Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

Status
Not open for further replies.

Shinuki no Reborn

Mangahelper
伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member
Mangahelper
Joined
Jul 6, 2011
Messages
15,391
Reaction score
39,052
Age
34
Gender
Male
Country
Brazil
MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #51 - VOTING!​

The poll for issue #51 is now open, vote for your favorite chapters of the week clicking HERE!

Alongside the release of Sakamoto Days, the extra series this week are:

-Dragon Ball Super 66
-Boruto: Naruto Next Generations 52
-Ghost Reaper Girl 10


Good Votes!
 
Last edited:

Halloween

Formerly Buranchi
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
2,545
Reaction score
6,845
Age
40
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Moderator Notice:
Henceforth, I will be deleting posts that complain about Weekly Shonen Jump having too many/not enough gag/battle/exorcism/sports/etc series.

These posts are not insightful, and do not meaningfully contribute to this thread. Also, this decision is not up for discussion, so posts discussing this decision will also be deleted.~ Halloween
 
Last edited:

Ryuusei

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2019
Messages
1,859
Reaction score
12,832
Gender
Male
Country
Brazil
呪 僕 O マ ブ S C D 破 C B 夜 C 僕 あ 灼 ぼ チ 高 ア 森 A 仄 ぼ 次号カラー ヒロアカ アンデラ 夜桜 約ネバ 道産子 GIGA 岸本先生が描くコラボポスター 爆豪クリアファイル
Jujutsu Kaisen (Cover & LCP)
My Hero Academia
One Piece
Mashle
Black Clover
Sakamoto Days (CP)
Dr. Stone
Magu-chan: God of Destruction (CP)
Build King
Mission: Yozakura Family
Me & Roboco
Ayakashi Triangle (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai
We Never Learn
Chainsaw Man
Koukousei Kazoku
Undead Unluck
Moriking
Agravity Boys
Honomieru Shounen
Bokura no Ketsumei

Issue #1
Cover & LCP: My Hero Academia
CP: Undead Unluck, Mission: Yozakura Family, The Promised Neverland, Dosanko Gyaru wa Namaramenkoi

GIGA Preview
Collab poster by Kishimoto
Bakugou clear file
 
Last edited:

Newkerzy

Registered User
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
7,556
Reaction score
5,409
Age
35
Gender
Male
Country
Indonesia
I mean this isn't a brand new practice for major companies. Trying to keep records in place to be able to boast about it.
It makes financial sense in a way because One Piece is still running. I get it. I get why they want to retain these records.

But still shitty, nonetheless.
Y’know..... I would actually be quite happy if Gotouge just gives Shueisha/Jump the middle finger for this when they ask them to come back for another series and instead go somewhere else. It’d be a risky gamble, but Gotouge’s got really nothing to lose with the fortunes made off from KnY alone.
 

Aipom626

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2017
Messages
2,267
Reaction score
1,829
Country
United States
Shoseki 11/23

#35 Haikyu
#56 Dr. Stone
#61 Chainsaw Man
#267 Yozakura
Yozakura's living baby! I'm guessing this increase in sales has to be due significantly to the high quality of the most recent arc. I was hoping it could've boosted it to around Undead levels, but I'm glad that it's still shown some level of growth
 

Minsel

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2019
Messages
1,267
Reaction score
3,118
Age
24
Country
United States
Yozakura's living baby! I'm guessing this increase in sales has to be due significantly to the high quality of the most recent arc. I was hoping it could've boosted it to around Undead levels, but I'm glad that it's still shown some level of growth
I'm just hoping we can stay for a 4th week and see how long we can stay in, 30k club almost
 

perroloco

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
1,056
Reaction score
915
Age
37
Gender
Male
Country
Mexico
Kimetsu no yaiba has 120mln copies in circulation. Volume 23 first print of 3.95mln (lol).

Long post arguing why Shueisha did not really "defend" One Piece's record as much as they tried to minimize risks:

Do we have data on the physical circulation as of now? Because with that we could determine more or less how many volumes it has sold digitally, I had guessed previously that it might be 20% digital and would like to be sure, so do we have physical data of circulation (Not sales)?

