Games Mafia Game 86 - Magic: the Gathering - Planechase - END GAME

[Evil3ye]

by desin, panda and evil

Mechanic Design

Spoiler: Game Pitch

The idea was a mechanic that is part of the core Mafia Game and not just an optional addon that distracts from it. Therefore the mechanic was based on the amount of night actions happening per night, giving people agency as individuals as well as factions as a whole. For full transparency all possible effects would be visible to everyone from the start so there are no information imbalances. As for the effects of the mechanic we once again took a look at the core mechanics being night actions and voting.

Spoiler: Day/Night Effects

In regards to votes we chose "sticky votes" in the sense that every player has 2 locked votes to use. Thus giving every vote meaning and possibly undercutting any mafia last minute vote switcheroos. The intention was to give all three factions more options when it comes to voting ranging from voting your top two suspects as a town or using one vote on your mafia buddy to use later on as an alibi.

"Single vote" phase had a similar intention by putting more pressure on the day discussion and analysis beforehand to make a vote that counts while also leaving mafia less options for deniability for their votes.

"Double lynch" phase was supposed to be possible only very early in the game as it was only achievable with lot of active role uses. During the day town would be at a disadvantage due to it only being D2/D3 but still with a chance to get mafia. During the night in "double action" phase Mafia have a chance for two kills, however early on they would not have enough information to target valuable townies specifically. On the other hand townies had 2 nights for actions to gather information and get a surplus of info from very early on in the game thus speeding up the game. Investigative roles could possibly confirm their sanities and feed in lot of information for the following day discussion. Kill reducing roles had the same chance of stopping a kill just as in any normal night. This was supposed to help town get an information advantage early on by giving them the results of 3 nights by the beginning of D3/D4.

The chance of double kill is nevertheless alluring to mafia who would push for it but this would be balanced out by the automatic mechanic of the following night where the kill would have a 50% chance to fail. During the day the previous votes would be turned into penalty votes giving mafia a chance to manipulate the vote while also being at danger of paying for past suspicion.

Janitor kill was supposed to take information away from both parties opening the chance for mafia to claim a role that the investigator could find out thus catching mafia right there. The day lynch would be hidden as well thus as well only letting the investigator find out who it was while mafia does not know which role (if townie) was taken out and can’t plan around that.

As the game progresses the effects of the mechanic become less and less intrusive thus bringing endgame back to the basic game.

Assuming with almost certainty the game would start off accelerated early on with a double action night followed by a 50% failure chance to bring it back in pace, thus the assumption was D2 using mechanic 8-9 followed by mechanic 10+ which would then cut down actions to 3-6 and then staying in that realm until endgame and no mechanic interventions.

Role List/Faction Build

Spoiler: Game Mechanic Context

The main aspect of the game mechnic - number of the night roles used - was a key element in building the roles list. It was a balancing act of active and passive roles, as well as the timing of possible role uses. Majority of roles were added under the assumption they would start use at the beginning. As the game would progress further would be activated, to balance taken out roles. A number of maximum possible actions was defined and the rest would be filled out with passive roles. Naturally the Town as biggest faction would receive most of it and would have the biggest influence on the mechanic through cooperation. No day action except for one voting related roles were added to keep the focus on night actions.

Spoiler: Town build

The Intel Force
A third of the Town's setup would be the investigative roles, which could feed in new details from active player pool as well as beyond the grave. Due to the possible double night action scenario and resulting in possible information overflow the roles were added in a singlular amount. The Spy role with the potential to varify any night action, bundled with the by hosts confirmed amount of night actions, to make or break any claims made during the day phases. Spirit Medium, similar to the Spy would potentially make or break action claims. Insane Detective to potentially find Mafia/TP, although from 7 non-Townie roles only 4 were detectable, so the potential here was limited. Coupled with the Naive Traitor role this Detective would come "online" with the findings later than usual, as the sanities needed to be confirmed first. And upon death would also have the potential to seed dissesnt amoung the Mafia team to help unfail a TP member amongst them. Investigator was added for the possible Janitor'd night action scenario to unfail hidden roles.

