Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2021] - Discussion and ToC Talk

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RafGL

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Even if its backlog didn't chart in Shoseki, was Undead Unluck's previous volume this high? It seems it grew.
It did. Low as fuck, but it did.

403 9784088824048 アンデッドアンラック 3 集英社 戸塚慶文 2020.9.4
450 9784088823300 アンデッドアンラック 2 集英社 戸塚慶文 2020.6.4
451 9784088823102 アンデッドアンラック 1 集英社 戸塚慶文 2020.4.3
 

KidaShikage

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It did. Low as fuck, but it did.

403 9784088824048 アンデッドアンラック 3 集英社 戸塚慶文 2020.9.4
450 9784088823300 アンデッドアンラック 2 集英社 戸塚慶文 2020.6.4
451 9784088823102 アンデッドアンラック 1 集英社 戸塚慶文 2020.4.3
Oh, true! I must've skipped it, thanks!
 

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Visual for Gintama the Semi-Final which is apparently meant to act as a prelude to the main movie but will be released a week after the movie premieres. Don’t get how that works.

It’s nothing new, Naruto The Last premiered in theatres on 6 December 2014 but the Naruto Shippuden anime didn’t finish until March 2017. So the movie effectively spoiled the end of Shippuden.

But yea the Gintama production team could’ve scheduled it a bit better lol
 

Neala897

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It’s nothing new, Naruto The Last premiered in theatres on 6 December 2014 but the Naruto Shippuden anime didn’t finish until March 2017. So the movie effectively spoiled the end of Shippuden.

But yea the Gintama production team could’ve scheduled it a bit better lol
Its not the same for MANY different reasons. At this point people should get good idea where this all is heading...
 

ginsenjou

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Question: why do you guys think Jump is struggling with having successful first volumes? This year in particular, the only newbie from a non-veteran that sold over 10k for its first volume is Mashle while Undead, Magu-chan, Roboco sold under 10k for its first week and it looks like it'll be the same for Phantom Seer. Those 3 got reprints and Undead is obviously successful now but I wonder why it's been hard for first volumes for new mangakas to get over 10k? Are the new stories just unappealing to audiences? I get Jump axes most stories they debut in the magazine but I'm just focusing on the sales since 10k for a first volume is seen as a success now
 

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Question: why do you guys think Jump is struggling with having successful first volumes? This year in particular, the only newbie from a non-veteran that sold over 10k for its first volume is Mashle while Undead, Magu-chan, Roboco sold under 10k for its first week and it looks like it'll be the same for Phantom Seer. Those 3 got reprints and Undead is obviously successful now but I wonder why it's been hard for first volumes for new mangakas to get over 10k? Are the new stories just unappealing to audiences? I get Jump axes most stories they debut in the magazine but I'm just focusing on the sales since 10k for a first volume is seen as a success now
As far as I understand, if a series is equal to or above 10K of sales, it is safe. It is not considered a success but is saved.
As magu and roboko are comedies it is good to sell above 10K. I don't remember a gag with Roboko selling that much.
I didn't follow PSI kusuo so I don't know what his sales were like.

Phantom seer in theory is bad, but there have been complaints about lack of stock, I personally will wait to see if there are reprints as it happened with Magu chan and roboko.
 

RafGL

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Question: why do you guys think Jump is struggling with having successful first volumes? This year in particular, the only newbie from a non-veteran that sold over 10k for its first volume is Mashle while Undead, Magu-chan, Roboco sold under 10k for its first week and it looks like it'll be the same for Phantom Seer. Those 3 got reprints and Undead is obviously successful now but I wonder why it's been hard for first volumes for new mangakas to get over 10k? Are the new stories just unappealing to audiences? I get Jump axes most stories they debut in the magazine but I'm just focusing on the sales since 10k for a first volume is seen as a success now
Audience and passiveness.

