Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2021] - Discussion and ToC Talk

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Tamil

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His comment does look promising and I want to believe that this failure can be a good learning experience for him. I'm curious, did anyone say good bye to Shimabu? Surely Tabata and maybe Oda?
 

Mankichi Togawa

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His comment does look promising and I want to believe that this failure can be a good learning experience for him. I'm curious, did anyone say good bye to Shimabu? Surely Tabata and maybe Oda?
Nobody.

Tabata however has his usual social comment regarding other author. This time is a comment to Shuhei (Roboco)
 

4Eyes

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What's the gore way?
The kind of nonsense Chainsawman did. With lots of shocking scenes and limbs flying. I prefer nonsense series without this.
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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I have no idea of what expect from this series, overall you always can get a notion of what is about based in the preview or text but this one, nothing, and i agree with 4Eyes in this case, i prefer this to not be a edgy series with gore just for the sake of shock and contrast
 

Bomber D Rufi

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Congratulations, you completely misunderstood Chainsaw Man.
H--How? I could better understand your reply if they made up things that didn't happen in the series an hated on it for that, but it sounds pretty accurate to what CSM was. One can acknowledge a story whether it is a pontification of the humanity that lurks under the bestial nature of mankind (which for CSM is a stretch, but whatever) or if it's violent shlock and still not like it. What's the "point" of CSM? I'm completely lost as to what you mean.
 
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Aiwass_97

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Shoseki - 04/09

01. Boku no Hero Academia #30
14. Dr. Stone #20
17. Black Clover #28
106. Dragon Quest Dai no Daibouken Shinsou Ayarokuban #17
111. Dragon Quest Dai no Daibouken Shinsou Ayarokuban #16
189. Sakamoto Days #01
338. Boku to Roboco #03
389. Shakunetsu no Niraikanai #03
409. Build King #01
 

Thundercat27

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H--How? I could better understand your reply if they made up things that didn't happen in the series an hated on it for that, but it sounds pretty accurate to what CSM was. One can acknowledge a story whether it is a pontification of the humanity that lurks under the bestial nature of mankind (which for CSM is a stretch, but whatever) or if it's violent shlock and still not like it. What's the "point" of CSM? I'm completely lost as to what you mean.
The dude rain replied to can't see anything beyond surface level aesthetic.
On the other hand, the way rain replying, as usual, is snobbish as hell.
 

Rain Spectre

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H--How? I could better understand your reply if they made up things that didn't happen in the series an hated on it for that, but it sounds pretty accurate to what CSM was. One can acknowledge a story whether it is a pontification of the humanity that lurks under the bestial nature of mankind (which for CSM is a stretch, but whatever) or if it's violent shlock and still not like it. What's the "point" of CSM? I'm completely lost as to what you mean.
I don't know, if you actually pay attention, it's not hard to understand Chainsaw Man as it is; a deconstruction of 正義の味方 narratives framed through a "hero" who from the start has literally no ideals or self-drive to speak of. That is literally the entire crux of the narrative and is one which influences every narrative decision, from the "darker" secondary protagonist who ends up accomplishing nothing but his own self-destruction, the main villain who is built around their idealism and lack of humanity, and fight scenes which end up desperate scraps for survival with zero glory.

Chainsaw is one of my favourite manga ever, so I will step up to defend it.
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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I don't know, if you actually pay attention, it's not hard to understand Chainsaw Man as it is; a deconstruction of 正義の味方 narratives framed through a "hero" who from the start has literally no ideals or self-drive to speak of. That is literally the entire crux of the narrative and is one which influences every narrative decision, from the "darker" secondary protagonist who ends up accomplishing nothing but his own self-destruction, the main villain who is built around their idealism and lack of humanity, and fight scenes which end up desperate scraps for survival with zero glory.

Chainsaw is one of my favourite manga ever, so I will step up to defend it.
This has nothing to do with what 4eyes said, he just mentioned the over the top gore and edgy aspect of the series and not wanting this for the new series, your comment sound as much defensive as the One Piece fans you so used to mock.
 

Rain Spectre

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That has nothing to do with what he said, he just mentioned the over the top gore and edgy aspect of the series and not wanting this for the new series, your comment sound as much defensive as the One Piece fans you so used to mock.
Violence is a part of tone, so unless this series is espcially cruel I highly doubt it will indulge in bloodshed like Chainsaw and to a somewhat lesser extent Jujutsu embroil themselves in.
 

Lord fifth

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I don't know, if you actually pay attention, it's not hard to understand Chainsaw Man as it is; a deconstruction of 正義の味方 narratives framed through a "hero" who from the start has literally no ideals or self-drive to speak of. That is literally the entire crux of the narrative and is one which influences every narrative decision, from the "darker" secondary protagonist who ends up accomplishing nothing but his own self-destruction, the main villain who is built around their idealism and lack of humanity, and fight scenes which end up desperate scraps for survival with zero glory.

Chainsaw is one of my favourite manga ever, so I will step up to defend it.
Deconstruction as it is commonly defined as taking a troupe and seeing how would this trope play out with Real Life consequences applied to it, making the portaginist not have ideals like a typical hero of justice makes this fundamentally not a deconstruction.

(another definition of deconstruction is taking apart a trope or a narrative to expose the inherent contradiction in them, but chainsaw man doesn't do that as well)

You have to actually use the trope you are trying to deconstruct, making denji someone without ideals at the start makes it fundamentally impossible for chainsawman to be a deconstruction of this particular trope.

