Games Mafia Game 86 - Magic: the Gathering - Planechase - END GAME

[Evil3ye]

by desin, panda and evil

Mechanic Design

Spoiler: Game Pitch

The idea was a mechanic that is part of the core Mafia Game and not just an optional addon that distracts from it. Therefore the mechanic was based on the amount of night actions happening per night, giving people agency as individuals as well as factions as a whole. For full transparency all possible effects would be visible to everyone from the start so there are no information imbalances. As for the effects of the mechanic we once again took a look at the core mechanics being night actions and voting.

Spoiler: Day/Night Effects

In regards to votes we chose "sticky votes" in the sense that every player has 2 locked votes to use. Thus giving every vote meaning and possibly undercutting any mafia last minute vote switcheroos. The intention was to give all three factions more options when it comes to voting ranging from voting your top two suspects as a town or using one vote on your mafia buddy to use later on as an alibi.

"Single vote" phase had a similar intention by putting more pressure on the day discussion and analysis beforehand to make a vote that counts while also leaving mafia less options for deniability for their votes.

"Double lynch" phase was supposed to be possible only very early in the game as it was only achievable with lot of active role uses. During the day town would be at a disadvantage due to it only being D2/D3 but still with a chance to get mafia. During the night in "double action" phase Mafia have a chance for two kills, however early on they would not have enough information to target valuable townies specifically. On the other hand townies had 2 nights for actions to gather information and get a surplus of info from very early on in the game thus speeding up the game. Investigative roles could possibly confirm their sanities and feed in lot of information for the following day discussion. Kill reducing roles had the same chance of stopping a kill just as in any normal night. This was supposed to help town get an information advantage early on by giving them the results of 3 nights by the beginning of D3/D4.

The chance of double kill is nevertheless alluring to mafia who would push for it but this would be balanced out by the automatic mechanic of the following night where the kill would have a 50% chance to fail. During the day the previous votes would be turned into penalty votes giving mafia a chance to manipulate the vote while also being at danger of paying for past suspicion.

Janitor kill was supposed to take information away from both parties opening the chance for mafia to claim a role that the investigator could find out thus catching mafia right there. The day lynch would be hidden as well thus as well only letting the investigator find out who it was while mafia does not know which role (if townie) was taken out and can’t plan around that.

As the game progresses the effects of the mechanic become less and less intrusive thus bringing endgame back to the basic game.

Assuming with almost certainty the game would start off accelerated early on with a double action night followed by a 50% failure chance to bring it back in pace, thus the assumption was D2 using mechanic 8-9 followed by mechanic 10+ which would then cut down actions to 3-6 and then staying in that realm until endgame and no mechanic interventions.

Role List/Faction Build

Spoiler: Game Mechanic Context

The main aspect of the game mechnic - number of the night roles used - was a key element in building the roles list. It was a balancing act of active and passive roles, as well as the timing of possible role uses. Majority of roles were added under the assumption they would start use at the beginning. As the game would progress further would be activated, to balance taken out roles. A number of maximum possible actions was defined and the rest would be filled out with passive roles. Naturally the Town as biggest faction would receive most of it and would have the biggest influence on the mechanic through cooperation. No day action except for one voting related roles were added to keep the focus on night actions.

Spoiler: Town build

The Intel Force
A third of the Town's setup would be the investigative roles, which could feed in new details from active player pool as well as beyond the grave. Due to the possible double night action scenario and resulting in possible information overflow the roles were added in a singlular amount. The Spy role with the potential to varify any night action, bundled with the by hosts confirmed amount of night actions, to make or break any claims made during the day phases. Spirit Medium, similar to the Spy would potentially make or break action claims. Insane Detective to potentially find Mafia/TP, although from 7 non-Townie roles only 4 were detectable, so the potential here was limited. Coupled with the Naive Traitor role this Detective would come "online" with the findings later than usual, as the sanities needed to be confirmed first. And upon death would also have the potential to seed dissesnt amoung the Mafia team to help unfail a TP member amongst them. Investigator was added for the possible Janitor'd night action scenario to unfail hidden roles.

The Protectors
An other third of the Town was designed to increase the durability and be able to reduce number of casualties in double action night scenario. Roles with this intend being used were Sane Doctor, Bodyguard, Prostitute and Jesus.

The Special Force
The two new role Necromancer and Banshee were added for observation as they both never had practical use before. Both seemed more on the situational end of usefulnes, but likewise had potential to be pivotal for a leap forward for their faction.

