic. It's called instaneous copy and neutralization magic for a reason as he instaneously copies magic when it's activated. If he already copy their magic as soon as he met them then he would have already know their magics before they used them. Like literally nothing in the manga indicates he copies magic by simply looking at people lol.

The byproduct came from his DeS magic not Mard Geer. He learned to do DS on his own lol. No, Cana did not master FG which is why Mavis had to lent it to her in the first place. Igneel enchanted Natsu with his Fire DS magic. It's stated they got their magic through a Dragon enchanting them.

Spoiler

Natsu said Igneel taught him bcs he taught him how to use the techs not that he literally taught him to become a DS lol. Natsu even says he got his powers from Dragons like every other DS did.

Spoiler

There is a difference. Natsu was enchanted to permanently become a Dragon Slayer while the other two were only lent temporary magic and they learned how to use it later down the line without assistance. Natsu temporarily using Igneel's mp would be a more accurate comparison.

 

[Seven777]

August would be DS bcs he would directly be using DS magic. Not summon people who do.

He used a barrier.

Natsu started eating every spell right afterwards. Acno was pretty munchy in the end. Still don't see why he wouldn't just eat the magic if he could.

Not a rule I invented, a rule the manga invented. August can't copy magic that comes from an external source. That was his stated weakness. DS magic comes from an external source aka Dragons.

Gildarts flashback confirms nothing but melt being a previously copied magic. Nothing in the text said that was DS magic or even fire magic. It was stated only to be heat based magic lmao.

August saw Midnight use refractor when he used it lol. He had the same face bcs he did not know he could use said magic. It's called instaneous copy and neutralization magic for a reason as he instaneously copies magic when it's activated. If he already copy their magic as soon as he met them then he would have already know their magics before they used them. Like literally nothing in the manga indicates he copies magic by simply looking at people lol.

The byproduct came from his DeS magic not Mard Geer. He learned to do DS on his own lol. No, Cana did not master FG which is why Mavis had to lent it to her in the first place. Igneel enchanted Natsu with his Fire DS magic. It's stated they got their magic through a Dragon enchanting them.

Spoiler

Natsu said Igneel taught him bcs he taught him how to use the techs not that he literally taught him to become a DS lol. Natsu even says he got his powers from Dragons like every other DS did.

Spoiler

There is a difference. Natsu was enchanted to permanently become a Dragon Slayer while the other two were only lent temporary magic and they learned how to use it later down the line without assistance. Natsu temporarily using Igneel's mp would be a more accurate comparison.

No, he'd be using his copy magic to use DS. It's DS magic by proxy, no different to Neinhart. There's no more reason to highlight him as a DS than there is for Neinhart, or for Bloodman being a DeS. Or for Erza to be both
So?
Indeed he did, after getting knocked out by Jackal. It's something he had to figure out

DS magic doesn't come from external sources, it's caster magic, it comes from Natsu, he uses no tool to use his DS spells
Gildarts flashback confirms it, of the 5 examples he gave every single one of them was August using magic he copied against their owners. Why the hell would Mashima choose JUST ONE of those examples to be a random magic he copied from some random character at some random point in the past? Makes absolutely no sense.
Even if he couldn't, that just means he's seen Natsu's magic before.

Exactly, the byproduct came from him using DeS magic, aka power that was given to hm.
Yes, exactly, Mavis had to lend it to her in the first place and yet August's magic still works on it.
So? I know they got their power from dragons, just like Cana and Gray got their magic from Mavis and Silver, Gray and Cana learned a thing or two after recieving their power, just like Natsu did. August can copy given magic, this is fact, as long as it's not holder magic he is good to go.