Chapter Tower of God Chapter 485 Spoilers & Discussion

[shaheer]

Why the fascination with suddenly elevating regulars to irregular levels of power? Relevance?? If Enryu is any indication of what Baam’s power level could be he won’t need AA or Rak in any of his battles with irregulars...

Remember, SIU stated Zahard could never kill an administrator yet Enryu could.

probably Enryu would have died if he faced zahard along with 10 other irregulars.

 

[cash2088]

probably Enryu would have died if he faced zahard along with 10 other irregulars.

Probably not or do you think 10 of them could have killed an admin? You’re truly underestimating what a feat this is and since Zahard isn’t actually buddy buddy with most of the remaining OG 13 that is an improbability either way.

essentially I frame it like this: what an irregular is to a regular is what an admin is to an irregular, an axis in comparison to an admin is exactly the same relationship. While admins control the tower(world) an axis controls the universe...

edit: added the power scaling in my opinion.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 9, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 9, 2020 ---

I mean there is a reason they were considered “immortal” before Enryu... If all Zahard needed to do is gang up on them I’m sure he’d of tried it. Instead he brokered a deal and is still in all respects subservient to them. He has to follow their rules and exists as the King by their grace and allowance.

 

[lemo]

Probably not or do you think 10 of them could have killed an admin? You’re truly underestimating what a feat this is and since Zahard isn’t actually buddy buddy with most of the remaining OG 13 that is an improbability either way.

essentially I frame it like this: what an irregular is to a regular is what an admin is to an irregular, an axis in comparison to an admin is exactly the same relationship. While admins control the tower(world) an axis controls the universe...

edit: added the power scaling in my opinion.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 9, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 9, 2020 ---

I mean there is a reason they were considered “immortal” before Enryu... If all Zahard needed to do is gang up on them I’m sure he’d of tried it. Instead he brokered a deal and is still in all respects subservient to them. He has to follow their rules and exists as the King by their grace and allowance.

I don't think axis are way outside the scope of the OG13/Urek, because if you look at the attitude of Zahard, Urek, etc they were cocky since day 1 of entering the tower. Having come from a world full of Axis, if they were really that inferior then they would have been a little more cautious, a little more humble...
But of course, my hypothesis doesn't answer why they then never want to return to the world of axis again...but it still also maybe say a little more about the fact that the two abnormally strong forces, Enryu and Phanta, have come yet not really killed the OG13. Even Enryu went about it in such a roundabout way. If we apply Occam's razor, the simplest explanation is that well, maybe they aren't capable of going against all 11 at once.

 

[cash2088]

I don't think axis are way outside the scope of the OG13/Urek, because if you look at the attitude of Zahard, Urek, etc they were cocky since day 1 of entering the tower. Having come from a world full of Axis, if they were really that inferior then they would have been a little more cautious, a little more humble...
But of course, my hypothesis doesn't answer why they then never want to return to the world of axis again...but it still also maybe say a little more about the fact that the two abnormally strong forces, Enryu and Phanta, have come yet not really killed the OG13. Even Enryu went about it in such a roundabout way. If we apply Occam's razor, the simplest explanation is that well, maybe they aren't capable of going against all 11 at once.

I’ve never heard that the world the irregulars come from are inhabited by axes. We have Urek whom takes it as his mission to chase Phanta. But it in no way says anything about his ability to beat him or even come close. In fact it has been said a non axis has “NO chance”...

Phantaminum

Phantaminum (펜타미넘, Pentamineom) is a mysterious and highly dangerous Irregular, currently 1st in the ranking. He is infamous for contributing to the creation of the stereotype against Irregulars. He is presumably the most powerful entity in the Tower and is actually an Axis (author). As the...

towerofgod.fandom.com

“Phantaminum was actually originally a normal human being but was "awakened", using an unknown process, into an Axis.[citation needed]Being an Axis, Phantaminum possesses a power that, when compared to a normal individual, is close to that of a god. This is because normally, the will and actions of an Axis can only be prevented by an Axis of higher level, and a non-Axis has no chance against an Axis in battle. In short, Phantaminum can only be defeated by a more powerful Axis. He is said to be one of the most powerful Axis in the universe.
As an Axis, Phantaminum is the "author", or god, of one "story" in the universe. In exchange for taking on the responsibility of managing this story, he is given a powerful authority over the events that occur in the story. He is able to "write" records that cannot be erased or changed.

• Currently, no one in the Tower is aware of the fact that Phantaminum is an Axis.
• The Rankers of the Tower often debate about who would stand victorious if Phantaminum ever clashed with Enryu. Since Phantaminum is an Axis while Enryu isn't, the outcome is obvious that Phantaminum would win, but people in the Tower do not know that fact.
• It is said that Urek Mazino entered the Tower to track down Phantaminum.[3]
• The author once stated that "Phantaminum could instantly destroy the Tower of God story if he wanted to". In all seriousness, this was not a joke.[citation needed]

So no? They aren’t in the same league at all. Your hypothesis is based on incorrect assumptions.