Ehem... I'm kinda having weird November '19 deja vu vibes lol

So first of all I'll fully admit that I'm happy KnY didn't break One Piece's record, I like One Piece.


About the article.. The wording in the article kinda is confusing, maybe it means 3.95 mill of the normal edition only?

My take on this, and I won't even start arguing about this since I won't change anyone's people's opinions anyway.

This post, especially point number 4 is a mixture of data with my deductions, and you guys know how much I love deducting stuff lol.

Also, some of you have told me about Occam's razor and stuff like that, and I love it that when One Piece doesn't lose a record (Because obviously, after the post of KnY's last volume being 3.95mill 1st run the very first post had to be a KnY vs OP comparison) the same people that told me about Occam razor (as in not looking for difficult explanations) now are claiming KnY got robbed of a record.

Anyway here are a couple of points that debate that point of view:

1.- Japanese companies tend to be conservative, just look at Nintendo and how they practically have under-printed their hot products year after year when they weren't so sure about demand like Amiibos, NES-Minis, SNES-Minis, Ring Fit Adventure, and now the new Mario Kart toy thingy..

2.- Also perhaps (And this is just a theory of mine) Covid contributed to the printers not being able to fulfill a bigger order?

3.- Kimetsu no Yaiba seems to also have a lot of digital sales (I think around 20%, my estimate).

4.- Finally, what's important for first runs is the velocity of sales:

For first print runs what matters really is how much it sells in the first week/two since they probably already schedule a second print.

Comparing One Piece 61 and Kimetsu's volume 21 basically sold the same in the period of 3 days (In fact One Piece beat it by a bit, but in week 4 KnY reached and beat OP's vol 65 sales.)

In reality, it was until volume 22 that KnY was able to finally beat One Piece's peak 3 day performer (Volume 61).
OP vol 61: 2'086,080
KnY vol 22: 2'204,279

Sure, after the first week KnY vol. 22 gained momentum and in their fourth week the difference between the performance was bigger, One Piece with 2'810,000 and KnY with 3'500,000 (I included special edition numbers that weren't reported week 3 and 4 btw, without the extra numbers I added it would be 3'400,000ish), still a big difference.

And yet this is not a complete sell-thru of its 3.7 mill first print.. (I'm not claiming One Piece did either, of course, it didn't sell its first run in a month, in fact it did worse since its first run of volume 61 was 3.8 mill).

This is the same company that printed 3 One Piece volumes in the 4 million 1st print... And then gave 4.05 mill to volume 67...

I'm gonna repeat that again so you might understand the reasoning behind this post, Shueisha basically tested One Piece for 3 whole volumes with a 4million print run and then bumped the print run by 50k... Kimetu's volume 22 was 3.7million and in a single volume they boosted it to 3.95mill

Kimetsu finally managed to beat One Piece's peak month-pacing just in the last volume (And its first weeks were pretty much even, it was during week 2 and onward that the difference became apparent, this happened after October 25th which was Kimetsu v22's 4th week).

Think about it for a while, they had that information until October 25th, the information of KnY finally beating One Piece's monthly pace by a considerable margin, KnY volume 23 is scheduled to be released on December 4th as in nationwide stores will get it by that date (probably around a week before), so let's say right now more or less right now the volume should be hitting the press and being distributed nationwide.. (We will probably get leaks of the supposed epilogue later this week, I guess.. Well you guys will get the leaks since I don't read KnY), but at least in the case of WSJ it's printed 15 days before distribution (This is the info I took from the book I previously mentioned, "The right way to make Jump"). So the printing time for this book at the very least was 15 days before being distributed, that's the very least, but I'd guess it was probably more.. So.. Idk..

Am I saying Shueisha couldn't have just given it a print run that surpassed One Piece? No, absolutely not, they very much could have. But it would have been uncharacteristic of them seeing how they also did the same to One Piece back in 2012 giving it 3 straight 1st print runs of 4mill, until giving it 4.05 mill in volume 67.

