Finally the official is out, and I think I cracked the code (as simple as it is).
Luffy told Ace and Sabo something they laughed at him for, and in 1000 we get a reference to this again, though what exactly he said is still completely left to speculation. 1) it's not "to be pirate king"; that's only in service to 2) "to be the freest man on the seas". Both are unlikely because it's already what he's been saying over and over the whole series.
The official release just elucidated this for me: "That's at the end of my little brother's dream!"
After he makes himself "the freest man on the seas" by "becoming Pirate King", he's going to "make everyone in the world just as free". It makes sense Ace would say what he said to Yamato in immediate defense: it's an incredibly childish dream that would definitely elicit even more laughter than Luffy running around claiming to be the next Pirate King. Yet... every single thing he's ever done has been in the service of liberating just about anyone he comes across. Whether it's entire nations or islands, whether it's his nakama, or his enemies. Bellamy springs to mind as the ultimate example. In a lot of ways he liberated Katakuri from the things holding him back. He immediately liberated Yamato, barely knowing the dude.
I could list a million other examples, but I think the point is made. In the future I see a dueling flashback where we see both kid Luffy say it out loud to Ace and Sabo, and then young Roger saying it to his crew- bonus points if that's the last time he wears the Strawhat before giving it to Shanks.
My only issue with that is that luffy has never been out to get the world government. He has damaged the world government before but it was mostly because the world government crossed him in some manner or another. Luffy isn't actually a revolutionary or anything of the sort. To me it doesn't check out that he would secretly have been essentially a revolutionary from the start. I think the idea needs additional framing. something like "make all his friends as free as him". Accidental or incidental revolutionary just fits luffy better.
My only issue with that is that luffy has never been out to get the world government. He has damaged the world government before but it was mostly because the world government crossed him in some manner or another. Luffy isn't actually a revolutionary or anything of the sort. To me it doesn't check out that he would secretly have been essentially a revolutionary from the start. I think the idea needs additional framing. something like "make all his friends as free as him". Accidental or incidental revolutionary just fits luffy better.
Well... "Sogeking, shoot down that flag" entirely begs to differ. Dragon's motivation is the Celestial Dragons. Luffy directly declared war on the World Government at Water 7- and in a *very* rare moment of clarity, Luffy claimed he knew exactly what he was doing and exactly who Robin's enemies are. The Revolutionaries even explicitly stated that the World Government wasn't their target, it was the Celestial Dragons. Luffy and Dragon have declared war on different targets respectively.
I'm not saying he's a Revolutionary. There's a lot of overlap between Luffy's dream and Dragon's occupation, but they are NOT the same.
He's already been 'making his friends as free as him'. But he's also making a ton of not-explicitly-his-friends free everywhere he goes. Alabasta, Fishman Island, Skypiea, Dressrosa, not everyone there was a friend. Bellamy and Katakuri weren't friends. Hachi wasn't a friend. When I read Ace say, "That's at the END of my little brother's DREAM", the logical conclusion is that he wants everyone to be as free as he will become. It explains Ace's almost-out-of-character reaction to spilling the beans on something he himself found so embarrassing at first.
Well... "Sogeking, shoot down that flag" entirely begs to differ. Dragon's motivation is the Celestial Dragons. Luffy directly declared war on the World Government at Water 7- and in a *very* rare moment of clarity, Luffy claimed he knew exactly what he was doing and exactly who Robin's enemies are. The Revolutionaries even explicitly stated that the World Government wasn't their target, it was the Celestial Dragons. Luffy and Dragon have declared war on different targets respectively.
I'm not saying he's a Revolutionary. There's a lot of overlap between Luffy's dream and Dragon's occupation, but they are NOT the same.
He's already been 'making his friends as free as him'. But he's also making a ton of not-explicitly-his-friends free everywhere he goes. Alabasta, Fishman Island, Skypiea, Dressrosa, not everyone there was a friend. When I read "That's at the END of my little brother's DREAM", the logical conclusion is that he wants everyone to be as free as he will become.
I didn't mean revolutionary as in the group, I just meant in general. And even then, he did burn down the flag but since then he has rarely, if ever, actually targeted the world government. He fought the world government during the marineford arc but during that fight he was out to save ace, not to take out the marines. And when luffy speaks about enemies he wants to defeat his primary targets are almost invaribly the yonko and he rarely mentions the marines. At the most he has mentioned specific marines like admirals but rarely or never the world government.
I am not sure there is a substantial difference between declaring war on the tenryubito and declaring war on the world government.
Luffy will definitely face off with the marines in the future but the most likely scenario is that this will come as a result of the world government doing something to him (say, capturing sabo). But otherwise luffy has not even mentioned taking out the world government in the same way he has mentioned taking out the yonko.
