Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Seven777]

If Natsu does 1 million points of damage to Aldoron, and Aldoron regenerates the damage instantly....The attack itself is still 1 million times stronger than Destruction Fist. Not that I believe that Aldoron can heal from damage that fast either. The entire reason he set up the cities was so that he could recover from injuries sustained when fighting Acno. He's been at it for hundreds of years. It would take days, if not years imo.

Yes. Because we see characters get injured by people weaker than themselves, and sneak attacks work surprisingly well. MP doesn't naturally make you stronger. You have to use it. Either with magic by reinforcing the body, creating barrier, something.

Yes, he is. Against Zeref, his entire right arm was dragonized. Against Mercphobia, his hands got claws and it covered his whole body. My point is that DF doesn't just multiply your power. It dragonizes you. The increase in strength and magic comes as a result of the changes to Natsu's body. Heck, not all of the changes even have to be external. They could be getting better lungs, bones, or brains. Or even changes to the magical container.

We both know the real reason we're having this argument is an outright refusal to scale Natsu's attack power to a reasonable percentage of the 100,000,000 figure. We don't need to know any of the exact numbers. All we need to know is that the strongest god seed was still alive, and probably had more than 1% of Aldoron's total power left. That is the extent of my "absurd assumptions". Get this: The strongest god seed is....well, the strongest. You're the one that needs to bend over backwards to assume the other seeds housed over 99% of Aldoron's power. The seeds were made to contain Aldoron's power because he had too much. Why can't it be that simple? Why would they multiply his power? I'm not against factoring a nerf from the other seeds being destroyed, even if I don't really see why it's needed, but at least give a reasonable number. A 99.9999% nerf when the strongest seed is still fighting and the main body is still shooting out attacks like this? We don't actually know for certain how much each seeds nerfs Aldoron. However, if your argument doesn't work if Aldoron has just 1% of his power, and mine still works if we give up a whopping 99%....Then maybe, just maybe, my odds are just a tad higher?

Spoiler

Ignia knew what was going on. He could even sense that the army attacking him with canons wasn't going to work. And my point still stands. The entire reason Ignia even wants to fight Natsu is so that beating Natsu would prove to everyone that Ignia is the strongest. His initial target was Acnologia, and now that he's dead he figures the next best thing is to make Natsu stronger. Ignia would not be happy with Natsu's progress if he was only 1% of a god dragon's power.

Igneel can't mix Ignia's flames with his own because they've literally never met, and vice versa. Atlas too, with Ignia. If we are to believe that mixing different elements like 7DS dramatically increases power, why can't mixing different types of Dragon Fires achieve similar results?

Without dragon force, Aldoron would absolutely destroy a dozen Natsu's. He'd just stab them repeatedly with thicket, and they would have no way of closing their injuries even if they could burn it off. What do you think was about to happen to the guild if Natsu hadn't beaten the god seed. They would have kept eating thicket thorns until they dropped, or be forced to run away.

Even with Acnologia, his body exploded after his spirit fully crumbled. There was no indication that Acnologia's dragon form was weakened up until the point he exploded. Same with Aldoron. We see the exact moment Aldoron's MP leaves his body, and it's after the seed fully crumbles away.....As is the reasonable expectation. Wtf is a death cry? The god seed had his body, or at least his head, intact after Natsu's attack blew a hole in his back. The sound is literally coming from his mouth. Let's not make it any more complicated than it has to be. The seed died when it fully crumbled, and it's power left Aldoron's body afterwards. which we see in the form of energy bursting out from the dragon.

I don't think size alone proves that Purgatory fire is 1 million times stronger. The fact that purgatory blasted a hole in Aldoron is what puts the figure in the millions. The damage to the city just proves it's more than 10x Destruction Fist. FYI, I would easily consider giant Gajeel's attack power to be stronger than that of destruction fist. If giant Gajeel hits one of the cities, I have no doubt that he can wipe it out. That's easily more than 10x Destruction Fist. He just can't blow a hole in Aldoron, so he wouldn't be millions x Destruction Fist.

-Millions include regeneration. It's not millions to damage Aldaron, it's millions to beat him. Deal 1 damage, regenerate it, and it's only 99,999,999 to go.
-That was when he was a weakling.
-You realize that in making this nerf =/= durability reduction argument, you're saying Natsu could oneshot Selene right here, right now?
-And against Aldaron, he had the same dragonization he had from ToH or Zero or Mard. So no multiplier means Natsu isn't even doubling his strength.
-We both know we're having this argument because you are desperate to scale Natsu to a number we know for a fact doesn't apply.
-Get this. The "strongest" was being handled by base Natsu and was being matched by DF Natsu. You are outright ignoring his actual performance.
-That %99.99 nerf is a much more reasonable number than Natsu getting a X1,000,000 boost lol. Because like I said, you haven't established they're additive.
-Post that panel as much as you want, it's barely above Brandish tier.
-He knows for a fact Natsu isn't the next best thing. He could be cultivating Aldaron like Selene, he isn't. He wants to fight Natsu because he killed Acno.
-No, he's just met countless other fire dragons and has been confirmed to already eaten one.
-He could barely handle one Natsu, thicket was burnt off by Base Natsu, not even FDK.
-No, he just had all his power leave his body just like big Aldaron. The seed was rendered powerless, so naturally so was giant Aldaron.
-Yes, let's not make this more complicated than it needs to be. Natsu had to kill the God Seed first in order to do that, as was clearly portrayed.

Then we have different idea's of power. If we're talking scale, argue whatever you want, I don't really care. Natsu being a better match for Aldaron due to the scale of his attacks are fine with me, it not really any different than Giant Gajeel being better suited than normal Gajeel. But let's not pretend if he hit Selene with that attack it'd have X1,000,000 the potency of a Demo Fist. Aldaron's hp in the first place is likely entirely due to his size. Hit Aldo with Acno's Igneel slaying bite, I don't think he dies. But Acno's bite>>>>>>>>>>>>Purgatory.

Oh, as for CSK, I simply don't think Selene has 100,000,000 health. I'm also not treating CSK and Natsu the same, I'm treating CSK as an unknown.

 

[mangaempire29]

No I wouldn't because unlike you, I wouldn't go around praising the statement then disregard the mountain of evidence that proves me wrong.

Check my track record if you'd like.

100 YQ: Natsu wins high-diff fight Vs Gajeel.
Mashima after the Aldoron Arc: Natsu and Gajeel are equals.
Conclusion: Natsu and Gajeel are on the same level of power.
You: *Denies this after receiving video evidence on the statement.* Mashima contradicts statements like this all the time. Lol Gajeel lost.

Dude, it's a fictional story, get over it. You got debunked like 6 times about your "precious Mira + Gajeel combo." Don't come at me with that slander argument.

It get's annoying when you disregard half of my posts because it doesn't suit you.

100YQ: Skullion beat Gray. DF Wendy and Base Natsu were beating Skullion. Skullion matched Mira in their fight.
These feats happened.
Conclusion: Mira and Base Natsu got buffed. Wendy is a valid support against Skullion. Gray needs a power-up/better feats.
You: Gray is weaker in the 100YQ than Alvarez. Bruh what?

What evidence have you provided to justify your take on Gray without belittling Gajeel or Mira.

 

[Ramen]

What evidence have you provided to justify your take on Gray without belittling Gajeel or Mira.

The last 10 pages of me and you speaking. That's my evidence.

 

[Ronin31]

The last 10 pages of me and you speaking. That's my evidence.