Baiscally you can't deconstruct a narrative if you are not using its most basic troupes.
 

Bomber D Rufi

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The dude rain replied to can't see anything beyond surface level aesthetic.
On the other hand, the way rain replying, as usual, is snobbish as hell.
You're assuming a whole lot from one person's single sentence reply. As I said you could see a series, get what it is, and still not like it or think it's pointless. Why assume someone only sees surface level storytelling just because they didn't like something?

I don't know, if you actually pay attention, it's not hard to understand Chainsaw Man as it is; a deconstruction of 正義の味方 narratives framed through a "hero" who from the start has literally no ideals or self-drive to speak of. That is literally the entire crux of the narrative and is one which influences every narrative decision, from the "darker" secondary protagonist who ends up accomplishing nothing but his own self-destruction, the main villain who is built around their idealism and lack of humanity, and fight scenes which end up desperate scraps for survival with zero glory.

Chainsaw is one of my favourite manga ever, so I will step up to defend it.
Bolded the final part for emphasis, cause that's the crux of your entire "argument." In short: "I like this series and how dare you not like it too." Especially since your very first sentence in your reply to me is "This series is amazing and if you didn't like it you must not have paid attention." I did, and did not like it. I tried reading it on several occasions and guess what, still did not like it. Nothing about it resonated with me, and I didn't care for the plot or characters. I could go on about how everything you said doesn't matter one damn bit if the story and or characters do not resonate with the reader but your response tells me that I'd be wasting my time as you're willing to defend this series from any perceived slight which I really don't understand. Do you get some kind of fulfillment from this? Does Fujimoto pay you to arrogantly shut down anyone who as a slightly dissenting opinion of CSM? Like the original poster only said they didn't like the over the top gore. What does that have to do with not getting or getting the series? You're not even applying "deconstruction" correctly in this case because for that to work Denji would have had to be the typical shonen protagonist from the start and then gone down the path of darkness as the logical conclusion of the typical shonen tropes, or how the typical story telling archetypes that the shonen demographic prefers would be perceived if applied differently. Neither of which seems to be CSM's point.

Dude, it's fine if you like CSM, but if you're so insecure that someone else mildly implying they didn't care for how it conveys it's story is enough to get you to run to it's defense (badly) then I dunno. You do you but that feels like a waste of time to me. That'd be like me replying to every post praising the series and replying with "You must not have paid attention because CSM is shit." Which would be easy for me to do, but I won't because it's pointless, and I wouldn't want someone doing it to me when I'm talking about a series I do like.


Deconstruction as it is commonly defined as taking a troupe and seeing how would this trope play out with Real Life consequences applied to it, making the portaginist not have ideals like a typical hero of justice makes this fundamentally not a deconstruction.

(another definition of deconstruction is taking apart a trope or a narrative to expose the inherent contradiction in them, but chainsaw man doesn't do that as well)

You have to actually use the trope you are trying to deconstruct, making denji someone without ideals at the start makes it fundamentally impossible for chainsawman to be a deconstruction of this particular trope.

Baiscally you can't deconstruct a narrative if you are not using its most basic troupes.
Oh you said what I said but conveyed it way better. Kudos to you!
 
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Mankichi Togawa

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Some fun stuff. As you know, starting 2012 we have have almost always a major hit in the Winter batch (issues 8-15):
-2012: Haikyuu
-2013: World Trigger
-2015: Black Clover
-2016: Yuuna-san, Kimetsu no Yaiba
-2017: We Never Learn, Dr.Stone
-2018: Act-age, Jujutsu Kaisen
-2020: Mashle, maybe Undead Unluck
-2021: Nige Jozu, maybe Witch Watch

The only two years which ended without any hit were 2014 and 2019. The funniest thing is that the winter batches of these years have also another element in common: a Shibashi axed manga:
-2014: Illegal Rare (issue 11)
-2019: Kamio Yui (Issue 15)

Anyways, right now I have the sensation that a Winter batch is the one with more chances of dropping a hit in the roster.
 

Koni

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Shoseki - 04/09

01. Boku no Hero Academia #30
14. Dr. Stone #20
17. Black Clover #28
106. Dragon Quest Dai no Daibouken Shinsou Ayarokuban #17
111. Dragon Quest Dai no Daibouken Shinsou Ayarokuban #16
189. Sakamoto Days #01
338. Boku to Roboco #03
389. Shakunetsu no Niraikanai #03
409. Build King #01
Can we talk about how HeroAca has spent an entire week at #1 on Shoseki dailies?
 

Thundercat27

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You're assuming a whole lot from one person's single sentence reply. As I said you could see a series, get what it is, and still not like it or think it's pointless. Why assume someone only sees surface level storytelling just because they didn't like something?
His reply stated he saw CSM nothing more than a "nonsense manga" with "shocking scenes and limbs flying ".
I directly quote him, are you implying he got more out of CSM beside that?
 

4Eyes

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I didn't make any judgement of quality about CSM. The series can be all the deep things some people said but the way the author chose to tell these deep things will still be using some nonsense moments and gore scenes. And that's OK. I just don't like it, but there's people that like it.

Let's move on.
 

Mankichi Togawa

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They have published the Vati Lipepe oneshot in J+:

https://shonenjumpplus.com/episode/3269632237315739538

It was by far the best of the 3 dark mafia oneshots we had in Jump at beginning of this year, and is also a graduation work from Jump School. I can totally see this getting serialized this Fall or in 2022.
 
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