Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

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Shinuki no Reborn

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MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #51 - VOTING!​

The poll for issue #51 is now open, vote for your favorite chapters of the week clicking HERE!

Alongside the release of Sakamoto Days, the extra series this week are:

-Dragon Ball Super 66
-Boruto: Naruto Next Generations 52
-Ghost Reaper Girl 10


Good Votes!
 
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Halloween

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Moderator Notice:
Henceforth, I will be deleting posts that complain about Weekly Shonen Jump having too many/not enough gag/battle/exorcism/sports/etc series.

These posts are not insightful, and do not meaningfully contribute to this thread. Also, this decision is not up for discussion, so posts discussing this decision will also be deleted.~ Halloween
 
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Ryuusei

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呪 僕 O マ ブ S C D 破 C B 夜 C 僕 あ 灼 ぼ チ 高 ア 森 A 仄 ぼ 次号カラー ヒロアカ アンデラ 夜桜 約ネバ 道産子 GIGA 岸本先生が描くコラボポスター 爆豪クリアファイル
Jujutsu Kaisen (Cover & LCP)
My Hero Academia
One Piece
Mashle
Black Clover
Sakamoto Days (CP)
Dr. Stone
Magu-chan: God of Destruction (CP)
Build King
Mission: Yozakura Family
Me & Roboco
Ayakashi Triangle (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai
We Never Learn
Chainsaw Man
Koukousei Kazoku
Undead Unluck
Moriking
Agravity Boys
Honomieru Shounen
Bokura no Ketsumei

Issue #1
Cover & LCP: My Hero Academia
CP: Undead Unluck, Mission: Yozakura Family, The Promised Neverland, Dosanko Gyaru wa Namaramenkoi

GIGA Preview
Collab poster by Kishimoto
Bakugou clear file
 
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Newkerzy

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Name 3 things about Naruto that set it apart from a regular battle manga that hadn't been done before and that truly made it "unique."
Or as the other comment said, name 3 tropes that Naruto "refined" that made it stand out and made it unique

Series don't get popular because they are unique. They get popular because of the story that resonates and most importantly because those series were made in a way that it's readers/viewers could easily follow.
How is this hard to understand?

Bleach also influenced generations that came after it. Are we going to start calling Bleach unique as well?
Kimetsu is breaking records everywhere. 10-20 years down the line we are going to see new generations of mangaka and artists name it as an influence. Are we going to start calling it unique?
A few things:

1. Naruto started delving into more character-driven stories. It was also (arguably) the first series that started to move away from the “Goku prototype” by humanizing the MC. It did a pretty good job of delving into Naruto’s psyche, and rather than treat the MC as a plot device, it treated them as actual characters. This is best seen in the subsequent generations with the foremost examples being MHA and KnY.

2. Villains weren’t painted Black & White. They all had varying degrees of grey and in between. But one thing they all had in common was they all had a starting point that led them to the path they took. This is, again seen in future works such as MHA.

3. The emotional connection between characters were more fleshed out compared to past works. Be it the protagonists with the villains, or within their respective groups.

Overall, I’d say Naruto was unique for its time. But not as unique as some people might believe, as there may have been other works that Naruto was influenced by. For the record, I have never seen Saint Seiya once in my life although there may be those older than I am who would remember seeing it here. That, and I lived abroad as an infant up to 5 years of age in Thailand. Whatever the case being, I certainly do not remember anything about it.

Moving back to the topic, what Naruto had going for it was its worldwide reach. So all of the tropes, writing choices that went into Naruto would be recognized as something unique to itself only. Although there may have been other series that influenced Naruto, the series was able to use those to worldwide appeal. If you had someone claim Naruto was unique (for its time), then that wouldn’t be false either because it was the most recognized manga at the time.

Furthermore, Naruto wasn’t 100% “unique”. No story ever is. But what it did do is add a little something new to the blueprints of shonen manga that came before the series. It’s a continuous cycle that can even be seen in post-Naruto series. Even the next generation will be able to add something new to what the likes of MHA, Kimetsu, and JJK has laid out.
 