@Ramen :
stop speaking with him, he is blind about circumstances and Power Scales.
Thinking that current Grey in his lower form of Devil Slayer is stronger than Albaress's strongest form while fighting Invel and END is an exemple.

I post scans about Devil Slayer's condition. They are from the Manga. He didn't read them.

Thinking that Mira is as strong as RL laxus, so stronger than Erza as he thinks that Erza lost her fight, is another exemple. He didn't read the Manga (3 statements of draw, Erza admitted her loss / Laxus admitted his loss, Kyria saw a draw and Mashima's cover put a double KO).

Thinking that Base Natsu did better than Devil Slayer Grey is laughable. I put scans from the Manga of Base Natsu without Wendy vs Skullion, he did same as Ice Make Grey, nothing more. Wendy is the ultimate support against Skullion as she can dispell Ashes and counter his intangibility, making Natsu punching his face. Without Wendy, he did less than Grey who counter his magic for a while. But even with scans as proof, he is still blind.

Let him think Gajeel is as strong as Natsu (FDK) and Gildarts. Let him think Mira equals RL Laxus.
Let him think Current Gajeel and Mira are both > current Devil Slayer Grey > Arbaless's Bloodlust Grey = END.
In that way, as he thinks Base Natsu did better than DS Grey (who, for him, is stronger than Arbaless's Berserker Grey) vs Skullion, he must think current Base Natsu > Arbaless's END.

And Mira + Elfman didn't get beaten by Grey.

It's pointless. Even with Scan's statements. Let him in his dreams....

We don't read the same Manga.

 

[Axiomus]

-Millions include regeneration. It's not millions to damage Aldaron, it's millions to beat him. Deal 1 damage, regenerate it, and it's only 99,999,999 to go.
-That was when he was a weakling.
-You realize that in making this nerf =/= durability reduction argument, you're saying Natsu could oneshot Selene right here, right now?
-And against Aldaron, he had the same dragonization he had from ToH or Zero or Mard. So no multiplier means Natsu isn't even doubling his strength.
-We both know we're having this argument because you are desperate to scale Natsu to a number we know for a fact doesn't apply.
-Get this. The "strongest" was being handled by base Natsu and was being matched by DF Natsu. You are outright ignoring his actual performance.
-That %99.99 nerf is a much more reasonable number than Natsu getting a X1,000,000 boost lol. Because like I said, you haven't established they're additive.
-Post that panel as much as you want, it's barely above Brandish tier.
-He knows for a fact Natsu isn't the next best thing. He could be cultivating Aldaron like Selene, he isn't. He wants to fight Natsu because he killed Acno.
-No, he's just met countless other fire dragons and has been confirmed to already eaten one.
-He could barely handle one Natsu, thicket was burnt off by Base Natsu, not even FDK.
-No, he just had all his power leave his body just like big Aldaron. The seed was rendered powerless, so naturally so was giant Aldaron.
-Yes, let's not make this more complicated than it needs to be. Natsu had to kill the God Seed first in order to do that, as was clearly portrayed.

Then we have different idea's of power. If we're talking scale, argue whatever you want, I don't really care. Natsu being a better match for Aldaron due to the scale of his attacks are fine with me, it not really any different than Giant Gajeel being better suited than normal Gajeel. But let's not pretend if he hit Selene with that attack it'd have X1,000,000 the potency of a Demo Fist. Aldaron's hp in the first place is likely entirely due to his size. Hit Aldo with Acno's Igneel slaying bite, I don't think he dies. But Acno's bite>>>>>>>>>>>>Purgatory.

Oh, as for CSK, I simply don't think Selene has 100,000,000 health. I'm also not treating CSK and Natsu the same, I'm treating CSK as an unknown.

Purgatory Fire blasts a hole the size of a city in Aldoron's back. It's clearly dealing more than 1/100,000,000 points of damage.

What does being a weakling have to do with any of it? Aldoron heals by eating people. That takes time, if for no other reason than it taking time to farm people.

What nerf =/= durability? Aldoron's durability comes as a consequence of his physical composition. Could he use magic to further enhance his stats? Sure. But he doesn't need to, because his stats are already there due to his physical composition. Selene is already a dragon too.

And yeah. So physically Natsu wasn't that strong. Most of the damage he dealt to Aldoron came from his new flames. Dragon Force isn't a multiplier of MP at all. It's basically a transformation magic.

The 99.9999% nerf is obviously figure made up to avoid scaling Natsu to any reasonable percentage of 100,000,000. A reasonable maximum would be a 80%, assuming Aldoron's power is divided evenly between all 5 seeds. There's no reason to believe that any of the seed's power multiplies Aldoron's power in the first place. The seeds were made so that they could contain Aldoron's power, not multiply it. Nowhere does it say that the god seeds multiplied Aldoron's power.

I'm not ignoring his actual performance. This is what Aldoron is still capable of with 4 seeds down. This attack is easily millions of times more impressive than FDK Destruction Fist too.

Spoiler

Also, wait.... you think this attack is barely above Brandish tier? Come on now. Don't be silly. The thorn stabbed a hole clean through giant Gajeel. This is above Gajeel and Brandish combined. Brandish doesn't have attack power anywhere near this level. A giant Brandish won't be able to punch a hole through giant Gajeel, let alone Aldoron. Come on now.

The whole reason Ignia wanted to fight Acno was to test his strength. Ignia wants Natsu to get stronger than the other god dragons, and then beat Natsu, so that he can claim he's the strongest. Ignia absolutely does think that beating Natsu after he's become stronger is the next best thing. If he thought beating the other god dragons would be a more difficult fight, he would have just done that to prove his strength. He literally calls Mercphobia a bum.

Spoiler

How do you know those weren't FDK flames? Thicket was burned off by Natsu at the very cusp of dropping into Dragon Force. And like I said, without DF enhancing Natsu's physicals....it doesn't matter if Natsu burns them off after they've impaled him.

No, obviously Natsu didn't have to kill the god seed in order to blow the dragon body. Because we can see that the god seed was still alive after the hole was put into his body, and we can see that Aldoron's magic power only started leaving the dragon body after the seed was fully destroyed. The fact that you have to invent a term like "death cry" to try to explain how a talking Aldoron is already dead, not dying, is proof of how silly this debate has gotten.

Wanna bet? I'll bet you that an attack like Purgatory Dragon Fire will damage, if not almost defeat, Selene. On the other hand, Selene would be able to no-sell FDK Destruction Fist without DF like Mercphobia did. You don't think Selene is going to be even half as durable as Aldoron? Hold on, you're not saying that Aldoron has durability millions of times stronger than Selene because his magic allows him to grow to such a size, are you? Then why do you have an issue with Igneel or Ignia's flames being millions of times stronger than the other god dragon's elemental attacks because they should contain whatever POF gimmick Natsu has?

I suppose you can argue that Aldoron's durability is a product of his size, but it actually doesn't matter. Even if Acnologia's bite is stronger than FDK Purgatory, it makes no difference. Skewering someone harder doesn't do more damage. Once you hit hard enough to pierce Aldoron, the difference in strength is irrelevant, and what matters is size and AOE. Again, all I'm saying is that any attack that even damages Aldoron by 1% is millions of times stronger than Destruction Fist, because that's the figure we're given. Acno charging at Aldoron would blow a decent size hole in Aldoron too, and also be an attack that's millions of times stronger than destruction fist.