 

[shaheer]

Probably not or do you think 10 of them could have killed an admin? You’re truly underestimating what a feat this is and since Zahard isn’t actually buddy buddy with most of the remaining OG 13 that is an improbability either way.

I think we barely know the power cap of the irregulars we currently know of to compare.

 

[cash2088]

I think we barely know the power cap of the irregulars we currently know of to compare.

Then why even bring up the scenario?? To say Enryu probably would’ve died you’d have to not only assume Enryu’s power level but also the combined power of the irregulars. If you admit we don’t know how their powers correlate how can one make the assumption combined they’d equal an admin? As far as we do know Enryu is above what they thought to be an invincible and immortal being. That in itself speaks volumes to the difference between them and Enryu.

But hey I needn’t dissuade you of your own opinion just expressing why I don’t believe the assertion to be true, nor the probability of it happening due to their(OG) internal rifts.

 

[Turtle hunter]

Lol at people thinking AA will defeat his dad .

I don't see how 11 irregular can defeat a guardian , when they can t use shinsoo , and a guardian is immortal againt a nomal irregular .

 

[shaheer]

Then why even bring up the scenario?? To say Enryu probably would’ve died you’d have to not only assume Enryu’s power level but also the combined power of the irregulars. If you admit we don’t know how their powers correlate how can one make the assumption combined they’d equal an admin? As far as we do know Enryu is above what they thought to be an invincible and immortal being. That in itself speaks volumes to the difference between them and Enryu.

But hey I needn’t dissuade you of your own opinion just expressing why I don’t believe the assertion to be true, nor the probability of it happening due to their(OG) internal rifts.

Because its an open forum and while i am not sold on any of the views, given the dearth of evidence, i dont think when Bam will fight zahard he will reach a level where he can one-shot his opponent as you seemingly are implying. Not to mention i used the word "probably" which implies i am not really sure.

 

[cash2088]

Because its an open forum and while i am not sold on any of the views, given the dearth of evidence, i dont think when Bam will fight zahard he will reach a level where he can one-shot his opponent as you seemingly are implying. Not to mention i used the word "probably" which implies i am not really sure.

I didn’t imply anything of the sort, if that’s what you inferred from my saying Baam will surpass them that’s on you. If I thought he could one shot Zahard when the time comes I would have said so, what I did say is that when the time comes none of the other irregulars will be able to defeat him so they will have to decide. Baam being unbeatable by a cadre of irregulars is not synonymous with Baam “one shotting” them, sorry! (Alert me when the dearth of evidence proves an admin “one shotted” an irregular, at least that would be a basis to form that assertion under)

Okay, so you said it but aren’t convinced of it, cool!

 

[kkck]

Lol at people thinking AA will defeat his dad .

I don't see how 11 irregular can defeat a guardian , when they can t use shinsoo , and a guardian is immortal againt a nomal irregular .

Yeah, to me this has always been surprising. The context in the series is pretty clear in that aguero cannot and will not become strong enough to defeat his father. His best bet will be to outsmart him at some point... And even that would be a staggering accomplishment.

To be fair though, at least zahard would still be a monster without shinsoo given his exceptional physical capacity. And to varying and lesser extents this would apply to the rest of the family heads. Specially the koon and ha families who also have particularly potent physical strength (though less than zahard). I wouldn't necessarily bet on zahard in this scenario but it wouldn't be too strange if zahard could actually punch an administrator under this conditions. Another factor to consider here is spells... Even administrators could be vulnerable to them if the one who grants it is high enough in the pecking order.

 

[Turtle hunter]

Yeah, to me this has always been surprising. The context in the series is pretty clear in that aguero cannot and will not become strong enough to defeat his father. His best bet will be to outsmart him at some point... And even that would be a staggering accomplishment.

To be fair though, at least zahard would still be a monster without shinsoo given his exceptional physical capacity. And to varying and lesser extents this would apply to the rest of the family heads. Specially the koon and ha families who also have particularly potent physical strength (though less than zahard). I wouldn't necessarily bet on zahard in this scenario but it wouldn't be too strange if zahard could actually punch an administrator under this conditions. Another factor to consider here is spells... Even administrators could be vulnerable to them if the one who grants it is high enough in the pecking order.

Same for people

 

[Crimson Ice]

I mean let’s be real, what main enemy have they helped with? When the ultimate fight of the arc starts they aren’t present..

we can start with the hell train,

Did they help defeat
White?
Kaiser?
Hell Joe?
Zahard?
Gado?