It's the same exact way Luffy goes everywhere claiming he isn't a hero, but regularly does heroic things. His motivations are simple to the point of being atomic- he's not thinking about what other people think of him, or labelling his motivations in any specific way. He's not political like his dad, or compromising like his granddad.
It's not about mounting an assault on the body of the WG, he straight up declared war, beat the strongest at Water 7, and then walked away to do whatever the hell he wants to do because that's his entire ideal. Declaring war on the WG and walking off to do whatever are not mutually exclusive.
There is a huge difference between the two, otherwise it wouldn't be so explicitly mentioned in dialogue. Luffy despises Robin's enemy- the WG. Dragon despises the Celestial Dragons, but claims to not care about the WG. Whether you think so or not, Oda's making a clear distinction between father and son's targets/motivations.
Luffy rarely mentions taking out anyone except the big bad of the arc (direct threat to friends), or Emperors (direct competition to Pirate King). But "the END of his DREAM" should be something different. War on the WG isn't the point of this post, it's that he wants to make everyone as free as he will be. War on the WG is just one aspect of that.
It's the same exact way Luffy goes everywhere claiming he isn't a hero, but regularly does heroic things. His motivations are simple to the point of being atomic- he's not thinking about what other people think of him, or labelling his motivations in any specific way. He's not political like his dad, or compromising like his granddad.
It's not about mounting an assault on the body of the WG, he straight up declared war, beat the strongest at Water 7, and then walked away to do whatever the hell he wants to do because that's his entire ideal. Declaring war on the WG and walking off to do whatever are not mutually exclusive.
There is a huge difference between the two, otherwise it wouldn't be so explicitly mentioned in dialogue. Luffy despises Robin's enemy- the WG. Dragon despises the Celestial Dragons, but claims to not care about the WG. Whether you think so or not, Oda's making a clear distinction between father and son's targets/motivations.
Luffy rarely mentions taking out anyone except the big bad of the arc (direct threat to friends), or Emperors (direct competition to Pirate King). But "the END of his DREAM" should be something different. War on the WG isn't the point of this post, it's that he wants to make everyone as free as he will be. War on the WG is just one aspect of that.
Sure, but that is basically my point... motivations (and goals). luffy IS out to take out the yonko. He is extremely specific about that. Luffy picked a fight with kaido since punk hazard basically because law suggested it (in order to fuck with doflamingo). At the time kaido had done nothing to luffy. It's only after their adventures in punk hazard, dressrosa and finally in zou that luffy had an actual reason to target kaido. But he did in fact got in that fight for literally no reason other than kaido being a yonko at least at first. On the other hand, luffy has never picked a fight with the world government without reason. he doesn't walk up to marines and beats them up for the lolz. He hasn't stormed the new marineford. At the most, in spite of declaring war on the world government for very legit reasons, he only would engage with marines if they do something to him. otherwise the marines were even pretty important allies to luffy during the punk hazard and dressrosa arcs.
And within the context of luffy's dream... it's just not like luffy to want to make "everyone" as free as himself. Luffy isn't out looking for dictators to topple. He isn't out there looking for poor souls to help. Luffy is out there to have fun and make friends. And if someone fucks with his friends he will strike back full force. In the context you suggest it makes more sense that his dream is for his loved ones to be free rather than him being out to make everyone as free as himself.
My only issue with that is that luffy has never been out to get the world government. He has damaged the world government before but it was mostly because the world government crossed him in some manner or another. Luffy isn't actually a revolutionary or anything of the sort. To me it doesn't check out that he would secretly have been essentially a revolutionary from the start. I think the idea needs additional framing. something like "make all his friends as free as him". Accidental or incidental revolutionary just fits luffy better.
Luffy's a hero and a revolutionary ironically, that's one of the jokes in the series.
He's a Pirate who doesn't share his meat, but he's far from the typical Pirate, he's essentially a hero and revolutionary.
His resume says otherwise about his being a Pirate:
Saved Cocoyashi from dictatorship by Arlong.
Saved Drum Kingdom from Wapol's corruption.
Saved Alabasta from an orchestrated civil war by Crocodile.
Saved Dressrosa from being misled by a false King.
Saving Wano from the dictatorial rule of an Emperor.
He does all these things for the most simple reasons, friends gave me meat, you hurt them, now I will defeat you.
Sabo's been captured by the WG supposedly. Why do you think that is? It's more or less giving reason Luffy to take them down. He won't be willing to lose another brother, but his defeating the WG would give the world freedom in essence.
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As to what exactly Luffy said that Sabo and Ace laughed at (which Ace told Yamato not to laugh at and Roger also said..)
I think for context...
One Piece (Greatest Treasure in the World) and King of Pirates (Whomever finds One Piece) are both concepts that people regard to be fantasy. Only very few people believe these things are possibly achieved. The WG have put in placed a significant deterrent (criminal punishment for reading Poneglyphs) and made the idea of One Piece existing being false and untrue.
