Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

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Shinuki no Reborn

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MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #51 - VOTING!​

The poll for issue #51 is now open, vote for your favorite chapters of the week clicking HERE!

Alongside the release of Sakamoto Days, the extra series this week are:

-Dragon Ball Super 66
-Boruto: Naruto Next Generations 52
-Ghost Reaper Girl 10


Good Votes!
 
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Halloween

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Moderator Notice:
Henceforth, I will be deleting posts that complain about Weekly Shonen Jump having too many/not enough gag/battle/exorcism/sports/etc series.

These posts are not insightful, and do not meaningfully contribute to this thread. Also, this decision is not up for discussion, so posts discussing this decision will also be deleted.~ Halloween
 
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Ryuusei

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呪 僕 O マ ブ S C D 破 C B 夜 C 僕 あ 灼 ぼ チ 高 ア 森 A 仄 ぼ 次号カラー ヒロアカ アンデラ 夜桜 約ネバ 道産子 GIGA 岸本先生が描くコラボポスター 爆豪クリアファイル
Jujutsu Kaisen (Cover & LCP)
My Hero Academia
One Piece
Mashle
Black Clover
Sakamoto Days (CP)
Dr. Stone
Magu-chan: God of Destruction (CP)
Build King
Mission: Yozakura Family
Me & Roboco
Ayakashi Triangle (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai
We Never Learn
Chainsaw Man
Koukousei Kazoku
Undead Unluck
Moriking
Agravity Boys
Honomieru Shounen
Bokura no Ketsumei

Issue #1
Cover & LCP: My Hero Academia
CP: Undead Unluck, Mission: Yozakura Family, The Promised Neverland, Dosanko Gyaru wa Namaramenkoi

GIGA Preview
Collab poster by Kishimoto
Bakugou clear file
 
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Lord fifth

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Did OP really exploded in the West though ?
The west isn't only America,one piece is quite popular in Europe.

One piece has currently 80 million copies in circulation outside japan whole its lower than naruto's 100-110 world wide its still higher than beach's 30 million.
 

Rouk'

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Did OP really exploded in the West though ?
Here's a little chart I made.
Source for 2003 to 2015 is ACBD (Archived link, French)
After that, I had to use whatever I could find (articles, etc), so a lot of data is missing, but the general trend is still there. Couldn't find any Bleach stuff after 2015, though.

Gotta keep in mind that these are print numbers for new volumes. In terms of total sales, we know that One Piece started outselling Naruto in 2011. (source in French).

Also, don't pay too much attention the the vol. 95 drop for One Piece, they apparently gave it a smaller first print to limit their stock because of covid.
 
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101nemesis

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While I understand that sales are clealy important, I believe most of the longer series, especially the Big 3, managed to create a sense of community in other parts of the world around them over the yeaŕs which is now their legacy.

I do not know if KnY has the possibility to do that now that has ended, while I am pretty confident its numbers will reach those of Bleach.

Looking at the all-time top selling list which surpassed 100 million copies, most of them has a distinctive feature that made them famous and remembered, while KnY is a collection of good elements, but, in my opinion, it does not have an iconic characteristic, which sets it apart fron other shonen manga, apart from the sales records.
Eh. This is just an opinion being disguised as a fact.

Full Metal Alchemist, Death note are all shorter series that are considered to be among the most important franchises out there.
Just like Death Note, Kimetsu's legacy will be clear few years down the line.

Stop this insistent attempt at trying to downplay Kimetsu and it's legacy.
 

Chuck_Atlas

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I don’t know if I would call FMA a short series, yes it was a monthly series, but still ran for a decade, that ain’t no short series lol, but alas I get the point

The Yozakura vomic was fun, looking forward to other series’ vomics
 

savethecat

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Yu Yu Hakusho is 19 volumes and 174 chapters(aka shorter than Demon Slayer) and it’s gone down as one of Jump’s most iconic series world wide. And even today ppl name it one of the best Shonen series, and is commonly on people’s personal “favorite anime of all time” list
 

tirakai

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the thing about Kimetsu no Yaiba is that it still has years of content left, even if the manga's finished.