The Protectors
An other third of the Town was designed to increase the durability and be able to reduce number of casualties in double action night scenario. Roles with this intend being used were Sane Doctor, Bodyguard, Prostitute and Jesus.

The Special Force
The two new role Necromancer and Banshee were added for observation as they both never had practical use before. Both seemed more on the situational end of usefulnes, but likewise had potential to be pivotal for a leap forward for their faction.

The Decoys
And lastly, two vanilla Townies were added to potentially attract Mafia's attention and tank a night hit instead of an other role for a possible Sleeper recruting in an early TP death scenario.

Spoiler: Mafia build

Mafia Setup
The Mafia was designed to have two actions per night, and therefore have the possibility in participating in the mechanics as well. For the second action besides the kill there were currently only two possible options available, which are Detective or Escort.

Settling on Mafia Escort as this role was more aligned with the mechanics in mind. Detective with a double action would scout the Town roles too quickly, giving full transparancy. The Apprentice as addition to sacrifice some flexibility in the beginning to be able to react flexibly on the situation at hand. The choices to go along were Strongman for a certain kill, a Bomb for an additional kill at lynch, and a Janitor for an information surplus. Poisoner to give flexibility in timing of kills. Mafia Boss in this setup was more a pro-Town faction choice to give Mafia the impression of higher Detectives presence.

Spoiler: Third Party build

Third Party Setup
With no killing ability, and with passive roles only, (with exception of Mafia member), Third Party was not given the possibility to participate in the mechanics. However, both non-Mafia members were given protection related roles to increase durability, one night protection in Threesome candidate as Bulletproof, one late game day protection role for the town Lover as Innocent Child with a D5 timed confirmation. This role with also start off with the Hot Potato with the same timing. The Mafia Noble role was assigned to the Lover to use it within the Mafia faction, as well as late game potential change to Third Party faction.

Gameplay Analysis

Spoiler: Night Actions

Spoiler: Mechanics Application

As the game kicked-off the analysis around the use of the mechanic started. Different strategies of using it to the best advantage were discussed and weighted off against each other. The dominanting strategy among the players with night roles and therefore influence on the mechanic agreed to be a conservative use of the night roles to not reach the treasholds of 7 to 9 role uses.

This resulted in only half of the night actions being used, successfully denying the "double action"/"janitored" day and night phases the following day and remained the in use throughout night 1 to night 3 as leading strategy from town's side as evident by (periodically) missing night actions from roles such as Doctor, Prostitute and Spirit Medium.

Only by night 4 confidence in night role use increased as the pool of players with night roles has declined enough to not reach the threasholds and stay in line with the initial strategy.

Spoiler: Faction Performance

Townie Faction
The lack of information from performed investigative night actions from the dominant mechanic strategy, and setup, led to analysis of players' behaviours, such as role claims. Those were weighted off against each other and analyzed against plausibility in setup. Behavioural patterns, such as voting as well as cooperativeness with the leading strategy became factors to decide the order of day lynches. More subtile patterns, such as timing of role hints, activity in total were picked up on as well, but were secondary as deemed to be non substantial enough. By end of D4 and four lynched townies in a row, the situation for town became unwinnable, however was not perceived as such, as the existence of third party was not discovered and thus disregarded, but giving a false sense of security through the bloated numbers. Inconsistancies in night role action claims against the confirmed night role action used by the mechanic came in as an additional analysis tool as well, however, already at a very late point in game, and too late to turn the tides.

Mafia Faction
Starting off very cautiously assessing the importance of the mechanic, almost no one participating actively in discussions throught the first day phase, or hinting the nature of a role, before going into first night discussions with the team to talk through and align a working strategy. Through following day phases the team succeeded in dodging day lynches in diverting the players to find someone more suspicious or inconsitant to lynch instead. The strategy to pass the Hot Potatoe secondary role to an investigative townie role and blocking it paid off greatly and was overlooked by the other players long enough to almost tie in numbers with remaining factions. The existance of third party, while couple of times mentioned in the internal brain stormings was not seriously enough considered to start looking into the potential candidates for it. The focus remained heavily on dismantling town, even at the point where it was not possible to lynch townies anymore. The end game strategy became working towards reaching a close enough number and win the game with the additional Noble vote, unaware of it belonging to third party as well.

