Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2021] - Discussion and ToC Talk

[Rheine]

Well you can always try to do a fan campaign for Phantom Seer too.

 

[Minsel]

And again, you ignored the 100K copies in circulation of phantom seer. Even if sales have not grown, that remains high.

Circulation doesn't equal sales. Samurai 8 probably had like 200k circulation first volume but we saw how it sold. Just saying

 

[Stivie]

Circulation doesn't equal sales. Samurai 8 probably had like 200k circulation first volume but we saw how it sold. Just saying

But sales fell over time.

and Samurai 8 was kishimoto's manga, the same author of Naruto, much more was expected of him.

It was not even meant to be used as an example.

 

[Pietro]

18#

Color page: Yozakura family and Sakamoto

 

[101nemesis]

Circulation doesn't equal sales. Samurai 8 probably had like 200k circulation first volume but we saw how it sold. Just saying

Yes. Comparing a case of overprinting one volume (of S8) that ended up vastly underperforming to the circulation of 2 volumes of a series because it has gotten multiple reprints to get there is the same exact thing.

This has to be the poorest take I've seen in a while.

 

[James Rye]

Maybe someone made a typo in the order with one zero too much. xD

 

[Minsel]

Yes. Comparing a case of overprinting one volume (of S8) that ended up vastly underperforming to the circulation of 2 volumes of a series because it has gotten multiple reprints to get there is the same exact thing.

This has to be the poorest take I've seen in a while.

Have you seen PS shoseki even near 100k? I currently think its at 50k sales so they're heavily overprinting it

 

[Ravellino]

Have you seen PS shoseki even near 100k? I currently think its at 50k sales so they're heavily overprinting it

on oricon don't even reach 40k

 

[savethecat]

And again, you ignored the 100K copies in circulation of phantom seer. Even if sales have not grown, that remains high.

It is the same as the Ayakashi triangle that had 200K copies in circulation and had CP in celebration.

Even if Phantom seer didn't grow up, that doesn't diminish the fact that the situation of magu chan is worse, and look at him being promoted by nothing.

Do you think that the number of people who buy phantom seer is less or less important than the number of people who vote for magu chan or high school family? of course not.

And we will leave the doubt if phantom seer does not even increase sales, because he still had reprints and also the first volume entered the rank of shogeki again at the time of sales of the second volume. Then stop belittling the manga.

There were many manga that celebrate sales with CP and even good positions, it was always that way. So don't come up with the idea that TOC positions = / = sales.
Because that doesn't justify this lack of promotion for phantom seer.

This has been said many times but

1. 100K in circulation doesn’t equate to 100K sold. For all we know it’s sales could be half that
2. The TOC isn’t a “Ranking” contest, nor is it based on sales.
3. Different series likely have different expectations. For Exp. In Hollywood a movie studio probably isn’t gonna expect their RomCom to pull in as much money as the big action thriller. You keep bringing up Magu-Chan receiving more promo; but Magu-Chan, a slice of life comedy series, probably isn’t expected to sell as much as Phantom Seer, a action heavy battle adventure series.


On that note, I feel like this topic of “Why is Phantom Seer so low! Why isn’t Phantom Seer getting a color page next week! It sells so much!” Happens every single TOC release now

 

[Manjiknights]

Are we just gonna keep having this same argument practically every week now? What’s the point anymore? At the end of the day the ToC is based on whatever the editorial thinks is a good order for the magazine at the time; it’s based on multiple factors, not just surveys nor just sales performance. And a few of those factors are probably behind the scenes ones that we’ll never know. We can question these decisions all we want but ultimately we are never gonna have the exact answer. Personally I don’t think Phantom Seer is in any danger and has the “perma bottom” spot that everyone arbitrarily agreed can only go to gag series because Isobee did it, when there’s no rule saying it can’t go to anything else. Why would it get perma bottom? I don’t know and I’m not gonna act like I do, but they wouldn’t be announcing circulation numbers if they were about to axe it.

I also think Magu-chan and High School Family will live through the spring round, again you can say this is a waste of their time and I wouldn’t entirely disagree, but it is what’s evidently being hinted at. High School Family just got a permanent page increase, voice comic (which granted was probably supposed to come out earlier), and now ToC bump. Magu-chan is a series they can stick pretty much anywhere. It literally just bounced from bottom 5 to top 5 and this isn’t the first time it has done so. That being said they wouldn’t be giving it consistent periodic top quarter placements (something they’ve been doing since like December) if it was immediately on the way out. You can argue Mitama had random boosts like this but it never once was this high past like halfway through its run, and it didn’t have “good placements” in its last 10 issues at all: it had like one or two random boosts to mid-level, not top placements. I still think both of these series are in danger for the summer; Magu could probably still barely make it past its anniversary but HSF might have a hard time reaching its.

For now I’ve settled on this prediction: new batch will start closer to May than April (probably within a couple of issues after the double issue) and the only series that will be axed for it are Cop and Dolphin and Build King, in that order, unless one of either i tell c or Nine Dragons U19s. I think at least one of them will, but I don’t know exactly at what chapter, and that’s just a hunch moreso than anything I can prove with concrete evidence besides YouTube and Jump+ views.

If they actually do axe PS despite the numbers then we can call incompetence, but as of now arguing about it in circles is gonna do nothing for us.

 

[101nemesis]

Have you seen PS shoseki even near 100k? I currently think its at 50k sales so they're heavily overprinting it

1. Oricon doesn't track online retailers.
2. Most importantly, things don't stop selling when they are outside Shoseki 500 and then magically require reprints.

Yozakura keeps going out of Shoseki. Why is it still getting reprints? Because it's selling outside of Top 500.