Even after One Piece was found... let's not forget that people still don't believe it exists. It took the death of Whitebeard to revitalise the idea it really exists... people think it's fantasy.
If One Piece is viewed as a fantasy, the idea of becoming the Pirate King must also be viewed as fantastical and unrealistic.
Like Bellamy is doing here, he's ridiculing Luffy for the idea Skypiea exists including that of One Piece. Kid also states that when he started sailing (around the same time as Ace), they got laughed at too for pursuing the fantasy that is One Piece.
While Roger did kick off the age of Pirates, people didn't believe it existed. Some did, many didn't. As time goes on and with it not being found, the less likely people are to believe it exists.
Whatever Luffy said... we know Ace and Sabo laughed which we can see when they tell each other their dreams during the flashback. Let's not forget... the idea of One Piece is regarded as a fantasy and something that doesn't exist.
Roger told Whitebeard his ambition. Whitebeard laughed calling his goal childish.
Finding the Greatest Treasure in the World.
Becoming the Greatest Pirate.
These are things that sound childish. It also seems impossible.
If Whitebeard 20+ years ago found this funny, so would literally anyone else. Here, we can see even Whitebeard didn't believe in any great treasure. This indicates that even in Roger's era... when he was looking for what is now called One Piece... people didn't think it existed.
Roger said the stories say a treasure is on the Final Island and the WG says do not go there... he says it makes these stories more believable. It means people generally didn't believe the story about this treasure.
He goes on to tell Whitebeard that by finding this treasure by going to this Island, he'll be the greatest pirate in name and by fact and known as... as what? It's not mentioned, but we can conclude it's Pirate King. A term which Whitebeard seems to call childish and laughs off. I'm guessing there was no measure by which a Pirate could be deemed the greatest bar none.
Again, bare in mind, before Roger and even PRESENTLY, the world still doesn't believe One Piece exists. Only some people do. To think something that's deemed fake by the world... be believed... is something the world would laugh at.
I'm not sure how common the term Pirate King was when Luffy was 8. Bare in mind, the idea of finding the greatest treasure in the world seemed like a fantasy. Ace had no idea whether One Piece existed when he was alive. All he knew was that Roger was the king of Pirates.
Luffy said he'll find the greatest treasure in the world just like Roger and become Pirate King... this idea was deemed childish.... and that's why Ace who blurted this out to Yamato didn't want her to laugh. This is what Roger said. To us the reader, it doesn't sound like a big deal, seems like something that is a norm in the society.
In One Piece, the idea is a big deal, it's no different to believing the most absurd conspiracy theory... Roger saying it was a big deal, people laughed at the idea. So, Luffy saying this is quite a big deal.
Even 10 years later from age 7... Luffy's saying he doesn't know if this treasure exists. No one knows it exists.
They're going through this journey with blind faith that it exists. They're dedicating their lives to pursuing something that might not even be real. They're essentially aiming to achieve a dream that's only possible in a dream. So, when someone claims to be aiming to find One Piece/Greatest Treasure, it seems laughable. Bellamy is actually being realistic for laughing at Luffy's dream, but we the reader have greater insight to not deem Luffy and similar people as foolish.
I think the thing is because we the readers are familiar with the term Pirate King and know One Piece exists, we think everyone else in the story does. The thing is... the characters do not know except Roger's crew. They're the only ones to find the One Piece and visit Laughtale.
Furthermore, it seems the reason why Roger named the Final Island "Laughtale" is because the journey he embarked on to find the greatest treasure was laughed at because people didn't believe it was true, but the fact it is true makes it ironically funny, thus the name "Laughtale". The journey and ambition to find One Piece is a journey that incurs the laughter of others as it's viewed as a joke or impossible or crazy, therefore, he named it Laughtale. Just my current impressions atm.
what about getting the treasure and distributing it to the world? doesn't sound childish though... I do think the freeing the world will be something that happens instead of Luffy actually wanting it.
what about getting the treasure and distributing it to the world? doesn't sound childish though... I do think the freeing the world will be something that happens instead of Luffy actually wanting it.
Luffy is in the camp where he isn't the hero, he wants to eat the meat. And he along with his crew did try to rob the skypeian folk blind. If luffy gets treasure he won't share it for the lolz.
Luffy is in the camp where he isn't the hero, he wants to eat the meat. And he along with his crew did try to rob the skypeian folk blind. If luffy gets treasure he won't share it for the lolz.
i just thought that once he has collected the treasure, he'll see no point to have it. Nami wont oblige of course, lol.... yea, not too sure about it though, you have a fair point.
i just thought that once he has collected the treasure, he'll see no point to have it. Nami wont oblige of course, lol.... yea, not too sure about it though, you have a fair point.
Luffy's friends definitely know what luffy is about. Luffy will want to have the treasure if only because that's something a pirate would do. He'd need a specific reason to actually leave or give away the treasure.