Jump's circulation keeps decreasing by every quarter, which means less and less people read the magazine now, which is obviously logical to happen given the amount of juggernauts the magazine doesn't have anymore. The issue with this is that, what you'd find logical to do in this situation is to release new and appealing stuff that can take over the place of those already finished series. But instead, and for some reason, we have kept getting serializations that keep dragging on without any sings of improvement be it on popularity or sales. And yeah, I'm referring here to the U19 meme and how keeping that quick and aggresive system could be actually better for a magazine that needs attractive series that reanimate its current state. The fact that as of now we have series that are going for 4, 5 or 6 volumes showing no actual sign of catching wider audiences just means there will be less new serializations that could try to recover that audience. That is, the longer you keep a series/product already known by your audience, the quicker the interest of the magazine will be lost. You can't just force your audience to read something for 40 chapters until it finally ends. The audience will reduce their interest to just a few series that they may be able to skim without even buying the magazine, and call it a day.

Is letting series stay for a good while to see if they improve something that could actually work? Yeah, but I don't think it has been working at all, and results and numbers are clear proof of it. I think it's completely plausible to be more aggresive, to cancel stuff that doesn't show any signs of improvement by its second volume. No need to go all tryhard and have everything U19'd, but just keep stuff that actually gathers interest.

The best example you can put here is Jump+, a platform that has both hits and flops, since Kaijuu and SPYxFAMILY are not the only series on the platform, and there's quite a lot of content that's appalling. But the difference relies in that there's a frequency of new serializations, and that is new series every single month. The audience in the platform knows that, even if 4 out of the 5 series from X month are bad, Y month will bring 3 new series which may have something they may enjoy, and hence the platform maintains a value the magazine doesn't by overextending series. People may not remember, but J+ has a lot of its juggernauts also ending soon (Jigokuraku, Abyss Rage, Boukyaku Battery, Akuma no Memumemu-chan...), but given the platform keeps releasing new and constant content, I think the transition will be way easier.

Of course the argument of they can't be picky because they're losing big series exists, but I just think that's more of a reason to keep trying new stuff. And honestly, we have examples already of series that are successfully landing to discard the idea of needing God knows how many volumes until the series show results or end.

I think the idea of "waiting" is something that could work in a few cases, but still it won't make up for how the magazine currently is, which is just losing more veteran series and losing an audience that may not stay with the current content it offers. And saying just serialize actual good stuff is an easy and stupid answer to the problem. Bring new content, and try new stuff. Even if you end up becoming some kind of revolving door, it's just what I think the magazine needs until it finds stability.
 

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Question: why do you guys think Jump is struggling with having successful first volumes? This year in particular, the only newbie from a non-veteran that sold over 10k for its first volume is Mashle while Undead, Magu-chan, Roboco sold under 10k for its first week and it looks like it'll be the same for Phantom Seer. Those 3 got reprints and Undead is obviously successful now but I wonder why it's been hard for first volumes for new mangakas to get over 10k? Are the new stories just unappealing to audiences? I get Jump axes most stories they debut in the magazine but I'm just focusing on the sales since 10k for a first volume is seen as a success now
That's how Jump always goes in a sense, there have been multiple years where only 2 series make it past 50 chapters. Plus series can growsignificantly in Jump once they're are safe and can find momentum, Act-age didn't sell much better than Roboco and Magu-chan on v1 but it was doing 80k first week by the time it ended (rip).

The lower sales for success otherwise is probably a mix of WSJ's physical circulation shrinking in general and the increase in digital sales (which we don't get to see, meaning series could be selling twice as much in reality for all we know), but also because there's so many new series right now that even something stuck at 10k per volume with no growth can have 5-6 series in a row afterwards that perform significantly worse.
 
