Games Mafia Game 86 - Magic: the Gathering - Planechase - END GAME

[Evil3ye]

by desin, panda and evil

Mechanic Design

Spoiler: Game Pitch

The idea was a mechanic that is part of the core Mafia Game and not just an optional addon that distracts from it. Therefore the mechanic was based on the amount of night actions happening per night, giving people agency as individuals as well as factions as a whole. For full transparency all possible effects would be visible to everyone from the start so there are no information imbalances. As for the effects of the mechanic we once again took a look at the core mechanics being night actions and voting.

Spoiler: Day/Night Effects

In regards to votes we chose "sticky votes" in the sense that every player has 2 locked votes to use. Thus giving every vote meaning and possibly undercutting any mafia last minute vote switcheroos. The intention was to give all three factions more options when it comes to voting ranging from voting your top two suspects as a town or using one vote on your mafia buddy to use later on as an alibi.

"Single vote" phase had a similar intention by putting more pressure on the day discussion and analysis beforehand to make a vote that counts while also leaving mafia less options for deniability for their votes.

"Double lynch" phase was supposed to be possible only very early in the game as it was only achievable with lot of active role uses. During the day town would be at a disadvantage due to it only being D2/D3 but still with a chance to get mafia. During the night in "double action" phase Mafia have a chance for two kills, however early on they would not have enough information to target valuable townies specifically. On the other hand townies had 2 nights for actions to gather information and get a surplus of info from very early on in the game thus speeding up the game. Investigative roles could possibly confirm their sanities and feed in lot of information for the following day discussion. Kill reducing roles had the same chance of stopping a kill just as in any normal night. This was supposed to help town get an information advantage early on by giving them the results of 3 nights by the beginning of D3/D4.

The chance of double kill is nevertheless alluring to mafia who would push for it but this would be balanced out by the automatic mechanic of the following night where the kill would have a 50% chance to fail. During the day the previous votes would be turned into penalty votes giving mafia a chance to manipulate the vote while also being at danger of paying for past suspicion.

Janitor kill was supposed to take information away from both parties opening the chance for mafia to claim a role that the investigator could find out thus catching mafia right there. The day lynch would be hidden as well thus as well only letting the investigator find out who it was while mafia does not know which role (if townie) was taken out and can’t plan around that.

As the game progresses the effects of the mechanic become less and less intrusive thus bringing endgame back to the basic game.

Assuming with almost certainty the game would start off accelerated early on with a double action night followed by a 50% failure chance to bring it back in pace, thus the assumption was D2 using mechanic 8-9 followed by mechanic 10+ which would then cut down actions to 3-6 and then staying in that realm until endgame and no mechanic interventions.

Role List/Faction Build

Spoiler: Game Mechanic Context

The main aspect of the game mechnic - number of the night roles used - was a key element in building the roles list. It was a balancing act of active and passive roles, as well as the timing of possible role uses. Majority of roles were added under the assumption they would start use at the beginning. As the game would progress further would be activated, to balance taken out roles. A number of maximum possible actions was defined and the rest would be filled out with passive roles. Naturally the Town as biggest faction would receive most of it and would have the biggest influence on the mechanic through cooperation. No day action except for one voting related roles were added to keep the focus on night actions.

Spoiler: Town build

The Intel Force
A third of the Town's setup would be the investigative roles, which could feed in new details from active player pool as well as beyond the grave. Due to the possible double night action scenario and resulting in possible information overflow the roles were added in a singlular amount. The Spy role with the potential to varify any night action, bundled with the by hosts confirmed amount of night actions, to make or break any claims made during the day phases. Spirit Medium, similar to the Spy would potentially make or break action claims. Insane Detective to potentially find Mafia/TP, although from 7 non-Townie roles only 4 were detectable, so the potential here was limited. Coupled with the Naive Traitor role this Detective would come "online" with the findings later than usual, as the sanities needed to be confirmed first. And upon death would also have the potential to seed dissesnt amoung the Mafia team to help unfail a TP member amongst them. Investigator was added for the possible Janitor'd night action scenario to unfail hidden roles.

The Protectors
An other third of the Town was designed to increase the durability and be able to reduce number of casualties in double action night scenario. Roles with this intend being used were Sane Doctor, Bodyguard, Prostitute and Jesus.

The Special Force
The two new role Necromancer and Banshee were added for observation as they both never had practical use before. Both seemed more on the situational end of usefulnes, but likewise had potential to be pivotal for a leap forward for their faction.

The Decoys
And lastly, two vanilla Townies were added to potentially attract Mafia's attention and tank a night hit instead of an other role for a possible Sleeper recruting in an early TP death scenario.

