Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2021] - Discussion and ToC Talk

[Stivie]

We don't know much about the ranking process so saying it all due to sale and growth is false. There are other factor beside sale. Could be that the people who read PS don't actually participate in the readers survey. Or they do but they simply find other chapters of other series more enjoyable that week, thus PS doesn't have much vote. Again WSJ is a weekly magazine, so certain series will feel more enjoyable reading weekly and the survey mainly aim at that.

So why be tankobon sales?

Since you say it is false, then why put volumes on sale?

Just because we don't know the real reason for a manga's ratings is no reason to belittle the sales of a volume.

 

[Archaon]

So why be tankobon sales?

Since you say it is false, then why put volumes on sale?

Just because we don't know the real reason for a manga's ratings is no reason to belittle the sales of a volume.

Read again, i said that thinking the TOC placement based only on sale and growth is false. And i pretty sure i didn't belittle the volume sale\. I just said that it not the only factor.

 

[Stivie]

Read again, i said that thinking the TOC placement based only on sale and growth is false. And i pretty sure i didn't belittle the volume sale\. I just said that it not the only factor.

It's underestimating. Yea

and what is worse, it is feeding a narrative without logic.

 

[101nemesis]

These all have a very simple answer: volume sales are not the only thing that matters to jump.

We know they do reader surveys every issue and we know the results of those polls affect the order of the ToC in a large way even if it's not exact, why are so many people suddenly acting like polls don't matter or even exist? It should be clear by now that, at least in regards to the ToC, sales probably do not matter at all.

You do realize that surveys are meant to measure the popularity of series. That's it. It's a sample pool of the actual market. That's why they can more often than not predict how much something sells and print accordingly. Why some series can end before a volume even releases. When something gets multiple urgent reprints, it means it exceeded their expectations.

WSJ's goal as a magazine is to sell their product ie manga volumes. Not magazine copies. This whole narrative that WSJ wants to sell magazine over manga volumes is dumbfounded.

Heck, lets go with your own logic. If you want magazines to sell, invest in series that are actually growing, that are grabbing new readers with each release and are selling more over those that are stagnant. That's how you get new readers into the magazine for the long run. People follow the magazine to read the popular series. You're literally just proving Nak's incompetence more with these arguments.

 

[Minsel]

Heck, lets go with your own logic. If you want magazines to sell, invest in series that are actually growing, that are grabbing new readers with each release and are selling more over those that are stagnant. That's how you get new readers into the magazine for the long run. People follow the magazine to read the popular series. You're literally just proving Nak's incompetence more with these arguments.

yay all battle shounen wsj incoming

 

[Neala897]

WSJ's goal as a magazine is to sell their product ie manga volumes. Not magazine copies. This whole narrative that WSJ wants to sell magazine over manga volumes is dumbfounded.

I am pretty sure they want both. Manga volumes doesn go on sale every week but mag do.

 

[J4B1RU]

So why be tankobon sales?

Since you say it is false, then why put volumes on sale?

Just because we don't know the real reason for a manga's ratings is no reason to belittle the sales of a volume.

what you are saying dont make sense at all

 

[Dller]

Toc remains stable. If we take it since the beginning of the year:
1. One Piece, Boku no Hero and Jujutsu dominate the top.

2 .Dr. Stone, Black Cover, Mashle, Me and Robocco, Yozakura, Sakamoto and Ayakashi always in the TOP 10, almost always in the same positions.

3. Undead and Magu-chan as wild cards, the ones that are most varied within TOC.

4. Hardboiled, High School Family, Build King and Phanton at the end of TOC.

5. Dr.Stone, Yozakura and Mashle in the most promoted.

6. Sakamoto showing signs of being an early success and deserving.

Thinking if the next round of cuts can be for May or June only, considering the number of newcomers in the magazine. That is why they are giving promotion periods to works in order to show more urgent results.

 

[Mankichi Togawa]

 

[Neala897]

Two weeks ago Jjk sold 1400000 and last week 1040000 and thats quite a difference honestly... in the end I dont think its going to be as big as kimetsu

 

[101nemesis]

I am pretty sure they want both. Manga volumes doesn go on sale every week but mag do.

The reason why print of the magazine goes down every year is because the magazine sales is irrelevant and it never comes close to selling out.
The only instances that we have on record of the magazine ever coming close to selling out were when a series like Kochikame ended (and I think Kimetsu). Even for that, they scheduled a reprint only months later. This whole argument that WSJ wants to sell magazine over volumes is false.

Also volumes don't go on sale every week? I guess we don't need to look at Oricon weekly after the first week of the month.

 

[ItsSamu]

Although the new TOC itself is nothing too different from what we've come to expect I'm not surprised it's causing yet more divide in opinion.

My current take is that both Phantom Seer and Me & Roboco (and Ayakashi Triangle, though that doesn't necessarily need it) should be the only 2020 post-Mashle serialisations getting the most investment for their future. Phantom Seer clearly has fans when it comes to the volumes and Me & Roboco, while not Saiki or Isobee level, is the closest thing to a mainstay gag manga WSJ has had in a while. Sakamoto Days also seems to be doing well so far but that's more of a 2021/cusp series.