Khun was present when White was beaten, he was controlling when Baam could go down.
Kaiser, help wasn't needed, Baam outclassed her.
Hell Joe, lol don't even know why you brought him UP! Baam didn't even beat Joe himself, so I don't know what point you proved with that.
Data Jahad is your only point Maybe,

and now that we are at the wall their contributions are only through those stronger than themselves. A while back I argued that AA imbued white with some of his Yeon flame boost, I was wrong. AA is seemingly very integral to planning and execution as a strategist but in Baam’s fights he is very much (as is Rak) absent.

Rak's absence and lack of involvement recently has been a major issue for most people. I doubt SIU will continue to shun him as unlike Khun he usefulness is rooted in purely fighting.

Why send a messenger when that messenger could have accomplished the destruction of Zahard? Nah send that boy and make him weaker than the example we just sent to scare them.... Makes sense?

LOL this only makes sense if you ignore what Arlene did. Arlene offered up her child, hence why Baam was blessed and he didn't just send Enryu. Your post implies Enryu is incapable of killing Jahad, which we know is not the case.

and the thorn being Enryu’s power is questionably debatable. It literally could have been from The God on the outside FOR Baam delivered by Enryu. Not a part of Enryu’s power.

You're right, it could have, but I doubt it. As the Thorn itself has shown a similar power to Enryu as they both can ignore an administrator's authority over shinsu.

And yea AA would ABSOLUTELY let someone beat his father for him and assume power. Or is powering up White just to kill Kallavan not an example of exactly this? White isn’t their friend and is an enemy. And he did this specifically knowing Baam wants to beat Kallavan himself. He will use anything to achieve his goals, that should go without saying.

So that argument is moot!

You thought you did something with this huh? Beating Kallavan is not a personal goal of Khun's, so equating this to his goal to beat his father doesn't make sense. Khun said himself he wants to beat his father.

Source on that Enryu won’t appear? Phanta is an axis, Enryu is not. SIU has stated Enryu is still in the tower and will appear later.

Enryu

Enryu (엔류, Ehn-ryoo) is an Irregular. His status is unknown and he is currently ranked 2nd. He is the first known Irregular to have entered the Tower during Zahard's rule. Enryu is one of the most mysterious characters in the Tower, almost as mysterious as Phantaminum. Currently, Enryu's...

towerofgod.fandom.com

• SIU is planning for Enryu to occasionally appear in the later part of Tower of God.
• SIU has specifically stated in a user chat that Enryu is not an Axis.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 9, 2020 ---

He’s learning!! Lol

Never said Enryu was an axis.

 

[cash2088]

Khun was present when White was beaten, he was controlling when Baam could go down.
Kaiser, help wasn't needed, Baam outclassed her.
Hell Joe, lol don't even know why you brought him UP! Baam didn't even beat Joe himself, so I don't know what point you proved with that.
Data Jahad is your only point Maybe,




Rak's absence and lack of involvement recently has been a major issue for most people. I doubt SIU will continue to shun him as unlike Khun he usefulness is rooted in purely fighting.




LOL this only makes sense if you ignore what Arlene did. Arlene offered up her child, hence why Baam was blessed and he didn't just send Enryu. Your post implies Enryu is incapable of killing Jahad, which we know is not the case.



You're right, it could have, but I doubt it. As the Thorn itself has shown a similar power to Enryu as they both can ignore an administrator's authority over shinsu.



You thought you did something with this huh? Beating Kallavan is not a personal goal of Khun's, so equating this to his goal to beat his father doesn't make sense. Khun said himself he wants to beat his father.



Never said Enryu was an axis.

Kuhn did nothing to actually defeat White, you know this and I do. He trusted Baam, that was his ultimate decision... and thanks for proving my point, you can explain him away but he wasn’t present in the fights. Whether he was needed or not is a device directly employed by the author so he doesn’t have to fight... Not even as a momentary participant. Essentially sidelining him. Which was my initial refutation of your incredulity at the thought that SIU would do that. Yet you admit he’s done it with Rak, well now you just have to admit he’s done it with AA too.

I thought I did something? Yeah proved my point with evidence something you’re unwilling or incapable of. AA doesn’t care the method only the outcome, hence he would be fine letting someone else beat his father. Which most concur with, but you’re continuing? Why? You weren’t correct in stating he needed to do it himself. That’s not AA’s character and never has been. Or did you believe he never trained because he was lazy? No, he states on the data floor he could never beat him so why try. Alluding to his plan to usurp the position not by strength, not by direct confrontation.

No source on Enryu not appearing so you’ll just ignore you ever said it huh?