Spoiler: Mafia build

Mafia Setup
The Mafia was designed to have two actions per night, and therefore have the possibility in participating in the mechanics as well. For the second action besides the kill there were currently only two possible options available, which are Detective or Escort.

Settling on Mafia Escort as this role was more aligned with the mechanics in mind. Detective with a double action would scout the Town roles too quickly, giving full transparancy. The Apprentice as addition to sacrifice some flexibility in the beginning to be able to react flexibly on the situation at hand. The choices to go along were Strongman for a certain kill, a Bomb for an additional kill at lynch, and a Janitor for an information surplus. Poisoner to give flexibility in timing of kills. Mafia Boss in this setup was more a pro-Town faction choice to give Mafia the impression of higher Detectives presence.

Spoiler: Third Party build

Third Party Setup
With no killing ability, and with passive roles only, (with exception of Mafia member), Third Party was not given the possibility to participate in the mechanics. However, both non-Mafia members were given protection related roles to increase durability, one night protection in Threesome candidate as Bulletproof, one late game day protection role for the town Lover as Innocent Child with a D5 timed confirmation. This role with also start off with the Hot Potato with the same timing. The Mafia Noble role was assigned to the Lover to use it within the Mafia faction, as well as late game potential change to Third Party faction.

Gameplay Analysis

Spoiler: Night Actions

Spoiler: Mechanics Application

As the game kicked-off the analysis around the use of the mechanic started. Different strategies of using it to the best advantage were discussed and weighted off against each other. The dominanting strategy among the players with night roles and therefore influence on the mechanic agreed to be a conservative use of the night roles to not reach the treasholds of 7 to 9 role uses.

This resulted in only half of the night actions being used, successfully denying the "double action"/"janitored" day and night phases the following day and remained the in use throughout night 1 to night 3 as leading strategy from town's side as evident by (periodically) missing night actions from roles such as Doctor, Prostitute and Spirit Medium.

Only by night 4 confidence in night role use increased as the pool of players with night roles has declined enough to not reach the threasholds and stay in line with the initial strategy.

Spoiler: Faction Performance

Townie Faction
The lack of information from performed investigative night actions from the dominant mechanic strategy, and setup, led to analysis of players' behaviours, such as role claims. Those were weighted off against each other and analyzed against plausibility in setup. Behavioural patterns, such as voting as well as cooperativeness with the leading strategy became factors to decide the order of day lynches. More subtile patterns, such as timing of role hints, activity in total were picked up on as well, but were secondary as deemed to be non substantial enough. By end of D4 and four lynched townies in a row, the situation for town became unwinnable, however was not perceived as such, as the existence of third party was not discovered and thus disregarded, but giving a false sense of security through the bloated numbers. Inconsistancies in night role action claims against the confirmed night role action used by the mechanic came in as an additional analysis tool as well, however, already at a very late point in game, and too late to turn the tides.

Mafia Faction
Starting off very cautiously assessing the importance of the mechanic, almost no one participating actively in discussions throught the first day phase, or hinting the nature of a role, before going into first night discussions with the team to talk through and align a working strategy. Through following day phases the team succeeded in dodging day lynches in diverting the players to find someone more suspicious or inconsitant to lynch instead. The strategy to pass the Hot Potatoe secondary role to an investigative townie role and blocking it paid off greatly and was overlooked by the other players long enough to almost tie in numbers with remaining factions. The existance of third party, while couple of times mentioned in the internal brain stormings was not seriously enough considered to start looking into the potential candidates for it. The focus remained heavily on dismantling town, even at the point where it was not possible to lynch townies anymore. The end game strategy became working towards reaching a close enough number and win the game with the additional Noble vote, unaware of it belonging to third party as well.

Third Party Faction
With plenty players to go through Threesome candidate took six guesses to join the Lovers' party and their night discussions. The night protection role ensured survival of one mafia kill attempt, and the false claim by an other townie benefited and made him trusted enough to not be lynched. Mafia, while picking the apprenticed Strongman role chose a different target to use it on, making him literally dodge the bullet until making the mafia lover aware of his own existence shortly after. Similarly unaware of the identity of the candidate the lovers were trying to give hints about their own alignment, as discretely as possible to not expose themselves completely. Town lover although passing the potato stayed under the radar during day phases long enough to get day time benefits from the town role on D5. Mafia lover was from then on faced with a bigger challenge to keep the town counterpart alive, but, was trusted within the faction even while persuading to go for alternative options. During the day Mafia lover remained trusted by town also through incriminating mafia faction members, until only one was left and numbers allowed it to win with the votes.