Third Party Faction
With plenty players to go through Threesome candidate took six guesses to join the Lovers' party and their night discussions. The night protection role ensured survival of one mafia kill attempt, and the false claim by an other townie benefited and made him trusted enough to not be lynched. Mafia, while picking the apprenticed Strongman role chose a different target to use it on, making him literally dodge the bullet until making the mafia lover aware of his own existence shortly after. Similarly unaware of the identity of the candidate the lovers were trying to give hints about their own alignment, as discretely as possible to not expose themselves completely. Town lover although passing the potato stayed under the radar during day phases long enough to get day time benefits from the town role on D5. Mafia lover was from then on faced with a bigger challenge to keep the town counterpart alive, but, was trusted within the faction even while persuading to go for alternative options. During the day Mafia lover remained trusted by town also through incriminating mafia faction members, until only one was left and numbers allowed it to win with the votes.

Spoiler: New Roles Performance Review

Hot Potato played by @MarmaladeSky D1, @Holt D2, @sakura-aneki D3-D5 (killed D5)

The starting position of Hot Potato was given to a Town-aligned secondardy Third Party out of curiosity to see what they do with it. Through the exchange with the Mafia Lover it was quietly passed on to a Mafia player, to then decide within the team. Mafia team passed it on to role revealed Spy and going forward effectively blocked with the Mafia Escort the investigative role as well as the further passing in one action. Due to the novelty of this role and strategy and no indication of a Mafia Escort in the setup to that point Town did not identify this as highly benefitial Mafia strategy and held the passing Mafia Member accountable up until after the Hot Potato exploded.

In role design we categorized this role as a Priority 3 action to potentially block the movement. If this is going to remain a one-sided pro-Mafia strategy only, perhaps the categorization into Priority 3 need be reevalued again. I think this needs at least two or three games further test runs. In any case the movement of the Hot Potato is an important new information for the players to analyze.


Necromancer played by @Demonspeed (killed N4)

This role starts off basically very vanilla and with progressing game increasingly gains strength. All really depends not only on the Town setup, but also the order in which Townies died, thus bit on the harder side to plan around in game design as it could tilt the balance heavily pro-Town, or be completely useless. This situational usefulness of the role could lead to very unique outcomes and memorable moments, thus looking forward to see what our players will do with it in next games.


Banshee played by @SonOfDaws (lost D8)

Due to the longevity of the player this role could not show all aspects of its functunalities in this game, as the killing action was missing for a full review ( why didn't you die daws ;p). My impression was that similar to all other Townie killing roles it incentivises the player to analyze the player pool in selecting anti-Townie targets. We also drafted it as a Priority 3 action, both selecting and killing, which means it could be blocked. Player raised the question about feedback concerning his viable targets upon death, as he wouldnot know which actions have succeeded and which havenot. Perhaps this need further clarification.


Bulletproof Townie (Lover) by D6 previously (Threesome Candidate) played by @Gajeel (won D8)

Threesome Candidate as secondary role was the new addition in this game, and of course can be paired with a lot of roles on-going. This combination in particular is in the upper spectrum strength wise. Most combinations give this role a solid role claim thus increase the time the player can have to find the other members of the Third Party, thus victory becomes more achievable (as demonstrated in this game). No matter the primary role though, if one Lover dies in the first couple of phases this role has same slim chance as before to guess the remaining member.


Mafia Noble (Lover) played by @Lambu (won D8)

This role was added as a big nerf for the self-confirming Townie Noble. Perhaps also due to the fact that it was added just now the players would rather take it as self-confirming Mafia Noble, thus the Mafia team decided it is best to keep it as a last resort role in end game, when the numbers allow it to lynch a last Townie and win the game. I like to see some more bolder usage of the role in a few more test runs to see if it is versatile enough to allow different playstyles, or it will remain this last resort use. But either way I think it makes the previously drafted Mafia Robber obsolete and see its potential to move it to the chopping board and go on with Mafia Noble alone.