The Decoys
And lastly, two vanilla Townies were added to potentially attract Mafia's attention and tank a night hit instead of an other role for a possible Sleeper recruting in an early TP death scenario.

Spoiler: Mafia build

Mafia Setup
The Mafia was designed to have two actions per night, and therefore have the possibility in participating in the mechanics as well. For the second action besides the kill there were currently only two possible options available, which are Detective or Escort.

Settling on Mafia Escort as this role was more aligned with the mechanics in mind. Detective with a double action would scout the Town roles too quickly, giving full transparancy. The Apprentice as addition to sacrifice some flexibility in the beginning to be able to react flexibly on the situation at hand. The choices to go along were Strongman for a certain kill, a Bomb for an additional kill at lynch, and a Janitor for an information surplus. Poisoner to give flexibility in timing of kills. Mafia Boss in this setup was more a pro-Town faction choice to give Mafia the impression of higher Detectives presence.

Spoiler: Third Party build

Third Party Setup
With no killing ability, and with passive roles only, (with exception of Mafia member), Third Party was not given the possibility to participate in the mechanics. However, both non-Mafia members were given protection related roles to increase durability, one night protection in Threesome candidate as Bulletproof, one late game day protection role for the town Lover as Innocent Child with a D5 timed confirmation. This role with also start off with the Hot Potato with the same timing. The Mafia Noble role was assigned to the Lover to use it within the Mafia faction, as well as late game potential change to Third Party faction.

Gameplay Analysis

Spoiler: Night Actions

Spoiler: Mechanics Application

As the game kicked-off the analysis around the use of the mechanic started. Different strategies of using it to the best advantage were discussed and weighted off against each other. The dominanting strategy among the players with night roles and therefore influence on the mechanic agreed to be a conservative use of the night roles to not reach the treasholds of 7 to 9 role uses.

This resulted in only half of the night actions being used, successfully denying the "double action"/"janitored" day and night phases the following day and remained the in use throughout night 1 to night 3 as leading strategy from town's side as evident by (periodically) missing night actions from roles such as Doctor, Prostitute and Spirit Medium.

Only by night 4 confidence in night role use increased as the pool of players with night roles has declined enough to not reach the threasholds and stay in line with the initial strategy.

Spoiler: Faction Performance

Townie Faction
The lack of information from performed investigative night actions from the dominant mechanic strategy, and setup, led to analysis of players' behaviours, such as role claims. Those were weighted off against each other and analyzed against plausibility in setup. Behavioural patterns, such as voting as well as cooperativeness with the leading strategy became factors to decide the order of day lynches. More subtile patterns, such as timing of role hints, activity in total were picked up on as well, but were secondary as deemed to be non substantial enough. By end of D4 and four lynched townies in a row, the situation for town became unwinnable, however was not perceived as such, as the existence of third party was not discovered and thus disregarded, but giving a false sense of security through the bloated numbers. Inconsistancies in night role action claims against the confirmed night role action used by the mechanic came in as an additional analysis tool as well, however, already at a very late point in game, and too late to turn the tides.

Mafia Faction
Starting off very cautiously assessing the importance of the mechanic, almost no one participating actively in discussions throught the first day phase, or hinting the nature of a role, before going into first night discussions with the team to talk through and align a working strategy. Through following day phases the team succeeded in dodging day lynches in diverting the players to find someone more suspicious or inconsitant to lynch instead. The strategy to pass the Hot Potatoe secondary role to an investigative townie role and blocking it paid off greatly and was overlooked by the other players long enough to almost tie in numbers with remaining factions. The existance of third party, while couple of times mentioned in the internal brain stormings was not seriously enough considered to start looking into the potential candidates for it. The focus remained heavily on dismantling town, even at the point where it was not possible to lynch townies anymore. The end game strategy became working towards reaching a close enough number and win the game with the additional Noble vote, unaware of it belonging to third party as well.

Third Party Faction
With plenty players to go through Threesome candidate took six guesses to join the Lovers' party and their night discussions. The night protection role ensured survival of one mafia kill attempt, and the false claim by an other townie benefited and made him trusted enough to not be lynched. Mafia, while picking the apprenticed Strongman role chose a different target to use it on, making him literally dodge the bullet until making the mafia lover aware of his own existence shortly after. Similarly unaware of the identity of the candidate the lovers were trying to give hints about their own alignment, as discretely as possible to not expose themselves completely. Town lover although passing the potato stayed under the radar during day phases long enough to get day time benefits from the town role on D5. Mafia lover was from then on faced with a bigger challenge to keep the town counterpart alive, but, was trusted within the faction even while persuading to go for alternative options. During the day Mafia lover remained trusted by town also through incriminating mafia faction members, until only one was left and numbers allowed it to win with the votes.