Spoiler: New Roles Performance Review

Hot Potato played by @MarmaladeSky D1, @Holt D2, @sakura-aneki D3-D5 (killed D5)

The starting position of Hot Potato was given to a Town-aligned secondardy Third Party out of curiosity to see what they do with it. Through the exchange with the Mafia Lover it was quietly passed on to a Mafia player, to then decide within the team. Mafia team passed it on to role revealed Spy and going forward effectively blocked with the Mafia Escort the investigative role as well as the further passing in one action. Due to the novelty of this role and strategy and no indication of a Mafia Escort in the setup to that point Town did not identify this as highly benefitial Mafia strategy and held the passing Mafia Member accountable up until after the Hot Potato exploded.

In role design we categorized this role as a Priority 3 action to potentially block the movement. If this is going to remain a one-sided pro-Mafia strategy only, perhaps the categorization into Priority 3 need be reevalued again. I think this needs at least two or three games further test runs. In any case the movement of the Hot Potato is an important new information for the players to analyze.


Necromancer played by @Demonspeed (killed N4)

This role starts off basically very vanilla and with progressing game increasingly gains strength. All really depends not only on the Town setup, but also the order in which Townies died, thus bit on the harder side to plan around in game design as it could tilt the balance heavily pro-Town, or be completely useless. This situational usefulness of the role could lead to very unique outcomes and memorable moments, thus looking forward to see what our players will do with it in next games.


Banshee played by @SonOfDaws (lost D8)

Due to the longevity of the player this role could not show all aspects of its functunalities in this game, as the killing action was missing for a full review ( why didn't you die daws ;p). My impression was that similar to all other Townie killing roles it incentivises the player to analyze the player pool in selecting anti-Townie targets. We also drafted it as a Priority 3 action, both selecting and killing, which means it could be blocked. Player raised the question about feedback concerning his viable targets upon death, as he wouldnot know which actions have succeeded and which havenot. Perhaps this need further clarification.


Bulletproof Townie (Lover) by D6 previously (Threesome Candidate) played by @Gajeel (won D8)

Threesome Candidate as secondary role was the new addition in this game, and of course can be paired with a lot of roles on-going. This combination in particular is in the upper spectrum strength wise. Most combinations give this role a solid role claim thus increase the time the player can have to find the other members of the Third Party, thus victory becomes more achievable (as demonstrated in this game). No matter the primary role though, if one Lover dies in the first couple of phases this role has same slim chance as before to guess the remaining member.


Mafia Noble (Lover) played by @Lambu (won D8)

This role was added as a big nerf for the self-confirming Townie Noble. Perhaps also due to the fact that it was added just now the players would rather take it as self-confirming Mafia Noble, thus the Mafia team decided it is best to keep it as a last resort role in end game, when the numbers allow it to lynch a last Townie and win the game. I like to see some more bolder usage of the role in a few more test runs to see if it is versatile enough to allow different playstyles, or it will remain this last resort use. But either way I think it makes the previously drafted Mafia Robber obsolete and see its potential to move it to the chopping board and go on with Mafia Noble alone.

Spoiler: Conclusion/Learnings

The built game mechanic is right now the best tool to try out different cencepts in the meta and potentially explore new rules or addition of new roles. What we were most curious about was exploring different voting regulations, concept of collective vs individual choice to select varying night scenarios.

Voting concepts: From the three concepts it turned out to be the least impactful. This might or might not have been heavily influenced through the simultaneous introduction of new tie breaking rule, which turned out to shift the timing of the votes more towards the end. Implementation-wise, some inaccurate wordings led to different interpretations of intended concepts, that were unnoticed by us for some time, unfortunately resulting in some frustrations on the side. Generally the hope to observe some different strategies around the voting concepts werenot observable in the scope as hoped in development.

Collective and individual choice concept: Giving the individual players the option to participate in an overarching game mechanic strategy was the second incooperated concept. Players discussing it already on day one, strategizing around it and arguing for/against the respective positions was perceived by us as positively participative. In this format with night actions, not everyone was given the chance to actually influence it individually with their own actions. Changing that is something I might explore in a future game.

Varying night scenarios concept: Coupled with the previous concept of choices the varying night scenarios concept was a very risky endeavour, that was misjudged in game designing phase, thus in hindsight something I would not do again. The role list was build upon the possibilities of these varying night concepts actually occuring, some even in a particular order, which due to the free choices were not going as drafted at all. Lot of these concepts while being big part of the design were not used, thus best done in a set environment only.

​

 

[Copy Panda]

Does the shapeshifter get 2 kills per night like a mafia would if we enter the 8-9 state?