Spoiler: Conclusion/Learnings

The built game mechanic is right now the best tool to try out different cencepts in the meta and potentially explore new rules or addition of new roles. What we were most curious about was exploring different voting regulations, concept of collective vs individual choice to select varying night scenarios.

Voting concepts: From the three concepts it turned out to be the least impactful. This might or might not have been heavily influenced through the simultaneous introduction of new tie breaking rule, which turned out to shift the timing of the votes more towards the end. Implementation-wise, some inaccurate wordings led to different interpretations of intended concepts, that were unnoticed by us for some time, unfortunately resulting in some frustrations on the side. Generally the hope to observe some different strategies around the voting concepts werenot observable in the scope as hoped in development.

Collective and individual choice concept: Giving the individual players the option to participate in an overarching game mechanic strategy was the second incooperated concept. Players discussing it already on day one, strategizing around it and arguing for/against the respective positions was perceived by us as positively participative. In this format with night actions, not everyone was given the chance to actually influence it individually with their own actions. Changing that is something I might explore in a future game.

Varying night scenarios concept: Coupled with the previous concept of choices the varying night scenarios concept was a very risky endeavour, that was misjudged in game designing phase, thus in hindsight something I would not do again. The role list was build upon the possibilities of these varying night concepts actually occuring, some even in a particular order, which due to the free choices were not going as drafted at all. Lot of these concepts while being big part of the design were not used, thus best done in a set environment only.

​

 

[Holt]

How about takuan, did your get any info on him that could lead us to not lynch him today?

Wait don't misunderstand me. Im not a detective. Yesterday was the first time I used my role

 

[Shad]

Wait don't misunderstand me. Im not a detective. Yesterday was the first time I used my role

lol just wanted to make sure xD

I guess if you die tonight then we won't be missing any information, since it is the first time you used it?

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 26, 2020 ---

I keep forgetting about actions having the same priority, protecting marm is not guaranteed 50/50 add to that another 50/50 if I'm insane, I'm not good at math, but it doesn't look good >.<

I hate this hosts

 

[Gajeel]

To help simply things though, I'm a Banshee with the actions of N1 - Skipped, N2 - Sam, N3 - Marm, and N4 - @gnut

Hmm, didn't we get only 4 night actions N3? I tried looking back but I'm having trouble with the links in the opening post.

Didn't Demon also use his role that night? and sakura?

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 26, 2020 ---

I don't like this whole Takuan lynch tbh, feel like we're playing in mafia's hand again. I'd rather go for xnut. I'm willing to put Holt aside for today as he opened up a bit, but xnut keeps acting the same way.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 26, 2020 ---

Demon didn't use his action N3, hmm

 

[Organizized]

Hmm, didn't we get only 4 night actions N3? I tried looking back but I'm having trouble with the links in the opening post.

Didn't Demon also use his role that night? and sakura?

sakura says she was blocked, but that's still one action from Escort.

I think Demon used his N2, hang on.

 

[Lambu]

My result makes me certain that Sakura is genuine. That's why she is in my trusted list

Second Spy claim?

I keep forgetting about actions having the same priority, protecting marm is not guaranteed 50/50 add to that another 50/50 if I'm insane, I'm not good at math, but it doesn't look good >.<

The sole fact of possible protection should scare them.

Hmm, didn't we get only 4 night actions N3? I tried looking back but I'm having trouble with the links in the opening post.

Didn't Demon also use his role that night? and sakura?

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 26, 2020 ---

I don't like this whole Takuan lynch tbh, feel like we're playing in mafia's hand again. I'd rather go for xnut. I'm willing to put Holt aside for today as he opened up a bit, but xnut keeps acting the same way.

Sakura's action doesn't count if she was blocked, but its a good take.