Again the heart of the issue is that you're refusing to scale Natsu's attack power to any reasonable percentage of Aldoron's HP, which is 100,000,000x destruction fist. This is because your bottom line is that, no matter what, Natsu cannot possibly be that strong. The problem is that's just how strong you have to be to damage a god dragon. There's going to be a point where Natsu can damage a god dragon, unless you think every god dragon that Natsu is going to fight from now on is going to suffer an 99.99999% nerf. When that happens, well...

This debate has shown the assumptions we have to make to believe that Natsu has an attack millions of times stronger than FDK Destruction Fist is simply less appalling than the assumptions we have to make to assume otherwise. To argue the former, we just need to swallow the fact that Natsu can damage a god dragon. This is going to be inevitable in future fights anyways. To argue the latter, you have to assume stuff like Brandish having equal attack power to Aldoron's most impressive feat, God Seeds multiplying Aldoron's power, Selene and Aldoron having vastly different levels of HP, Ignia being happy that Natsu is not even 1% as strong as a god dragon. I would go out on a limb and say that none of these points are any that you would argue for if the context of our debate was anything other than Natsu being this strong.

 

[mangaempire29]

The last 10 pages of me and you speaking. That's my evidence.

So no evidence claiming x792 Gray > x793 Gray nor anything disproving Skullion losing to Base Natsu and Wendy nor Mira or Gajeel's current power.

@Ramen :
stop speaking with him, he is blind about circumstances and Power Scales.
Thinking that current Grey in his lower form of Devil Slayer is stronger than Albaress's strongest form while fighting Invel and END is an exemple.

I post scans about Devil Slayer's condition. They are from the Manga. He didn't read them.

Thinking that Mira is as strong as RL laxus, so stronger than Erza as he thinks that Erza lost her fight, is another exemple. He didn't read the Manga (3 statements of draw, Erza admitted her loss / Laxus admitted his loss, Kyria saw a draw and Mashima's cover put a double KO).

Thinking that Base Natsu did better than Devil Slayer Grey is laughable. I put scans from the Manga of Base Natsu without Wendy vs Skullion, he did same as Ice Make Grey, nothing more. Wendy is the ultimate support against Skullion as she can dispell Ashes and counter his intangibility, making Natsu punching his face. Without Wendy, he did less than Grey who counter his magic for a while. But even with scans as proof, he is still blind.

Let him think Gajeel is as strong as Natsu (FDK) and Gildarts. Let him think Mira equals RL Laxus.
Let him think Current Gajeel and Mira are both > current Devil Slayer Grey > Arbaless's Bloodlust Grey = END.
In that way, as he thinks Base Natsu did better than DS Grey (who, for him, is stronger than Arbaless's Berserker Grey) vs Skullion, he must think current Base Natsu > Arbaless's END.

And Mira + Elfman didn't get beaten by Grey.

It's pointless. Even with Scan's statements. Let him in his dreams....

We don't read the same Manga.

You tried to debate Kyoka Vs Jellal and Madmole Vs Gajeel, two obvious fights with each having a clear victor.
There's no indication that x792 Gray > x793 Gray because of his Skullion fight.
Base Natsu and Wendy overpowered Skullion who stomped Devil Slayer Gray. BSS Mira matched Skullion
Natsu and Gajeel are on the same level of power. They went into a high-diff then the creator stated they were equals.

My only claim I'm trying to make is how strong a current Algeria Mira could be. All I'm saying is that she could be on RL Laxus/FP Erza/FP Gajeel/Jellal/FDK Natsu level.

 

[Ramen]

@Ramen :
stop speaking with him, he is blind about circumstances and Power Scales.
Thinking that current Grey in his lower form of Devil Slayer is stronger than Albaress's strongest form while fighting Invel and END is an exemple.

I post scans about Devil Slayer's condition. They are from the Manga. He didn't read them.

Thinking that Mira is as strong as RL laxus, so stronger than Erza as he thinks that Erza lost her fight, is another exemple. He didn't read the Manga (3 statements of draw, Erza admitted her loss / Laxus admitted his loss, Kyria saw a draw and Mashima's cover put a double KO).

Thinking that Base Natsu did better than Devil Slayer Grey is laughable. I put scans from the Manga of Base Natsu without Wendy vs Skullion, he did same as Ice Make Grey, nothing more. Wendy is the ultimate support against Skullion as she can dispell Ashes and counter his intangibility, making Natsu punching his face. Without Wendy, he did less than Grey who counter his magic for a while. But even with scans as proof, he is still blind.

Let him think Gajeel is as strong as Natsu (FDK) and Gildarts. Let him think Mira equals RL Laxus.
Let him think Current Gajeel and Mira are both > current Devil Slayer Grey > Arbaless's Bloodlust Grey = END.
In that way, as he thinks Base Natsu did better than DS Grey (who, for him, is stronger than Arbaless's Berserker Grey) vs Skullion, he must think current Base Natsu > Arbaless's END.

And Mira + Elfman didn't get beaten by Grey.

It's pointless. Even with Scan's statements. Let him in his dreams....

We don't read the same Manga.

Of course he is.

He's reading Fairy Nail....lol

 

[Seven777]

Purgatory Fire blasts a hole the size of a city in Aldoron's back. It's clearly dealing more than 1/100,000,000 points of damage.

What does being a weakling have to do with any of it? Aldoron heals by eating people. That takes time, if for no other reason than it taking time to farm people.

What nerf =/= durability? Aldoron's durability comes as a consequence of his physical composition. Could he use magic to further enhance his stats? Sure. But he doesn't need to, because his stats are already there due to his physical composition. Selene is already a dragon too.

And yeah. So physically Natsu wasn't that strong. Most of the damage he dealt to Aldoron came from his new flames. Dragon Force isn't a multiplier of MP at all. It's basically a transformation magic.

The 99.9999% nerf is obviously figure made up to avoid scaling Natsu to any reasonable percentage of 100,000,000. A reasonable maximum would be a 80%, assuming Aldoron's power is divided evenly between all 5 seeds. There's no reason to believe that any of the seed's power multiplies Aldoron's power in the first place. The seeds were made so that they could contain Aldoron's power, not multiply it. Nowhere does it say that the god seeds multiplied Aldoron's power.

I'm not ignoring his actual performance. This is what Aldoron is still capable of with 4 seeds down. This attack is easily millions of times more impressive than FDK Destruction Fist too.

Spoiler

Also, wait.... you think this attack is barely above Brandish tier? Come on now. Don't be silly. The thorn stabbed a hole clean through giant Gajeel. This is above Gajeel and Brandish combined. Brandish doesn't have attack power anywhere near this level. A giant Brandish won't be able to punch a hole through giant Gajeel, let alone Aldoron. Come on now.

The whole reason Ignia wanted to fight Acno was to test his strength. Ignia wants Natsu to get stronger than the other god dragons, and then beat Natsu, so that he can claim he's the strongest. Ignia absolutely does think that beating Natsu after he's become stronger is the next best thing. If he thought beating the other god dragons would be a more difficult fight, he would have just done that to prove his strength. He literally calls Mercphobia a bum.

Spoiler

How do you know those weren't FDK flames? Thicket was burned off by Natsu at the very cusp of dropping into Dragon Force. And like I said, without DF enhancing Natsu's physicals....it doesn't matter if Natsu burns them off after they've impaled him.