Is it so farfetched to believe that Shueisha had to make a decision before they had all the relevant information? Isn't this year the year of a global pandemic that has pretty much affected every industry worldwide? What decision would you have taken?
BTW This book has some great insights on how Jump is made, and even talks about how much time passes from when a volume is printed.

They are being conservative, and I don't blame them, can you tell me what they would win for having leftover stock? It's not like it's not gonna sell anyways, they sell this the first month, they sell out (or get close to selling) its second run and by then they will more or less get a feeling of how much they should reprint for the 3rd run (Unless maybe a third run was already scheduled, which I don't doubt at all).

It seems to me like their strategy with One Piece and Kimetsu is completely different, in One Piece's case they went for the long way in Kimetsu's they prefer to sell stock fast, and really.. I don't blame them, google "tulipmania", fads come as fast as they go, and ok I won't call Kimetsu no Yaiba a fad because even though it kinda is, it has clearly maintained its momentum, and obviously, volume 23 is gonna sell a whooooooooooooole ton of volumes.. Maybe 3 million in 3 days?

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Tl,Dr: It was Shueisha's call, and I don't think they were alright protecting One Piece's record more than they were minimizing risks..
Only the latest volume of KnY, volume 22, really beat One Piece's monthly sales and they probably had to make a print run decision before they had this data, and they had a conservative approach (Which is nothing new for Japanese companies, Shueisha included, as they "tested" One Piece's 4million print run 3 times until they decided to give it a 4.05mill for volume 67 only to return to 6mill in volume 68. They had 7 whole months to decide whether or not to increase OP's run, in this case (KnY) they only really had the sales info from volumes 19,20,21 and all that info still indicated that KnY was "a little bit under" OP's peak sales) .
 
Last edited:

Kattoki

Registered User
初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
Joined
Jun 24, 2020
Messages
25
Reaction score
93
Age
30
Country
Argentina
No Oricon yet ?
 

Aiga

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2018
Messages
105
Reaction score
267
Age
28
Country
Egypt
I get what you are saying but they have a reprint for Kny 23 just a week after release which if they moved it and included it in the first print it would have probably beat OP record, and while yes it won't sell 3.95 in its first week, the stock will surely runs out in major stores, you can't actaully pre-order the volume is several online stores like amazon since their allocated stock ran out.
 

perroloco

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
1,056
Reaction score
915
Age
37
Gender
Male
Country
Mexico
I get what you are saying but they have a reprint for Kny 23 just a week after release which if they moved it and included it in the first print it would have probably beat OP record, and while yes it won't sell 3.95 in its first week, the stock will surely runs out in major stores, you can't actaully pre-order the volume is several online stores like amazon since their allocated stock ran out.
Yes but that's exactly my point, it very likely would have beaten One Piece's first run (Although I don't know if that One Piece volume also had a second printing too in a week or two, although I highly, highly doubt it).

Think of it this way. If they had printed KnY volume 23 with more copies they probably could have had some in their warehouses for some time, perhaps a week or even less, but still it would be space that's being occupied.

That's why I said that I think their model for KnY is "selling copies fast", if they print 3.95 mill they pretty much are guaranteed to sell them by the first month-month and a half (If the pacing of sales continue as they have), with a first printing and a second printing they can just receive the second printing (or alright just distribute them) week 2 and don't have to keep them in the warehouse.

Edit: Also do you have the date for the 2nd print run?
 

yadayada

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Messages
1,142
Reaction score
3,518
Age
35
Country
Fire Nation
Do we have data on the physical circulation as of now? Because with that we could determine more or less how many volumes it has sold digitally, I had guessed previously that it might be 20% digital and would like to be sure, so do we have physical data of circulation (Not sales)?

Ehem... I'm kinda having weird November '19 deja vu vibes lol

So first of all I'll fully admit that I'm happy KnY didn't break One Piece's record, I like One Piece.


About the article.. The wording in the article kinda is confusing, maybe it means 3.95 mill of the normal edition only?