Also Im ok with Taku or xnut as long as we stay unified, just want to point out that Takuan is not a Freeman and he's the most obvious of the two.

 

[Shad]

sakura says she was blocked, but that's still one action from Escort.

I think Demon used his N2, hang on.

Demon used detective from Erinyes who died second, so should be N3.

If D1 -> N1 -> D2 -> N2 ... is the way we count night...

 

[Baka Taichou]

@Evil3ye Sorry to keep bothering you

I can't find the Potato role in the PM thread.

If the potato is diffused, can it still be passed around, does it act normally as if it was still armed, do people still get PMs saying that they received the potato?

Hot Potato (Unassigned): The Hot Potato explodes at the end of a day designated by the host before the start of the game, killing the player holding it. The holder of the Hot Potato doesn't know when it will explode, but he can pass it to another player at night, separately from any night ability he has. If the holder gets killed, the Potato explodes killing both the holder and the killer; if the holder is lynched, the Potato [dies with him].

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 26, 2020 ---

My result makes me certain that Sakura is genuine. That's why she is in my trusted list

so you're a mafia det?

 

[Gajeel]

Neither sakura nor demon used their role successfully N3. Mafia probably had 2-night actions, Daws one and another town the other one. Unless more people come out or we get a better hang on the roles, Daws' claim is solid.

...but gnut? @SonOfDaws

 

[Shad]

Hot Potato (Unassigned): The Hot Potato explodes at the end of a day designated by the host before the start of the game, killing the player holding it. The holder of the Hot Potato doesn't know when it will explode, but he can pass it to another player at night, separately from any night ability he has. If the holder gets killed, the Potato explodes killing both the holder and the killer; if the holder is lynched, the Potato [dies with him].

What I'm asking is what happens if the potato is diffused, can you still pass it to other people, and do they get a PM notifying them that they received the potato.

I checked the rules thread, it doesn't answer this question

 

[Gajeel]

What I'm asking is what happens if the potato is diffused, can you still pass it to other people, and do they get a PM notifying them that they received the potato.

No one explicitly gets to know if a bomb got diffused, not even defusers so for how the diffused bomb interacts in the game I think It depends on the host? They probably went the ''unsuccessful action route'' for the PMs. I'm pretty sure people get to know if they received the Hot Potato if it was successfully passed. Ask Holt or sakura for confirmation.

 

[Lambu]

What I'm asking is what happens if the potato is diffused, can you still pass it to other people, and do they get a PM notifying them that they received the potato.

I checked the rules thread, it doesn't answer this question

Afaik the potato disappears when defused, at least from what I understood when the council voted the role.

 

[Shad]

Afaik the potato disappears when defused, at least from what I understood when the council voted the role.

Hmmm this would mean that you can't pass it once diffused... how does sakura knows again that she still has the potato?
Does she get a PM every round or something confirming that she still has it?

I'm asking because the only reason the escort thingy has any value is because sakura is saying that she can't pass the potato.
Today she said she checked Holt and got no result, while holt said he did use his action.

So there is a possibility the bomb is diffused and one or both are lying.

The point is we can't keep guessing this is the last day, we need to know how this role works.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 26, 2020 ---

@sakura-aneki for somebody claiming to have the potato role, you really seem to have no question or answers about it.

 

[Lambu]

Hmmm this would mean that you can't pass it once diffused... how does sakura knows again that she still has the potato?
Does she get a PM every round or something confirming that she still has it?

I'm asking because the only reason the escort thingy has any value is because sakura is saying that she can't pass the potato.
Today she said she checked Holt and got no result, while holt said he did use his action.

So there is a possibility the bomb is diffused and one or both are lying.

The point is we can't keep guessing this is the last day, we need to know how this role works.

The Potato is a secondary role, Sakura could know she has it if she wasn't notified about losing the role.

A confirmation from the hosts should make things clear tho. @Evil3ye @desin24 @Copy Panda

 

[Baka Taichou]

Hmmm this would mean that you can't pass it once diffused... how does sakura knows again that she still has the potato?
Does she get a PM every round or something confirming that she still has it?