No, obviously Natsu didn't have to kill the god seed in order to blow the dragon body. Because we can see that the god seed was still alive after the hole was put into his body, and we can see that Aldoron's magic power only started leaving the dragon body after the seed was fully destroyed. The fact that you have to invent a term like "death cry" to try to explain how a talking Aldoron is already dead, not dying, is proof of how silly this debate has gotten.

Wanna bet? I'll bet you that an attack like Purgatory Dragon Fire will damage, if not almost defeat, Selene. On the other hand, Selene would be able to no-sell FDK Destruction Fist without DF like Mercphobia did. You don't think Selene is going to be even half as durable as Aldoron? Hold on, you're not saying that Aldoron has durability millions of times stronger than Selene because his magic allows him to grow to such a size, are you? Then why do you have an issue with Igneel or Ignia's flames being millions of times stronger than the other god dragon's elemental attacks because they should contain whatever POF gimmick Natsu has?

I suppose you can argue that Aldoron's durability is a product of his size, but it actually doesn't matter. Even if Acnologia's bite is stronger than FDK Purgatory, it makes no difference. Skewering someone harder doesn't do more damage. Once you hit hard enough to pierce Aldoron, the difference in strength is irrelevant, and what matters is size and AOE. Again, all I'm saying is that any attack that even damages Aldoron by 1% is millions of times stronger than Destruction Fist, because that's the figure we're given. Acno charging at Aldoron would blow a decent size hole in Aldoron too, and also be an attack that's millions of times stronger than destruction fist.

Again the heart of the issue is that you're refusing to scale Natsu's attack power to any reasonable percentage of Aldoron's HP, which is 100,000,000x destruction fist. This is because your bottom line is that, no matter what, Natsu cannot possibly be that strong. The problem is that's just how strong you have to be to damage a god dragon. There's going to be a point where Natsu can damage a god dragon, unless you think every god dragon that Natsu is going to fight from now on is going to suffer an 99.99999% nerf. When that happens, well...

This debate has shown the assumptions we have to make to believe that Natsu has an attack millions of times stronger than FDK Destruction Fist is simply less appalling than the assumptions we have to make to assume otherwise. To argue the former, we just need to swallow the fact that Natsu can damage a god dragon. This is going to be inevitable in future fights anyways. To argue the latter, you have to assume stuff like Brandish having equal attack power to Aldoron's most impressive feat, God Seeds multiplying Aldoron's power, Selene and Aldoron having vastly different levels of HP, Ignia being happy that Natsu is not even 1% as strong as a god dragon. I would go out on a limb and say that none of these points are any that you would argue for if the context of our debate was anything other than Natsu being this strong.

-Meh, I was just getting a point across. Regen is part of the package. Take 50,000,000 hp, regen, still only 50,000,000 left.
-Again, nutrients were needed when he was a weakling. Aldaron no longer needs them.
-So you really are saying Natsu could oneshot Selene right now? Jesus Christ....
-No multiplier means he's just receiving a flat increases. DF is basically a ToH Jellal tier increase.
-Of course it's made up, any figure we name here is made up, including your %80. Nowhere says the seeds are additive of his power either, that's my point.
-Brandish could do that by tossing a pebble. You are totally and completely ignoring his performance. Base Natsu was keeping up, DF Natsu was an equal.
-Alright, it's above Brandish and Gajeel combined..... and? You talk as though that's actually impressive lol. That's not even worth 2 Natsus.
-No, he knows Natsu is weaker, but in the end Natsu still killed Acno, he's the King. He already thinks the God Dragons are above Acno, not equal.
-How do I know the flames Natsu used to burn Invel's Ice weren't FDK? Come now, we both know, we've both argued it.
-Oh? So being on the cusp matters now? Like God Seed Aldaron was on the cusp of dying with all his magic pillars erupting out? Ok.
-Not at all what Mashima was portraying. Killing the God Seed was a hard requirement to doing any damage to Aldaron.
-Yep. I'm betting Selene won't have much issue with Purgatory. I also think the team will have as big a role in beating her as Natsu.
-I'd say her durability is proportionate to her size. As for why that's ok, because she'll be superior in other aspects.
-"Even if Acno's bite is stronger than Purgatory" Lol, as if that's actually in question.
-And it matters, it's one of the only situations where size does matter. Human Acno punches Aldo, it's doing like 10 damage, because Aldo is just that big.
-Reasonable percentage of Aldaron's power? Haha, it's funny watching you say that when your reasonable percentage of Natsu's is %1,000,000.
-Oh, I don't even think Natsu will be the main killer of Selene.
-Why not? I've seen Aldaron's nerfed strength, it's simply not X1,000,000 anyone. No complicated theories need to be made, he's just a Mard level threat.

 

[Axiomus]

-Meh, I was just getting a point across. Regen is part of the package. Take 50,000,000 hp, regen, still only 50,000,000 left.
-Again, nutrients were needed when he was a weakling. Aldaron no longer needs them.
-So you really are saying Natsu could oneshot Selene right now? Jesus Christ....
-No multiplier means he's just receiving a flat increases. DF is basically a ToH Jellal tier increase.
-Of course it's made up, any figure we name here is made up, including your %80. Nowhere says the seeds are additive of his power either, that's my point.
-Brandish could do that by tossing a pebble. You are totally and completely ignoring his performance. Base Natsu was keeping up, DF Natsu was an equal.
-Alright, it's above Brandish and Gajeel combined..... and? You talk as though that's actually impressive lol. That's not even worth 2 Natsus.
-No, he knows Natsu is weaker, but in the end Natsu still killed Acno, he's the King. He already thinks the God Dragons are above Acno, not equal.
-How do I know the flames Natsu used to burn Invel's Ice weren't FDK? Come now, we both know, we've both argued it.
-Oh? So being on the cusp matters now? Like God Seed Aldaron was on the cusp of dying with all his magic pillars erupting out? Ok.
-Not at all what Mashima was portraying. Killing the God Seed was a hard requirement to doing any damage to Aldaron.
-Yep. I'm betting Selene won't have much issue with Purgatory. I also think the team will have as big a role in beating her as Natsu.
-I'd say her durability is proportionate to her size. As for why that's ok, because she'll be superior in other aspects.
-"Even if Acno's bite is stronger than Purgatory" Lol, as if that's actually in question.
-And it matters, it's one of the only situations where size does matter. Human Acno punches Aldo, it's doing like 10 damage, because Aldo is just that big.
-Reasonable percentage of Aldaron's power? Haha, it's funny watching you say that when your reasonable percentage of Natsu's is %1,000,000.
-Oh, I don't even think Natsu will be the main killer of Selene.
-Why not? I've seen Aldaron's nerfed strength, it's simply not X1,000,000 anyone. No complicated theories need to be made, he's just a Mard level threat.