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c3pman

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Question: why do you guys think Jump is struggling with having successful first volumes? This year in particular, the only newbie from a non-veteran that sold over 10k for its first volume is Mashle while Undead, Magu-chan, Roboco sold under 10k for its first week and it looks like it'll be the same for Phantom Seer. Those 3 got reprints and Undead is obviously successful now but I wonder why it's been hard for first volumes for new mangakas to get over 10k? Are the new stories just unappealing to audiences? I get Jump axes most stories they debut in the magazine but I'm just focusing on the sales since 10k for a first volume is seen as a success now
Imo in that debate I think there's only one answer: quality of the content because content is king.

At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is the quality of the published content and how appealing it is to the audiences.

We can see that when there are new popular series like Spy X Family and Kaijuu8, they shine by themself wherever the are published (paper magazine or digital).

Editors on the magazine are trying to replicate the same formulas over and over and delivering mediocre series and I think that's going to kill WSJ in the future.
 
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Koni

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Audience and passiveness.

Jump's circulation keeps decreasing by every quarter, which means less and less people read the magazine now, which is obviously logical to happen given the amount of juggernauts the magazine doesn't have anymore. The issue with this is that, what you'd find logical to do in this situation is to release new and appealing stuff that can take over the place of those already finished series. But instead, and for some reason, we have kept getting serializations that keep dragging on without any sings of improvement be it on popularity or sales. And yeah, I'm referring here to the U19 meme and how keeping that quick and aggresive system could be actually better for a magazine that needs attractive series that reanimate its current state. The fact that as of now we have series that are going for 4, 5 or 6 volumes showing no actual sign of catching wider audiences just means there will be less new serializations that could try to recover that audience. That is, the longer you keep a series/product already known by your audience, the quicker the interest of the magazine will be lost. You can't just force your audience to read something for 40 chapters until it finally ends. The audience will reduce their interest to just a few series that they may be able to skim without even buying the magazine, and call it a day.

Is letting series stay for a good while to see if they improve something that could actually work? Yeah, but I don't think it has been working at all, and results and numbers are clear proof of it. I think it's completely plausible to be more aggresive, to cancel stuff that doesn't show any signs of improvement by its second volume. No need to go all tryhard and have everything U19'd, but just keep stuff that actually gathers interest.

The best example you can put here is Jump+, a platform that has both hits and flops, since Kaijuu and SPYxFAMILY are not the only series on the platform, and there's quite a lot of content that's appalling. But the difference relies in that there's a frequency of new serializations, and that is new series every single month. The audience in the platform knows that, even if 4 out of the 5 series from X month are bad, Y month will bring 3 new series which may have something they may enjoy, and hence the platform maintains a value the magazine doesn't by overextending series. People may not remember, but J+ has a lot of its juggernauts also ending soon (Jigokuraku, Abyss Rage, Boukyaku Battery, Akuma no Memumemu-chan...), but given the platform keeps releasing new and constant content, I think the transition will be way easier.

Of course the argument of they can't be picky because they're losing big series exists, but I just think that's more of a reason to keep trying new stuff. And honestly, we have examples already of series that are successfully landing to discard the idea of needing God knows how many volumes until the series show results or end.

I think the idea of "waiting" is something that could work in a few cases, but still it won't make up for how the magazine currently is, which is just losing more veteran series and losing an audience that may not stay with the current content it offers. And saying just serialize actual good stuff is an easy and stupid answer to the problem. Bring new content, and try new stuff. Even if you end up becoming some kind of revolving door, it's just what I think the magazine needs until it finds stability.
I wholeheartedly agree with all of this. I think now's the time to be far more aggressive. Maintain the standards you've set for yourself. I think out of all the magazines currently running, Weekly Shonen Jump has by far the highest sales standards our of all of them. Stuff that might get you running in other magazines will quickly get you axed here. In the past, there wasn't as much of a need to bring in manga because there were many hits that netted big sales, so newbies would have to overcome that. Now, there's really only 7 currently running series that I'd consider "established" in the magazine, and two of them are ending within a month.