My take on this, and I won't even start arguing about this since I won't change anyone's people's opinions anyway.

This post, especially point number 4 is a mixture of data with my deductions, and you guys know how much I love deducting stuff lol.

Also, some of you have told me about Occam's razor and stuff like that, and I love it that when One Piece doesn't lose a record (Because obviously, after the post of KnY's last volume being 3.95mill 1st run the very first post had to be a KnY vs OP comparison) the same people that told me about Occam razor (as in not looking for difficult explanations) now are claiming KnY got robbed of a record.

Anyway here are a couple of points that debate that point of view:

1.- Japanese companies tend to be conservative, just look at Nintendo and how they practically have under-printed their hot products year after year when they weren't so sure about demand like Amiibos, NES-Minis, SNES-Minis, Ring Fit Adventure, and now the new Mario Kart toy thingy..

2.- Also perhaps (And this is just a theory of mine) Covid contributed to the printers not being able to fulfill a bigger order?

3.- Kimetsu no Yaiba seems to also have a lot of digital sales (I think around 20%, my estimate).

4.- Finally, what's important for first runs is the velocity of sales:

For first print runs what matters really is how much it sells in the first week/two since they probably already schedule a second print.

Comparing One Piece 61 and Kimetsu's volume 21 basically sold the same in the period of 3 days (In fact One Piece beat it by a bit, but in week 4 KnY reached and beat OP's vol 65 sales.)

In reality, it was until volume 22 that KnY was able to finally beat One Piece's peak 3 day performer (Volume 61).
OP vol 61: 2'086,080
KnY vol 22: 2'204,279

Sure, after the first week KnY vol. 22 gained momentum and in their fourth week the difference between the performance was bigger, One Piece with 2'810,000 and KnY with 3'500,000 (I included special edition numbers that weren't reported week 3 and 4 btw, without the extra numbers I added it would be 3'400,000ish), still a big difference.

And yet this is not a complete sell-thru of its 3.7 mill first print.. (I'm not claiming One Piece did either, of course, it didn't sell its first run in a month, in fact it did worse since its first run of volume 61 was 3.8 mill).

This is the same company that printed 3 One Piece volumes in the 4 million 1st print... And then gave 4.05 mill to volume 67...

I'm gonna repeat that again so you might understand the reasoning behind this post, Shueisha basically tested One Piece for 3 whole volumes with a 4million print run and then bumped the print run by 50k... Kimetu's volume 22 was 3.7million and in a single volume they boosted it to 3.95mill

Kimetsu finally managed to beat One Piece's peak month-pacing just in the last volume (And its first weeks were pretty much even, it was during week 2 and onward that the difference became apparent, this happened after October 25th which was Kimetsu v22's 4th week).

Think about it for a while, they had that information until October 25th, the information of KnY finally beating One Piece's monthly pace by a considerable margin, KnY volume 23 is scheduled to be released on December 4th as in nationwide stores will get it by that date (probably around a week before), so let's say right now more or less right now the volume should be hitting the press and being distributed nationwide.. (We will probably get leaks of the supposed epilogue later this week, I guess.. Well you guys will get the leaks since I don't read KnY), but at least in the case of WSJ it's printed 15 days before distribution (This is the info I took from the book I previously mentioned, "The right way to make Jump"). So the printing time for this book at the very least was 15 days before being distributed, that's the very least, but I'd guess it was probably more.. So.. Idk..

Am I saying Shueisha couldn't have just given it a print run that surpassed One Piece? No, absolutely not, they very much could have. But it would have been uncharacteristic of them seeing how they also did the same to One Piece back in 2012 giving it 3 straight 1st print runs of 4mill, until giving it 4.05 mill in volume 67.

Is it so farfetched to believe that Shueisha had to make a decision before they had all the relevant information? Isn't this year the year of a global pandemic that has pretty much affected every industry worldwide? What decision would you have taken?
BTW This book has some great insights on how Jump is made, and even talks about how much time passes from when a volume is printed.

