Discussion Jujutsu Kaisen Power Level Thread

[Equaling Heaven]

I don't see how Toji is overhyped when he handled a spirit that was giving problem to a team of powerful sorceres, but every is entitled to their own opinions.

 

[Convergent]

What do you mean one tecnique?
Your speed argument falls short when you realize that he could fight Naobito who is faster than Jogo, Megumi himself compared Toji's speed to a nerfed 3 finger Sukuna whilst Jogo was labeled as 8 fingers worth, with Playful Cloud he may be equal to them.

Toji has no way to avoid that sure hit as the Shikigami, he doesn't have simple domain or falling blossom, he can't dodge an endless amount of Shikigami that appear instantly, Naobito who is faster than Toji could only handle 70% of Dagon's power and he has the advantage of having falling blossom.
Dagon only has to keep his distance, spam the endless Shikigami that appear AS THEY HIT and it's over.

All that said without a Domain Toji stomps Dagon, that is how much of a difference a DE makes imo.

Playful Cloud or Inverted Spear of Heaven + Prep and Toji is a whole different monster, but I agree with you.

I don't see how Toji is overhyped when he handled a spirit that was giving problem to a team of powerful sorceres, but every is entitled to their own opinions.

Not that he isn’t powerful, he is. He’s a superhuman and the peak of human power. I just find some views on him a bit exaggerated. We obviously don’t interact with the same people so the general consensus varies. As for Dagon, he didn’t have his guaranteed hit and Naobito stepped in. I think if Dagon was with Toji alone in his DE with his entire repertoire—he beats him.

Toji with his tools and prep is a different monster entirely but I do believe that he loses to the disaster curses (maybe not Hanami) and scales well below current Gojo and Getou/Kenjaku. I also think he loses to General Mahoraga & Sukuna. To each their own though.

 

[Equaling Heaven]

What do you mean one tecnique?
Your speed argument falls short when you realize that he could fight Naobito who is faster than Jogo, Megumi himself compared Toji's speed to a nerfed 3 finger Sukuna whilst Jogo was labeled as 8 fingers worth, with Playful Cloud he may be equal to them.

Toji has no way to avoid that sure hit as the Shikigami, he doesn't have simple domain or falling blossom, he can't dodge an endless amount of Shikigami that appear instantly, Naobito who is faster than Toji could only handle 70% of Dagon's power and he has the advantage of having falling blossom.
Dagon only has to keep his distance, spam the endless Shikigami that appear AS THEY HIT and it's over.

All that said without a Domain Toji stomps Dagon, that is how much of a difference a DE makes imo.

Naobito faster than Jogo? Chapter 111, pag. 14 will prove that you're wrong. The only reason he moved to Jogo's weak spot was because he used his technique to move in the frames of a second. Jogo easily reacted in time to blast Naobito and kill him.

If Maki can tank sure hits from the shikigamis so does Toji who have the same restriction as hers but by having no cursed energy at all his body received even higher superhuman attributes. He clearly moved so fast that they couldn't stop him from taking Megumi away.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 16, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 16, 2021 ---

Playful Cloud or Inverted Spear of Heaven + Prep and Toji is a whole different monster, but I agree with you.


Not that he isn’t powerful, he is. He’s a superhuman and the peak of human power. I just find some views on him a bit exaggerated. We obviously don’t interact with the same people so the general consensus varies. As for Dagon, he didn’t have his guaranteed hit and Naobito stepped in. I think if Dagon was with Toji alone in his DE with his entire repertoire—he beats him.

Toji with his tools and prep is a different monster entirely but I do believe that he loses to the disaster curses (maybe not Hanami) and scales well below current Gojo and Getou/Kenjaku. I also think he loses to General Mahoraga & Sukuna. To each their own though.

The argument I used above of Maki tanking the sure hit shikigamis and staying alive also applies to Toji. Using the chain and the spear, and his superior speed compared to Dagon's would grant him a sure win in that situation. He's only above Hanami and Dagon, that's for sure.

He would be obliterated if he faced Mahoraga, current Sukuna (he have more than 15 fingers), Gojo, Kengaku. That's for sure.

 

[Convergent]

Naobito faster than Jogo? Chapter 111, pag. 14 will prove that you're wrong. The only reason he moved to Jogo's weak spot was because he used his technique to move in the frames of a second. Jogo easily reacted in time to blast Naobito and kill him.