Spoiler: New Roles Performance Review

Hot Potato played by @MarmaladeSky D1, @Holt D2, @sakura-aneki D3-D5 (killed D5)

The starting position of Hot Potato was given to a Town-aligned secondardy Third Party out of curiosity to see what they do with it. Through the exchange with the Mafia Lover it was quietly passed on to a Mafia player, to then decide within the team. Mafia team passed it on to role revealed Spy and going forward effectively blocked with the Mafia Escort the investigative role as well as the further passing in one action. Due to the novelty of this role and strategy and no indication of a Mafia Escort in the setup to that point Town did not identify this as highly benefitial Mafia strategy and held the passing Mafia Member accountable up until after the Hot Potato exploded.

In role design we categorized this role as a Priority 3 action to potentially block the movement. If this is going to remain a one-sided pro-Mafia strategy only, perhaps the categorization into Priority 3 need be reevalued again. I think this needs at least two or three games further test runs. In any case the movement of the Hot Potato is an important new information for the players to analyze.


Necromancer played by @Demonspeed (killed N4)

This role starts off basically very vanilla and with progressing game increasingly gains strength. All really depends not only on the Town setup, but also the order in which Townies died, thus bit on the harder side to plan around in game design as it could tilt the balance heavily pro-Town, or be completely useless. This situational usefulness of the role could lead to very unique outcomes and memorable moments, thus looking forward to see what our players will do with it in next games.


Banshee played by @SonOfDaws (lost D8)

Due to the longevity of the player this role could not show all aspects of its functunalities in this game, as the killing action was missing for a full review ( why didn't you die daws ;p). My impression was that similar to all other Townie killing roles it incentivises the player to analyze the player pool in selecting anti-Townie targets. We also drafted it as a Priority 3 action, both selecting and killing, which means it could be blocked. Player raised the question about feedback concerning his viable targets upon death, as he wouldnot know which actions have succeeded and which havenot. Perhaps this need further clarification.


Bulletproof Townie (Lover) by D6 previously (Threesome Candidate) played by @Gajeel (won D8)

Threesome Candidate as secondary role was the new addition in this game, and of course can be paired with a lot of roles on-going. This combination in particular is in the upper spectrum strength wise. Most combinations give this role a solid role claim thus increase the time the player can have to find the other members of the Third Party, thus victory becomes more achievable (as demonstrated in this game). No matter the primary role though, if one Lover dies in the first couple of phases this role has same slim chance as before to guess the remaining member.


Mafia Noble (Lover) played by @Lambu (won D8)

This role was added as a big nerf for the self-confirming Townie Noble. Perhaps also due to the fact that it was added just now the players would rather take it as self-confirming Mafia Noble, thus the Mafia team decided it is best to keep it as a last resort role in end game, when the numbers allow it to lynch a last Townie and win the game. I like to see some more bolder usage of the role in a few more test runs to see if it is versatile enough to allow different playstyles, or it will remain this last resort use. But either way I think it makes the previously drafted Mafia Robber obsolete and see its potential to move it to the chopping board and go on with Mafia Noble alone.

Spoiler: Conclusion/Learnings

The built game mechanic is right now the best tool to try out different cencepts in the meta and potentially explore new rules or addition of new roles. What we were most curious about was exploring different voting regulations, concept of collective vs individual choice to select varying night scenarios.

Voting concepts: From the three concepts it turned out to be the least impactful. This might or might not have been heavily influenced through the simultaneous introduction of new tie breaking rule, which turned out to shift the timing of the votes more towards the end. Implementation-wise, some inaccurate wordings led to different interpretations of intended concepts, that were unnoticed by us for some time, unfortunately resulting in some frustrations on the side. Generally the hope to observe some different strategies around the voting concepts werenot observable in the scope as hoped in development.

Collective and individual choice concept: Giving the individual players the option to participate in an overarching game mechanic strategy was the second incooperated concept. Players discussing it already on day one, strategizing around it and arguing for/against the respective positions was perceived by us as positively participative. In this format with night actions, not everyone was given the chance to actually influence it individually with their own actions. Changing that is something I might explore in a future game.

