Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2021] - Discussion and ToC Talk

[Mankichi Togawa]

Phantom Seer volume 3 gets released in May I think. That means possible cp on issue 23. If by that issue PS doesn't get color pages, I'll give up on it surviving because Nak being Nak.

 

[SharkBait]

So the color page is for popularity yet people are saying magu isn't popular, honestly people.

 

[Minsel]

I still find it funny that we know very little about the situation with magu but we're still assuming the worst of it.

 

[Serinox]

So the color page is for popularity yet people are saying magu isn't popular, honestly people.

Don't just believe the hype text written by editors. Horikoshi's second series got a CP for Chapter 10 "as thanks for the popularity" and then the series was axed at Chapter 16.

Time and time it was proven that the hype text of the editors can mean jack when it comes down to it.

 

[Mankichi Togawa]

By logic next covers should be like this:

Issue 15: Dr.STONE (anniversary. And let's be real, even if JJK gets the anniversary (and one issue before Stone) too, Nak is going to give priority to DR.PUSH).
Issue 16: My Hero Academia (anime season 5 start. This is more or less the only one I'm 100% confident).
Issue 17: Jujutsu Kaisen (anniversary)
Issue 18: Black Clover (anniversary, celebration of whatever announcement is getting if it gets a movie or whatever).
Issue 19: New serialization round

 

[Ike79]

I'm going to take the Magu-chan CP as a sign that there aren't enough series in the next round for them to end Magu (i.e.: there will probably only be 2 of them). The series is going to stick around a while longer, so they might as well give it a CP. That's probably the editorial thinking.

 

[RafGL]

The leaker added editor notes for CPs
アンデッド
最新JC5巻発売&新展開突入記念Cカラー大増23p

マグ
JC3巻発売記念&大人気御礼センターカラー

Undead Unluck for Volume 5 release and new developments
Magu for Volume 3 release and very popular thanks

Haha yes, don't I love the popularity editor text.

 

[tirakai]

If Magu's getting colour pages while PS isn't it just means jump feels it's doing well enough to be more worth promoting. Gag manga always are held to a different standard, some of you have been here for years and should know this.

The other thing worth considering is that Magu-chan is a lot harder to replace. Phantom Seer isn't a big deal since there's a new battle shounen every year that does significantly better (2020 alone has 2 hit battle shounen already and a possible third depending on Sakamoto's performance). In contrast, after Samon, not a single gag manga reached around the 10k level until 2020 which had the most new series in a year for decades.

So of course they'll want to keep promoting it and try to get more people reading/buying, if Magu-chan starts dropping and has to get axed later this year it could take 5 more years until they get a new series having even that level of success.

 

[Halloween]

Haha yes, don't I love the popularity editor text.

To be fair, they DID put Kind there, instead of King.

Probably their way of covering their bases. >_>

Gag manga always are held to a different standard

Is Magu a gag manga, though?

 

[Stivie]

If Magu's getting colour pages while PS isn't it just means jump feels it's doing well enough to be more worth promoting. Gag manga always are held to a different standard, some of you have been here for years and should know this.

The other thing worth considering is that Magu-chan is a lot harder to replace. Phantom Seer isn't a big deal since there's a new battle shounen every year that does significantly better (2020 alone has 2 hit battle shounen already and a possible third depending on Sakamoto's performance). In contrast, after Samon, not a single gag manga reached around the 10k level until 2020 which had the most new series in a year for decades.

So of course they'll want to keep promoting it and try to get more people reading/buying, if Magu-chan starts dropping and has to get axed later this year it could take 5 more years until they get a new series having even that level of success.

What you said is meaningless. Why give so much special treatment to magu chan if you already have roboko with better sales?
Even Sakamoto and Witch watch are likely to have better sales than magu chan.

It is like I said before, last year the jump lost 7 veterans, it is a waste not to give publicity to Phatom seer, because he sells as well as undead unluck.

 

[CrOF]

If Magu's getting colour pages while PS isn't it just means jump feels it's doing well enough to be more worth promoting. Gag manga always are held to a different standard, some of you have been here for years and should know this.

*Feels it's doing well enough*? Really? Volume 2 generated 0 growth and no backlogs for volume 1, there is nothing left to feel. Just because something is done by the editorial it doesn't mean it is 100% right or the best move, hence we're criticizing it. That's basically just an appeal to authority. And replacing Magu chan isn't any easier or harder than replacing PS. Did you forget the last few serialization rounds being completely swarmed by gag manga?

 

[DreamcastDazia]

And do you think that only OP, MHA, Jujutsu, Dr Stone, Black Clover will sustain the jump?

One piece is over 5 years long, it may seem like a lot, but it is no reason not to invest in more successes.

Mha is moving towards an end, even though we don't know how long it will last.

And Black clover is not so ok, there has been a drop in sales lately.

And isobe is not an excuse to protect magu chan, if you have a series with good sales growth, you invest in it.

PS deserved a CP more than magu chan.

MHA is nowhere near its end

 

[tirakai]

Magu-chan getting good ToC placement and plenty of colour pages so clearly it is doing well enough for Jump's standards.

And replacing Magu chan isn't any easier or harder than replacing PS. Did you forget the last few serialization rounds being completely swarmed by gag manga?

That's exactly my point, we've had plenty of dedicated gag manga the past few years and Magu is the #2 seller of all of them, after only Roboco. It's also placed the best of them on the ToC together with Roboco, so chances are it's performing better on the polls too. If they lose Magu, they might not see a new gag manga do as well as it for half a decade or more again.