If Maki can tank sure hits from the shikigamis so does Toji who have the same restriction as hers but by having no cursed energy at all his body received even higher superhuman attributes. He clearly moved so fast that they couldn't stop him from taking Megumi away.

I believe he was referencing Naobito with both arms. As far as Maki goes: Dagon didn’t target her at all and she was only hit with a Shikigami twice. After that, Maki pointed out that Dagon should’ve one-hit KO’ed her if she was ‘weak’ and Dagon was about to go serious on her (and if we’re being honest - would have killed her) but Fushiguro intervened.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 16, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 16, 2021 ---

Naobito faster than Jogo? Chapter 111, pag. 14 will prove that you're wrong. The only reason he moved to Jogo's weak spot was because he used his technique to move in the frames of a second. Jogo easily reacted in time to blast Naobito and kill him.

If Maki can tank sure hits from the shikigamis so does Toji who have the same restriction as hers but by having no cursed energy at all his body received even higher superhuman attributes. He clearly moved so fast that they couldn't stop him from taking Megumi away.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 16, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 16, 2021 ---

The argument I used above of Maki tanking the sure hit shikigamis and staying alive also applies to Toji. Using the chain and the spear, and his superior speed compared to Dagon's would grant him a sure win in that situation. He's only above Hanami and Dagon, that's for sure.

He would be obliterated if he faced Mahoraga, current Sukuna (he have more than 15 fingers), Gojo, Kengaku. That's for sure.

The fact that he would be targeting 100% of his Shikigami on Toji + all his other abilities and the mobility in the air—I still think Dagon can edge it, but you make a fair point. What I originally meant by overrated is that I saw many people believe Toji is still T3 strongest and claim some other ridiculous stuff which is rooted in him beating a young Gojo and Geto with Prep after tiring Gojo out. I agree with you otherwise.

 

[Equaling Heaven]

I believe he was referencing Naobito with both arms. As far as Maki goes: Dagon didn’t target her at all and she was only hit with a Shikigami twice. After that, Maki pointed out that Dagon should’ve one-hit KO’ed her if she was ‘weak’ and Dagon was about to go serious on her (and if we’re being honest - would have killed her) but Fushiguro intervened.

Yeah, the page make it very clear that Naobito is handicaped.

Back on Dagon. He would understimate Toji in the same way he did with Maki because Dagon is arrogant and measure levels based on cursed energy. Toji has zero. He even asks himself how tf he's losing to a 'energyless' human.
I don't know if some shikigamis would kill her that easily when she survived close-range blast from Jogo.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 16, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 16, 2021 ---

I believe he was referencing Naobito with both arms. As far as Maki goes: Dagon didn’t target her at all and she was only hit with a Shikigami twice. After that, Maki pointed out that Dagon should’ve one-hit KO’ed her if she was ‘weak’ and Dagon was about to go serious on her (and if we’re being honest - would have killed her) but Fushiguro intervened.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 16, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 16, 2021 ---

The fact that he would be targeting 100% of his Shikigami on Toji + all his other abilities and the mobility in the air—I still think Dagon can edge it, but you make a fair point. What I originally meant by overrated is that I saw many people believe Toji is still T3 strongest and claim some other ridiculous stuff which is rooted in him beating a young Gojo and Geto with Prep after tiring Gojo out. I agree with you otherwise.

Yeah, he only won against young gojo. Current threats would slap him ez.

 

[Convergent]

Yeah, the page make it very clear that Naobito is handicaped.

Back on Dagon. He would understimate Toji in the same way he did with Maki because Dagon is arrogant and measure levels based on cursed energy. Toji has zero. He even asks himself how tf the's losing to a 'energyless' human.
I don't know if some shikigamis would kill her that easily when she survived close-range blast from Jogo.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 16, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 16, 2021 ---

Yeah, he only won against young gojo. Current threats would slap him ez.

Casual Jogo, to be fair, but yeah. I see where you’re coming from. I also think that Death Swarm would’ve killed her as that’s what he was planning to use. I agree on Dagon’s arrogance as well.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Jogo is confirmed as being the Fastest and Strongest of the Disaster Curses.

He is a little more fragile then Hanami at least. As it was stated in an author note, that the four in a row Black Flash Barrage Yuji hit Hanami with would have killed Jogo. But said author's note also stated that Jogo would not have even gotten touched by it, because of his vastly superior speed and reflexes.