Griff

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It’s very possible that SxF isn’t already far off from its peak.
Sometime when a manga is already doing high numbers pre anime, the boost isn’t very big (Exp. AssClass)
Basically, SxF May have already gotten its “word of mouth boost” before its anime.

Not saying it won’t get a boost. Just saying, just because it’s doing big numbers now, and better numbers than your typical pre anime manga, doesn’t guaranteed that it’s gonna be doing One Piece and Demon Slayer numbers once the anime starts.
One Piece maybe, KNY definitely not. We will not see something like Kny in a hundred years ahaha
 

savethecat

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One Piece maybe, KNY definitely not. We will not see something like Kny in a hundred years ahaha
A hundred years? KnY success isn’t normal and incredible rare. But we usually get 1 or 2 series that has an unexplainable explosion every decade or so. So I’m sure we’ll see a couple manga get monster explosions in the 2020s
 

Griff

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A hundred years? KnY success isn’t normal and incredible rare. But we usually get 1 or 2 series that has an unexplainable explosion every decade or so. So I’m sure we’ll see a couple manga get monster explosions in the 2020s
Since when does mangas exist? Pretty sure no explosions were the likes of KNY's. It literally more than doubled One Piece's peak. I would not be surprise if we don't see it again in our lifetime.
 

Ebrietas-

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Since when does mangas exist? Pretty sure no explosions were the likes of KNY's. It literally more than doubled One Piece's peak. I would not be surprise if we don't see it again in our lifetime.
Not sure why you keep only using the yearly sales as a metric of success. KnY didn't more than double OP's peak.
 

savethecat

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Since when does mangas exist? Pretty sure no explosions were the likes of KNY's. It literally more than doubled One Piece's peak. I would not be surprise if we don't see it again in our lifetime.
This decade Attack on Titan and Kingdom
 

Griff

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This decade Attack on Titan and Kingdom
Not even close. AOT's peak was 14 000 000. Not sure if Kingdom ever had 10 000 000. KNY literally had more than 3.5 times both series' peak combined this year...

Edit: AOT's peak is 15.933.801 and Kingdom's peak is 8.569.215
 
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savethecat

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Not even close. AOT's peak was 14 000 000. Not sure if Kingdom ever had 10 000 000. KNY literally had more than 3.5 times both series' peak combined this year...
I didn’t get a chance to completely edit my message before you replied, but

I never said “at Demon Slayer’s level”. I’m aware that Attack on Titan and Kingdoms weren’t at Demon Slayer’s level of a boost.( I was also going to add, in the 2000s we had One Piece’s Strong World/Marineford Boost)

I said “we get a couple huge explosions every decade or so”.So it’s not far fetched to say we’ll get another series with a huge explosion like that.

Demon Slayers success is extremely rare, but it’s certainly not a “this only happens once’s a century” type phenomenon. Not even a “Once every quarter century” phenomenon.

In the last Quater century we had One Piece, Yu-Gi-Oh, Pokemon, Naruto, Bleach and Demon Slayer. Some franchise completely dominating the market isn’t THAT spread out across time.
 

Griff

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I didn’t get a chance to completely edit my message before you replied, but

I never said “at Demon Slayer’s level”. I’m aware that Attack on Titan and Kingdoms weren’t at Demon Slayer’s level of a boost.( I was also going to add, in the 2000s we had One Piece’s Strong World/Marineford Boost)

I said “we get a couple huge explosions every decade or so”.So it’s not far fetched to say we’ll get another series with a huge explosion like that.

Demon Slayers success is extremely rare, but it’s certainly not a “this only happens once’s a century” type phenomenon. Not even a “Once every quarter century” phenomenon.

In the last Quater century we had One Piece, Yu-Gi-Oh, Pokemon, and Demon Slayer. Some franchise completely dominating the market isn’t THAT spread out across time
As I said... "One Piece maybe, KNY definitely not. We will not see something like KNY in a hundred years ahaha"
 

Ebrietas-

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Not even close. AOT's peak was 14 000 000. Not sure if Kingdom ever had 10 000 000. KNY literally had more than 3.5 times both series' peak combined this year...
Yearly sales depend on various factors such as how many volumes a series has and how much it sold on the previous years. It's a very bad indicator of popularity. You can't say Kimetsu is 3.5 times more popular than AOT and Kingdom combined just because it sold that much in just a single year. If a manga released a single volume this year that sold 10 million copies it wouldn't be 8 times less popular than KnY that reached 80 million.
 