It's really not that hard to understand why WSJ would be promoting Magu-chan but not Phantom Seer.

 

[RafGL]

so clearly it is doing well enough for Jump's standards.

With what kind of standards stagnating or declining in sales is good at all?

 

[Halloween]

Magu-chan getting good ToC placement and plenty of colour pages so clearly it is doing well enough for Jump's standards.

But it’s not doing well enough, that’s the entire point. Even for the genre you’re stating Jump has lower standards for (which Magu isn’t even in).

Citing color pages and ToC placements isn’t a counter argument, since those can be manipulated by the editorial.

 

[Minsel]

But it’s not doing well enough, that’s the entire point. Even for the genre you’re stating has lower standards for (which Magu isn’t even in).

Citing color pages and ToC placements isn’t a counter argument, since those can be manipulated by the editorial.

How is Magu not a gag again... The same characters do the same shtick every week. Its a gag imo. We literally have no idea on behind the scenes, we don't know anything, its hard to guess.

 

[101nemesis]

Magu-chan getting good ToC placement and plenty of colour pages so clearly it is doing well enough for Jump's standards.

Both ToC placements AND color pages are decided by editors. It literally means nothing. Especially a CP before the volume release.
If they want to push a series, they can and will.

You know, just like how they announced Build King was "popular" by chapter 2 or something. Or you know, like how they said Moriking was popular and gave it a CP before volume release.

At least, for Roboco, you can make the argument that the push was warranted since it did show growth VoV.
Magu has shown zero growth VoV. The actual data that we have has shown Magu is in fact, not popular and is already a stagnant franchise with zero growth.

If that's a new standard for WSJ, that's just incompetence.

How is Magu not a gag again... The same characters do the same shtick every week. Its a gag imo. We literally have no idea on behind the scenes, we don't know anything, its hard to guess.

You really don't need inside information to look at sales data that you get in Shoseki to estimate how something is doing.

How could we tell that Agravity or Moriking were failures? Did the magazine make announcements about them being failures after their respective volume releases?
How did some of us call S8 will get cancelled after seeing it's Vol 1 and 2 sales? A lot of the same defensive arguments were made for S8 as well. How did that pan out?

No, we looked at the data we have. Something the manga community has done for decades.

 

[Jovan]

Can someone then explain me the point of "TOC talk" of the thread's title here? Almost every recent week, the discussion has been circling back to "TOC is irrelevant", "TOC doesn't indicate the standards", "TOC is manipulated by the editors", "it sells poorly therefore there's no way it's popular", "it's on the bottom but it sells good so who cares" etc.

Why is it even discussed around then, with so many things people talking against it? Just curious now.

 

[101nemesis]

Can someone then explain me the point of "TOC talk" of the thread's title here? Almost every recent week, the discussion has been circling back to "TOC is irrelevant", "TOC is manipulated by the editors", "it sells poorly therefore there's no way it's popular" etc.

Why is it even discussed around here then? Just curious now.

Because it's generally accepted that series constantly at the top are "popular" and series constantly at the bottom are "unpopular". Isn't this obvious by now?

That does not mean it's fixed. EiC can easily manipulate the ToC to push something. Moriking, Samurai 8 are all examples of this. Both had decent placements. S8 got LCP, CPs etc.
Magu is most likely another example for this.

Magu's case is more annoying just because at least with Moriking and S8, they stopped pushing it once the series Volumes sold miserably. Magu is still being given CPs and OK placements despite stagnant sales.
Seeing how Roboco is also being pushed far more than most other newbies, it's potentially a display of biases. At least, again, in Roboco's case there is growth. What is the argument for Magu? Stagnant sales for a new franchise basically makes that franchise moot.

Consider the above and add the fact we have a series like PS that is showing far more VoV growth over most other newbies (selling more than UU before it got the boost) isn't even being given a single CP or a bit of promotion.

And pretty sure most of us annoyed by Magu's treatment actually adore the series. It's just a clear case of incompetence from the editor department.
Similar to how there is an obvious bias towards One Piece over Kimetsu. Things like this should be obvious as day

 

[Manjiknights]

How is Magu not a gag again... The same characters do the same shtick every week. Its a gag imo.

It's a slice of life with comedic elements rather than a gag in the traditional sense as the structure is built heavily upon character dynamics (and they do have development) rather than the jokes being the entire point, and unlike traditional gags that take place in a never-ending vacuum as long as it's not cancelled there is a legitimate plot being built up to and time is actually passing. But it's still under the comedy umbrella in a broad sense.

Even so literally none of this subgenre classification matters in the grand scheme of how many comedy-adjacent series Jump has. Roboco is a pure gag, Sakamoto is a jack of all trades, Witch Watch is a comedy with a big name behind it and already has a lot of advertisement attention so it will probably do well; they will have no trouble filling in for Magu's absence. Yes, you're right, we don't have surveys or digital sales or whatever, could that be influencing their decisions? Sure, but the data we do have (physical volume sales) has historically been a reliable metric of what gets cancelled and what doesn't so it's what we have to work with.

I would sincerely love to be wrong but Magu is probably on borrowed time. If they still want to give it one more shot to grow this volume fine, go for it, but don't ignore other series with potential for growth/higher consistent performance in exchange. Imo everything with a volume coming out soon or newly released that's still running in the magazine should have a color page for their volume releases so as many franchises get promoted to casual readers that may not follow the volume schedule every month as possible. Especially if they're potential breakout hits like Phantom Seer.