Varying night scenarios concept: Coupled with the previous concept of choices the varying night scenarios concept was a very risky endeavour, that was misjudged in game designing phase, thus in hindsight something I would not do again. The role list was build upon the possibilities of these varying night concepts actually occuring, some even in a particular order, which due to the free choices were not going as drafted at all. Lot of these concepts while being big part of the design were not used, thus best done in a set environment only.

​

 

[Baka Taichou]

so in case I die tonight, there are my personal notes (no hard feelings for who's on the list)

DD
Last min vote on me thinking i'd take the lead in lynching. Trolling a lot, calling ppl out randomly (DemonSpeed and Gry focus). Claimed Vanilla D1, right off the bat, mentioned he's death miller which he can't possibly know. Seems to be calling out to be recruited. If there's no death in this game, he got recruited.

Shad
On me constantly, trying hard to get me lynched (or to reveal my role again). Didn't bother to contest my vote too much or prove his innocence.

Demonspeed
Voted for lawl last second. Asking Gry about roles in the game how big the chances are for doubles probably to prepare his alibi when roles will be openly claimed later on. He said in case of possible insane doc since i asked for protection and that might kill me.

Gry
Thinks I'm still fishy but concludes both me and Shad are probably townies. Might Gry be mafia and protecting Shad through this comment?
"There was absolutely no reason to vote lawl, he was very much town. Sakura still throws me off with her randomness, but her Shad interaction just looked like 2 townies annoying each other. Could be wrong but not sure how to deal with her."

LAMBU
Gave a list of 5 ppl who he trusts (there are 5 mafias) one of them is me in that list (rest are: gry moegara shad orgz), left 12 who he doesn't trust out of which said some are gray DD Marm and demon. I find it sus how he pointed out exactly 5 out of which I am one of the trusted ones, not taking me into consideration would make him the fifth in the list, are they the mafias? or did he include other towns in that 5 list to appear more trustworthy?

As for my final vote, I will go for

!VOTEKILL DEMONSPEED

 

[GrySun]

Idk about the usage of actions but I really believe some important roles should use it regardless of the phase. With next night‘s effect Prostitute and Escort get kinda bad, same with Docs, so those should maybe be skipped unless we want to gamble.

This was my last saying about it, what part do you disagree with or find dangerous?

 

[Nie Li]

Seems like I'm late to the party today. RIP Hardy.

 

[Demonspeed]

so in case I die tonight, there are my personal notes (no hard feelings for who's on the list)

DD
Last min vote on me thinking i'd take the lead in lynching. Trolling a lot, calling ppl out randomly (DemonSpeed and Gry focus). Claimed Vanilla D1, right off the bat, mentioned he's death miller which he can't possibly know. Seems to be calling out to be recruited. If there's no death in this game, he got recruited.

Shad
On me constantly, trying hard to get me lynched (or to reveal my role again). Didn't bother to contest my vote too much or prove his innocence.

Demonspeed
Voted for lawl last second. Asking Gry about roles in the game how big the chances are for doubles probably to prepare his alibi when roles will be openly claimed later on. He said in case of possible insane doc since i asked for protection and that might kill me.

Gry
Thinks I'm still fishy but concludes both me and Shad are probably townies. Might Gry be mafia and protecting Shad through this comment?
"There was absolutely no reason to vote lawl, he was very much town. Sakura still throws me off with her randomness, but her Shad interaction just looked like 2 townies annoying each other. Could be wrong but not sure how to deal with her."

LAMBU
Gave a list of 5 ppl who he trusts (there are 5 mafias) one of them is me in that list (rest are: gry moegara shad orgz), left 12 who he doesn't trust out of which said some are gray DD Marm and demon. I find it sus how he pointed out exactly 5 out of which I am one of the trusted ones, not taking me into consideration would make him the fifth in the list, are they the mafias? or did he include other towns in that 5 list to appear more trustworthy?

As for my final vote, I will go for

!VOTEKILL DEMONSPEED

LOL I said that I am not Doc.

 

[GrySun]

LOL I said that I am not Doc.

You should probably not protect anyone next night, unless you have a good hunch who they could go for.

 

[Nie Li]

That‘s pretty dangerous game you‘re playing, vanilla ice man.

This could be such a shameless mafia information grab lol

Yesterday I said I‘d use my role if I saw a good opportunity. Now whether I saw a good opportunity or not I won‘t be telling just yet.
And overall I told you I don‘t think this is a good idea, but it looks like most of our good roles lied and said they didn‘t use and that‘s good.