OniluapL

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Besides, we don't really have info of yearly sales pre-oricon. Who's to say previous hits didn't sell at a level similar to Kimetsu?
 

Griff

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Besides, we don't really have info of yearly sales pre-oricon. Who's to say previous hits didn't sell at a level similar to Kimetsu?
Which one you think could have? There's only 23 mangas who sold more than 78.900.000 in a lifetime... None of which could have done it in a single year (Like KNY)
 

101nemesis

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One Piece maybe, KNY definitely not. We will not see something like Kny in a hundred years ahaha
One Piece's record in 2011 also seemed darn right impossible to achieve but we just got a series that doubled that.
Every argument you make was made for One Piece's record as recent as last year, just before Kimetsu blew up.

Records are always broken. Maybe not next year or the next 10 years but they are almost always broken.

You'd be utterly naive to think otherwise.
 

Griff

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One Piece's record in 2011 also seemed darn right impossible to achieve but we just got a series that doubled that.
Every argument you make was made for One Piece's record as recent as last year, just before Kimetsu blew up.

Records are always broken. Maybe not next year or the next 10 years but they are almost always broken.

You'd be utterly naive to think otherwise.
There's levels to this. It took 9 years to break 37 000 000 sales. How many will it take to break 80 000 000? Especially knowing overall manga sales are going down every year because of piracy and scans on the internet.
 

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Which one you think could have? There's only 23 mangas who sold more than 78.900.000 in a lifetime... None of which could have done it in a single year (Like KNY)
It doesn't need to match or surpass Kimetsu's numbers for it to be similar, just to be close. I'm not saying what Kimetsu did isn't historic, and I agree Kimetsu had an unusual explosion (in part because the series wasn't that big beforehand, so all its sales came in a short amount of time) just saying oricon isn't the be all end all of it. There were series that were huge hits before and there will be afterwards.
 

101nemesis

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There's levels to this. It took 9 years to break 37 000 000 sales. How many will it take to break 80 000 000? Especially knowing overall manga sales are going down every year because of piracy and scans on the internet.
Overall manga sales are not going down because of piracy and scans on the internet. Lol wtf.
If anything, Shueisha has been much more on toes about taking down piracy sites and sources in past 3 years than ever before and offering alternatives in the form of M+.

The thing about the next big thing is that you wont know if it will be the next big thing until it is. Can you say that Jujutsu won't be the next big thing? Even when Kimetsu's boost started and it hit 900k in volume, no one predicted it would go on to sell 4 million per volume.
No one in their right mind would have predicted that a series that sold 150k per volume before its anime would have almost every volume surpass 4 million sales.

Can you say that SxF, which already sells a million per volume, won't triple its sales when the anime comes out? More likely scenario is that SxF won't because it probably already hit its peak but that's the point, you literally cannot call it.

My point is the same as I said last year before Kimetsu blew up. It's not impossible. If something accomplished it, others can with the right conditions and factors.
 

Griff

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Overall manga sales are not going down because of piracy and scans on the internet. Lol wtf.
If anything, Shueisha has been much more on toes about taking down piracy sites and sources in past 3 years than ever before and offering alternatives in the form of M+.

The thing about the next big thing is that you wont know if it will be the next big thing until it is. Can you say that Jujutsu won't be the next big thing? Even when Kimetsu's boost started and it hit 900k in volume, no one predicted it would go on to sell 4 million per volume.
No one in their right mind would have predicted that a series that sold 150k per volume before its anime would have almost every volume surpass 4 million sales.

Can you say that SxF, which already sells a million per volume, won't triple its sales when the anime comes out? More likely scenario is that SxF won't because it probably already hit its peak but that's the point, you literally cannot call it.

My point is the same as I said last year before Kimetsu blew up. It's not impossible. If something accomplished it, others can with the right conditions and factors.
Spy X Family definitely not, already too big for it to happen. Same with JJK
 
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