They are being conservative, and I don't blame them, can you tell me what they would win for having leftover stock? It's not like it's not gonna sell anyways, they sell this the first month, they sell out (or get close to selling) its second run and by then they will more or less get a feeling of how much they should reprint for the 3rd run (Unless maybe a third run was already scheduled, which I don't doubt at all).

It seems to me like their strategy with One Piece and Kimetsu is completely different, in One Piece's case they went for the long way in Kimetsu's they prefer to sell stock fast, and really.. I don't blame them, google "tulipmania", fads come as fast as they go, and ok I won't call Kimetsu no Yaiba a fad because even though it kinda is, it has clearly maintained its momentum, and obviously, volume 23 is gonna sell a whooooooooooooole ton of volumes.. Maybe 3 million in 3 days?

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Tl,Dr: It was Shueisha's call, and I don't think they were alright protecting One Piece's record more than they were minimizing risks..
Only the latest volume of KnY, volume 22, really beat One Piece's monthly sales and they probably had to make a print run decision before they had this data, and they had a conservative approach (Which is nothing new for Japanese companies, Shueisha included, as they "tested" One Piece's 4million print run 3 times until they decided to give it a 4.05mill for volume 67 only to return to 6mill in volume 68. They had 7 whole months to decide whether or not to increase OP's run, in this case (KnY) they only really had the sales info from volumes 19,20,21 and all that info still indicated that KnY was "a little bit under" OP's peak sales) .
I'm gonna be short since I'm kinda tired rn

First of all KnY 21 had already beaten OP's monthly peak (3,035,269 for KnY 21 vs 2,901,059 for OP 66, +134k for KnY 21), this was back in july which already makes most of your arguments crumble.

Second, KnY 22 already needed an emergency reprint shortly upon release due to not meeting demand. This shows an obvious necessity to significantly increase first print.

Third, KnY 23 was scheduled for a reprint right after release way before the volume actually released. They knew demand was insufficient, and printing 2% more would've hardly been an issue. So this isn't being conservative, they'll meet demand given they already scheduled a reprint to do just that well before release, they just won't add that to the first print number.

And lastly, all of KnY's volumes are well over 4mln physical already except for 22, which is also about to cross it after just 2 months on the market. KnY 18 in just a year has sold 4.3mln copies, and KnY 1 is over 4.5mln. So claiming that they are being conservative for fear of dead stock with that first print is silly.
 
Last edited:

perroloco

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
1,056
Reaction score
915
Age
37
Gender
Male
Country
Mexico
I'm gonna be short since I'm kinda tired rn

First of all KnY 21 had already beaten OP's monthly peak (3,035,269 for KnY 21 vs 2,901,059 for OP 66, +134k for KnY 21), this was back in july which already makes most of your arguments crumble.

Second, KnY 22 already needed an emergency reprint shortly upon release due to not meeting demand. This shows an obvious necessity to significantly increase first print.

Third, KnY 23 was scheduled for a reprint right after release way before the volume actually released. They knew demand was insufficient, and printing 2% more would've hardly been an issue. So this isn't being conservative, they'll meet demand, they just won't add that to the first print number.

And lastly, all of KnY's volumes are well over 4mln already except for 22, which is also about to cross it after just 2 months on the market. KnY 18 in just a year has sold 4.3mln copies, and KnY 1 is over 4.5mln. So claiming that they are being conservative for fear of dead stuck with that first print is silly.
I never said vol 21 monthly, I said 3 day peak, and in fact pointed out that by week 4 One Piece had been beaten by it, but before that One Piece was on the lead, so it sold "faster" weeks 1-3, winning the "sprint", but weeks 4 and onwards got beaten by KnY, and thus losing the "race".

Third, KnY 23 was scheduled for a reprint right after release way before the volume actually released. They knew demand was insufficient, and printing 2% more would've hardly been an issue. So this isn't being conservative, they'll meet demand, they just won't add that to the first print number.