Hanami and Dagon are apparently around the same level. With Hanami having superior durability, but not quite as much offensive power without life to drain. However Hanami never showed off their domain expansion, which would pretty much give Hanami a win against any sorcerer barring Gojo, and maybe Yuta.

Mahito is a dangerous matchup for pretty much anyone, but he lacks the pure power and sheer cursed energy of the other Disaster Curses. Hanami and Jogo if they fought him would probably defeat him. As their domains would be superior, and they both know Domain Amplification, either of which could easily allow them a victory against Mahito. Jogo in particular is easily twice or three times as strong as Mahito at least.

Choso is far below all of them. He's not a particularly strong Special Grade. He's maybe a bit below the 2 fingers level.

 

[Will19]

Playful Cloud or Inverted Spear of Heaven + Prep and Toji is a whole different monster, but I agree with you.

Nearly anyone with prep time is a whole different monster, against Gojo he didn't have only prep time but also a sneak attack, Toji isn't some unmatched genius.

The main argument about him losing is that he can't defend against a DE, look at what happened to Naobito with Falling Blossom, I feel like people undestate how important an Anti DE tecnique is. Even with that he couldn't defend against 70% of Dagon, how do you expect Toji to defend against that, it isn't only that he can't defend but the fact that it's an infinite number of Shikigami, let alone defend he can't even evade them.

Toji is the strongest non Special Grade with Playful Cloud but Domains are too much hax for him.

 

[Convergent]

Nearly anyone with prep time is a whole different monster, against Gojo he didn't have only prep time but also a sneak attack, Toji isn't some unmatched genius.

The main argument about him losing is that he can't defend against a DE, look at what happened to Naobito with Falling Blossom, I feel like people undestate how important an Anti DE tecnique is. Even with that he couldn't defend against 70% of Dagon, how do you expect Toji to defend against that, it isn't only that he can't defend but the fact that it's an infinite number of Shikigami, let alone defend he can't even evade them.

Toji is the strongest non Special Grade with Playful Cloud but Domains are too much hax for him.

Pretty sure that’s the consensus everyone has come to, lol. I agree with you.

 

[Equaling Heaven]

Dagon is arrogant. He only used his DE when Naobito was winning. Toji having no cursed energy would have the upper hand, just like he had against Satoru. No character ever used their DE as a first move because of how exhaustive it is. Spear would simply destroy Dagon before he could even react. There's no discussion here, he would've simply win against Dagon because every factor in this fight favors him.

If Naobito shit his pants when he sees Toji and lied about his true identity, talking him down is simply out of question.
And if you keep ignoring the fact that Maki could tank his blows plus shikigami attack you're simply favoring Dagon because yes.
Never have I stated that Toji is some untouchable genius (the fact that he's dead just prove he isn't lol), but he's above the character he's matched/ranked against.

 

[Will19]

Dagon is arrogant. He only used his DE when Naobito was winning. Toji having no cursed energy would have the upper hand, just like he had against Satoru. No character ever used their DE as a first move because of how exhaustive it is. Spear would simply destroy Dagon before he could even react. There's no discussion here, he would've simply win against Dagon because every factor in this fight favors him.

If Naobito shit his pants when he sees Toji and lied about his true identity, talking him down is simply out of question.
And if you keep ignoring the fact that Maki could tank his blows plus shikigami attack you're simply favoring Dagon because yes.
Never have I stated that Toji is some untouchable genius (the fact that he's dead just prove he isn't lol), but he's above the character he's matched/ranked against.

You contradict yourself claiming that he didn't use his Domain because of his arrogance whilst at the same time claiming he didn't use it because it's too exhaustive, a DE is a last resort as it uses too much CE, it's generally used when you are losing.
He also activated his Domain right in front of Naobito someone that is faster than Toji with Spear of Heaven and Naobito's intention was to beat him before he could use his tecnique.
You also seem to forget that Dagon is said to have very high hp and the spear cancels tecniques, it doesn't increase the damage like Playful Cloud.

Naobito also didn't shit his pants when Jogo appeared so by your logic Toji>Jogo.
She tanked TWO Shikigami out of the endless ones.
The simple fact that Dagon had the chance to flee but couldn't because of Naobito even while the sure hit was off makes me covinced that uder a fair fight Dagon would beat Toji, ffs he couldn't finish him fast enough so he couldn't react with Playful Cloud, what makes you think he can do it with the Spear.

 

[Equaling Heaven]

I'm not contradicting myself. Dagon only used his DE when he saw he couldn't win otherwise.