Weren't you the one yesterday asking everyone why don't we all mass reveal our roles? What happened to that? Has someone suggested you last night that was too obvious?

I don't know how you or anyone else usually acts in this game and I don't want to waste votes on this World, but you're acting weird. Why the change of heart between "it's how we won most games, let's do it" to "this could be such a shameless mafia information grab"?

And now for the necessary pun.

Sorry I didn't make it back yesterday in time. Was celebrating and all. Townie Lawl has pretty good instincts, I'll be looking through his posts to see what he though.
Also, I should add that someone gave me the hot potato

The Holt Potato.

 

[Baka Taichou]

LOL I said that I am not Doc.

I noted that, just it was either you or dd on my top list and your last min swap influenced my choice more. Though DD last min voted me.... was a hard choice, and I apologize if I.m wrong about you....

 

[digitaldude]

I didnt say I was death miller, I just thought I was because I was one before... I was like here we go again.

 

[Gajeel]

This was my last saying about it, what part do you disagree with or find dangerous?

''but I really believe some important roles should use it regardless of the phase. ''

Until we get rid of Hot Potato, TP(?), or the Mafia Detective, I don't think we should be using more than the spy and maybe another important role, it's just not worth the risk in my opinion.

Although I have a question for the hosts. @Evil3ye does the mafia get to know the janitorized roles?

If they don't get to know the roles, then maybe allowing more than one/two important roles to be used would be possible.

 

[GrySun]

Weren't you the one yesterday asking everyone why don't we all mass reveal our roles? What happened to that? Has someone suggested you last night that was too obvious?

I don't know how you or anyone else usually acts in this game and I don't want to waste votes on this World, but you're acting weird. Why the change of heart between "it's how we won most games, let's do it" to "this could be such a shameless mafia information grab"?

That was Day 1. Now is Day 2. Mass reveals when mafia haven‘t had a night to talk to each other and preplan their claims is different from mass reveals Day 2 where the effectiveness drops.
Kinda ironic you overlook this difference after insinuating I was prepared better for next phase at night, ayyy.

 

[Lambu]

After researching xnut I can't say I find anything good nor bad about him, he's in the same bunch as Sam, Erin and gnut, playing way too safe and quiet.

LAMBU
Gave a list of 5 ppl who he trusts (there are 5 mafias) one of them is me in that list (rest are: gry moegara shad orgz), left 12 who he doesn't trust out of which said some are gray DD Marm and demon. I find it sus how he pointed out exactly 5 out of which I am one of the trusted ones, not taking me into consideration would make him the fifth in the list, are they the mafias? or did he include other towns in that 5 list to appear more trustworthy?

I dont know if I should feel insulted or flattered about this statement like, you are saying "if birb is retarded he's scum"

 

[GrySun]

''but I really believe some important roles should use it regardless of the phase. ''

Until we get rid of Hot Potato, TP(?), or the Mafia Detective, I don't think we should be using more than the spy and maybe another important role, it's just not worth the risk in my opinion.

Although I have a question for the hosts. @Evil3ye does the mafia get to know the janitorized roles?

If they don't get to know the roles, then maybe allowing more than one/two important roles to be used would be possible.

Detective > Spy imo. Hell even Apprentice using 2 times to confirm himself and another townie is worth it more than Spy on consistency alone. But we‘re 2 different camps on this I guess, and we may not have some good roles even.

 

[digitaldude]

I sleep.

 

[Baka Taichou]

After researching xnut I can't say I find anything good nor bad about him, he's in the same bunch as Sam, Erin and gnut, playing way too safe and quiet.



I dont know if I should feel insulted or flattered about this statement like, you are saying "if birb is retarded he's scum"

Definitely not an insult. Just a thought.
You guys are sart.
This game is hard.
I played my part.
So off to sleep.

 

[Nie Li]

That was Day 1. Now is Day 2. Mass reveals when mafia haven‘t had a night to talk to each other and preplan their claims is different from mass reveals Day 2 where the effectiveness drops.
Kinda ironic you overlook this difference after insinuating I was prepared better for next phase at night, ayyy.

I'm just saying you're being weird as I see it. I may just be looking too far or too wrong into it, but that's just what I think.

Trying to mass reveal was only one of the two things you did yesterday. You also wanted to instigate for all townie active roles to vote so we could "count them", which would serve the mafia better (they'd figure an accurate number before we do) and it's an information we wouldn't get until after the night phase was over, so when "mafias have prepared better", as you say.