• Since when? Show me Aldoron having the ability to regen without consuming humans. It's the only way he can regen. Show me otherwise.
• No, I'm saying he could damage Selene with Purgatory Fire. Which he will.
• DF is transformation magic. Unless dragonization affects Natsu's container, then it's not an increase to MP at all. Attack power and physical strength comes as a result of the dragonization. The major reason he was strong enough to beat Aldoron isn't because of DF, it's because of the new flame he was using.
• Aldoron literally said that he had too much power, and the seeds were there to help him control it. The seeds don't add to Aldoron's power nor multiply. They simply contain it. Multiplying his power would defeat the purpose.
• You think Brandish can blast a hole through giant Gajeel? Brandish can't do what Aldoron did because Gajeel punching with all his strength as a giant can't do what Aldoron did, and Gajeel hits harder than Brandish when they're small.
• Correct. Giant Gajeel isn't worth 2 Natsu's. But that's only because Natsu includes DF Natsu. Giant Gajeel easily hits harder than FDK Destruction Fist.
• The statement about Ignia thinking the god dragons are above Acno is actually a mistranslation. He actually said their powers reached Acnologia's level.
• Because Natsu wasn't desperate enough to drop into dragon force against Invel, and we literally got a statement saying that the flames he was using to burn Aldoron's thorns was Igneel's flames.
• Alright then. I'll take your bet. I'll bet that the rest of team will be about as effective as they were against Mercphobia, and DF Natsu will deal the most damage and finishing blow to Selene.
• So you're okay with Aldoron having durability millions of times better than another god dragon? Then why do you have such a big issue with Ignia having attack power millions of times better than another god dragon? Especially since we've seen Ignia's power obliterate Mercphobia's roars. Just curious, I happen to believe neither is true and that they're all within each other's ballpark in stats.
• I'm not actually arguing that Purgatory Spear is stronger than Acno's bite. Try responding to the actual point.
• Only if you limit Acno to regular claw swipes. Human Acnologia will do more than 10 damage to Aldoron if he actually uses his magic. You don't think Acno can make a blast as powerful as Purgatory Fire? Besides, we're not talking about human Acno here. We're talking about dragon Acnologia in a full body slam. He'll put a giant hole right through Aldoron.
• So the Aldoron seed is Mard Geer level? I guess he's weaker than Wolfen then....because that guy can literally summon an army of Gildarts and Zerefs. I'm going to have to add this to the growing list of ridiculous assumptions needed to deny the fact that Natsu is simply strong enough to hurt Aldoron's dragon form.

 

[Seven777]

Since when? Show me Aldoron having the ability to regen without consuming humans. It's the only way he can regen. Show me otherwise.

No, I'm saying he could damage Selene. Which he will.

DF is transformation magic. Unless dragonization affects Natsu's container, then it's not an increase to MP at all. Attack power and physical strength comes as a result of the dragonization. The major reason he was strong enough to beat Aldoron isn't because of DF, it's because of the new flame he was using.

Aldoron literally said that he had too much power, and the seeds were there to help him control it. The seeds don't add to Aldoron's power nor multiply. They simply contain it. Multiplying his power would defeat the purpose.

You think Brandish can blast a hole through giant Gajeel? Brandish can't do what Aldoron did because Gajeel punching with all his strength as a giant can't do what Aldoron did, and Gajeel hits harder than Brandish when they're small.

Correct. Giant Gajeel isn't worth 2 Natsu's. But that's only because Natsu includes DF Natsu. Giant Gajeel easily hits harder than FDK Destruction Fist.

The statement about Ignia thinking the god dragons are above Acno is actually a mistranslation. He actually said their powers reached Acnologia's level.

Because Natsu wasn't desperate enough to drop into dragon force against Invel, and we literally got a statement saying that the flames he was using to burn Aldoron's thorns was Igneel's flames.

Alright then. I'll take your bet. I'll bet that the rest of team will be about as effective as they were against Mercphobia, and DF Natsu will deal the most damage and finishing blow to Selene.

So you're okay with Aldoron having durability millions of times better than another god dragon? Then why do you have such a big issue with Ignia having attack power millions of times better than another god dragon? Especially since we've seen Ignia's power obliterate Mercphobia's roars. Just curious, I happen to believe neither is true and that they're all within each other's ballpark in stats.

Only if you limit Acno to regular claw swipes. Human Acnologia will do more than 10 damage to Aldoron if he actually uses his magic. You don't think Acno can make a blast as powerful as Purgatory Fire?

So the Aldoron seed is Mard Geer level. I guess he's weaker than Wolfen then....because that guy can literally summon an army of Gildarts and Zerefs. I'm going to have to add this to the growing list of ridiculous assumptions needed to deny the fact that Natsu is simply strong enough to hurt Aldoron's dragon form.

-Can't, he's never done it, except after Acno. Simply saying it's a possibility, and thus Natsu isn't confirmed millions of anything, he has no number.
-No, you're saying he can oneshot Selene. Unless you're saying she's more durable than Aldaron. Because by your logic she is erased by Purgatory.
-So now DF barely matters? Ok man.
-If that's the case killing them should make him stronger. The effect they have on his body is now even more of an unknown. Helps my argument honestly.
-Which makes Aldaron's feat at best Gajeel+Brandish tier. Not impressive, nowhere near X1,000,000. Like I said, you are ignoring his performance.
-Uhuh, doesn't really contradict my point
-What's DF got to do with FDK on Invel? Yes, we got a statement, which is why we know it was FDK. We did not get a statement before DF.
-You're on. I honestly don't even think Natsu will go DF.
-I will answer this at the end.
-I think he can, but I also think a punch from Acno is stronger than Purgatory Fire, it's simply less effective due to Aldo's scale.
-Mard Geer level threat. As in, he was as much a threat to current Natsu as Mard was to Tartaros Natsu. That's how he performed.


Trying to keep this argument to dot points, but I will take a bit of time at the end here to explain the difference in detail for why I'm ok with Aldaron's size.
Selene and Aldaron are equals. Let's say Aldaron has the advantage in durability, Selene has a similar advantage in speed, offense is more or less equal. As you can see, there's a balance.
Now, Base Natsu and Gajeel are also more or less equal, yeah? Let's just say they are. They're more or less comparable in speed, more or less comparable in durability, more or less comparable in offense. Except.... in comes Purgatory which boosts Natsu to literally millions of times Gajeel's offense, leaving him in the dirt. There's no fucking balance there, it's pure fucking bullshit. Can you imagine if Ignia or Igneel was like that compared to the other God Dragons? They would not be his peers, because Gajeel isn't Natsu's peer, or anywhere close to it. So no, it's not Natsu's magic that makes him what he is, Ignia doesn't deal millions the damage as the other gods, it's pure main character bullshit exclusive to Natsu. Phew, there it is. That's why I'm okay with Aldaron's durability, because there's still balance, the old man is slow as fuck.

 

[Axiomus]

-Can't, he's never done it, except after Acno. Simply saying it's a possibility, and thus Natsu isn't confirmed millions of anything, he has no number.
-No, you're saying he can oneshot Selene. Unless you're saying she's more durable than Aldaron. Because by your logic she is erased by Purgatory.
-So now DF barely matters? Ok man.
-If that's the case killing them should make him stronger. The effect they have on his body is now even more of an unknown. Helps my argument honestly.
-Which makes Aldaron's feat at best Gajeel+Brandish tier. Not impressive, nowhere near X1,000,000. Like I said, you are ignoring his performance.
-Uhuh, doesn't really contradict my point
-What's DF got to do with FDK on Invel? Yes, we got a statement, which is why we know it was FDK. We did not get a statement before DF.
-You're on. I honestly don't even think Natsu will go DF.
-I will answer this at the end.
-I think he can, but I also think a punch from Acno is stronger than Purgatory Fire, it's simply less effective due to Aldo's scale.
-Mard Geer level threat. As in, he was as much a threat to current Natsu as Mard was to Tartaros Natsu. That's how he performed.
Trying to keep this argument to dot points, but I will take a bit of time at the end here to explain the difference in detail for why I'm ok with Aldaron's size.
Selene and Aldaron are equals. Let's say Aldaron has the advantage in durability, Selene has a similar advantage in speed, offense is more or less equal. As you can see, there's a balance.
Now, Base Natsu and Gajeel are also more or less equal, yeah? Let's just say they are. They're more or less comparable in speed, more or less comparable in durability, more or less comparable in offense. Except.... in comes Purgatory which boosts Natsu to literally millions of times Gajeel's offense, leaving him in the dirt. There's no fucking balance there, it's pure fucking bullshit. Can you imagine if Ignia or Igneel was like that compared to the other God Dragons? They would not be his peers, because Gajeel isn't Natsu's peer, or anywhere close to it. So no, it's not Natsu's magic that makes him what he is, Ignia doesn't deal millions the damage as the other gods, it's pure main character bullshit exclusive to Natsu. Phew, there it is. That's why I'm okay with Aldaron's durability, because there's still balance, the old man is slow as fuck.