Naobito isn't faster than Toji because you want him to be. He wasn't aware of Toji grabbing Megumi and taking him away. Plus the spear would simply null Dagon's cursed technique/energy just like it did in past occasion when it was used.

Naobito also didn't shit his pants when Jogo appeared so by your logic Toji>Jogo. (...)

Except he did? And I can prove.

Spoiler: local fast old man shit his pants again

You do you in the end. I have enough proof that Toji is above Dagon.

 

[Will19]

I'm not contradicting myself. Dagon only used his DE when he saw he couldn't win otherwise.

Naobito isn't faster than Toji because you want him to be. He wasn't aware of Toji grabbing Megumi and taking him away. Plus the spear would simply null Dagon's cursed technique/energy just like it did in past occasion when it was used.




Except he did? And I can prove.

Spoiler: local fast old man shit his pants again

You do you in the end. I have enough proof that Toji is above Dagon.

Toji was compared to 3 finger nerfed Sukuna speed wise smh, Nobito is faster than someone 8 fingers worth that specializes in speed.

Wtf how can you compare that to him shaking when seeing Toji.
The Spear cancels Tecniques not cursed energy.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Wtf how can you compare that to him shaking when seeing Toji.
The Spear cancels Tecniques not cursed energy.

Naobito was freaked out when Toji appeared, because Toji is supposed to be dead. He also did not lie to Megumi and Maki about Toji. He was accurate.

The spear is more an anti sorcerer weapon then Curse, Curses can easily heal from damage dealt to them. Something like Playful Cloud that does more damage the more powerful the User is much better against a more powerful Curse.

Fighting the disaster Curses Toji with Inverted Spear would likely do well against all but Jogo. But then die once they activated Domain Expansion.

Toji with Playful Cloud likewise would die quickly to Jogo. The other Disaster Curses would get hit once then probably use Domain to kill the threat. Minus Mahito who would not actually take damage from playful Cloud.

 

[Static]

Toji was compared to 3 finger nerfed Sukuna speed wise smh, Nobito is faster than someone 8 fingers worth that specializes in speed.

Wtf how can you compare that to him shaking when seeing Toji.
The Spear cancels Tecniques not cursed energy.

He wasn't compared to 3 finger Sukuna. Megumi said he was faster than 3 fingered Sukuma. Also, cursed energy isn't necessarily indicative of physical stats or even overall strength. Same 3 fingered Sukuna yeeted Mahito out of his Domain Expansion despite having lesser Cursed Energy.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

He wasn't compared to 3 finger Sukuna. Megumi said he was faster than 3 fingered Sukuma. Also, cursed energy isn't necessarily indicative of physical stats or even overall strength. Same 3 fingered Sukuna yeeted Mahito out of his Domain Expansion despite having lesser Cursed Energy.

Mahito was inferior to 3 Finger Sukuna in both power and Curse Energy. Mahito while having the most potential is the youngest and weakest disaster Curse at the start.

Jogo is the only Curse outright stated to be Stronger then 3 finger Sukuna.

 

[Static]

So with the recent chapters, where would you guys put characters like Maki, Naoya, Naobito etc? And would Toji change positions considering how much references he's getting?

 

[Equaling Heaven]

My condolences for those who played down Toji.

 

[Static]

My condolences for those who played down Toji.

Where exactly do you rank him? IMO he could win against characters like Hanami and Dagon but below Jogo or Mahito. That said, domain expansion is still a huge counter for people like Toji or Maki.

Also, I don't think anybody has ranked Mahoraga or Kenjaku here yet. IMO, both of them sit comfortably at third / fourth places, right below Gojo and Sukuna.

 

[Equaling Heaven]

Where exactly do you rank him? IMO he could win against characters like Hanami and Dagon but below Jogo or Mahito. That said, domain expansion is still a huge counter for people like Toji or Maki.

Also, I don't think anybody has ranked Mahoraga or Kenjaku here yet. IMO, both of them sit comfortably at third / fourth places, right below Gojo and Sukuna.

I did mentioned Mahogara in one of these threads if I'm not mistaken, but not Kenjaku yet. Mahogara is someone who made Sukuna fight for real, he's leagues above anyone around except for Satoru (would alternate between forces of repel and atract to abuse of his adaptation) and pseudo-Geto (a lot of spirits at his disposal, including the top tier Mahito).

And my thoughts on Toji are the same as yours. That's why I gave my condolences since a lot of people were bold enough to rank him below Dagon and Hanami.