I get your point, but it's not like that, it's always about maximizing profits while not using warehouse too much.
That "2%" difference between KnY and OP (which is more like "3%" but whatever) is 100k copies, that's like a full run of almost any manga Shueisha publishes!
So if Shueisha somehow made a deal with the printer where they told them "Ey you know what with covid and everything it's kinda been rough, but tell you what we will give you the same price if you don't load all the volumes in the first batch" or some kind of deal like that.. Can you tell me how or why would Shueisha not take a deal like that? How would it be beneficial to have "extra" volumes that may or may not be sold during the first month? (Which you yourself said in your next point, when you point out that vol. 22 hadn't reached the 4mill mark 2 months after release.)

And lastly, all of KnY's volumes are well over 4mln already except for 22, which is also about to cross it after just 2 months on the market. KnY 18 in just a year has sold 4.3mln copies, and KnY 1 is over 4.5mln. So claiming that they are being conservative for fear of dead stuck with that first print is silly.

It's not silly, demand is there but it's also about how fast it sells, you said it yourself 2 months after it was released volume 22 hasn't reached 4mill.
I know that OP for example managed to sell around 3.3mill last time Oricon numbers were released (out of 3.8mill). But again in One Piece's cases they probably were thinking of the long run, clearly with Kimetsu they are going for a "Reprint, sell fast, reprint, sell fast.." strategy.

It's all about maximizing profits, and as the saying goes "Sometimes less is more". Two very different approaches, One Piece's printing going for the long run very clearly and Kimetsu going for the selling-the manga while it's hot approach.

Again, I'm not gonna argue that Shueisha couldn't have just given KnY a record breaking number, they had the ball in their side of the court and they played the way that seemed better for them in the short term, I think.

Also long term this is a better decision, they really lost nothing as Kimetsu is gonna sell like hotcakes regardless, and, as people pointed out ,One piece still has some years left, so obviously you want to promote it for the next years.

And now I'm really going to bed, as I don't really want to talk more about this haha, I already feel like if this forum had a dislike button this would have been my most disliked post lol.
 
Last edited:

MangAniMY

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Messages
1,955
Reaction score
4,863
Country
Malaysia
I never said vol 21 monthly, I said 3 day peak, and in fact pointed out that by week 4 One Piece had been beaten by it, but before that One Piece was on the lead, so it sold "faster" weeks 1-3, winning the "sprint", but weeks 4 and onwards got beaten by KnY, and thus losing the "race".
It's all about maximizing profits, and as the saying goes "Sometimes less is more". Two very different approaches, One Piece's printing going for the long run very clearly and Kimetsu going for the selling-the manga while it's hot approach.
having both of these statement in the same post should not happen..

are the mutually exclusive? kinda if you really try to. but eh


by you own point, shueisha should have reversed the strategy for these 2

anyway...

carry on
 
Last edited:

yadayada

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Messages
1,142
Reaction score
3,518
Age
35
Country
Fire Nation
I never said vol 21 monthly, I said 3 day peak, which is what first print runs are for.
Uhh, first print runs are not meant to only last 3 days (you wouldn't even be able to do a reprint and get it out to bookstores within that timeframe). And I was trying to keep it simple by saying first month, but let's go more in depth visually (thanks mangani for the charts).



And in particular

So while OP 61 outpaced KnY 21 on their 3 days first weeks, KnY 21 had already overtaken it on week 2, well before that 4 weeks period. It was only ahead in that 3 days timeframe, weeks 2 and 3 it was already behind (hell, its 4 weeks total can't even match KnY 21's 3 weeks total).