• He's never done it at all. It's entirely something you made up.
• No I'm not. I'm saying if Natsu inflicts any damage at all to Selene with Purgatory Fire, and she is anywhere near Aldoron's even a small fraction of durability, this will prove Purgatory Spear is millions of times stronger than FDK. I make no assumptions on the type of damage Purgatory Spear inflicts.
• Did I say DF barely matters? DF dragonizes you. It doesn't just multiply your MP. It's possible that DF can allow Natsu's body to generate more MP, but that would be a quirk of dragonizing....Not because DF somehow just multiplies MP. For all we know, there could be changes to Natsu's lungs, brain, bones, or magical container.
• Why would killing the seeds make Aldoron stronger? Aldoron had trouble controlling his power. His seeds helped with that. Destroying them causes their power to dissipate.
• No, it would only be a Brandish+Gajeel feat if it ended in a stalemate. It blew a hole through Gajeel and then continued to smash a mountain range. Gajeel's iron skin gave him better durability than most. Look at all the people who got stabbed by thicket. Anyone from the guild that gets hit directly by the thorn would disappear in a puff of blood.
• I doubt it. If for nothing else than the fact that blasting a hole through Aldoron is strictly a better feat than blasting a hole through God Serena.
• Are you saying the gap between current Aldoron and Natsu is the same as the one between Natsu and Mard in Tartaros? That's not accurate either. Current Natsu was stronger than the Aldoron seed after nerfs. That doesn't prove anything either way. Natsu is now stronger than Zeref. Are we going to say Zeref was a Mard level threat?
• Okay, I get what you're saying. And I'm telling you....If Gajeel somehow got power ups from 2 different god dragon level characters, and then mixed their powers, he'd be right alongside Natsu with his purgatory flames. The only reason this doesn't happen is because Gajeel isn't the MC. But this doesn't give Natsu some super MC hack power. It just means the plot makes Natsu very lucky with his power-ups.
• As far as Ignia and Igneel's attack power being compared to the other god dragons. Well, look at what happened with Mercphobia. Mercphobia tried to put out his flames by dropping the ocean on it. It didn't work. Natsu ate the leftover flames, and proceeded to burn out Mercphobia's MP reserves for the foreseeable future. I can't say for certain that Ignia is overall stronger than the other god dragons because we haven't seen his durability or speed, but honestly? He probably is. The attack power of his flames at least is the best we've seen so far.

 

[kian]

what’s with all the maths. manga and maths rarely go well together

 

[Seven777]

• He's never done it at all. It's entirely something you made up.
• No I'm not. I'm saying if Natsu inflicts any damage at all to Selene with Purgatory Fire, and she is anywhere near Aldoron's even a small fraction of durability, this will prove Purgatory Spear is millions of times stronger than FDK. I make no assumptions on the type of damage Purgatory Spear inflicts.
• Did I say DF barely matters? DF dragonizes you. It doesn't just multiply your MP. It's possible that DF can allow Natsu's body to generate more MP, but that would be a quirk of dragonizing....Not because DF somehow just multiplies MP. For all we know, there could be changes to Natsu's lungs, brain, bones, or magical container.
• Why would killing the seeds make Aldoron stronger? Aldoron had trouble controlling his power. His seeds helped with that. Destroying them causes their power to dissipate.
• No, it would only be a Brandish+Gajeel feat if it ended in a stalemate. It blew a hole through Gajeel and then continued to smash a mountain range. Gajeel's iron skin gave him better durability than most. Look at all the people who got stabbed by thicket. Anyone from the guild that gets hit directly by the thorn would disappear in a puff of blood.
• I doubt it. If for nothing else than the fact that blasting a hole through Aldoron is strictly a better feat than blasting a hole through God Serena.
• Are you saying the gap between current Aldoron and Natsu is the same as the one between Natsu and Mard in Tartaros? That's not accurate either. Current Natsu was stronger than the Aldoron seed after nerfs. That doesn't prove anything either way. Natsu is now stronger than Zeref. Are we going to say Zeref was a Mard level threat?
• Okay, I get what you're saying. And I'm telling you....If Gajeel somehow got power ups from 2 different god dragon level characters, and then mixed their powers, he'd be right alongside Natsu with his purgatory flames. The only reason this doesn't happen is because Gajeel isn't the MC. But this doesn't give Natsu some super MC hack power. It just means the plot makes Natsu very lucky with his power-ups.
• As far as Ignia and Igneel's attack power being compared to the other god dragons. Well, look at what happened with Mercphobia. Mercphobia tried to put out his flames by dropping the ocean on it. It didn't work. Natsu ate the leftover flames, and proceeded to burn out Mercphobia's MP reserves for the foreseeable future. I can't say for certain that Ignia is overall stronger than the other god dragons because we haven't seen his durability or speed, but honestly? He probably is. The attack power of his flames at least is the best we've seen so far.

-Kinda has, he creates wood from his body literally all the time. There's a Purgatory sized hole in his chest after the attack on Gajeel.
-This point of argument here, in case you've forgotten, is you saying that Aldaron's nerf doesn't affect his durability. Which means Purgatory erases Selene.
-Ya, you kinda did. What's a ToH boost compared to a X1,000,000 boost?
-Because they are no longer supressing his power.
-Alright, it's better than Gajeel+Brandish. You can inch it up as much as you want, but that feat ain't ever reach X1,000,000 Natsu's. Or even a dozen.
-If serious Human Acno punched Human Selene in the face, Does it do more damage than Purgatory? Yes, obviously and by a mile.
-Nerfed Aldaron, yes, And I'm talking Base Natsu compared to Mard, Base Natsu compared to Aldaron. No Mard was more a threat than Zeref was(no FH).
-Ok, and I'm telling you, no he wouldn't, he would have that power for one battle and lose it, just like Natsu used to do til now.
-Merc was nerfed bellow half strength, so why wouldn't it work that way? He's lucky to have put out any flames at all. Merc is also bigger and likely more durable. He certainly ain't millions of time weaker or stronger in attack, defense or speed though. What seems likely to me is that Merc's offense is slightly weaker, his speed is slightly lower, his durability is moderately better. Like I said, balance.
Doubt Ignia will be stronger. Dealing with him should be relatively straightforward tbh. Just eat an attack, rise to Ignia Natsu level, add a little PoF, a little luck, maybe a little teamwork and bam. Done and dusted.