Ass Class for example will probably make little impact despite technically being the second biggest hit of the 10s (unless Jujutsu overtakes it) since the anime was a rushed adaptation that ended soon after the manga did, within a year of the manga ending its era at the top was pretty much wrapped up and done.

Kimetsu no Yaiba's anime however still has at least 2-3 years left until we can expect it to be completed. It's not going to mostly disappear after a year like Ass Class did.
 

RafGL

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While I understand that sales are clealy important, I believe most of the longer series, especially the Big 3, managed to create a sense of community in other parts of the world around them over the yeaŕs which is now their legacy.

I do not know if KnY has the possibility to do that now that has ended, while I am pretty confident its numbers will reach those of Bleach.

Looking at the all-time top selling list which surpassed 100 million copies, most of them has a distinctive feature that made them famous and remembered, while KnY is a collection of good elements, but, in my opinion, it does not have an iconic characteristic, which sets it apart fron other shonen manga, apart from the sales records.
I dont get how people still fails to see what they only consider sales imply, moreso with Kimetsu no Yaiba. It's a work that has managed to create such a simplistic yet charming world, with characters appealing to every single demography, going from kids to elders with no exception. Managing to create a work that conveys such a simple yet meaningful message is already a hard task itself. Thinking every work needs to have a complex characteristic or trait is just contradicting one of the principles of basic communication, which is simplicity and concision.

Complex traits have of course their effort and should be acknowledged as such, don't get me wrong, but it's just as hard if not more to get such a large and varied audience to look at the message, understand it, accept it and adopt it by consuming the series being something they can see offered in such a large amount of other manga. And this is not about a work appealing to different age audiences at different points of its publication such as other long runner works could do, but doing it with every single group at the same time.

That's already more than enough of a feat to stop downplaying a work just because it's more simple than others, which is just nothing more than a handicap to get such an amount of loyal fans and readers. Liking it more or less is completely fair, that's just a matter of individual preferences. Thinking its only achievement is "sales" without properly looking at what are the reasons behind those is just ignoring everything the work offers and makes it appealing to an audience that can have different tastes.
 

savethecat

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the thing about Kimetsu no Yaiba is that it still has years of content left, even if the manga's finished.

Ass Class for example will probably make little impact despite technically being the second biggest hit of the 10s (unless Jujutsu overtakes it) since the anime was a rushed adaptation that ended soon after the manga did, within a year of the manga ending its era at the top was pretty much wrapped up and done.

Kimetsu no Yaiba's anime however still has at least 2-3 years left until we can expect it to be completed. It's not going to mostly disappear after a year like Ass Class did.
I also imagine we’ll be getting light novel and One shot adaptations, of the ones we already have and any future light novel adaptations. And there’s a ton of potential for different spin off manga and light novel milking that they haven’t even tapped into yet. But I imagine they will.
Light novels giving more backstory and expanding the lore on each individual pillars, and other characters. Light Novels expanding of the post timeskip ending.

Even after they finish adapting the manga, I’m sure there will be more content they’ll continue adapting into OVAs, films etc.
 

NeeNeen

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While I understand that sales are clealy important, I believe most of the longer series, especially the Big 3, managed to create a sense of community in other parts of the world around them over the yeaŕs which is now their legacy.

I do not know if KnY has the possibility to do that now that has ended, while I am pretty confident its numbers will reach those of Bleach.

Looking at the all-time top selling list which surpassed 100 million copies, most of them has a distinctive feature that made them famous and remembered, while KnY is a collection of good elements, but, in my opinion, it does not have an iconic characteristic, which sets it apart fron other shonen manga, apart from the sales records.
Eh. This is just an opinion being disguised as a fact.

Full Metal Alchemist, Death note are all shorter series that are considered to be among the most important franchises out there.
Just like Death Note, Kimetsu's legacy will be clear few years down the line.

Stop this insistent attempt at trying to downplay Kimetsu and it's legacy.
He literally said "in my opinion" (or variations thereof) in every paragraph. How the hell is anything disguised as fact?