What even are these arguments?

 

[tirakai]

Have you seen PS shoseki even near 100k? I currently think its at 50k sales so they're heavily overprinting it

Shoseki isn't everything. There's also digital sales, and I think a couple major chains they don't track either.

I posted about it earlier but Roboco v1 having 20k circulation after a couple weeks despite having ~12k by Shoseki's numbers makes me think digital sales + other non-shoseki chains account for about 40% of the total circulation.

Each volume did 20-22k first month, add on later sales not high enough for Shoseki and reprints could probably get it up to 30k total from stuff they track. Then assuming 40% from non-Shoseki sources like digital sales and gives ~100k total.

By a similar logic Roboco's probably ~50k in circulation by now, Magu-chan ~40k.

 

[Minsel]

Yozakura keeps going out of Shoseki. Why is it still getting reprints? Because it's selling outside of Top 500.

Because yoza is underprinted, and phantom seer is overprinted

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 24, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 24, 2021 ---

Shoseki isn't everything. There's also digital sales, and I think a couple major chains they don't track either.

I posted about it earlier but Roboco v1 having 20k circulation after a couple weeks despite having ~12k by Shoseki's numbers makes me think digital sales + other non-shoseki chains account for about 40% of the total circulation.

Each volume did 20-22k first month, add on later sales not high enough for Shoseki and reprints could probably get it up to 30k total from stuff they track. Then assuming 40% from non-Shoseki sources like digital sales and gives ~100k total.

By a similar logic Roboco's probably ~50k in circulation by now, Magu-chan ~40k.

Digital sales don't equate as much as people think they do, at best they account for 1/5 the sales of irl sales as seen with kaiju having 200k digital circulation to 1 mil irl circulation. Its been 3 months with phantom seer 1 and 2, you really think they even sold near 100k with no backlog constantly in top 500?

 

[Stivie]

This has been said many times but

1. 100K in circulation doesn’t equate to 100K sold. For all we know it’s sales could be half that
2. The TOC isn’t a “Ranking” contest, nor is it based on sales.
3. Different series likely have different expectations. For Exp. In Hollywood a movie studio probably isn’t gonna expect their RomCom to pull in as much money as the big action thriller. You keep bringing up Magu-Chan receiving more promo; but Magu-Chan, a slice of life comedy series, probably isn’t expected to sell as much as Phantom Seer, a action heavy battle adventure series.


On that note, I feel like this topic of “Why is Phantom Seer so low! Why isn’t Phantom Seer getting a color page next week! It sells so much!” Happens every single TOC release now

Yes, all that you mentioned has already been said, but even so, it is not possible to simply surprise. the money that is coming in with the sales of the manga.

Mainly WSJ which is the magazine that sells the most in Japan. As long as people insist on the magu chan polls, I will continue to talk about the sales of phantom seer.

And just to finish, just because a manga and a gag or slice o life, this is no reason to keep him alive if he gives a loss of 5K or 3K and does not grow over time. If Roboko is growing sales, because magu chan cannot follow the same example.

 

[101nemesis]

Because yoza is underprinted, and phantom seer is overprinted

LMAO!

Your argument is that WSJ overprinted Phantom Seer once and then said "Okay, we definitely overprinted but we are gonna keep reprinting this few more times".

If you cannot see the problem with this selective narrative, then yikes.
All those hours talking about sales and backlogs here and this is what you decide to respond with.

My goodness. Thanks for the laugh, I guess.
I'm out of this topic. My brain can only hurt so much from arguments like this.

 

[Minsel]

LMAO!

Your argument is that WSJ overprinted Phantom Seer once and then said "Okay, we definitely overprinted but we are gonna keep reprinting this few more times".

If you cannot see the problem with this selective narrative, then yikes.
All those hours talking about sales and backlogs here and this is what you decide to respond with.

My goodness. Thanks for the laugh, I guess.
I'm out of this topic. My brain can only hurt so much from arguments like this.

My only problem with this whole thing is every week as they say, a bunch of PS fans come out of the woodwork to talk about TOC. It's annoying when you repeat the same arguments over and over again.

 

[taqzer]

My only problem with this whole thing is every week as they say, a bunch of PS fans come out of the woodwork to talk about TOC. It's annoying when you repeat the same arguments over and over again.

Its one to two people at most buddy, just ignore

This whole Phantom Seer thing is shaping up to be the second stealth symphony (is that what it was called, I cant remember so clearly it was long ago)
but yeah, the fandom being vocal on here is similar.
IMO the pain felt by having a series you really liked, followed week to week, being canned, is part of being a jump reader

 

[101nemesis]

My only problem with this whole thing is every week as they say, a bunch of PS fans come out of the woodwork to talk about TOC. It's annoying when you repeat the same arguments over and over again.

Almost as if Yoza fans came here and whined week after week about low placements, lack of promotion etc for the first year of serialization. Fans do it all the time here.

But is that your excuse for your profoundly bad arguments? Because those two aren't related at all.

 

[tirakai]

Phantom Seer's terrible placement vs decent sales is the most interesting thing about the ToC right now, of course it's going to get a lot of talk in a topic about discussion the ToC.

 

[SharkBait]

Its one to two people at most buddy, just ignore

This whole Phantom Seer thing is shaping up to be the second stealth symphony (is that what it was called, I cant remember so clearly it was long ago)
but yeah, the fandom being vocal on here is similar.
IMO the pain felt by having a series you really liked, followed week to week, being canned, is part of being a jump reader

I must be misremembering as Stealth Symphony fans were cool, chill, and sensible. It was/is WSJ best short series, IMO.