 

[Axiomus]

-Kinda has, he creates wood from his body literally all the time. There's a Purgatory sized hole in his chest after the attack on Gajeel.
-This point of argument here, in case you've forgotten, is you saying that Aldaron's nerf doesn't affect his durability. Which means Purgatory erases Selene.
-Ya, you kinda did. What's a ToH boost compared to a X1,000,000 boost?
-Because they are no longer supressing his power.
-Alright, it's better than Gajeel+Brandish. You can inch it up as much as you want, but that feat ain't ever reach X1,000,000 Natsu's. Or even a dozen.
-If serious Human Acno punched Human Selene in the face, Does it do more damage than Purgatory? Yes, obviously and by a mile.
-Nerfed Aldaron, yes, And I'm talking Base Natsu compared to Mard, Base Natsu compared to Aldaron. No Mard was more a threat than Zeref was(no FH).
-Ok, and I'm telling you, no he wouldn't, he would have that power for one battle and lose it, just like Natsu used to do til now.
-Merc was nerfed bellow half strength, so why wouldn't it work that way? He's lucky to have put out any flames at all. Merc is also bigger and likely more durable. He certainly ain't millions of time weaker or stronger in attack, defense or speed though. What seems likely to me is that Merc's offense is slightly weaker, his speed is slightly lower, his durability is moderately better. Like I said, balance.
Doubt Ignia will be stronger. Dealing with him should be relatively straightforward tbh. Just eat an attack, rise to Ignia Natsu level, add a little PoF, a little luck, maybe a little teamwork and bam. Done and dusted.

• And that hole didn't heal back up. Besides, even if Aldoron can heal and Natsu never does enough damage to actually defeat Aldoron, that still doesn't change how an attack that can damage a reasonable percentage of Aldoron scales to FDK Destruction Fist.
• Only if Selene's body is as durable as Aldoron's wood.
• It enhances Natsu's physicals. Closes his wounds and gives him better physical strength. It probably also allows Natsu to use stronger flames more without burning himself. Think of all the advantages of gaining a fraction of a dragon's stats. That's what dragon force does.
• Aldoron's thorn is easily millions of times stronger than FDK destruction fist. If you lined up 12 people with Natsu's durability and shot Aldoron's giant thorn at him, they'll all disappear in a puff of blood. It's just not stronger than Natsu overall, because of what Natsu can do with purgatory dragon fire.
• Debatable. Do you think every punch that Acno threw at the dragon slayers was stronger than Purgatory Dragon Fire? The attack that Jellal's barrier blocked? I can believe Natsu going all out has a better attack than a casual Acno. Heck, Purgatory Dragon Fire is likely within the ballpark of the 7DS punch that defeated Acno. We're comparing an attack whose best feat is gutting God Serena with an attack whose best feat was killing Aldoron. Doesn't mean I believe that Natsu is stronger than Acno, or that Acno can't hit harder.
• Merc wasn't actually nerfed at all. Ignia actually just said that Merc wasn't even using half his strength when fighting team Natsu. The theory behind the nerf under the assumption that Faris held on to some of Merc's power for herself. We know that isn't the case because she no longer has it.
• I wouldn't say Ignia's attack power is millions of times stronger than Merc's, but I would say that it's noticeably stronger.
  
  Spoiler

  

  

  

  

  

 

[Seven777]

• And that hole didn't heal back up. Besides, even if Aldoron can heal and Natsu never does enough damage to actually defeat Aldoron, that still doesn't change how an attack that can damage a reasonable percentage of Aldoron scales to FDK Destruction Fist.
• Only if Selene's body is as durable as Aldoron's wood.
• It enhances Natsu's physicals. Closes his wounds and gives him better physical strength. It probably also allows Natsu to use stronger flames more without burning himself. Think of all the advantages of gaining a fraction of a dragon's stats. That's what dragon force does.
• Aldoron's thorn is easily millions of times stronger than FDK destruction fist. If you lined up 12 people with Natsu's durability and shot Aldoron's giant thorn at him, they'll all disappear in a puff of blood. It's just not stronger than Natsu overall, because of what Natsu can do with purgatory dragon fire.
• Debatable. Do you think every punch that Acno threw at the dragon slayers was stronger than Purgatory Dragon Fire? The attack that Jellal's barrier blocked? I can believe Natsu going all out has a better attack than a casual Acno. Heck, Purgatory Dragon Fire is likely within the ballpark of the 7DS punch that defeated Acno. We're comparing an attack whose best feat is gutting God Serena with an attack whose best feat was killing Aldoron. Doesn't mean I believe that Natsu is stronger than Acno, or that Acno can't hit harder.
• Merc wasn't actually nerfed at all. Ignia actually just said that Merc wasn't even using half his strength when fighting team Natsu. The theory behind the nerf under the assumption that Faris held on to some of Merc's power for herself. We know that isn't the case because she no longer has it.
• I wouldn't say Ignia's attack power is millions of times stronger than Merc's, but I would say that it's noticeably stronger.
  
  Spoiler

  

  

  

  

  

-But who's to say the Purgatory hole in his back is any more a threat to him than the one in his stomach?
-So Selene is more durable?
-Closes his wounds? What? That aside, without a multiplier, it's still just a Zero tier boost.
-That's scale, not power. By your logic Laxus' nuke is X1,000,000 Ajeel, more in fact.
-No, I think that if Acno throws a completely serious punch it dwarfs everything Natsu is capable of.
-Or she lost it because Merc was turned human. If he's not weakened, Ignia Natsu>God Dragon already, Ignia might as well just fight him right now.
-Sure, stronger than nerfed Merc. Maybe even stronger than full power Merc, Merc likely just has stats of his own in his favor.
-Just look at Aldo, say him and Igneel fight. How often do you see Aldaron dodging one of Igneel's attacks? I see that happening zero times. But that's fine because he's obviously more durable.

 

[Ronin31]

There's no indication that x792 Gray > x793 Gray because of his Skullion fight.

It's not because of Skullion.

Questions :
Was Gray at the beginning of his fight vs Invel as strong as when he fought END ?
Was Natsu who fought Gajeel as strong as he was when he fought Aldoron God Seed ?
Was Erza who fought Ajeel as strong as when she fought Irene ?

Again, Natsu took average on Skullion's intangibility due to Wendy. Without, this is what happens :

First Round : the fight is on 1 page and without Erza's assistance, perhaps Natsu was about to disappear same as Gray.

Spoiler: Natsu vs Skullion without assistance, first battle

Second Round : still without Wendy's support :

Spoiler: Natsu vs Skullion without assistance, second battle

They are scans of the Manga. Natsu did nothing better than Ice Make Grey :

Spoiler: Grey vs Skullion

Still think Natsu did better than Devil Slayer Grey who blitz him while Natsu can't, neither Mirajane, and then compete in AoE's magic for a while ?

Spoiler: Gray vs Skullion

The fight with Wendy's assistance :

Spoiler: Wendy + Natsu vs Skullion

The fact is that people can fight Skullion's intangibility with Wendy's element against Ashes. Like currently they can fight Prestesses with Spiritor's enchant, Wendy again. Replace Natsu by Grey and Skullion can be in danger as well. Replace Wendy and base Natsu is doom like Ice Make Gray.

Is it clear for you with the scans I post before ? Can you read them ??

As for Gray, I post again the devil slayer conditions : read it please and you will perhaps understand that current Gray uses his lowest Devil Slayer level while in Arbaless, he used his climax vs END :

Spoiler: Devil Slayer

View media item 24943

Thinking that Base Natsu did better than Grey's Devil Slayer is laughable. As exemple, in One Piece, when Luffy fought Crocodile, he couldn't touch him and was doomed alone. With water assistance (Wendy for Natsu), Luffy could counter his intangibility and punch him to damage his body.