Today you have a reason why you suddenly are entirely against mass reveals, that's good, though the first thing you did was asking for all active townies to identify themselves, not too different from what you tried to achieve yesterday but a little bit more cloaked by saying that revealing the actual roles is no good.

You may be a townie and for all I know your strategies may be better than my logic, so don't take it personal if you are, but since nobody's acting too suspicious I have to let out my thoughts on these things that caught my eye. There's nothing too incriminating about anyone, some are lying down and sakura-aneki caught nothing, so there's not much to go on for this day.

 

[GrySun]

I'm just saying you're being weird as I see it. I may just be looking too far or too wrong into it, but that's just what I think.

Trying to mass reveal was only one of the two things you did yesterday. You also wanted to instigate for all townie active roles to vote so we could "count them", which would serve the mafia better (they'd figure an accurate number before we do) and it's an information we wouldn't get until after the night phase was over, so when "mafias have prepared better", as you say.

Today you have a reason why you suddenly are entirely against mass reveals, that's good, though the first thing you did was asking for all active townies to identify themselves, not too different from what you tried to achieve yesterday but a little bit more cloaked by saying that revealing the actual roles is no good.

You may be a townie and for all I know your strategies may be better than my logic, so don't take it personal if you are, but since nobody's acting too suspicious I have to let out my thoughts on these things that caught my eye. There's nothing too incriminating about anyone, some are lying down and sakura-aneki caught nothing, so there's not much to go on for this day.

I suggest you get your story straight first, I see lots of gaps there. Me „wanting active roles to vote“ never happened, and other things you mention are also slightly misrepresented.

I fact check this post as „mostly false and misleading“.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 22, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 22, 2020 ---

I appreciate you playing, and dw I don‘t take these things personal. Though I find your focus on me kinda interesting. Any thoughts on other players?

 

[Evil3ye]

World Effect
7~7 Night Actions
Day Time ~ All deaths are Janitor'd
Night Time ~ All deaths are Janitor'd

Refers to a synchronic effect. Unless the Night Time death is performed by the Janitor role, in which following is true.

Spoiler

Mafia Janitor (Mafia): If the Janitor kills a player he cleans up the body after the kill. When the Day phase starts only he is PMed his victim's role while everyone else doesn't get to know his victim's role. When he dies the roles of all his victims are revealed to everyone. (GAME 23)

(This is an explanation post, because it's been asked)
​

 

[Marmalade]

I’m headed to bed for now, will be getting up early to be there for the last hours of this phase

 

[Nie Li]

I suggest you get your story straight first, I see lots of gaps there. Me „wanting active roles to vote“ never happened, and other things you mention are also slightly misrepresented.

I fact check this post as „mostly false and misleading“.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 22, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 22, 2020 ---

I appreciate you playing, and dw I don‘t take these things personal. Though I find your focus on me kinda interesting. Any thoughts on other players?

And I of course disagree with that fact check.

I used the wrong verb there, blame it on my English. I didn't mean to say "active roles to vote" but "active roles to use their actions". That's what you encouraged.

This is what you said yesterday:

Still think it‘s perhaps best everyone who isn‘t a 1-time use role uses it the first night so we as town learn the number of everyone with actions(who is town) as it could easily break the game and make it easy to win for us.

What I just quoted is what made me start focusing on you, since what you suggested wouldn't let us townies know the number of everyone with actions "who is town", but it would instead give that exact information to the mafia on D2 and it would have been used in their advantage before it was used by us.

If I remember correctly you also suggested that "if every townie uses their roles + the mafia's roles then we will likely be +10 so it's safe", but obviously, had everyone agreed to that, mafia's would have to simply not use anything but the kill action to reduce the number of night actions from +10 to possibly "7-8-9", so I see your strategy as a bit pro-mafia unless, of course, I've missed something. If I have, which is possible for a newcomer like me who isn't used to this game, do tell me, I'm open to learning.


About my thoughts on other players, I found the last minute vote change of digitaldude interesting. I don't remember who he voted for but he changed the votes for a moment before Demonseed voted for Goodboy. I prefer not adding anything on sakura-aneki and Shad. Nothing much to go by, so I'll just post again if I remember something substancial.

 

[Gajeel]

Hm, so 7-8 doesn't sound as bad as I thought then, but it's still something to be wary of.