All players can use their action twice, so that counts towards stuff like SS, yes, but also SK, Santa, Mentor, etc. etc.

 

[Hardy]

They will also potentially block townie roles keeping counter lower.

Or not? How can we know? We gamble and lose?

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 20, 2020 ---

All players can use their action twice, so that counts towards stuff like SS, yes, but also SK, Santa, Mentor, etc. etc.

Uh alright read that wrong. Seems pretty clear, looking back.

Still better than four players immediately leaving the game but yeah rough.

 

[gnut]

Sub....
Got 5pgs to read but Im here

 

[Lambu]

First of all Im true to my word

Votekill Hardy for being picious coo

On the mechanic I agree with his point, most roles shouldn't use their actions to avoid stacking too much and end up in the +7 range but I also agree with Gaj that certain exceptions like Det or Spy should take action. They can prove people's claims later on in the game and they are worth the risk imo.

 

[Shad]

Assuming it good for town to reach +10 Actions.

If we have +12 active claims, if we exclude pirate/medium/mortician who can't/shouldn't use their action, we will have 10 claimed actions.

If we all agree to use our actions, we will force Mafia's hand, they can either use their actions, or try to aim for 7 actions, which is in my opinion a bad mafia play, day 1 there is no way to guess how many actions will happen, since they don't have detective results, so they will be forced to play optimally by using their actions as well and accept the +10 actions day phase.

The question now is +10 Actions phase is acceptable for us?

 

[GrySun]

I chose to edit out this information, since we have had a statement post before the game. All roles in the Mafia Game Rules thread are possibly used in this game, including new additions in the recent post.

I see some possibly ugly things from this, but will bring that up after the game.

 

[Hardy]

First of all Im true to my word

Votekill Hardy for being picious coo

On the mechanic I agree with his point, most roles shouldn't use their actions to avoid stacking too much and end up in the +7 range but I also agree with Gaj that certain exceptions like Det or Spy should take action. They can prove people's claims later on in the game and they are worth the risk imo.

We either use everything or nothing, half assing it will make it way easier for them to get the number they want. Dets could very well be useless and need a couple of nights, they don't have nearly the same value as a spy here.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 20, 2020 ---

No chance we get to ten on our own shad

 

[Lambu]

Im passive for a change btw, glad that Im not doc again.

Assuming it good for town to reach +10 Actions.

If we have +12 active claims, if we exclude pirate/medium/mortician who can't/shouldn't use their action, we will have 10 claimed actions.

If we all agree to use our actions, we will force Mafia's hand, they can either use their actions, or try to aim for 7 actions, which is in my opinion a bad mafia play, day 1 there is no way to guess how many actions will happen, since they don't have detective results, so they will be forced to play optimally by using their actions as well and accept the +10 actions day phase.

The question now is +10 Actions phase is acceptable for us?

+10 actions phase would mess mafia heavily yeah, but your plan implies mafia knowing who's active and who's not and thats not a good idea.

 

[Shad]

No chance we get to ten on our own shad

We only have 3 active claims until now, so that you may be right about that, let wait and see how many more active claim we have.

+10 actions phase would mess mafia heavily yeah, but your plan implies mafia knowing who's active and who's not and thats not a good idea.

Last game everybody claimed active, and if not for the detective role, mafia wouldn't know who to prioritize. I hope this game also has a lot of real townie actives, otherwise 7 actions would be more likely to happen.

~
Just one note, we shoudn't put too much emhasise on 7 actions, it a very specific number, it very unlikely it will happen randomly, especially not D1 when Mafia doesn't know townie roles.

 

[Lambu]

We either use everything or nothing, half assing it will make it way easier for them to get the number they want. Dets could very well be useless and need a couple of nights, they don't have nearly the same value as a spy here.

You are assuming Mafia has a lot of night actions at their disposal. Given this mechanic and the 20 player game I would vouch for a single mafia + TP. With those numbers I would not expect anything beyond 4 night actions or else the hosts completely played themselves.

We have had cases of dets investigating people that died the same night, confirming themselves in an instant. Taking the risk is perfectly fine in my eyes.

 

[Shad]

Should all townies claim active? that should make it impossible for mafia to do any meaningful math for at least 3 days.

It may increase the chances of miss lynches tho.

 

[gnut]

Wtf am I reading....math?


Read mechanic....not really sure then read peeps posts and like wtf????
Gonna be even more lost than usual this game....lol
I see "I agree with this and I agree with that".
Is this how base our trust by who makes the most sense...cause I hope not....none of it makes sense to me

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 20, 2020 ---

Stop liking my post @Shad
If you are scumbag....dont what that hanging over my head....hanging me I mean xD

 

[Hardy]

You are assuming Mafia has a lot of night actions at their disposal. Given this mechanic and the 20 player game I would vouch for a single mafia + TP. With those numbers I would not expect anything beyond 4 night actions or else the hosts completely played themselves.