And sorry but Gajeel didn't remain in Fairy Tail's Ace powerhouse : Gildarts, Laxus, Erza, Natsu and Grey (when he began to loose his mental's sanity to reach berserker's rage, not the current one who is far weaker as retaining control over it) are a lot stronger. Both Mirajane and Gajeel are below.

Read the scans, please and the different issues with circumstances. Not only the pictures.

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

The statement about Ignia thinking the god dragons are above Acno is actually a mistranslation. He actually said their powers reached Acnologia's level.

Hey, do you have official scans of this. Can you post it if you don't mind?

 

[aymen24]

Hey, do you have official scans of this. Can you post it if you don't mind?

You saw my thoughts.

 

[Axiomus]

-But who's to say the Purgatory hole in his back is any more a threat to him than the one in his stomach?
-So Selene is more durable?
-Closes his wounds? What? That aside, without a multiplier, it's still just a Zero tier boost.
-That's scale, not power. By your logic Laxus' nuke is X1,000,000 Ajeel, more in fact.
-No, I think that if Acno throws a completely serious punch it dwarfs everything Natsu is capable of.
-Or she lost it because Merc was turned human. If he's not weakened, Ignia Natsu>God Dragon already, Ignia might as well just fight him right now.
-Sure, stronger than nerfed Merc. Maybe even stronger than full power Merc, Merc likely just has stats of his own in his favor.
-Just look at Aldo, say him and Igneel fight. How often do you see Aldaron dodging one of Igneel's attacks? I see that happening zero times. But that's fine because he's obviously more durable.

• It may not be. Purgatory Dragon Fire might only deal 1-5% damage to Aldoron overall. Had the Aldoron seed not died, Aldoron would have just tanked it without much difficulty. It still doesn't change how Purgatory Dragon Fire scales to Destruction Fist.
• Isn't healing what we're talking about? Aldoron never showed the ability to just instantly close the hole in his chest.
• I believe, pound for pound, Selene's dragon scales makes her tougher than Aldoron's wood. When size and everything else is accounted for, they're both more or less equally durable. Purgatory Fire should do the same type of damage as something like FDK Brilliant Flame did on Mercphobia.
• I missed this point last post, but regarding how important DF was in relation Purgatory Fire. Well, let's break it down. Igneel's fire is what allows Natsu to burn Aldoron's spikes. Dragon Force is what enhances Natsu's physical stats, closing his wounds back up. Look at Aldoron's response when he was fighting DF Natsu with Igneel's flames.
  
  Spoiler

  
  Now look at Aldoron's reaction to Purgatory Dragon Fire. He goes from the typical "you're 100 years too early to challenge me!!" to "OMFG you gonna destroy the world!!". I'm left to believe the major boost comes from the purgatory flames, and not the physical boost from the DF.
  
  Spoiler

  
• Only if you think Laxus can overpower a bunch of Ajeels. I tend to believe that if Ajeel uses sand world, he'll be able to merge with the sand and dodge Laxus' nuke. Or if he used the barrier he used to block Jupiter canon, he'll be able to mitigate enough damage to survive. Again....If Natsu tried to use FDK Destruction Fist against Aldoron's thorn, the thorn is just going to crush him like a bug.
• I think if Acno throws a completely serious punch, it'll come with a blast of magic that dwarfs the size of Purgatory Fire. The best feat we have of Acnologia's non-magical attack is ripping apart God Serena. That puts his physical strength far above Natsu's, sure. But we're not comparing just physical strength with Purgatory Fire.
• Current Natsu is not as strong as Ignia Natsu, and Ignia probably wants Natsu to be even stronger. Remember, Ignia called Merc a bum.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 29, 2021 ---

Hey, do you have official scans of this. Can you post it if you don't mind?

Actually, I'm wrong here. The official translations uses the word eclipse, which is why I thought that it only meant that they simply reached Acnologia's level.

Spoiler

But I went back and double checked the raws just in case, and Ignia does indeed say they've surpassed Acnologia. Specifically, 凌ぐ means to surpass.

Spoiler

 

[Seven777]

• It may not be. Purgatory Dragon Fire might only deal 1-5% damage to Aldoron overall. Had the Aldoron seed not died, Aldoron would have just tanked it without much difficulty. It still doesn't change how Purgatory Dragon Fire scales to Destruction Fist.
• Isn't healing what we're talking about? Aldoron never showed the ability to just instantly close the hole in his chest.
• I believe, pound for pound, Selene's dragon scales makes her tougher than Aldoron's wood. When size and everything else is accounted for, they're both more or less equally durable. Purgatory Fire should do the same type of damage as something like FDK Brilliant Flame did on Mercphobia.
• I missed this point last post, but regarding how important DF was in relation Purgatory Fire. Well, let's break it down. Igneel's fire is what allows Natsu to burn Aldoron's spikes. Dragon Force is what enhances Natsu's physical stats, closing his wounds back up. Look at Aldoron's response when he was fighting DF Natsu with Igneel's flames.
  
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  Now look at Aldoron's reaction to Purgatory Dragon Fire. He goes from the typical "you're 100 years too early to challenge me!!" to "OMFG you gonna destroy the world!!". I'm left to believe the major boost comes from the purgatory flames, and not the physical boost from the DF.
  
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• Only if you think Laxus can overpower a bunch of Ajeels. I tend to believe that if Ajeel uses sand world, he'll be able to merge with the sand and dodge Laxus' nuke. Or if he used the barrier he used to block Jupiter canon, he'll be able to mitigate enough damage to survive. Again....If Natsu tried to use FDK Destruction Fist against Aldoron's thorn, the thorn is just going to crush him like a bug.
• I think if Acno throws a completely serious punch, it'll come with a blast of magic that dwarfs the size of Purgatory Fire. The best feat we have of Acnologia's non-magical attack is ripping apart God Serena. That puts his physical strength far above Natsu's, sure. But we're not comparing just physical strength with Purgatory Fire.
• Current Natsu is not as strong as Ignia Natsu, and Ignia probably wants Natsu to be even stronger. Remember, Ignia called Merc a bum.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 29, 2021 ---

Actually, I'm wrong here. The official translations uses the word eclipse, which is why I thought that it only meant that they simply reached Acnologia's level.

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But I went back and double checked the raws just in case, and Ignia does indeed say they've surpassed Acnologia. Specifically, 凌ぐ means to surpass.

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-It does if we're relying on the numbers
-Healing a a sideshow. The actual argument is, maybe Purgatory only dealt 5 damage, we don't know.
-I see. Then I disagree. I think Aldaron is obviously in an entirely different league when it comes to durability, just like he's a league lower in speed.
-Zero had the same reaction to Phoenix, and that's about where I'd place Purgatory's value in comparison to DF and to Base Natsu. Base Natsu was getting beaten by Aldo, DF let Natsu more or less equal him, Purgatory let him win. The steps are pretty much exactly the same for Zero.
-How did Natsu overpower Aldaron? He didn't blast through Aldaron's giant spike, he just attacked him undefended. Why are you giving Ajeel various defenses? Let's put it like this then, Is Jellal's Sema X1,000,000 Neinhart?
-I don't, because even a completely serious dragon bit is only Igneel size. In fact Igneel's fire dragon fist is tiny, wouldn't scratch Aldo. Still>>>Purgatory.
-Called nerfed Merc a bum, and not even because he was weak.