I know you want Kimetsu to be (more) successful, but right now, we simply do not know yet what its long-term legacy is going to be (nor its influence outside Japan). You can hope and predict all you like, but please, don't go and tell other people to stop having a different opinion on the matter. This is a discussion forum, not a cult.
 

Ryuusei

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I guess this whole discussion on Kimetsu no Yaiba's legacy stems from how fast it has all happened and how it's heavily concentrated in Japan. A bit over a year ago we were on the edge of our seats checking every weekly chart to see if One Piece would be finally be beaten in yearly sales after years of monopoly. A year later and Kimetsu no Yaiba has completely taken over Japan. It has broken a ridiculous amount of records and some of them were previously considered almost unbeatable.

Many might use One Piece, Dragon Ball, Bleach and Naruto's lasting legacies as arguments but that's probably because we have lived through them, especially as people that have lived outside of Japan and have been heavily influenced by those series. These series' legacies are tangible to us, we've seen them stand the test of time and remain relevant to this day. But as the scale of Kimetsu no Yaiba's phenomenon in Japan and out of it aren't the same, it doesn't feel as impactful for people that are looking at it from the outside.

It's only natural many would feel doubtful of the series's impact because it happened too fast with such a short series. It's a complete anomaly, something that no one could have ever predicted. Many (myself included) doubted Kimetsu no Yaiba would continue to blow up as much as it did and we've been proven wrong every time. But as has been proven countless times by countless events related to the series, Kimetsu no Yaiba's impact is huge and will most definitely be felt years from now.
 
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Konja9

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He literally said "in my opinion" (or variations thereof) in every paragraph. How the hell is anything disguised as fact?

I know you want Kimetsu to be (more) successful, but right now, we simply do not know yet what its long-term legacy is going to be (nor its influence outside Japan). You can hope and predict all you like, but please, don't go and tell other people to stop having a different opinion on the matter. This is a discussion forum, not a cult.
In my opinion, it is a little strange to believe a manga won't have a big legacy just because you think this doesn't have iconic characteristics.

I mean, there are manga manga I find generic, but these have big legacy.
 

ItsSamu

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Semi-relevant to Demon Slayer discussion, when do you think Gotouge will/should start another manga? This was their first serialisation so I'd hope they'll have a long career across across multiple titles, but does anyone think they might end on a high rather than be under immense pressure with their next series? I also wonder if they'd want to wait until the Demon Slayer phenomenon shows signs of dying down and gets fully adapted.

Personally I'd love if they came back soon and I'd imagine news of their return (especially if to Jump) would be a big moment.
 
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101nemesis

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He literally said "in my opinion" (or variations thereof) in every paragraph. How the hell is anything disguised as fact?

I know you want Kimetsu to be (more) successful, but right now, we simply do not know yet what its long-term legacy is going to be (nor its influence outside Japan). You can hope and predict all you like, but please, don't go and tell other people to stop having a different opinion on the matter. This is a discussion forum, not a cult.
The entire comment was phrased as a fact but sure, lets go off on the technicality that the post mentioned "I" in multiple places.
It also doesn't help that the logic used in that comment is what you see used on Twitter by people who want to downplay Kimetsu's success all the damn time.

Lastly - I don't care about Kimetsu. I haven't read it past the Mugen train arc. So if people forget about it tomorrow, I won't bat an eye. But it's pretty shortsighted to think that something THIS popular, breaking records not just in the manga industry but multiple other entertainment industries as well won't have a major lasting legacy. It's a big cultural hit like Kimetsu that can often shift industries to new trends.

Cult? What? Lol. What a weird word to use on a manga forum.
 

pamuchi

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Semi-relevant to Demon Slayer discussion, when do you think Gotoge will/should start another manga? This was their first serialisation so I'd hope they'll have a long career across across multiple titles, but does anyone think they might end on a high rather than be under immense pressure with their next series? I also wonder if they'd want to wait until the Demon Slayer phenomenon shows signs of dying down and gets fully adapted.