I'm asking because the only reason the escort thingy has any value is because sakura is saying that she can't pass the potato.
Today she said she checked Holt and got no result, while holt said he did use his action.

So there is a possibility the bomb is diffused and one or both are lying.

The point is we can't keep guessing this is the last day, we need to know how this role works.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 26, 2020 ---

@sakura-aneki for somebody claiming to have the potato role, you really seem to have no question or answers about it.

i know because for the past 2 days i've been trying to pass it and keep being told that i still have it in my hands

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 26, 2020 ---

Hmmm this would mean that you can't pass it once diffused... how does sakura knows again that she still has the potato?
Does she get a PM every round or something confirming that she still has it?

I'm asking because the only reason the escort thingy has any value is because sakura is saying that she can't pass the potato.
Today she said she checked Holt and got no result, while holt said he did use his action.

So there is a possibility the bomb is diffused and one or both are lying.

The point is we can't keep guessing this is the last day, we need to know how this role works.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 26, 2020 ---

@sakura-aneki for somebody claiming to have the potato role, you really seem to have no question or answers about it.

yes I don't

LYNCH ME

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 26, 2020 ---

as I said at the start of the day I'M HOLDING TRAINING SESIONS AT WORK FOR NEWCOMERS FOR THE ENTIRE DAY/WEEK/NEXT WEEK.
I can't reply instantly I check whenI give 10 minn breaks nce in a blue moon when I feel they're getting bored )

 

[Organizized]

I have to go for a bit and get my kids at preschool, but I'll be back later.

Before I go: I don't like how Holt still isn't just claiming. Like he's still trying hard not to contradict anything because he hasn't said anything outright. Also as far as I'm concerned, neither of the investigative roles he might be implying would clear sakura. Maybe I'm missing some other role that he could clear her with. Still highly suspect that he's just implying having cleared the player who's the most aggressive toward him.

Be back later.

 

[Lambu]

as I said at the start of the day I'M HOLDING TRAINING SESIONS AT WORK FOR NEWCOMERS FOR THE ENTIRE DAY/WEEK/NEXT WEEK.
I can't reply instantly I check whenI give 10 minn breaks nce in a blue moon when I feel they're getting bored )

No one is asking you to follow the thread in real time. Shad made an observation, thats all.
There's still 8 hours ahead, you can focus on your work and catch up later.

 

[Shad]

i know because for the past 2 days i've been trying to pass it and keep being told that i still have it in my hands

I don't think that how actions work, when you use a doctor you don't get a PM that says you used it, usually there is no PM after you use your action.

No one explicitly gets to know if a bomb got diffused, not even defusers so for how the diffused bomb interacts in the game I think It depends on the host? They probably went the ''unsuccessful action route'' for the PMs. I'm pretty sure people get to know if they received the Hot Potato if it was successfully passed. Ask Holt or sakura for confirmation.

Basically what Gajeel said.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 26, 2020 ---

Only PM i see being sent if to the person that received the potato.

 

[Marmalade]

I agree, one would only know if they have received the potato or not. That's how I interpreted it. I mean, when you are bomb you do not get notified of you being defused either right? Potato is basically a bomb.

 

[Shad]

Guys do you have experience with similar secondary roles like Not Voter Disease ?

If you get blocked do you get notified that you couldn't pass it?

 

[Baka Taichou]

I don't think that how actions work, when you use a doctor you don't get a PM that says you used it, usually there is no PM after you use your action.



Basically what Gajeel said.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 26, 2020 ---

Only PM i see being sent if to the person that received the potato.

Dude, I'm telling you. I told hosts I want to pass it to moegara (since she offered 2 days ago)
The reply was that my investigation ended with no results and that I still have the potato. I cannot quote or screenshot so please get off my back with this. That' the answer I got and it's all I can tell you, since after all this a new role being tested and none of you guys know of it, how am I expected to clear things more than this when I can only go by the information I RECEIVED. It's my freaking second game gimme a break.