I get your point, but it's not like that, it's always about maximizing profits while not using warehouse too much.
That "2%" difference between KnY and OP (which is more like "3%" but whatever) is 100k copies, that's like a full run of almost any manga Shueisha publishes!
According to shueisha itself, it takes them an hour to print 10k copies. This means the 100k difference could have been "fixed" in just 10 hours of printing.
Source:

So if Shueisha somehow made a deal with the printer where they told them "Ey you know what with covid and everything it's kinda been rough, but tell you what we will give you the same price if you don't load all the volumes in the first batch" or some kind of deal like that.. Can you tell me how or why would Shueisha not take a deal like that? How would it be beneficial to have "extra" volumes that may or may not be sold during the first month? (Which you yourself said in your next point, when you point out that vol. 22 hadn't reached the 4mill mark 2 months after release.)
This point doesn't make any sense because this year has actually been really big and vastly improved compared to 2019 for bookstores according to AJPEA, and yes KnY has been a huge part of why. So while this could make some sense if it was a different industry or a different country, it doesn't here.

It's not silly, demand is there but it's also about how fast it sells, you said it yourself 2 months after it was released volume 22 hasn't reached 4mill.
I know that OP for example managed to sell around 3.3mill last time Oricon numbers were released (out of 3.8mill). But again in One Piece's cases they probably were thinking of the long run, clearly with Kimetsu they are going for a "Reprint, sell fast, reprint, sell fast.." strategy.

It's all about maximizing profits, and as the saying goes "Sometimes less is more". Two very different approaches, One Piece's printing going for the long run very clearly and Kimetsu going for the selling-the manga while it's hot approach.
Again, this makes no sense and contradicts your own point. You said so yourself: KnY won't sell that much on just the first week. Yet the second week is already going to have reprints rolling out before the volume has a chance to sell out. So they're not aiming to let the volume sell out , and the reprint is so close to the first one and so obviously needed that they easily could've made the choice to just do it in a single print. Also, either it's better to not use warehouses (like you're claiming they want to do with KnY) or it's better to use them (like they are doing with every OP volume), this part is just another contraction.

At the end of the day it bodes down to whether they wanted it to have the record or not and the answer was no, there really isn't anything else to be said here, all your points can be quickly dismissed because there is no logical reason KnY 23 shouldn't have a print higher than what it got other than that.
 
Last edited:

Ryuusei

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2019
Messages
1,859
Reaction score
12,832
Gender
Male
Country
Brazil
Shoseki Daily Ranking - 11/24

#50 Haikyuu!! 45
#71 Chainsaw Man 9
#76 Dr. Stone 18
#452 Mission: Yozakura Family 5
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Sales by Series - 11/16~11/22

#1 Kimetsu no Yaiba - 2,260,511
#2 Jujutsu Kaisen - 485,770
#4 Haikyuu!! - 161,012
#7 The Promised Neverland - 114,710
 

RafGL

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2019
Messages
1,007
Reaction score
5,867
Age
25
Gender
Male
Country
Spain
Kimetsu no yaiba has 120mln copies in circulation. Volume 23 first print of 3.95mln (lol).

I don't think I'll ever see such a idiotic first print ever that already has a reprint scheduled on December 10th. Literally absurd.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

NeeNeen

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
1,053
Reaction score
1,213
Country
United Nations
It's especially silly because they could just have given it a print of 4mln and nobody would've batted an eye. It would still have been lower than OP's record, but it would've been a nice round number that felt logical.

By making it a silly number like 3.95mln, they are drawing attention to the fact that they are messing with the numbers on purpose, which is just... why?
 

Rouk'

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2019
Messages
144
Reaction score
664
Age
27
Country
France
This is all my opinion/just a guess but...

Shueisha has no reason to protect OP's first print record. This all sounds like conspiracy theories. OP doesn't benefit at all from this 10 year-old record. It's not used in any ads, so nobody but hardcore manga enthusiasts knows about it. No one is buying the new OP volume because 10 years ago the series had first prints of over 4m.

The only logical conclusion I can see is that this is not about OP at all. It's just about Kimetsu. I think they consider that saying "The huge first print has already sold out in just a few days! Urgent reprints scheduled under a week after its release!" is a better marketing move than saying "Kimetsu has broken a new record, highest first print ever!" (which is arguably not even true because of vol. 0.). The latter is a one-time thing, the former can be said again and again as the new reprints are sold-out.