Personally I'd love if they came back soon and I'd imagine news of their return (especially if to Jump) would be a big moment.
Maybe in the next 20 years lol. I just want the croc to come back with something fresh and light without the intention going beyond 100 chapters. For me its too weird that we don't hear any words from Gotouge after such...historic moments. I wish we could have an interview soon and give us more insight what will be its plans for the future. It might end up teaming up with another mangaka, who knows.
 

101nemesis

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Maybe in the next 20 years lol. I just want the croc to come back with something fresh and light without the intention going beyond 100 chapters. For me its too weird that we don't hear any words from Gotouge after such...historic moments. I wish we could have an interview soon and give us more insight what will be its plans for the future. It might end up teaming up with another mangaka, who knows.
I mean Gotouge could come back with a mini series like Kubo has. If they come back, it won't be for money.
 

BlueLagoon

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There are certain debates that resurrects dead people.

I think it's okay and it's legal that there are people who don't like Demon Slayer. Even that all his success seems exaggerated. But what no longer seems so good to me is that they deny facts.

These were some of the various things that were said about DS:
- That it was a manga that would never be able to surpass One Piece in 2019;
- It was only successful because of the Ufotable studio;
- That he was selling a lot because the Japanese work by hype;
- That in 2020 it would occupy the second place and that by the end of the same year it would disappear;
- Etc, etc, etc;

But after the anime was awarded the best awards in the anime industry, already considered one of the best anime ever, that his manga broke record after record every week, even achieving it after his manga ended, a certain fandom decided to invent the only "argument" they think they can use to discredit Demon Slayer. I say unique because they saw that everything they had said until then no longer worked because of all the successes that this work has been achieving. Now the only "argument" that remains is: "Demon Slayer has no impact internationally."

How is it not successful internationally? Are we, people of different cultures who surf the Internet, not talking day in and day out about Demon Slayer? Perhaps someone who is involved in this world of manga / anime and who is not Japanese can not know this work? Another thing is that they did not see it and they did not like it, but hearing about it, they surely did.

But those who believe that this argument is flimsy, I add the most important. There is the movie. Little by little it will be broadcast in different countries, and when we see the results of its box office outside of Japan and we see that it has managed to sell more than it did, for example, My Hero Academia: Heroes Rising, that manga / anime that is so much talked about of how international it is (and it is), what will your argument be? If that happens, what will you tell me? Yes, because it doesn't make sense that a manga that some say has no international impact could have a higher international box office than those that had movies like One Piece, Dragon Ball and My Hero Academia. It would be contradictory. And that box office will be responsible for speaking for those who we believe that it does have an international impact and at the same time making it unusable, once again. those arguments of a certain sector that insists on denying a reality. And the truth is that this happens because obviously the success of DS bothers, and a lot.

Finally, in Japan it is not that the Japanese like Demon Slayer or that they are just experiencing that effervescence of the hype that this work produces. No. Although some may not like it, Demon Slayer is already a cultural thing within their country. Anything that bears his name is guaranteed success. Not for nothing have we recently seen in the news that Demon Slayer has been one of those responsible for the increase in the Japanese economy or to see how the prime minister of his country bows in a political speech to one of the most famous phrases in the series.

You say it has no impact on the new manga. Curious. But I, who do not believe in coincidences, I find it quite striking that in a short period of time we would suddenly have manga like Bone Collection, Ayakashi Triangle, Phantom Seer, Our blood Oath whose theme is spirits and demons. Obviously it was not Demon Slayer who invented this theme, but I do believe that there is more than evident evidence that he modernized it again. Although those mangakas have to take into account something important: It is not enough just to have the same theme about demons that will ensure success. There is much more than that as mentioned by user RafGL in his last post.

Although sometimes it is forgotten. It has become something cultural in just 4 years. And culture does not disappear or is forgotten. Sayonara.
 

Tamil

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I dont think Gotouge should wait that long but the risk of creating another S8 is always there and I wont lie it is a bit worrisome. Plus advertising it as a series from the creator of KnY is a lot of pressure to handle for Gotouge (or any mangaka coming from a big hit) and fans will be overly critical over the next series if it doesn't live up to their expectations. You'll also have fans of Kimetsu not so much Gotouge so that's also another factor to consider.