We have had cases of dets investigating people that died the same night, confirming themselves in an instant. Taking the risk is perfectly fine in my eyes.

I don't think 3 or 4 is a LOT, it's very reasonable.

Confirming what? You can still be paranoid/naive.

 

[Shad]

Is this how base our trust by who makes the most sense...cause I hope not....none of it makes sense to me

I was planning to vote against DD because I felt like he was promoting a pro-mafia course of action, but I'm gonna give him a second chance xD

If you are scumbag....dont what that hanging over my head....hanging me I mean xD

He he you saw through my plan, but it is too late, I've already hearted your post

 

[gnut]

So nephew...
The first 3 nights we shouldn't act?

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 20, 2020 ---

Or did I read it wrong?

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 20, 2020 ---

I was planning to vote against DD because I felt like he was promoting a pro-mafia course of action, but I'm gonna give him a second chance xD



He he you saw through my plan, but it is too late, I've already hearted your post

You antihero

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 20, 2020 ---

I dont get it

Are those numbers signifying days....or all of it happens in a phase.
Nevet played no shit like this/that?

 

[Gajeel]

Are those numbers signifying days....or all of it happens in a phase.
Nevet played no shit like this/that?

The World in effect is determined by the number of individual successful night actions performed the previous night

 

[Hardy]

So nephew...
The first 3 nights we shouldn't act?

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 20, 2020 ---

Or did I read it wrong?

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 20, 2020 ---

You antihero

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 20, 2020 ---

I dont get it

Are those numbers signifying days....or all of it happens in a phase.
Nevet played no shit like this/that?

If at night a certain amount of actions are used, during the next day and night there will be consequences.

For 7-8-9 total night actions used in a single night, mafia gets greatly benefited, so I was suggesting not using anything at all so that we can for sure stay under 7, and play the game without relying on night actions at all.

 

[Holt]

Hmm..I see the sense in Hardy's point about not using actions, though honestly, feels like something that is more likely to happen by luck (assuming it does) than mafia intentionally forcing it by working the math right.

Also see Gaj's point but tbh, the plan of telling select roles only to use their actions imo, only increases the chances of mafia actually calculating right. Aren't you considering that @Gajeel ? To add, if town isn't using roles for starters, a few important mafia roles lose some relevance (escort, boss for example)

Side note, I'm curious about the Janitor deaths tho. Wonder if it's permanent at day besides perhaps an investigator finding out later. At night, the killer probably gets to know? It's a real pain so tbh, just makes me more pro-hardy on default

 

[Lambu]

Should all townies claim active? that should make it impossible for mafia to do any meaningful math for at least 3 days.

It may increase the chances of miss lynches tho.

Whats the point of claiming if everyone is going to lie about it

I don't think 3 or 4 is a LOT, it's very reasonable.

Confirming what? You can still be paranoid/naive.

Never said it was a LOT, but that I would find rare for scum to have more than 4 actions under this scenario or else the hosts broke their own game.

I want to believe troll dets are a rarity and not a norm, and in this game in which every action counts it should be rarer. But not going to delve too much into that possibility since its a pointless trail for now.

Docs on the other hand sound way more random for a N1 and should be used only to save someone trustworthy or confirmed, at least till some scum dies.

 

[Hardy]

I would honestly only think a Spy is worth using, as ANY result he would get would incriminate their target (as that person didn't follow the status quo, indicating they didn't want to cooperate with the plans of town) but the fact that I see the Hot Potato as a strong possibility on top of a disease makes me feel insecure.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 21, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 21, 2020 ---

Hmm..I see the sense in Hardy's point about not using actions, though honestly, feels like something that is more likely to happen by luck (assuming it does) than mafia intentionally forcing it by working the math right.

Also see Gaj's point but tbh, the plan of telling select roles only to use their actions imo, only increases the chances of mafia actually calculating right. Aren't you considering that @Gajeel ? To add, if town isn't using roles for starters, a few important mafia roles lose some relevance (escort, boss for example)

Side note, I'm curious about the Janitor deaths tho. Wonder if it's permanent at day besides perhaps an investigator finding out later. At night, the killer probably gets to know? It's a real pain so tbh, just makes me more pro-hardy on default

Landing on 7-8-9 if you have 4 roles on your own should be comfortably easy tbh.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 21, 2020 ---

Source: I like dices