And what I actually implied with the statement about Enryu is that it would be foolish to send a threat and follow it up with something incapable of actually following through with that threat under any circumstance. So LOL you should infer correctly!

The Thorn isn’t Enryu’s power, he was to deliver the thorn... Which is why it never claims he used it, only that it was left where the administrator was slain. And just to play devils advocate, does it matter? Your point about it being a portion so he can’t surpass him is ill conceived. It assumes Baam’s other powers (and whatever else he accumulates) wouldn’t make a difference. When the reality in fact could be that Baam reaches a level close to Enryu and the Thorn tops it off. Or if it is the whole of Enryu’s power it would automatically elevate Baam beyond Enryu. As with the first scenario it’s an addition to another pool of power so to say...

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 10, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 10, 2020 ---

And well you seemed to be mixing up Phanta and Enryu. As SIU only stated Phanta probably won’t appear not Enryu. So I had to make the distinction for you as to why it’s unlikely Phanta would appear and Enryu likely would. And that’s because one is an Axis and the other isn’t... Never did I say you said Enryu was an axis...

 

[shaheer]

Baam being unbeatable by a cadre of irregulars is not synonymous with Baam “one shotting” them, sorry!

So if 11 really powerful folks gang up on one and still their aggregate falls short of the power one posess wouldnt imply that one can basically waltz his way in a single match with any one of the 11? lol ok.

 

[cash2088]

So if 11 really powerful folks gang up on one and still their aggregate falls short of the power one posess wouldnt imply that one can basically waltz his way in a single match with any one of the 11? lol ok.

No, only in the scenario you imagine waltzing implies one shotting. But I do wish “lol ok” was an actual argument...

If 10 men who could only bench 50 pounds fought a man who could bench 500 does it automatically mean he could kill them with a punch if he fought them each singularly? The outcome being the man who could bench 500 would win but it doesn’t mean the weaker men couldn’t put up a fight or survive more than one hit even though their opponent is 10x stronger than them. So again, no I don’t believe he will one shot Zahard and never implied it.

but you are free to believe that it means he can one shot Zahard, I just never said it or implied such.

 

[King Dryst]

If 10 men who could only bench 50 pounds fought a man who could bench 500 does it automatically mean he could kill them with a punch if he fought them each singularly? The outcome being the man who could bench 500 would win but it doesn’t mean the weaker men couldn’t put up a fight or survive more than one hit.... So again, no I don’t believe he will one shot Zahard and never implied it.

If I were the guy benching 50 then I'd be bringing a gun to the fight, lol.

 

[cash2088]

If I were the guy benching 50 then I'd be bringing a gun to the fight, lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 10, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 10, 2020 ---

If I were the guy benching 50 then I'd be bringing a gun to the fight, lol.

Lmaoooo yeah but the point remains... It’s not an absolute that he’d just one shot him because of the strength difference. There are a multitude of factors and SIU isn’t conventional nor simple enough to take the DBZ route: “My power level is above yours, automatic and overwhelming win!!!!”

Zahard needs a thorn.... The strength multiplier!!

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 10, 2020 ---

Yeah, to me this has always been surprising. The context in the series is pretty clear in that aguero cannot and will not become strong enough to defeat his father. His best bet will be to outsmart him at some point... And even that would be a staggering accomplishment.

To be fair though, at least zahard would still be a monster without shinsoo given his exceptional physical capacity. And to varying and lesser extents this would apply to the rest of the family heads. Specially the koon and ha families who also have particularly potent physical strength (though less than zahard). I wouldn't necessarily bet on zahard in this scenario but it wouldn't be too strange if zahard could actually punch an administrator under this conditions. Another factor to consider here is spells... Even administrators could be vulnerable to them if the one who grants it is high enough in the pecking order.

Well he better start working on punching, I heard Baam might be developing some spatial control techs and is harboring a few administrator fragments.... Might just have to resort to punching when Baam starts commandeering shinsu.

 

[kkck]

Well he better start working on punching, I heard Baam might be developing some spatial control techs and is harboring a few administrator fragments.... Might just have to resort to punching when Baam starts commandeering shinsu.

Odds are spatial control techniques are not really unusual for family heads and such. I doubt bam will be able to lord those over them. It would also be a pretty anticlimatic ending if bam can just walk up to zahard and remove his shinsoo control. Something will likely explain why bam can't just do this. My first guess is that such a thing would likely cause conflict with other floor's administrators..

 

[shaheer]

But I do wish “lol ok” was an actual argument...

it's not an argument, it's a signal that I see the futility in engaging on this topic with those parameters.

 

[cash2088]

it's not an argument, it's a signal that I see the futility in engaging on this topic with those parameters.

I’m pretty sure I said it wasn’t. But it’d be more effective to not reply.... That would be the ultimate signal of the apparent futility of your position.