A mini series much like Kubo's BTW may be a good idea. I'd want a SoL mini-series from Gotouge in like 3 years or so.
 
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perroloco

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@BlueLagoon

I was one of the people that said a lot of that kind of stuff about KnY, I do think 99% of it's success was a mix of Ufotable's excellent adaptation and word of mouth hype, i mean the first year it's not like KnY polled super good in WSJ, although it slowly became one of the top 5 manga of the magazine, but yeah it's first year-year and a half it's not like it blew manga charts, right? I don't think that's something that needs even be discussed, the anime happeneed it created hype and the rest is history, nothing wrong with that, that's what happens to most WSJ titles, except for titles like AssClass where it gets the majority of its readers without an anime adaptation.

But talking about its legacy, I imagine it will be similar to Yu Yu Hakusho's or Death Note's but in a bigger scale, especially in Japan.
It's a short manga/anime (I assume it will be a 100 episodes long anime by the time is done) so it will be easy to recommend for new people to get into anime, I know that even if I kind of despise it ngl I will probably recommend it for new readers/watchers because it's got everything to get people hooked and it's not super long, and then if they like it they can read/watch other stuff.

It has reached international success in certain parts of the world outside Japan, I think it was Taiwan where it also broke all movie records or something like that, maybe it broke "just" animated film records (Which still is insane and talks about the popularity of the series in Taiwan) BUT I also think it won't reach anywhere close the success worldwide of other JUMP properties like Dragon Ball, Captain Tsubasa or Yu-Gi-Oh! which is fine, it's not like it needs to, not every property needs to be a worldwide success especially when you captivated your home market.

So yeah, definetly it will be remembered some years down the line, but as with YYH maybe in 10,20 years people will not want to watch it because it will look "old" (My siblings don't want to watch YYH even though they loved HXH and they.. just dont' care for an "old" anime, their loss haha).
 

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It's only natural many would feel doubtful of the series's impact because it happened too fast with such a short series. It's a complete anomaly, something that no one could have ever predicted. Many (myself included) doubted Kimetsu no Yaiba would continue to blow up as much as it did and we've been proven wrong every time. But as has been proven countless times by countless events related to the series, Kimetsu no Yaiba's impact is huge and will most definitely be felt years from now.
Years from now, sure.

Decades from now... I wonder. It's really freaking hard to predict which manga/books/films/songs will become evergreens and which will be number one for a while and then fade away. That's part of what makes the current situation so interesting, we are literally watching history in the making.

In my opinion, it is a little strange to believe a manga won't have a big legacy just because you think this doesn't have iconic characteristics.

I mean, there are manga manga I find generic, but these have big legacy.
I agree. But a lot depends on your definition of legacy.

Take for example Black Jack, Kochikame and Saint Seiya. Which on has the biggest legacy?

- Black Jack had huge sales, but there's not much of a franchise around it (that I know of) and a lot of younger people have probably never heard of it.
- Kochikame is an absolute legend in Japan, but virtually unknown in the rest of the world, and the sales don't really do it justice.
- Saint Seiya has pitiful sales numbers in comparison, but it spawned a massive international media franchise which keeps making money and fans until this day.

Kimetsu will be big, that's for sure. But is it going to be the next Black Jack or the next Dragon Ball? That's the question.

Semi-relevant to Demon Slayer discussion, when do you think Gotoge will/should start another manga? This was their first serialisation so I'd hope they'll have a long career across across multiple titles, but does anyone think they might end on a high rather than be under immense pressure with their next series? I also wonder if they'd want to wait until the Demon Slayer phenomenon shows signs of dying down and gets fully adapted.

Personally I'd love if they came back soon and I'd imagine news of their return (especially if to Jump) would be a big moment.
I don't envy them. Every series they start now will be in a Samurai 8 position, with Shueisha trying to push it as the new Demon Slayer and the fans comparing them to death.

I'm actually not sure if waiting a bit would make this better or worse. Either people will get over their DS mania, or it will grow an even bigger cult status...
 
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