In fact they could have given Kimetsu a 4.5m first print (or more) if they had used the same logic they used for One Piece, but it would have taken the volume longer to be sold-out, which means the reprints would have been announced/scheduled later. This would have led vol. 23 to be less often in the news during its release month.
If Shueisha's goal is to make Japan think and talk about Kimetsu every single second that passes, this is the best strategy. It's just too bad for us over here who just want to see records being smashed.

A smaller first-print also increases the FOMO, which is especially relevant to the limited edition.



Also, it would be nice to not use ableists terms...
 

Midak

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2020
Messages
202
Reaction score
253
Age
33
Country
Italy
I have a question for you guys.

Let's say that in a few months Gotouge says "ok, I feel like drawing a short story on KnY, but it will be only as long as BTW".

If you had to take the decision as a Shueisha manager, would you publish it again in Jump or would you try to take advantage of its popularity to help another magazine under your control?
 

AbrahamOmosun

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Messages
400
Reaction score
1,024
Gender
Male
Country
Nigeria
I have a question for you guys.

Let's say that in a few months Gotouge says "ok, I feel like drawing a short story on KnY, but it will be only as long as BTW".

If you had to take the decision as a Shueisha manager, would you publish it again in Jump or would you try to take advantage of its popularity to help another magazine under your control?
I don't think there is a "Sheishua manager" that handles serialisation. Authors meet with an editor when they want to publish something or an editor goes to them. Since your example is under the first instance, Gotouge will most likely go to their editor during Kimetsu and if they are still in wsj's editorial, that is where it will most likely be serialized.
 

Midak

Registered User
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2020
Messages
202
Reaction score
253
Age
33
Country
Italy
I don't think there is a "Sheishua manager" that handles serialisation. Authors meet with an editor when they want to publish something or an editor goes to them. Since your example is under the first instance, Gotouge will most likely go to their editor during Kimetsu and if they are still in wsj's editorial, that is where it will most likely be serialized.
Yeah, you are right, I know that the process is more complex than what I made it out to be, but we have seen multiple examples in the past of series changing magazine, even in the middle of their serialization, so there has to be someone who takes the decision.

Probably it comes down to a discussion between the editors in-chief of the two magazines that are involved, but in this case, given how popular KnY is, there might be interest from the general managers themselves.
 

redon

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
1,757
Reaction score
17,709
Age
39
Gender
Male
Country
Marine Headquarters
It's funny read some complaints to Shueisha now.

However, when Shueisha has been playing the game of "uninterrupted out of stock" during all this year with KnY, some people was quiet.

Shueisha is a really big company that only wants make money. They same way they could easiy print a bigger 1st edition for KnY Volume 23, they could do a massive KnY reprint in the past to stop the "uninterrupted out of stock" but they didn't.
 

101nemesis

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Aug 16, 2012
Messages
3,086
Reaction score
7,183
Age
35
Gender
Male
Country
India
Yeah, you are right, I know that the process is more complex than what I made it out to be, but we have seen multiple examples in the past of series changing magazine, even in the middle of their serialization, so there has to be someone who takes the decision.

Probably it comes down to a discussion between the editors in-chief of the two magazines that are involved, but in this case, given how popular KnY is, there might be interest from the general managers themselves.
Series changing magazine often have got to do with declining popularity of a decently popular series.

That's why people often state here that "if X is not selling well enough, maybe they'll move it to XYZ magazine"

So as to not use up magazine space, still be able to sell that series and still have space for a new series in the magazine.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

It's funny read some complaints to Shueisha now.

However, when Shueisha has been playing the game of "uninterrupted out of stock" during all this year with KnY, some people was quiet.

Shueisha is a really big company that only wants make money. They same way they could easiy print a bigger 1st edition for KnY Volume 23, they could do a massive KnY reprint in the past to stop the "uninterrupted out of stock" but they didn't.
Im pretty sure we've been calling out the first print numbers for like a 3 months now. This isn't the first time this conversation took place here. In between, the conversation died out because Kimetsu volumes released with Limited Editions.

But this was the last opportunity for Kimetsu to break that first print record. Which is why the conversation is more active.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top