5 series. Out of 20. Sure, recently ended series can still expand their franchise potential (Haikyuu, Neverland, and Kimetsu's anime adaptations can cover the rest of their respective mangas) but that makes it even more important to really be aggressive and build up a new roster of manga, while most people are focusing elsewhere. Some series can and have started slowly and blossom later on, but out of the 10 new currently-running series that have already released at least 1 volume, only 3 have ever made it into the Oricon rankings. Sooner or later, Kimetsu's yearly sales will decline, and you're going to want to at least try and fill the void. So in order to maintain that standard, I think it's best to bring in series at a more frequest pace. Who knows? Maybe the threat of the axe can get currently running newbies to shape up more.
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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Question: why do you guys think Jump is struggling with having successful first volumes? This year in particular, the only newbie from a non-veteran that sold over 10k for its first volume is Mashle while Undead, Magu-chan, Roboco sold under 10k for its first week and it looks like it'll be the same for Phantom Seer. Those 3 got reprints and Undead is obviously successful now but I wonder why it's been hard for first volumes for new mangakas to get over 10k? Are the new stories just unappealing to audiences? I get Jump axes most stories they debut in the magazine but I'm just focusing on the sales since 10k for a first volume is seen as a success now
Just a detail, Yozakura first volume was released on February, so it kinda counts as 2020 too kkkk

But my opinion is a mix of current WSJ situation + anthology magazines declining + industry as a whole + way of people consuming manga/anime is changing. It's been obvious since 2019 where, excluding S8 for obvious reasons, the only series that survived from that year were CSM and Yozakura, both that sold over 10k with first volume the rest was canceled sooner or later, so the 10k line been with us before than we actually started to notice and i don't think it will ever go away, SJ will have new series like Ayakashi, CSM and JJK that charts on Oricon since the first volume but 10k will be the new norm and line between potential success and flop, and i don't think is necessarily about quality but that some series take more time than others to take off in sales, series like Kimetsu no Yaiba (even mentioned by Nakano about the topic) and Act-Age only started to really grow after 4 volumes (Yozakura is doing similarly) and quickly went from "its just another series" to "big potential" that paid off (at least with Yaiba), this can be the future for any of the current series too, we just don't know yet and not even Shonen Jump has the luxury anymore of throwing out of the window series that sell at least 10k like they're nothing, that's the part of the industry as a whole, the level of what is considered potential and flop changed as a whole even for SJ.
 

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I'll bring the card before someone does.
Other than a drop in standards (Remember when we mocked the 40k club?), digital sales are partly responsible for the drop in physical volume sales. I think it's about time for we to have Oricon or something to track all the digital sales.
 

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Certainly at the start of the year looking at sales of these 10k sellers it was reasonable to say they might be safe when there was just a few, but with more and more series hitting that benchmark, it's not going to be nearly enough. That being said they're probably more likely cancel Agravity for not growing beyond that than Phantom Seer for a mediocre beginning.
 

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The more I hear talk about digital sales, the more it worries me. A manga's serialization being/moving digital is one thing, but when I hear a series' volumes going digital only (which does happen, even mid serialization, for some of you who might not know), it makes me feel like I have a stomach ulcer. We're slowly creeping towards the age of not actually owning our collections anymore, and it's not an age I want anything to do with, tbh.
 

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Question: why do you guys think Jump is struggling with having successful first volumes? This year in particular, the only newbie from a non-veteran that sold over 10k for its first volume is Mashle while Undead, Magu-chan, Roboco sold under 10k for its first week and it looks like it'll be the same for Phantom Seer. Those 3 got reprints and Undead is obviously successful now but I wonder why it's been hard for first volumes for new mangakas to get over 10k? Are the new stories just unappealing to audiences? I get Jump axes most stories they debut in the magazine but I'm just focusing on the sales since 10k for a first volume is seen as a success now
I think it's for a simple reason : the content.