There's clearly something up with why Phantom Seer is receiving so little promotion and has the worst average TOC ranking of any ongoing series - it's been in the bottom 5 for 16 of the 18 weeks it's been ranked (all except the first two chapters). How many series have actually recovered from a low like that? Mission: Yozakura Family went from bottom to where it is now, although aided by the end of several veterans to be in a place of comfort plus a gradual increase in volume sales over time. Sket Dance is another low-ranked from the beginning that comes to mind. Are there many other potential comparisons?

I assume there must be some reason for Phantom Seer doing so poor in the magazine itself, whether good or bad. Either:

1. It gets less votes from readers
2. Expectations were even higher than it's performing now so they're not treating it like a hit
3. It's selling enough volumes on its own without the need to promote it so they're focusing on others
4. Or the editorial department secretly hates it, doesn't care to promote it

If the TOC was a 1:1 representation of volume sales then we'd be able to predict it each and every week, but it's not. We don't know what's really happening behind the scenes; assuming it does last long enough to survive the best insider information we could hope for is confirmation that it had poor weekly votes early on which might explain its weird spot right now. If it does end before Magu-chan, Hard-Boiled, High School Family, or Build King than that would be so stupid. I don't think it will though, not right now at least.

Two weeks ago Jjk sold 1400000 and last week 1040000 and thats quite a difference honestly... in the end I dont think its going to be as big as kimetsu

At this point it feels like it's coming down to whichever series doesn't need reprints that week will take the top spot between them. And if they're both in stock then Demon Slayer still sells more. But JJK isn't backing down either - will be interest to see how it will perform later in the year without the anime while Demon Slayer likely gets a boost from S2.

 

[Neala897]

The reason why print of the magazine goes down every year is because the magazine sales is irrelevant and it never comes close to selling out.
The only instances that we have on record of the magazine ever coming close to selling out were when a series like Kochikame ended (and I think Kimetsu). Even for that, they scheduled a reprint only months later. This whole argument that WSJ wants to sell magazine over volumes is false.

Also volumes don't go on sale every week? I guess we don't need to look at Oricon weekly after the first week of the month.

Weekly jump volumes do goes on sale only once in month arent they? And not every month if I remember right. You said it yourself - mag serves to promote series. I think its not in Shueisha own interest to dismiss mag sellings since it would mean losing main promotion point.

 

[101nemesis]

Weekly jump volumes do goes on sale only once in month arent they? And not every month if I remember right. You said it yourself - mag serves to promote series. I think its not in Shueisha own interest to dismiss mag sellings since it would mean losing main promotion point.

...what?
We had multiple series releasing volumes in Jan, Feb and now in March. We have scheduled volumes releasing in April and May so far as well. What are you even on about?

So, the medium for promotion (the magazine) isn't promoting its biggest newbie from the last 3 batches outselling all other newbies. Fucking genius move.

 

[galaxy-juice]

I think it probably comes down to the survey results. The people who read the magazine week to week probably don't show much interest in the series, so WSJ isn't promoting it within the magazine. They could move it up to reward it for volume sales, but that might be disingenuous to the survey results, which have historically been the benchmark for TOC placement.

Phantom Seer is selling and growing on its own, so WSJ wants to promote other series so they can grow as well. I'd like it if Phantom Seer got a color page or two, but WSJ must not think it would be beneficial for the magazine at the current moment.

At the end of the day, Phantom Seer is pretty impressive for the current era, but it isn't anything special in the grand history of Jump, so it isn't like they're neglecting a secret cash cow or anything. That said, I'd be sad if it ended like this, but the story doesn't seem to be rushing towards a conclusion like Cop & Dolphin, so I think it's probably okay in the short term. I honestly don't know what possessed them to place it at the very bottom this week.

 

[Xzone]

We talk about the survey like all people who like a series vote. We could see many that like PS and vote , not voting for PS because they also like Jujutsu, Yokazura, Undead, MHA, OP, Stone and others, so they don't vote for it.

 

[OtterBrigade]

We talk about the survey like all people who like a series vote. We could see many that like PS and vote , not voting for PS because they also like Jujutsu, Yokazura, Undead, MHA, OP, Stone and others, so they don't vote for it.

That was a plot point in Bakuman. Getting the series from people's 4th best to top 3.

 

[Stivie]

I tell C will be the first newcomer to launch his volume in May, instead of dr Elusive samurai or Witch Watch.

And I tell C going alone, without the presence of the other newbies. Do publishers expect good sales from I tell C.

 

[Neala897]

I tell C will be the first newcomer to launch his volume in May, instead of dr Elusive samurai or Witch Watch.

And I tell C going alone, without the presence of the other newbies. Do publishers expect good sales from I tell C.

I would say its reverse - they suspect it to be complete flop and want confirm it with volume selling

 

[SharkBait]

If the TOC was a 1:1 representation of volume sales then we'd be able to predict it each and every week,

A sales only approach would also favor longer series and prevent newer series from being positioned up front in their first year or more. After all how long would it take for a newer series new volume sale to surpass more established series, that sell 250K-1mlnK in 1st month. Under such a proposition, the issue with Phantom Seer would still result it in being in the bottom 5. Im unsure if even mashle would even be able to get in the top 5.