All series in 2020 (except Ayakashi Triangle and Time Paradox Ghostwriter) have been either battle, gag or a mix of both. That's 16 out of 18 new series. I think this lack of variety makes new series eat each other's audiences and makes it a lot harder for them to stand out, especially when all the established series in the magazine are battle manga (well, not Dr Stone but you get my point).

Zipman and GOTW were both by established authors's assistants, and in the exact same genre. Isn't it a little counterproductive to put these series against MHA and Black Clover ? Isn't it a little counterproductive to serialize Phantom Seer and Our Blood Oath back to back when 2 exorcism series (KNY and JJK) are destroying everything in their path ? It's like a small fast food opening right in front of a McDonalds restaurant, it'll be almost impossible to stand out except if the food's exceptional, and let's be honest, these new series are for the most part not exceptional...
 

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A couple of predictions for 2021:

- Yozakura will do a great year. It is now doing a "Hitman Reborn!" and by the end of the year it will be big in the magazine.
- Around 10 new series. New spokon and romcom.

Status of serializations through 2021:

- Pillars: One Piece, My Hero Academia, Jujutsu Kaisen, Dr. Stone and Black Clover.
- Established series: Mission Yozakura Family, Undead Unluck, Mashle and Ayakashi Triangle.
- Safe: Me and Roboco, Build King and Sakamoto Days.
- Probably axed: Magu-chan and HSF.
- Axed for sure: AB, Moriking, Cop and Dolphin, Our Blood Oath and Phantom Seer.
 
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The thing about getting really aggressive with cancellations right now is that if they did get rid of Yozakura/Roboco/Magu/Agravity etc quickly for not being immediate hits, they'd mostly just end up with a sequence of worse performing replacements. We've had 17 new full series this year and only 3 of those are having proper success from the start. And of those even Undead has been a little shaky so far.

What jump needs right now isn't a very aggressive revolving door, what they need is stability and familiarity. Even if the second tier aren't the biggest series, they're at least something doing well enough that readers can let themselves get invested in, something that gets a chance to put out a great arc and grow well like Act-age or Kimetsu no Yaiba, something you can read comfortably each week knowing it isn't about to be replaced.
 

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Why are Sakamoto and Build King safe after 2/3 chapters?
I don't think Magu-chan gets axed in the near future. This week on 3rd place on ToC with good sales for a newbie and a reprint next week.
And PS axed for sure? After one day sold out in the most stores and online. That's not bad. The problem is we don't know how high the first print was. I think we have to wait to say what will happen. It's possible that we get reprint information next week or in two. And with a reprint the chance gets higher that the series will stay at the magazin. Why should I reprint something when the axe is near?

My list would be:
- Pillars: OP, MHA, JJK, STONE, BC
- Established series: Yozakura, UU, Mashle, Ayakashi
- safe for now: Magu, Roboco
- chance to get axed: PS, Cop and Dolphin, HSF
- the axe will come: AB, Moriking, OBO

We don't know how BK and Sakamoto will perform after 3/2 chapters.
 

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It's not like they're struggling to find space for new series, we just had the most in a single year for decades after all. Jump is brutal because they often only have 2-4 spots open for new manga, they need to get rid of stuff that's not instant hits or they'd have barely anything new each year, but if they cycled out everything that wasn't a clear immediate hit as soon as possible in the magazine's current state they'd be cycling out half the magazine or more every 6 months.

Like imagine if they had been brutal on the v1 10k sellers this year, quickly cancelling everything not selling at least 20k first volume to the U19 club. That'd mean Yozakura, Agravity Boys, Undead, Moriking, Roboco, Magu, Dolphin, all gone already. That'd mean 24 new series in one year, a new manga starting every other issue.
 

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Why are Sakamoto and Build King safe after 2/3 chapters?
people seem to base a series success chances on the general reception it gets in the first few chapters. Of course the problem with that is most people here only get western views or an extremely limited set from Twitter. If you go back to when it started there were people calling TPGW a success already and I wasn't around but I'm sure Red Sprite had it as well.
 
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